Viral Facebook video speaking out about domestic violence (Read mod note in the OP)

brooke 2

Dogowner55 wrote: »

That could be he puch back after she pushed him, to his mother that would be wrong but somewhat justified. Hitting a person in the face without provocation would be very wrong to most people.

Or she could have been condoning his hitting his partner on the face.

jimdublin15

Originally Posted by jimdublin15
Could be anything, and maybe she is who knows.
This is why the cops should be investigating the matter and not the media/public.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The thing is though, that the authorities didn't consider the matter serious enough to warrant an investigation, and in that case what would you expect a person should do - go home and put up with it and don't bring shame upon herself and her family?

Or do whatever the hell she could do that was within what little power she had to protect herself and her family? Perhaps more cases highlighted like this in the media will actually make the authorities get their act together when there are real people behind the statistics.

Again ill repeat:

Could be anything, and maybe she is who knows.
This is why the cops should be investigating the matter and not the media/public.

As for the system as said, I know it I've been on the receiving end of the abuse and been in the system dealing with it. I know it lacks response, but it was reported on Friday, the cops did not dismiss the issue they however did not take him out and have him shot either.

The system is broken, this needs to be addressed no denying that, but we don't know what happened we don't know what was said, we don't know what is being done and we don't have any facts. It's that simple.

arayess

she has bad luck with men , the poor girl..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/brave-emma-murphy-previously-harassed-by-lovehate-actor-31361029.html

eviltwin

Going to the gardai everytime something happens can be counterproductive. You soon get a name for being a time waster.

One eyed Jack

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yeah same reasoning vigilantes use.

It's not the same reasoning vigilantes use, it's asking a legitimate question - what do you expect someone who is a victim of domestic violence* to do, when the authorities don't take their complaint seriously?

Isn't it time then the system was examined, rather than the victims?

*I'm not even talking about just the woman in this particular case, but any woman who is the victim of domestic violence.

4friggA

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Again ill repeat:

Could be anything, and maybe she is who knows.
This is why the cops should be investigating the matter and not the media/public.

As for the system as said, I know it I've been on the receiving end of the abuse and been in the system dealing with it. I know it lacks response, but it was reported on Friday, the cops did not dismiss the issue they however did not take him out and have him shot either.

The system is broken, this needs to be addressed no denying that, but we don't know what happened we don't know what was said, we don't know what is being done and we don't have any facts. It's that simple.

Apparently the gardai have now opened an investigation.

jimdublin15

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's not the same reasoning vigilantes use, it's asking a legitimate question - what do you expect someone who is a victim of domestic violence* to do, when the authorities don't take their complaint seriously?

Isn't it time then the system was examined, rather than the victims?

*I'm not even talking about just the woman in this particular case, but any woman who is the victim of domestic violence.

Small correction to your post:

*I'm not even talking about just the woman in this particular case, but any woman person who is the victim of domestic violence

jimdublin15

4friggA wrote: »

Apparently the gardai have now opened an investigation.

It would take a few days in cases like this (That's my experience at least)

eviltwin

zeffabelli wrote: »

Thanks for the patronising response. You have no idea what I have seen, whom I've talked to or roads I've walked.
Do you know victims often attack the police when they come? Or how often they arrest the wrong person? How often they can't tell the defensive from offensive wounds? Or how frequent false accusations are made?

Apologies if you think I was being patronising, I wasn't intending to be. I don't deny gardai have a really difficult job to do and it can be impossible to tell what is going on, that is the nature of domestic abuse. I think they do they best they can in a situation where they don't have a lot of options. They can only do what the law allows them to do. My point is that for the victim that leaves them exposed and vulnerable and the posters here asking why she didn't just go through official channels are vastly overestimating how effective those channels are and what they can do.

Pumpkinseeds

LexieOnRale wrote: »

No proof?? Have you seen her face?
I suppose there comes a time when enough is enough. How is what she done any different to someone getting mugged or their phone snatched and going online with a discription of who done it (that goggles for example! No proof of him robbing phones though there's a Facebook set up in his honour)
His career is ruined? Shoulda thought about that before he raised his hand to her. What about her career? What's she to do when she has a black eye? Call into work sick until it dies down because she should be so ashamed and try protect a man so his reputation isn't ruined?? Victim blaming at its finest

A black eye and an accusation are not proof. Last year I had to go into hospital on a regular basis for drug infusions. That meant each infusion was put through a drip in my arm. I have bad veins and they'd often have to try different sites on both arms until they found a good vein. Being Summer time I was wearing short sleeved clothing and of course the bruises started the rumour mill.

Two of the rumours I heard where that (a) my husband was beating me up and (2) I was a drug addict. Rumours started by people who'd never even spoken to me or my husband but just chose to start nasty gossip and what's worse gullible fcukwits who didn't know us either chose to believe that sh*t and probably just enjoyed a bit of vicious gossip. If I'd been in a bad relationship I could have used that gossip to make false accusations against my husband. I ended up having to wear long sleeves just to try to avoid the vicious bitching of pathetic women with empty lives.

These sorts of threads seem to have a hard core of man hating women, I don't know some of you seem to have serious daddy issues, the rest don't seem to believe that a woman is capable of lying or taking any kind of responsibility for anything. It baffles me that people are so adamant that a complete stranger whose husband cheated on her could possibly be making stuff up out of malice or spite. You just assume it's true, for no reason other than a black eye that she may not have received from her husband. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

orubiru

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The thing is though, that the authorities didn't consider the matter serious enough to warrant an investigation, and in that case what would you expect a person should do - go home and put up with it and don't bring shame upon herself and her family?

Or do whatever the hell she could do that was within what little power she had to protect herself and her family? Perhaps more cases highlighted like this in the media will actually make the authorities get their act together when there are real people behind the statistics.

I find myself agreeing with you to an extent. It's a terrible thing when a victim goes to the authorities and they do not get justice.

On the other hand, when the victim then goes out seeking their own justice how can we regulate that?

If the victim achieves their goal but the punishment doesn't fit the crime then we've put ourselves in the position where the original criminal is now a victim because we supported and allowed the original victim to be too heavy handed.

Lets say this man takes a severe beating as a result of her Facebook video? Could she then be charged for inciting violence against him?

Boring username

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's because it's not treated as a serious issue that the proper channels aren't as effective as they could be. It's because the issue is largely swept under the carpet as victims of domestic violence are afraid to rock the boat, they're afraid they won't be taken seriously, they're afraid they'll be dismissed as simply being vindictive or "takes two to tango".

If you're afraid of society coming apart at the seams because more and more people are speaking out about the issue of domestic violence and want the authorities to start taking it seriously, then society was hardly ideal in the first place, was it?

It's also worth pointing out that in certain cultures it is openly tolerated, if not encouraged, to beat a woman.

But as mods have pointed out, anyone who fcuking DARES to mention this very reasonable and logical point will be instantly banned under the comical banner of 'racism'.

So that's another element in how wife beaters/domestic abusers get away with it-when good people stand by and make excuses for whatever reason.

Mardy Bum

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You just assume it's true, for no reason other than a black eye that she may not have received from her husband. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You seem to be the one with a chip on your shoulder because of a previous experience. Objectively looking at that video one would have to have lack empathy to not see that she was genuine. There may be more information which we were not privy to but the attack on this woman by other women is something to behold.

One eyed Jack

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Originally Posted by jimdublin15
Could be anything, and maybe she is who knows.
This is why the cops should be investigating the matter and not the media/public.




Again ill repeat:

Could be anything, and maybe she is who knows.
This is why the cops should be investigating the matter and not the media/public.

As for the system as said, I know it I've been on the receiving end of the abuse and been in the system dealing with it. I know it lacks response, but it was reported on Friday, the cops did not dismiss the issue they however did not take him out and have him shot either.

The system is broken, this needs to be addressed no denying that, but we don't know what happened we don't know what was said, we don't know what is being done and we don't have any facts. It's that simple.

But in just the same way as the vast majority of people know already that domestic violence is socially unacceptable, there are a minority of people in society who don't care about what is or isn't socially acceptable.

In the same way, there are going to be people who have lost faith in a system that is supposed to protect them, but yet it doesn't, and if anything it seems to protect their abusers and makes it harder for victims to come forward. I think we've had that sort of bureaucracy protect abusers long enough, and social media cuts through all that red tape and highlights an issue in the public consciousness that makes it much harder to ignore.

Would we even be having this conversation if it had not been for this woman's courage? I wouldn't have known you had experienced domestic violence, nobody would have known except yourself and the perpetrator. Now thanks to social media, domestic violence isn't the taboo curtain twitchy subject we could comfortably ignore in the past once we didn't have to go through it ourselves.

4friggA

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I don't know some of you seem to have serious daddy issues

What on earth is the relevance of this line? What have "daddy issues" got to do with taking this woman's account of things as being truthful?

Generic Dreadhead

eviltwin wrote: »

Going to the gardai everytime something happens can be counterproductive. You soon get a name for being a time waster.

Ummmmm. What?

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Small correction to your post:

*I'm not even talking about just the woman in this particular case, but any woman person who is the victim of domestic violence

Oh Bravo on being the 40th person to point this same laboured point out :rolleyes:

Pumpkinseeds

4friggA wrote: »

What on earth is the relevance of this line? What have "daddy issues" got to do with taking this woman's account of things as being truthful?

Pretty self-explanatory.

Grab All Association

He's innocent until proven guilty by the state in court

Be very careful what you post.

zeffabelli

eviltwin wrote: »

Apologies if you think I was being patronising, I wasn't intending to be. I don't deny gardai have a really difficult job to do and it can be impossible to tell what is going on, that is the nature of domestic abuse. I think they do they best they can in a situation where they don't have a lot of options. They can only do what the law allows them to do. My point is that for the victim that leaves them exposed and vulnerable and the posters here asking why she didn't just go through official channels are vastly overestimating how effective those channels are and what they can do.

Fair enough. The existing channels may be flawed, but this is not the right way. A public shaming only creates another victim, he will likely need protection himself now and this has provoked an emotional, reactive public response without reason or perspective.

I am not going to rush to condemnation when we don't know.

The guards see so much violence that one night on OConnel street on Friday can make some mild bruising look inconsequential and down the list of priorities.

My brother once got a terrible black eye from when a kid gave him a piggy back and she tripped on her shoe lace and he fell forward onto the ground. I also got some bruising when a football hit me in the face.

You should have seen the pitying looks I got after oral surgery. It was sickening... It was just assumed I was being punched around...

People jump to wild conclusions.

Plus this is just a video.... It's a representation....no one here has actually seen her. No medical evidence, no witness, very easy to cast doubt,

eviltwin

Cormac... wrote: »

Ummmmm. What?

If you pick up the phone everytime your partner does something aggressive or threatening they will soon get sick of you. Think about it. Your partner grabs you and holds a knife to your throat threatening to kill you, you believe him or her and you call gardai...you have no proof, no wounds, its your word against your partners, the gardai go away and nothing has changed, the next time it happens and you call they come around and go away again and you soon get the reputation for being that person who calls up everytime you get into a fight with your loved one. Most victims are well used to that and therefore don't call, they know they won't get anywhere.

NachoBusiness

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Are they really though?

In 1971, the first shelter for battered women in the UK (Refuge) was founded by Erin Pizzey. Over the next decade or so she began to notice that domestic violence was very much reciprocal and that most of the women ending up in the shelter were equally as violent as men. Eventually she co-researched a study of why violent people treat each other the way they do (one of the only studies of it's kind, to this day.. given that's not very politically correct to ask why this form of violence occurs) and that research led to her writing a book in the early 80's entitled 'Prone to Violence'. Militant Feminists went nuts, protested her book signings, harassed her constantly and she ended up having to leave the country for her own safety, eventually taking up work in woman's refuge in New Mexico.

Pumpkinseeds

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You seem to be the one with a chip on your shoulder because of a previous experience. Objectively looking at that video one would have to have lack empathy to not see that she was genuine. There may be more information which we were not privy to but the attack on this woman by other women is something to behold.

What utter horsesh*t. But that's the kind of crazy sh*t you've posted all the way through this thread. I don't take the word of a stranger looking for sympathy on Facebook and I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder. If I were to use your batsh*t crazy logic I could argue that accepting her word as gospel makes you and everyone else who doesn't know her yet believes everything she says as being the ones with chips on their shoulder.

'Attacks on her by other women' Suggesting that it's possible that she might not be telling the truth and and saying that exposing her children to the 3 ring circus of media attention is a bad thing merits an attack on her, Jaysus.:D

eviltwin

zeffabelli wrote: »

Fair enough. The existing channels may be flawed, but this is not the right way. A public shaming only creates another victim, he will likely need protection himself now and this has provoked an emotional, reactive public response without reason or perspective.

I am not going to rush to condemnation when we don't know.

The guards see so much violence that one night on OConnel street on Friday can make some mild bruising look inconsequential and down the list of priorities.

My brother once got a terrible black eye from when a kid gave him a piggy back and she tripped on her shoe lace and he fell forward onto the ground. I also got some bruising when a football hit me in the face.

You should have seen the pitying looks I got after oral surgery. It was sickening... It was just assumed I was being punched around...

People jump to wild conclusions.

Plus this is just a video.... It's a representation....no one here has actually seen her. No medical evidence, no witness, very easy to cast doubt,

I completely agree, I think she was wrong to do this but I can also understand how someone who feels the system has failed them would feel pushed into doing something drastic. It doesn't do anything to address the problems for every other victim though.

jimdublin15

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But in just the same way as the vast majority of people know already that domestic violence is socially unacceptable, there are a minority of people in society who don't care about what is or isn't socially acceptable.

In the same way, there are going to be people who have lost faith in a system that is supposed to protect them, but yet it doesn't, and if anything it seems to protect their abusers and makes it harder for victims to come forward. I think we've had that sort of bureaucracy protect abusers long enough, and social media cuts through all that red tape and highlights an issue in the public consciousness that makes it much harder to ignore.

Would we even be having this conversation if it had not been for this woman's courage? I wouldn't have known you had experienced domestic violence, nobody would have known except yourself and the perpetrator. Now thanks to social media, domestic violence isn't the taboo curtain twitchy subject we could comfortably ignore in the past once we didn't have to go through it ourselves.

Again my point is it should be investigated, and yes the system is broken. (We are in agreement on that point)

But instant justice and to bypass law and order to punish those presumed guilty ? No. Can't agree with that and won't. That is just a form of the ends justifies the means argument. We can't live like that.

As for the overall issue were talking about 26 % of men and 29 % of women and they deserve more support than a media frenzy and a few facebook posts that will fizz out after a few days /weeks. This is over a quarter of the population and not only them but the children and family around them that are affected. I love all the (Not directed at you) keyboard hero's coming out on this one calling for support and what should be done. You such a shame as most of them should be more focused on the topic before the frenzy and in real life not behind the keyboard.

Boring username

Chris___ wrote: »

He's innocent until proven guilty by the state in court

Be very careful what you post.

A lot of people are being very foolish in what they are posting here, and could be leaving themselves wide open to legal action. I'm surprised boards has left this thread open as Gardai are currently investigating the assault. I would say his legal team could make a very convincing case that the case has been prejudiced by the widespread attention the video has attracted.

jimdublin15

Cormac... wrote: »

Ummmmm. What?



Oh Bravo on being the 40th person to point this same laboured point out :rolleyes:

Bravo on dismissing it. :rolleyes:

Generic Dreadhead

eviltwin wrote: »

If you pick up the phone everytime your partner does something aggressive or threatening they will soon get sick of you. Think about it. Your partner grabs you and holds a knife to your throat threatening to kill you, you believe him or her and you call gardai...you have no proof, no wounds, its your word against your partners, the gardai go away and nothing has changed, the next time it happens and you call they come around and go away again and you soon get the reputation for being that person who calls up everytime you get into a fight with your loved one. Most victims are well used to that and therefore don't call, they know they won't get anywhere.

You can dress it up anyway you want, but your post is just the phrase "Don't Bother" Extrapolated out into a lot of words, and fundamentally that is something I cannot agree with.

That's enabling someone to continue in a fashion that is socially, culturally and legally abhorrent.

People that have this "Oh don't speak up, you'll only be bothering them, pipe down dear, he's only cross, he won't actually kill you" are one of the worst blights on this country and it's lay-down-and-take it culture.

Absolute rubbish

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Bravo on dismissing it. :rolleyes:

How am I dismissing it? There's plenty of white knighting going on all over AH, not just here, without me needing to state the obvious (and oft repeated) points like

"Domestic Violence is wrong against both men and women"
"Hitting people is wrong"

There ya go, there's the token lip service.
I was raised to know these things, doesn't mean I need to post them every single chance.

I know how to find the length of the side of an right-angled triangle too but I don't bring that up every time I eat Tortilla chips

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

Sheer nonsense.

Neither assault law nor the law on domestic violence contains any "first beating free" provision.

Let's not make up stuff as we go along. You assert it, you check the facts, but I can assure you you are wasting your time because as a matter of common sense it is just nonsense.



That's precisely the point I made, that a Court Order does not purport to physically restrain the respondent.

Your suggestion that people who get done for assault "get locked up for a year or two" is the third piece of utter utter nonsense you have spouted. The vast majority of assault convictions do not result in anything near a prison sentence.

First beating is not free. First time a safety order is broken, I was told by the gardai that they'll be warned on the first time (so they're to keep away from the house and they show up on your door step, the first time this happens they aren't arrested.) I'll take a guards word for that over someone on the Internet.

If you seriously assault someone, they make a statement and press charges, you are looking at being locked up. I'm not talking about taking a drunken swing at a person on a Saturday night outside supermacs, I mean a proper full on assault, where you cause significant injury to another person, it's GBH and the defendant is looking at prison time.

orubiru

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You seem to be the one with a chip on your shoulder because of a previous experience. Objectively looking at that video one would have to have lack empathy to not see that she was genuine. There may be more information which we were not privy to but the attack on this woman by other women is something to behold.

Are we just expected to believe the accusations even though they are presented to us out of context?

I don't think anyone is denying that she has been assaulted here. However, I don't think too many of us are fully aware of the circumstances of the assault.

While we can all agree that no person should ever be assaulted or be the victim of violence under any circumstances, reality has a way of going against our expectations. People do get into arguments and fights. It's Human nature unfortunately. This is why context is super important.

A previous poster mentioned "gas-lighting" and how it relates to domestic abuse and I felt that this was an interesting thing to bring up as it allows us to understand that there can be quite a lot of severe manipulation of emotions in bad relationships.

A problem that we have to consider is that "The Internet" has been quick to say how brave this woman has been and how genuine her video is and how it has raised our awareness etc but my opinion is that the bandwagon has been jumped on too soon and if the full story comes out and there are contradictions or it appears that she hasn't told the full truth then it does WAY more harm than any good that might have been achieved.

The "attack" on this woman by other women seems to be not much more than skepticism to be honest. People are right to be skeptical in situations like this. Domestic Violence is a serious serious problem in our society and we have to be sure that the examples we want to hold up or the advice we want to give is watertight. Jumping on Facebook to make a point before you know all the details has the potential to be extremely harmful to the greater discussion surrounding Domestic Violence.

We need to stop allowing ourselves to simplify these situations before getting all the facts and we need to stop indulging these knee-jerk reactions.

If it turns out this man is guilty (and I believe that he is) then he should be punished by the courts and then she can release her video statement as someone who genuinely was brave and who overcame domestic abuse and saw to it that her abuser was convicted. I think this would be the preferred outcome, yes?

If it turns out that the situation is more complex and she had been provoking him or he had really just pushed her and she got the injury when she fell then is extremely damaging for women who may have considered speaking out but now will be afraid because people with think they are being dishonest.

This is an area where people ought to be treading carefully instead of unthinkingly jumping right in.

Mardy Bum

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

What utter horsesh*t. But that's the kind of crazy sh*t you've posted all the way through this thread. I don't take the word of a stranger looking for sympathy on Facebook and I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder. If I were to use your batsh*t crazy logic I could argue that accepting her word as gospel makes you and everyone else who doesn't know her yet believes everything she says as being the ones with chips on their shoulder.

'Attacks on her by other women' Suggesting that it's possible that she might not be telling the truth and and saying that exposing her children to the 3 ring circus of media attention is a bad thing merits an attack on her, Jaysus.:D

You appear to be quite aggravated by the whole thing from your responses.

You have said you have no sympathy for her after watching the video. It takes a very tough person to say that after watching it. You have presumed that she is lying (because there is no way you could watch it and not have sympathy for her). You then believe that she is either an actress or delusional.

You are the one making presumptions.

Pumpkinseeds

Boring username wrote: »

A lot of people are being very foolish in what they are posting here, and could be leaving themselves wide open to legal action. I'm surprised boards has left this thread open as Gardai are currently investigating the assault. I would say his legal team could make a very convincing case that the case has been prejudiced by the widespread attention the video has attracted.

I was thinking that. Given that she has admitted to being guilty of domestic violence against him he could seek custody of the kids on that basis as well. Rightly or wrongly, a good solicitor could probably make a reasonable case for giving custody of the kids to the father.

jimdublin15

Cormac... wrote: »

How am I dismissing it? There's plenty of white knighting going on all over AH, not just here, without me needing to state the obvious (and oft repeated) points like

"Domestic Violence is wrong against both men and women"
"Hitting people is wrong"

There ya go, there's the token lip service.
I was raised to know these things, doesn't mean I need to post them every single chance.

I know how to find the length of the side of an right-angled triangle too but I don't bring that up every time I eat Tortilla chips

By using and accepting certain phrasing and wording of issues such as being gender specific when it relates to matters that nearly by fact affects both or all of us equally we are in fact making it socially acceptable to view it as a one side gender issue.

See one of the biggest issue with domestic abuse is it's not reported for a number of reasons, such as the 26 % of men who have fears it will be dismissed in part because socially were accepting the usage of language that women are victims and men are not, so when someone makes a sweeping and/or gender based statements yes I comment and if it needs to be said 40 or 400 times it needs to be said.

You see it as white knighting that's up to you. I think you're just dismissive

Pumpkinseeds

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You appear to be quite aggravated by the whole thing from your responses.

You have said you have no sympathy for her after watching the video. It takes a very tough person to say that after watching it. You have presumed that she is lying (because there is no way you could watch it and not have sympathy for her). You then believe that she is either an actress or delusional.

You are the one making presumptions.

Presumptions? Can you point out where I said I'd watched the video? I stated clearly that I did not watch the video and that my posts are based on what I've read on this thread. We have courts of law for proving guilt or innocence, not trial by tears and the accusations of a woman scorned. I really don't even know why this is in newspapers, it must be a very slow newsweek.

blatantrereg

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

We have courts of law for proving guilt or innocence, not trial by tears and the accusations of a woman scorned.

The idea is that courts are for proving guilt only. Innocence is supposed to be presumed until proven otherwise, and therefore there shouldn't be a requirement to prove it. Of course the reality doesn't always reflect this ideal.

I agree with your point though.

4friggA

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Pretty self-explanatory.

Obviously not if I've queried it.

Mardy Bum

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Presumptions? Can you point out where I said I'd watched the video? I stated clearly that I did not watch the video and that my posts are based on what I've read on this thread. We have courts of law for proving guilt or innocence, not trial by tears and the accusations of a woman scorned. I really don't even know why this is in newspapers, it must be a very slow newsweek.

I presumed when you said you had no sympathy for her that you had watched it because otherwise its a strange statement.

If you have not watched it I'm struggling to understand why you are so invested in this. Your anger seems to be that she put this on the internet for others to see. That she spoke out about domestic violence despite never mentioning the guys name, address or anything like that.

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

First beating is not free. First time a safety order is broken, I was told by the gardai that they'll be warned on the first time (so they're to keep away from the house and they show up on your door step, the first time this happens they aren't arrested.) I'll take a guards word for that over someone on the Internet.

If you seriously assault someone, they make a statement and press charges, you are looking at being locked up. I'm not talking about taking a drunken swing at a person on a Saturday night outside supermacs, I mean a proper full on assault, where you cause significant injury to another person, it's GBH and the defendant is looking at prison time.

Um, you do know that your posts here are, like mine, equally the input of "someone on the internet"?

I am telling you the law. You evidently do not have the slightest iota of it. Whoever told you that a safety order requires anyone to stay away from a house is either taking the proverbial or having a laugh at your expense. Because as surely most people on this thread understand, that's a barring order, not a safety order.

But look, don't take my word for it, after all I am, like you, "someone on the internet". Here is the statute itself.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/act/pub/0001/sec0002.html

And swings outside Supermacs are also proper assaults. Though I see you have now changed your post to limit the reference to "GBH". There is actually no such offence at all in Ireland (is that your 4th or 5th piece of nonsense). You possibly mean the very rarely prosecuted Section 2 and 3 assaults causing actual bodily harm and serious bodily harm.

orubiru

eviltwin wrote: »

If you pick up the phone everytime your partner does something aggressive or threatening they will soon get sick of you. Think about it. Your partner grabs you and holds a knife to your throat threatening to kill you, you believe him or her and you call gardai...you have no proof, no wounds, its your word against your partners, the gardai go away and nothing has changed, the next time it happens and you call they come around and go away again and you soon get the reputation for being that person who calls up everytime you get into a fight with your loved one. Most victims are well used to that and therefore don't call, they know they won't get anywhere.

I think that you have highlighted a very serious point that doesn't really seem to be discussed at all.

Society is quick to praise the victim sporting the black eye and pointing the finger at the attacker. Society is just as quick to say "its probably not that serious then" to the victim who's injuries are psychological or not obviously visible and people who seem too tall or big or scarey to be a victim are more or less ignored.

Again, it comes down to education. People need to be informed about how to recognize problems and they need to be equipped to deal with those problems when they arise.

I am sure that a lot of people suffer in silence because they actually have no idea how do escape or counter the things that are happening to them.

I can honestly say that I do not recall ever having any exposure to initiatives that try to inform people about how to deal with abusive and/or destructive relationships.

Most of our relationship preparation and education comes from media or personal experience right? So people can find themselves in dire situations long before they have any idea how to even deal with it.

Pumpkinseeds

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I presumed when you said you had no sympathy for her that you had watched it because otherwise its a strange statement.

If you have not watched it I'm struggling to understand why you are so invested in this. Your anger seems to be that she put this on the internet for others to see. That she spoke out about domestic violence despite never mentioning the guys name, address or anything like that.

I'm not angry. If anything I'm shocked that so many people take the accusations of a random stranger as being true. What this story boils down to is a woman whose husband cheated on her went online with a bruised eye and accused her husband of beating her. It may be true, it may not be true. But without hesitation, people have supported her allegations, without question and anyone who does question her motives or heaven forfend, suggest that it's posssible that she's lying, is attacked for 'attacking her'.

I'm not invested in it. I'm genuinely concerned at how people can support an attack on a man they don't know which has effectively destroyed his businesses because he's been tried by social media and found guilty. What if the guy were your son, husband or brother? How would you feel if they were being dragged through the mud so publically based on nothing more than accusations made by a woman he'd cheated on?

Menas

orubiru wrote: »

So people can find themselves in dire situations long before they have any idea how to even deal with it.

And that is the key point. Helping victims know what they can do when domestic violence happens, be it from a partner or sibling or parent.
From a legal and personal perspective.
Way too much domestic abuse is not reported until it is too late as the law is seen as the last resort.

One eyed Jack

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Again my point is it should be investigated, and yes the system is broken. (We are in agreement on that point)

In truth, I agree with you in principle that these cases should be properly investigated and there should be adequate supports in place and adequate deterrents in place to prevent people from committing domestic violence, but I think most of us here are aware how like every issue in society, it's a question of resources and attitudes in society - sufficient resources aren't funneled into dealing with domestic violence because people don't see it as a serious issue, because people aren't generally aware of the scale of the issue, because the authorities don't have the resources to tackle it, and organisations don't have the resources to support the victims.

The solution is not to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen, and shame anyone who dares speak out. We're not all so familiar with the legal system that our first thought is to go to the authorities. More and more nowadays whether we like it or not, social media is giving a voice to those people in society who have largely gone ignored. We used to be able to conveniently ignore that which we found awkward, pretend it wasn't happening, etc. Social media hasn't just ripped apart "the very fabric of society", it's given a voice to people we'd rather kept their business to themselves. The awkwardness is OUR problem, it's something WE should be ashamed of, not the victims of domestic violence. They haven't done anything wrong, they shouldn't be punished three times over - first by the perpetrator, second by the authorities, and third by the public.

But instant justice and to bypass law and order to punish those presumed guilty ? No. Can't agree with that and won't. That is just a form of the ends justifies the means argument. We can't live like that.

But no justice has been meted out yet? The guy chose to go into hiding himself, and apparently he's come out in the media saying he didn't do anything, he just pushed her. There will be no justice here in a case of he said/she said, and that's often the case in domestic violence cases. It's impossible to separate fact from fiction (I keep thinking of the woman I know who broke her own jaw off the stairs bannister so she could say her ex did it!), so it's understandable that people are going to take the law into their own hands when the law as they see it is unfit to protect them and punish the person they see as guilty.

As for the overall issue were talking about 26 % of men and 29 % of women and they deserve more support than a media frenzy and a few facebook posts that will fizz out after a few days /weeks. This is over a quarter of the population and not only them but the children and family around them that are affected. I love all the (Not directed at you) keyboard hero's coming out on this one calling for support and what should be done. You such a shame as most of them should be more focused on the topic before the frenzy and in real life not behind the keyboard.

I know what you mean, and honestly I would hate to see this woman become the "poster girl" for domestic violence (I've no time for "celebrity misfortunes"), because the double edged sword as you quite rightly point out is that the social media spotlight will be on her for a bit, before it moves on to the next "issue", and domestic violence again gets swept under the carpet because it's not a sexy hot topic any more, the authorities are off the hook again and can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

orubiru

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I presumed when you said you had no sympathy for her that you had watched it because otherwise its a strange statement.

If you have not watched it I'm struggling to understand why you are so invested in this. Your anger seems to be that she put this on the internet for others to see. That she spoke out about domestic violence despite never mentioning the guys name, address or anything like that.

Probably for the same reason that most of us feel invested in it. Domestic Violence is a serious problem. Any kind of abuse and assault that can go on behind closed doors, in private, away from the reach of the law is unacceptable to most people.

Most people will have had some kind exposure to domestic violence or abuse or bullying or manipulation in some form, either as victim or abuser or both. So, most people will have an opinion.

For you, it seems totally unacceptable to consider that some accusations may not be truthful or there may be lies or abuse or manipulation taking place behind the mask of the victim/accuser. So when someone points this out to you the reaction is to shut them down rather then to think "wait, this could be a really complicated issue".

If ALL you have to offer is praise for this woman for speaking out about domestic violence then I am sorry to tell you but the vast majority of people already know that it exists and know that it's wrong.

No amount of anecdotes or youtube videos or facebook posts are going to improve the situation for victims of abuse. I can't imagine how awareness can be raised any higher than it already is.

Maybe it's time for people to say "Hey, maybe Pumpkinseeds has a point here. We should really look into the mechanics of abuse and accusation and manipulation to see if we can better educate ourselves to deal with these things".

All you seem to be trying to do is attempting to shut someone down who is saying that maybe things are not always as they appear.

jimdublin15

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In truth, I agree with you in principle that these cases should be properly investigated and there should be adequate supports in place and adequate deterrents in place to prevent people from committing domestic violence, but I think most of us here are aware how like every issue in society, it's a question of resources and attitudes in society - sufficient resources aren't funneled into dealing with domestic violence because people don't see it as a serious issue, because people aren't generally aware of the scale of the issue, because the authorities don't have the resources to tackle it, and organisations don't have the resources to support the victims.

The solution is not to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen, and shame anyone who dares speak out. We're not all so familiar with the legal system that our first thought is to go to the authorities. More and more nowadays whether we like it or not, social media is giving a voice to those people in society who have largely gone ignored. We used to be able to conveniently ignore that which we found awkward, pretend it wasn't happening, etc. Social media hasn't just ripped apart "the very fabric of society", it's given a voice to people we'd rather kept their business to themselves. The awkwardness is OUR problem, it's something WE should be ashamed of, not the victims of domestic violence. They haven't done anything wrong, they shouldn't be punished three times over - first by the perpetrator, second by the authorities, and third by the public.

Marked in bold I fully agree with you, i think for the most part we agree.
However it's a matter that should be investigated by the cops and not a matter for the public first. We don't have all the facts and we son't know what happened, hence it needs investigation. Now it's become a media item before the investigation and that is troublesome.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But no justice has been meted out yet? The guy chose to go into hiding himself, and apparently he's come out in the media saying he didn't do anything, he just pushed her. There will be no justice here in a case of he said/she said, and that's often the case in domestic violence cases. It's impossible to separate fact from fiction (I keep thinking of the woman I know who broke her own jaw off the stairs bannister so she could say her ex did it!), so it's understandable that people are going to take the law into their own hands when the law as they see it is unfit to protect them and punish the person they see as guilty.

Would agree in general that in cases around domestic abuse there is little to no justice in the case, it's difficult in domestic abuse cases as it's often a he said / she said story . Mine was on tape so she admitted to it in the end to the cops when confronted with the tape, but if I did not have the tape it would have been a different story, and a good chance I would have been the one accused at the end of the day.

One thing is for sure, this whole situation with this poor lady's case has not made it any easier for the the investigating offices to investigate the matter.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know what you mean, and honestly I would hate to see this woman become the "poster girl" for domestic violence (I've no time for "celebrity misfortunes"), because the double edged sword as you quite rightly point out is that the social media spotlight will be on her for a bit, before it moves on to the next "issue", and domestic violence again gets swept under the carpet because it's not a sexy hot topic any more, the authorities are off the hook again and can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

Indeed.

orubiru

Menas wrote: »

And that is the key point. Helping victims know what they can do when domestic violence happens, be it from a partner or sibling or parent.
From a legal and personal perspective.
Way too much domestic abuse is not reported until it is too late as the law is seen as the last resort.

I think in Ireland recently we've only had the "Man Up" campaign, right?

Which, to me, seems more like an attempt to tell men not to be an abuser. I don't really understand why anyone would think that "shaming" men who commit violent acts or abuse their wives or children is somehow going to work.

Personally, I don't think it's a particularly comforting thought that violent guys are somehow being kept in line by an advertising campaign.

What I feel we really need is more campaigning on how people can identify potentially damaging behaviors and get out safely if things start to fall apart.

Do victims of domestic abuse in Ireland even have a place to go if things start to get bad? I don't mean someplace they can go after it has gotten out of hand, I mean somewhere they can go for advice when they feel there are warning signs of future trouble?

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that partners don't just randomly become violent and/or abusive overnight.

I agree that it definitely seems like no action is taken until it's too late.

eviltwin

orubiru wrote: »

I think in Ireland recently we've only had the "Man Up" campaign, right?

Which, to me, seems more like an attempt to tell men not to be an abuser. I don't really understand why anyone would think that "shaming" men who commit violent acts or abuse their wives or children is somehow going to work.

Personally, I don't think it's a particularly comforting thought that violent guys are somehow being kept in line by an advertising campaign.

What I feel we really need is more campaigning on how people can identify potentially damaging behaviors and get out safely if things start to fall apart.

Do victims of domestic abuse in Ireland even have a place to go if things start to get bad? I don't mean someplace they can go after it has gotten out of hand, I mean somewhere they can go for advice when they feel there are warning signs of future trouble?

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that partners don't just randomly become violent and/or abusive overnight.

I agree that it definitely seems like no action is taken until it's too late.

Womens Aid and Amen have warning signs to look out for on their websites. They will talk to anyone with concerns on the phone, even parents, friends who are worried about someone. They can help safety plan for someone who needs to get out.

All great but very few people really know abuse when they see it, its so subtle. Very few abusers start off punching their partners, its a slow burner over months or years so by the time the abuser has progressed to violence the victim is so broken down they can't tell anyone or feel somehow to blame.

I have a friend who was in an abusive relationship for 3 years, I never knew. I never saw the signs, never copped on that he was not what he seemed. She eventually killed herself because she couldn't see a way out and he's now in prison for attacking another woman with a hammer. Even with hindsight looking back he was a great bloke, nothing was out of place.

I really believe that we need to educate young people about the dangers of abusive relationships, it needs to be part of SPHE. Its worrying that studies show how many young people think abuse in a relationship isn't abuse or that its sometimes justified.

orubiru

eviltwin wrote: »

Womens Aid and Amen have warning signs to look out for on their websites. They will talk to anyone with concerns on the phone, even parents, friends who are worried about someone. They can help safety plan for someone who needs to get out.

All great but very few people really know abuse when they see it, its so subtle. Very few abusers start off punching their partners, its a slow burner over months or years so by the time the abuser has progressed to violence the victim is so broken down they can't tell anyone or feel somehow to blame.

I have a friend who was in an abusive relationship for 3 years, I never knew. I never saw the signs, never copped on that he was not what he seemed. She eventually killed herself because she couldn't see a way out and he's now in prison for attacking another woman with a hammer. Even with hindsight looking back he was a great bloke, nothing was out of place.

I really believe that we need to educate young people about the dangers of abusive relationships, it needs to be part of SPHE. Its worrying that studies show how many young people think abuse in a relationship isn't abuse or that its sometimes justified.

Couldn't agree more with this.

MrWalsh

I dont know whether or not the content of the video was the truth or not.

But if I take it at face value, I think that she should not have released that video. We have a criminal justice system, trial by social media is not acceptable. She has now caused a situation where he cannot have any kind of a fair trial because people will be influenced by the content of her video. His lawyers will jump on that and it will mean he doesnt get fairly punished for the assault.

If she wanted to make that video and release it she should have waited until after there was a conviction secured against him.

I also noticed in the video that she made no mention of reporting the assault to the guards, and that she has left her entire facebook page wide open so her childrens privacy is now gone as well.

The woman has my every sympathy for the situation she was in but I dont think that this is the way forward.

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

I dont know whether or not the content of the video was the truth or not.

But if I take it at face value, I think that she should not have released that video. We have a criminal justice system, trial by social media is not acceptable. She has now caused a situation where he cannot have any kind of a fair trial because people will be influenced by the content of her video. His lawyers will jump on that and it will mean he doesnt get fairly punished for the assault.

If she wanted to make that video and release it she should have waited until after there was a conviction secured against him.

I also noticed in the video that she made no mention of reporting the assault to the guards, and that she has left her entire facebook page wide open so her childrens privacy is now gone as well.

The woman has my every sympathy for the situation she was in but I dont think that this is the way forward.

In her victim mentality she has violated the rights of a number of people, including her own children.

Even if what she says is true, what she has done in retaliation is also abusive.

This is not the first time I've seen "protection" used as a means to make civil abuses palatable.

Adventure Pout

I watched her vid and am not convinced.
Remember she is a fitness blogger, known from nowhere -and i'd say she knew what her intentions were.She knows how to use social media and destroy a person life instead of going through the system to protect her and her kids.
Her first sentence started with: 'Hi guys..My name is Emma... Emma Murphy...' ==> this is the way you learn in marketing to introduce yourself when starting a presentation/marketing strategy
Having said the names and showing her kids on the vids are a very wrong way to protect and secure them especially in the public eye
Her black eye does not prove anything - it is easy to fake a black eye (am not saying she did but it is of no proof whatsoever). The first thing people see is she has a bruise on her face and that what make people bite into her story (true or not, we don't really know)
And not wanting to move into racism, but a blondie getting beaten up by a big black dude -- it is quite a 'sensational scoop' isn't? And that will target lots of reactions, comments (and racist ones as well)
What are her real motivations? beside the fact she said to raise awareness. We all know man/woman violence is a no way to have.And there is lots of awareness raised about that in the media
So why posting in her personal page AND fan page?
What she did is a complete defamation of character and I think this is completely wrong. We don't know the guy and we don't know her - and both personality.
We only hear her side of the story.. I'd say the guy stays silence because everything he say, can be used against him and might also get lots of knife thrown to him.
That's my opinion

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, you do know that your posts here are, like mine, equally the input of "someone on the internet"?

I am telling you the law. You evidently do not have the slightest iota of it. Whoever told you that a safety order requires anyone to stay away from a house is either taking the proverbial or having a laugh at your expense. Because as surely most people on this thread understand, that's a barring order, not a safety order.

But look, don't take my word for it, after all I am, like you, "someone on the internet". Here is the statute itself.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/act/pub/0001/sec0002.html

And swings outside Supermacs are also proper assaults. Though I see you have now changed your post to limit the reference to "GBH". There is actually no such offence at all in Ireland (is that your 4th or 5th piece of nonsense). You possibly mean the very rarely prosecuted Section 2 and 3 assaults causing actual bodily harm and serious bodily harm.

Alright Conor.

Just as an FYI.
Safety order: he may be arrested (discretion of the gardai) this must be the one the guard talked to me about
Protection order: will be arrested