Dublin Bus 7/59/111 Changes

LXFlyer

Killiney Castle does not need a commuter route. Most of the people staying there would be using taxis and not buses - really the volumes are just not there.

Go and take the 7b several mornings when the schools and colleges are back and tell me then that it's not needed along the route that it takes.

The market for buses at the top of the Hill is for local services - this obsession that you have with connecting it with the N11 is fantasy.

LXFlyer

the groutch wrote: »

did anyone attend the information day?

It was very busy when I passed by yesterday - plenty of people discussing the proposals with DB representatives.

SimonMaher

I think LXFlyer is right here with his prediction as to what will happen with the 59. From what I've heard suggested by local reps there will be a couple of concessions like that to this plan. Running a number of 59s up to Killiney is a good idea and should help out.

There is talk too of a small number of off-peak 7s going through Sallynoggin in the morning/lunchtime to provide a link to clinics in St Vincents and other healthcare/religious/daycare facilities. Similar to the diverted 45A's in Shangannah Cliffs etc. Seems fair enough too.

I think people at the southern end of the route who are losing the irregular 111 are happy with the proposal to run the 59 from Loughlinstown hospital to Dun Laoghaire via Dalkey.

Another issue being raised is bus stop locations on the Sallyglen stretch. It has been suggested that new bus stops would be placed near enough to the traffic lights at either end of Sallyglen road (essentially replacing the Graduate stop and the stop outside Power City inbound and the Woodies and Graduate stops outbound).

It's all about finding solutions that accomodate people while maintaining the reliability and capacity of the trunk routes as was said above.

Simon

LXFlyer

SimonMaher wrote: »

I think LXFlyer is right here with his prediction as to what will happen with the 59. From what I've heard suggested by local reps there will be a couple of concessions like that to this plan. Running a number of 59s up to Killiney is a good idea and should help out.

There is talk too of a small number of off-peak 7s going through Sallynoggin in the morning/lunchtime to provide a link to clinics in St Vincents and other healthcare/religious/daycare facilities. Similar to the diverted 45A's in Shangannah Cliffs etc. Seems fair enough too.

I think people at the southern end of the route who are losing the irregular 111 are happy with the proposal to run the 59 from Loughlinstown hospital to Dun Laoghaire via Dalkey.

Another issue being raised is bus stop locations on the Sallyglen stretch. It has been suggested that new bus stops would be placed near enough to the traffic lights at either end of Sallyglen road (essentially replacing the Graduate stop and the stop outside Power City inbound and the Woodies and Graduate stops outbound).

It's all about finding solutions that accomodate people while maintaining the reliability and capacity of the trunk routes as was said above.

Simon

That would probably be the best solution.

Stephen15

I see some idiots are protesting agansit the 59 been withdrawn from Makintosh Park even though they will be getting a more 63 frequent service to Dun Laoghaire fools.

SimonMaher wrote: »

There is talk too of a small number of off-peak 7s going through Sallynoggin in the morning/lunchtime to provide a link to clinics in St Vincents and other healthcare/religious/daycare facilities. Similar to the diverted 45A's in Shangannah Cliffs etc. Seems fair enough too.

Or they might be running a hourly off peak 7a through Sallynoggin like they do on the 83 with 83a's going through the Tolka estate

Larbre34

Fools? So long as its a reasoned debate.

Cookie_Monster

SimonMaher wrote: »

Another issue being raised is bus stop locations on the Sallyglen stretch. It has been suggested that new bus stops would be placed near enough to the traffic lights at either end of Sallyglen road (essentially replacing the Graduate stop and the stop outside Power City inbound and the Woodies and Graduate stops outbound).

are these not fixed because of where the pull in bays are already located or are the going to place more outside of these bays?

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

are these not fixed because of where the pull in bays are already located or are the going to place more outside of these bays?

There are only two pull in bays, beside the two pedestrian crossings along the road (centre section).

You would need at least a pair of stops towards either end of the road to replace stops close by where there are stops on the existing route.

Stephen15

I wonder now that 7 is no longer serving Blackrock Village and the 8 being cancelled meaning that Newtown Avenue will now be left without a bus service could this mean that perhaps the 84 will run along the old 7 routing to the station.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

There are only two pull in bays, beside the two pedestrian crossings along the road (centre section).

You would need at least a pair of stops towards either end of the road to replace stops close by where there are stops on the existing route.

4 stops in 1.4km is excessive.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

4 stops in 1.4km is excessive.

Well I will put it to you like this, as you clearly didn't examine where the stop locations are planned, and where the next/previous stops are on the existing route.

The locations of the bays along Sallyglen Road are at:

- Either side of access points to/from Arnold Grove & Park Close
- Either side of laneway at north end of Thomastown Road and access to/from Arnold Park.

Not putting a pair of stops towards the northern end of Sallyglen Road would mean that you would have the following gaps between bus stops:

- Outbound: A gap of 900m between outbound stops from the previous stop on Glenageary Road Lower;
- Inbound: 1km inbound to the next stop on Glenageary Road Lower.

The stops on Glenageary Road Lower are at the bottom of the hill. Are you seriously suggesting that older people who may be going to the post office should have to walk 400-500m uphill or along Sallyglen Road to get there?

Not putting a pair of stops towards the southern end of Sallyglen Road would mean there would be the following gaps between stops:

- Outbound: A gap of 700m to the next stop on Churchview Road
- Inbound: A gap of 650m between the previous stop on Church Road

Now I don't know about you, but I would consider those distances excessive. 400m is the ideal spacing between stops (per the TfL Bus Stop design manual), and those distances are excessive compared to that.

The exact quote from the Design Manual is:

An ideal spacing for bus stops is approximately 400m, although a closer spacing in town centres and residential areas may be necessary to meet passenger requirements.

You would be replacing 10 stops outbound and 9 inbound with 4 in either direction - I would view that as a significant improvement while still retaining connectivity at the main locations.

As Simon posted above, putting a pair of stops close to the southern end of Sallyglen Road would mean that Killiney Shopping Centre (a major traffic generator) remains still easily accessible rather than having people to negotiate the roundabout to get to the nearest stop.

This is a bus service, and it still has to serve the local communities, and putting stops adjacent to major traffic generators is part of that.

Stephen15

Does anyone have any idea when these changes will be operation.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea when these changes will be operation.

The consultation is ongoing until Friday 14th August.

After that they are going to have to sift through all of the submissions and then come up with final plans, incorporating any changes that become apparent, and then get approval from the NTA for them.

That, based on previous experience during the Network Direct review, could be months away because once the final plans are arrived at, then revised rosters have to be drawn up and agreed with staff.

I wouldn't bet on anything happening until mid/late Autumn or even the winter.

schemingbohemia

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder now that 7 is no longer serving Blackrock Village and the 8 being cancelled meaning that Newtown Avenue will now be left without a bus service could this mean that perhaps the 84 will run along the old 7 routing to the station.

You do know that the 7 will still operate beside Blackrock village, at most a hundred metres or so from it's current route, it's not really abandoning the village.
How many people do you think live along Newtown Avenue that couldn't walk to the village or the new route?

Stephen15

schemingbohemia wrote: »

You do know that the 7 will still operate beside Blackrock village, at most a hundred metres or so from it's current route, it's not really abandoning the village.
How many people do you think live along Newtown Avenue that couldn't walk to the village or the new route?

Im just making the point when pulled the 46a from Stillorgan Village they ran the 47 to fill the gap as a token gesture. Personally I think Blackrock Dart Station would be a far better terminus for the 84/a as its more central.

xper

Stephen15 wrote: »

Im just making the point when pulled the 46a from Stillorgan Village they ran the 47 to fill the gap as a token gesture. Personally I think Blackrock Dart Station would be a far better terminus for the 84/a as its more central.

The Dart Station is an obviously better terminus alright. I presume the reason it was not used when the 84 was first shifted to Blackrock is that there is barely enough room in the terminus lay by to accommodate buses from routes 17 and 114 as it is. I can't see that changing.

schemingbohemia

Got the 59 from Dalkey to DL for the first time in ages, as we got off at the last stop I was able to figure out that 1 person was on the bus before we got on! There were over a dozen who got on/off from Dalkey inbound.

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Got the 59 from Dalkey to DL for the first time in ages, as we got off at the last stop I was able to figure out that 1 person was on the bus before we got on! There were over a dozen who got on/off from Dalkey inbound.

The 59 is used all right all along the route, albeit to a lesser extent on the Killiney Hill loop.

OssianSmyth

Today is the last day to submit comments on this plan to Dublin Bus so make your voice heard!

send them by email to feedback@dublinbus.ie

OssianSmyth

I met with the NTA and with other councillors and executives yesterday. They are proposing to retain a service to Killiney village. They have taken on board fears of locating Sallyglen Rd bus stops next to isolated playing fields. They will retain some service through Sallynoggin that continues into the city. Some service will continue through Blackrock village in both directions.

Passenger numbers have apparently grown and there is an increased PSO subvention for next year.

They accepted that there are other ways they could employ to speed up services such as use of centre bus doors and that being more strict on reliability could improve the attractiveness of the service. I am looking for a bus Lane south of the Merrion Gates inbound and along Frascati Rd inbound. They said they are making more use of AVL data now to find bottlenecks

Cookie_Monster

sounds like they are, once again, caving to vested interests and retaining slower services rather than streamlining to the benefit of the majority. /sigh.

crushproof

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

sounds like they are, once again, caving to vested interests and retaining slower services rather than streamlining to the benefit of the majority. /sigh.

Seems like it alright, no surprise really. As usual the shrill and loud minority get their way while the rest of the travelling public suffer. And in the end revert to driving instead.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

sounds like they are, once again, caving to vested interests and retaining slower services rather than streamlining to the benefit of the majority. /sigh.

As yet we don't know how both Sallynoggin and Blackrock will be served - it could be that the buses currently operating a 75 minute frequency on route 8 could be reallocated to perhaps a re-introduced 7a service from the city centre to Sallynoggin (via Blackrock Village) to meet the needs of those residents, with the 7 and 7c operating directly along the Sallyglen Road.

I would suggest that wait and see would be the best approach before rushing to judgements.

Fratton Fred

The No 8 is to be abolished? That's a load more cars dropping kids off to school. The 8am one is practically full by the time it reaches Glenageary roundabout.

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The No 8 is to be abolished? That's a load more cars dropping kids off to school. The 8am one is practically full by the time it reaches Glenageary roundabout.

The 8am service was to be retained - I suspect that will still be the case.

schemingbohemia

Looks like 111 is half-replacing the 8, starting in Dalkey and going around the houses via DL and Upper Glenageary Road, Sallynoggin, Loughlinstown to Bride's Glen, would love to see an actual map of the route and timetable.

See Ossian's link for details.

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Looks like 111 is half-replacing the 8, starting in Dalkey and going around the houses via DL and Upper Glenageary Road, Sallynoggin, Loughlinstown to Bride's Glen, would love to see an actual map of the route and timetable.

See Ossian's link for details.

Here you go!

https://goo.gl/maps/xhjU8vgCZdF2

You forgot to add a double back in and out of Louglinstown Park.

I wouldn't say it's replacing the 8 to be honest - it's providing extra capacity between Dalkey and Dun Laoghaire and will make new local links. The 8 (apart from the 08:00 inbound service) was carrying thin air.

The 59 is reducing to hourly. Having the 111 start in Dalkey means there will be a half-hourly service between Dalkey and Dun Laoghaire.

The 111 will then also provide a link to Tesco on the Upper Glenageary Road from Sallynoggin, but becomes a dog's dinner of a route at the southern end, with two double backs (Loughlinstown Park and Loughlinstown Hospital) before terminating at Bride's Glen LUAS.

It'll be a simple clockface hourly service, using two buses.

Stephen15

The new 111 is mad it doesn't need to serve loughlinstown or cherrywood both served by the 7 and the 7a respectively it should just terminate at loughlinstown hospital.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

The new 111 is mad it doesn't need to serve loughlinstown or cherrywood both served by the 7 and the 7a respectively it should just terminate at loughlinstown hospital.

Not sure that Loughlinstown Hospital is viable as a terminus - a dual carriageway would not be a safe place for a bus to layover, nor would there be enough space at he stops for the bus laying over and other buses to serve the stops.

I'd have thought the 7b terminus at Shankill Church would be a better location for a terminus.

People need to remember that the whole raison d'etre of the 111, 63 and 59 is that they are local community bus services and as such they won't take the most direct route.

schemingbohemia

I'd have selfishly liked a more direct 111 to Bride's Glen, but I suppose for Dalkey it means a slight increase in frequency to Dun Laoghaire, every 30 minutes rather than 40.
Glad to see they're now using the Blackrock bypass inbound, finally!