Dublin Bus 7/59/111 Changes

LXFlyer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Very significant number of older people on low incomes in Sallynoggin. Dublin Bus claim they want to improve journey times for commuters.

If they were being clever about it they should introduce more AM and PM 7X services using Sallyglen Road and leave the 10-4pm 7 and 45a services largely unchanged.

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

But Sallynoggin will still have a bus service - the 45a.

Are you suggesting that this area is any different from other areas of the city where the main routes have been diverted out of local areas onto the main roads?

punisher5112

Its a pity they aren't pushing for time saving opportunities in the city centre.

Passenger education is badly needed along with cutting dwelling times.

I find one of the biggest issues is buggies and the huge reluctance to actually fold them.

So much can and could be done.
Have better traffic light controls as to give a clear run for buses etc.

Larbre34

Chinasea wrote: »

I am ALL for people using public transport (as opposed to cars) but, imo, there are way too many people and their 'companions' entitled to free travel. We have one of the highest ageing population in Europe = free travel, the highest amount of people per capita in receipt of disability = free travel, so how is this all supposed to be afforded. Perhaps if they were to pay some charge all be it nominal this could help towards supplying said services.

That's one point of view. There is the debate about welfare recipients and companions across the categories, but I'm glad FT was protected for older people, its a great enabler and it offsets other potential problems with mental health and vulnerability. Even a nominal charge to people who use a couple of buses a day and earn a low level on the non-contributory pension, would be enough to deter them. We might have a high aging population, but many of them broke their backs contributing in their productive years and as a society we are judged by how we treat them.

LXFlyer

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dun-Laoghaire-Sallynoggin-and-Loughlinstown-Network-Review/

Dun Laoghaire, Sallynoggin and Loughlinstown Network Review

Published on Monday, July 27, 2015

Dublin Bus, in conjunction with the National Transport Authority, proposes to improve the bus network in Dún Laoghaire, Sallynoggin and Loughlinstown. The proposed changes will deliver a service which is more direct and frequent, with improved connections to Luas and DART. This will provide access to new destinations across Dublin.

Dublin Bus carried out research and analysis into the current travel patterns of customers on the following routes:

Routes 7, 7b, 7c, 7d, 8, 45a, 59, 63 and 111
This research found that, with changes to traffic infrastructure and customer travelling requirements, a redesign of bus services is required to continue to provide a quality service to customers in the area.

The key objectives of this review are to:

• simplify the area’s bus network,
• provide a service which meets the level of demand in the area,
• provide improved connections to Luas and DART,
• improve journey times on key bus routes, and
• provide more consistent frequencies.

Please click on the links below to view proposed changes:

Proposal for Routes 7, 7c and 45a
Proposal for Routes 8, 59, 63 and 111
Proposal for Routes 7b and 7d


Dublin Bus is committed to engaging with customers in regard to these proposed changes. We welcome your feedback. You can submit your feedback by:
Email: feedback@dublinbus.ie

Post: Dún Laoghaire Feedback,
Media and Communications Department,
Dublin Bus,
59 Upper O'Connell Street,
Dublin 1.

Please send us your feedback by Friday 14th August 2015.

Dublin Bus is hosting an Information Day in Dún Laoghaire Shopping Centre on Friday, 31st July between 12.00 and 16.00.

the groutch

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Dublin Bus will hold an open information day in Dún Laoghaire Shopping Centre on Friday 31 July 2015 between 1200 and 1600 hours.

do you have any opinion yourself on the proposed changes?

dublinman1990

Does anyone know what the frequency will be for 7/7c routes on Sundays/Bank Holidays if these routes were implemented?

LXFlyer

Presumably the same as it is now. Every 20 minutes?

Why don't you ask them?

pm1977x

I'm a 2 min walk from the 7 in Sallynoggin at the moment but never use it for work commute as it takes far too long with it's various detours, why does it even need to go to Blackrock (served by the 4 + DART) and Dun Laoghaire (served by numerous other buses + DART), instead I trek over to the 46a which is far faster even with the extra walk.

LXFlyer

pm1977x wrote: »

I'm a 2 min walk from the 7 in Sallynoggin at the moment but never use it for work commute as it takes far too long with it's various detours, why does it even need to go to Blackrock (served by the 4 + DART) and Dun Laoghaire (served by numerous other buses + DART), instead I trek over to the 46a which is far faster even with the extra walk.

Why does it need to serve Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock? Because it's the main bus on the Rock Road QBC.

Bizarrely enough people from south of those places may want to go to them as well?

Also not everyone using it from elsewhere along the route may be able to get to a DART station.

grimm2005

I really hope these changes are made. I've been getting the 7 for years and the journey is just so long and arduous. The extra stops on Sallyglen road and the 45A reroute means that everyone will be covered. Sure, it might makes things a bit more inconvenient for a minority of folks but I think most folks on the rest of the route will welcome the changes. The journey to the city centre on the 7 bothers me so much that I often hop off in Dun Laoghaire and grab the Dart the rest of the way or walk to the 145 stop instead.

Skipping Blackrock village makes a lot of sense as well, considering how close to the Frascatti centre stop it is.

Fratton Fred

I thought the 8 was going to continue for the school run?

Cookie_Monster

Larbre34 wrote: »

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

what about the 100's, maybe 1000's of customers it is moving closer to, those that live the other side of Sallyglen road?

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought the 8 was going to continue for the school run?

It may do as a school service rather than a normal bus.

Larbre34

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what about the 100's, maybe 1000's of customers it is moving closer to, those that live the other side of Sallyglen road?

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

Cookie_Monster

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

so, what, more likely to have a job and hence a bigger requirement to commute so more revenue generated for DB / NTA. would seem like a no brainer to me,

45a provides the social service and links for the FTP users if they cannot manage the 5/600 metres of additional walking required.

Fratton Fred

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

isn't the idea of public transport to get people out of their cars?

uch

Fratton Fred wrote: »

isn't the idea of public transport to get people out of their cars?

I agree totally Fred, but some people wouldn't get out of their cars if the Bus dropped them to their front door. Personally I think Dublin Bus will go through the motions of public consultation and so on, and just do what they want regardless.

SimonMaher

Just on a point of clarification here - the idea of public transport is far from exclusively to get people out of their cars. Public transport would have been originally designed as a method of mass transit for people who didn't have cars in the first place. That remains a vital purpose of public transport in many aspects now whether that is on the basis of economics, infirmity, age (young or old) etc. Now, return to your debate

Simon

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

High car ownership is an unfortunate by-product of a poorly planned public transportation system and a failure to provide proper infrastructure that would allow them to operate to good effect. For example, in its current form, the 7 is a complete nightmare if you're traveling from Ballybrack, Cherrywood or Laughlinstown to Dublin City.

To begin with, the traffic on Rochestown Avenue is often sluggish. Then, it has to make its way through Sallynoggin where it operates through housing estates (with some narrow roads I might add). I can very well imagine this stretch alone taking 10-20 minutes at peak times. Then, in Blackrock, it takes a right down Newtown Avenue at a set of traffic lights that can take anything up to 3 minutes to go green. Along Newtown Avenue, the road becomes somewhat tight with the recent installation of a contra-flow cycle lane. It then has to wait at 2 more sets of traffic lights, one at Urban Junction and the other at Frascati Road itself. This can also add another 5 to 10 minutes on to the journey. I imagine this is much longer on peak. The two new alignments along Sallyglen Road and the Blackrock Bypass should shave a minimum of 15 minutes off the overall journey length. As a result, more people are likely to switch from their cars to this route alone. I've said it once and I'll say it again, speed is one of the most important factors in planning public transport.

While I still sympathize with those suffering from moderate to severe physical disabilities who will loose out over the reroute, I do think the proposed new alignment for the 45A is an adequate compromise. Yeah, it's not as frequent as the 7 but, it will still keep them connected to the network. Nevertheless, I can see many of them having an issue over this new arrangement and the changes required to get to town/Blackrock.

ted1 wrote: »

Busses are not long haul. There destinations are not from A to B. they are from A to Z with numerous destinations along the way. they don't just serve the terminating points.

I was merely making a metaphor or comparison if you will. For example, local bus routes are akin to short-haul flights while city to outer suburb routes are akin to long haul. City bound buses shouldn't operate through housing estates at all. This should be left to local or feeder routes.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

High car ownership is an unfortunate by-product of a poorly planned public transportation system and a failure to provide proper infrastructure that would allow them to operate to good effect. For example, in its current form, the 7 is a complete nightmare if you're traveling from Ballybrack, Cherrywood or Laughlinstown to Dublin City.
.

As is the 75, 77, 65, 16,etc but the 145 is perfect, as Is the LUAS.

There is no need for duplication of routes.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

City bound buses shouldn't operate through housing estates at all. This should be left to local or feeder routes.

Did you just say that public transport should not service areas where the public live???

So you think the LUAS so stop at "future stop " and continue to the green with out stopping at populated stops?

Cookie_Monster

ted1 wrote: »

Did you just say that public transport should not service areas where the public live???

So you think the LUAS so stop at "future stop " and continue to the green with out stopping at populated stops?

way to take it out of context. What's he's saying is that there should be core trunk routes that run on main roads and don't waste huge amounts of time driving down every side road or housing estate.
Funnily enough the NTA and DB think exactly the same thing and have been pursuing this strategy for the last couple of years.

ted1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

way to take it out of context. What's he's saying is that there should be core trunk routes that run on main roads and don't waste huge amounts of time driving down every side road or housing estate.
Funnily enough the NTA and DB think exactly the same thing and have been pursuing this strategy for the last couple of years.

The likes of the 145 would meet that criteria

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

The likes of the 145 would meet that criteria

The 7 is a trunk route also - each QBC has a core route that sticks to main roads - that just didn't happen during Network Direct with the 7 the last time round.

The 7 is the core route for the Rock Road QBC.

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

The 7 is a trunk route also - each QBC has a core route that sticks to main roads - that just didn't happen during Network Direct with the 7 the last time round.

The 7 is the core route for the Rock Road QBC.

Doesn't the Dart run parallel to the rock road

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn't the Dart run parallel to the rock road

Yes, but what's that got to do with it? The 7 for the entire route sticks to main roads, except at Blackrock and Sallynoggin. They are merely straightening it out in the same way other routes all over the city have been straightened out. Nothing else will change. The 7 will still serve the same stops between the city and Dun Laoghaire.

I'm not really sure what your point is. The vast majority of users of the 7 in Sallynoggin will be able to walk to Sallyglen Road to catch it, and anyone from south of there will benefit from the reduced journey time.

Anyone who can't walk to Sallyglen Rd will in all likelihood have a free travel pass and will be able to use the 45a.

People are not being abandoned.

patrickbrophy18

The only people I can think of who will loose out the most are those in Killiney Village and to a lesser extent Killiney Road. This is because they are situated a considerable distance away from the proposed routes. I sent Dublin Bus an email with a suggestion to reroute the 7B to Killiney Village as Shankill is already well served by the 145, 45A, 84/A, Finnegan's and the DART as well as the proposed rerouted 59 and the Greystones Aircoach. The 7B currently gives Shankill a connection to the N11 albeit via the Monkstown Ringroad. Given that the 145 already serves this purpose to much better effect, I see the role of the 7B here as redundant. What do y'all reckon?

LXFlyer

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The only people I can think of who will loose out the most are those in Killiney Village and to a lesser extent Killiney Road. This is because they are situated a considerable distance away from the proposed routes. I sent Dublin Bus an email with a suggestion to reroute the 7B to Killiney Village as Shankill is already well served by the 145, 45A, 84/A, Finnegan's and the DART as well as the proposed rerouted 59 and the Greystones Aircoach. The 7B currently gives Shankill a connection to the N11 albeit via the Monkstown Ringroad. Given that the 145 already serves this purpose to much better effect, I see the role of the 7B here as redundant. What do y'all reckon?

I think that idea is nonsense to be honest (and blunt).

The 7b is a commuter service for Shankill, Ballybrack and Rochestown Avenue. The 145 goes nowhere near any of Shanganagh Road or Church Road. I don't see that changing in any way, shape or form.

Killiney Hill needs a local community bus route (like the 59), to link it with the local shops, not a commuter route.

What I suspect will happen is that either a full service will be retained up to Killiney Hill, or certain departures on the 59 will retain a service up Killiney Hill (in much the same way as certain departures on route 63 serve Foxrock).

the groutch

did anyone attend the information day?

patrickbrophy18

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that idea is nonsense to be honest (and blunt).

That's your opinion which is fair enough.

lxflyer wrote: »

The 7b is a commuter service for Shankill, Ballybrack and Rochestown Avenue. The 145 goes nowhere near any of Shanganagh Road or Church Road. I don't see that changing in any way, shape or form.

Shanganagh Road and Church Road are regularly served by the 45A and are well within walking distance of the 7 which is a high frequency commuter route. Both roads are also a 10 minute walk from Killiney DART station and also the 145, 84 and 702 Aircoach routes. So, they aren't doing too badly.

lxflyer wrote: »

Killiney Hill needs a local community bus route (like the 59), to link it with the local shops, not a commuter route.

There is Fitzpatrick's Castle Hotel which would stand to benefit hugely from a commuter route. Now, I know it is served by the 703 Aircoach route which is a big plus for foreign tourists. However, considering the size of the hotel, it is still quite isolated in other respects. Plus, a 7B of this nature would act as a connector for other hotels such as the Rochestown Lodge Hotel, National Rehabilitation Hospital, Stillorgan Park and Radisson Blu Hotels. Not to mention the fact that it would connect Killiney Shopping Center to the N11, taking in Stillorgan Shopping Center, UCD and Donnybrook. In other words, it would connect like with like.

lxflyer wrote: »

What I suspect will happen is that either a full service will be retained up to Killiney Hill, or certain departures on the 59 will retain a service up Killiney Hill (in much the same way as certain departures on route 63 serve Foxrock).

This would essentially make it a skeleton service which is bound to fail.

The 7B reroute was only a suggestion. I do think it's worth experimenting with new routes. After all, they can always cancel a route after a year if the numbers fail to add up or at least restore it to its original alignment.