Dublin Bus 7/59/111 Changes

the groutch

pity it's only for half the 7 buses

wahesh32

Do we know when the changes will actually take place?

LXFlyer

wahesh32 wrote: »

Do we know when the changes will actually take place?

Not yet.

SimonMaher

Interesting set of compromises there and I think most of them are pretty reasonable. The acceptance that work is needed on the infrastructure on Sallyglen Road is welcome and I think the redrawn 63 and 111 (despite the wanderings) will provide a decent local service. I would be slightly concerned that it the 7 and 7A are interworked, then the improvements in timings that would be expected for the more direct 7 may be defeated by the delays that the 7A (currently the 7) currently faces. The 59 appears to be back to it's original form from years ago - I wonder could it have trawled a bit more in it's area for punters?

On the 111, LXFlyer looking at your map: I presume that rather than being straight up and down Georges St (it's one way anyway!), that it will go down Marine Road, left on to Crofton Road (to take in the DART station) and up to York Road from there. That way it maintains it's station stops outside of the Town Hall and on Marine Road (although obviously now going the opposite direction). My head hurts.

Simon

xper

SimonMaher wrote: »

Interesting set of compromises there and I think most of them are pretty reasonable. ... I would be slightly concerned that it the 7 and 7A are interworked, then the improvements in timings that would be expected for the more direct 7 may be defeated by the delays that the 7A (currently the 7) currently faces. ...

The watering down of the original measures to make the 7 faster and more reliable is lamentable. It's appropriate that the public consultation has guided the local services changes but the interference of one small area's representatives in nullifying the changes to a trunk route to the city centre is a joke.

The current 7 operation can't maintain its 15 minute frequency a lot of the time. The proposed 7/7A arrangement actually builds uncertainty into the timetable with buses now going to alternate between slow and fast routings. It's an incredible "solution".

And unless there are extra rush hour departures on the new 7/7A timetable, the removal of the couple of route 8 departures will actually decrease rush hour capacity and frequency along the Rock Road corridor.

Vic_08

xper wrote: »

The watering down of the original measures to make the 7 faster and more reliable is lamentable. It's appropriate that the public consultation has guided the local services changes but the interference of one small area's representatives in nullifying the changes to a trunk route to the city centre is a joke.

It is the usual Irish approach. Have some experts draw up plans then invite the local Elected gombeens and any other special interest group to twist the plans to their liking so you get a mix of sensible, make do and utterly stupid.

xper wrote: »

The current 7 operation can't maintain its 15 minute frequency a lot of the time. The proposed 7/7A arrangement actually builds uncertainty into the timetable with buses now going to alternate between slow and fast routings. It's an incredible "solution".

There is no uncetainty. The 7 will be quicker than the 7A. By DL expect a regular 20min/10min gap, by Rock Road the 7 will be on top of the 7A.

xper wrote: »

And unless there are extra rush hour departures on the new 7/7A timetable, the removal of the couple of route 8 departures will actually decrease rush hour capacity and frequency along the Rock Road corridor.

7 frequency is too low, it should be 6 buses per hour at a minimum Mon-Sat.

the groutch

from people's experience, do a lot of people get on/off of the 45a on the stretch that it branches off from the 7?
servicing that stretch of road seems to be the main thing stopping the original plans from being put into action.

schemingbohemia

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The No 8 is to be abolished? That's a load more cars dropping kids off to school. The 8am one is practically full by the time it reaches Glenageary roundabout.

lxflyer wrote: »

The 8am service was to be retained - I suspect that will still be the case.

Was on the 8am 8 this morning, it was basically full as Fred says by Glenageary. Wonder how many kids will take a 59/111 to link up with a 7 or 46a now.

Also surprised how many of the kids were paying cash, pretty disappointing really.

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Was on the 8am 8 this morning, it was basically full as Fred says by Glenageary. Wonder how many kids will take a 59/111 to link up with a 7 or 46a now.

Also surprised how many of the kids were paying cash, pretty disappointing really.

They won't have to as I do not see that departure being cancelled - it's too busy.

schemingbohemia

But there's no 8 anymore! Unless they decide to bring in an additional 7D service at 8.

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

But there's no 8 anymore! Unless they decide to bring in an additional 7D service at 8.

The original proposal also saw the 8 being abolished except for that 08:00 departure.

I don't see that changing - I suspect that was an oversight in the document.

Fratton Fred

lxflyer wrote: »

The original proposal also saw the 8 being abolished except for that 08:00 departure.

I don't see that changing - I suspect that was an oversight in the document.

I hope so, my child gets that bus.

She's a leapcard user by the way!

Stephen15

Does anyone know when these are actually going to be implemented. Haven't heard anything for ages.

Larbre34

It's politically sensitive.

Of course Dublin Bus has the right to propose changes to improve its own efficiency, as it sees it, but historically bus route changes have been dynamite in the wider Dun Laoghaire area, and the local Councillors were very active on it lately (many of them now Dáil candidates) so Id be very surprised if anything actually changes ahead of the general election

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

Does anyone know when these are actually going to be implemented. Haven't heard anything for ages.

Change within DB/BE takes time - new schedules/rosters in particular can take time to be drawn up and agreed with the unions.

Also there may be additional vehicles required to deliver the service - there are lead times associated with that.

Stephen15

I was reading there today on the petition to keep the 7 in Sallynoggin facebook page that the bus stops on sallyglen road were in place and that the page would be shut down at midnight tonight and the changes are likely to be implemented in the coming weeks. Can anyone confirm this as I haven't been up that way lately?

punisher5112

New kerbs and stops near completion.

It will be in effect very soon by the looks of it.

dublinman1990

The good thing about this change is that the new 7A timetable will be a much better service now before the old 7A route was withdrawn by Dublin Bus.

The old 7A route barely had a service at the weekdays & no service in the weekends at all before it was withdrawn along with the original 8 route from Dalkey in the early 2000's. With the new 7A running every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday (with possibly the same frequency with the 7 on Sunday); it will be a huge improvement in service once it comes back in a few weeks time.

Stephen15

I don't think cancelling the 8 is very good idea leaving one bus to serve the schools what I would do instead is give a few more afternoon runs and maybe a few more later on in the evening weekdays only as I could not see such a service getting much on weekends from Dalkey to UCD via Booterstown Avenue.

It would

•It would give Dalkey, Glenageary and Monkstown which do not currently have a decent bus service to the UCD area other than the extremely low frequency 7d a decent enough service

•Give Booterstown Avenue which as long as I remember never had a service a bus it would benefit older people living in the area

•Provide extra capacity between UCD and Blackrock as an extra bus in addition to the 17 beefing up the the frequency

patrickbrophy18

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't think cancelling the 8 is very good idea leaving one bus to serve the schools what I would do instead is give a few more afternoon runs and maybe a few more later on in the evening weekdays only as I could not see such a service getting much on weekends from Dalkey to UCD via Booterstown Avenue.

It would

•It would give Dalkey, Glenageary and Monkstown which do not currently have a decent bus service to the UCD area other than the extremely low frequency 7d a decent enough service

•Give Booterstown Avenue which as long as I remember never had a service a bus it would benefit older people living in the area

•Provide extra capacity between UCD and Blackrock as an extra bus in addition to the 17 beefing up the the frequency

+1

Mind you, the turn onto Booterstown Avenue from the Rock Road is a tad on the sharp side at roughly 120º. Would it not make more sense to have it go up Mount Merrion Avenue instead?
Alternatively, it could use Cross Avenue from Mount Merrion Avenue to tie in with Sion Hill and the upper half of Booterstown Avenue.

Having said that, I doubt this ideal will ever come to fruition, certainly in the foreseeable future anyway. Nevertheless, I do think that Dalkey is being systematically turned into a silo in terms of accessibility. From tight roads to excessive conservation measures (preventing much needed vitality) to demand management (restricting considerable footfall increases) and moderate to low frequency bus routes. All this is doing is giving the denizens of the area even more of an excuse to continue using their cars. But, that's a topic for a different discussion.

Booterstown DART Station is right across the road from Booterstown Avenue meaning that no tight turns would be needed if a dedicated UCD feeder bus operated to and from the station. Just go straight up Booterstown Avenue and turn right at the very top towards UCD with Dundrum as a possible terminus.

caviardreams

There is a shuttle bus between Sydney Parade and UCD during term time run by a private operator - it obviously gets enough demand to continue running it.

http://ucdestates.ie/commuting/getting-here/shuttle/

Stephen15

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

+1

Mind you, the turn onto Booterstown Avenue from the Rock Road is a tad on the sharp side at roughly 120º. Would it not make more sense to have it go up Mount Merrion Avenue instead?
Alternatively, it could use Cross Avenue from Mount Merrion Avenue to tie in with Sion Hill and the upper half of Booterstown Avenue.

Having said that, I doubt this ideal will ever come to fruition, certainly in the foreseeable future anyway. Nevertheless, I do think that Dalkey is being systematically turned into a silo in terms of accessibility. From tight roads to excessive conservation measures (preventing much needed vitality) to demand management (restricting considerable footfall increases) and moderate to low frequency bus routes. All this is doing is giving the denizens of the area even more of an excuse to continue using their cars. But, that's a topic for a different discussion.

Booterstown DART Station is right across the road from Booterstown Avenue meaning that no tight turns would be needed if a dedicated UCD feeder bus operated to and from the station. Just go straight up Booterstown Avenue and turn right at the very top towards UCD with Dundrum as a possible terminus.

I don't such a service would need to go to Dundrum as it would just duplicate with the 17, UCD is also handy spot as it is near Donnybrook

Vic_08

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't think cancelling the 8 is very good idea leaving one bus to serve the schools what I would do instead is give a few more afternoon runs and maybe a few more later on in the evening weekdays only as I could not see such a service getting much on weekends from Dalkey to UCD via Booterstown Avenue.

It would

•It would give Dalkey, Glenageary and Monkstown which do not currently have a decent bus service to the UCD area other than the extremely low frequency 7d a decent enough service

•Give Booterstown Avenue which as long as I remember never had a service a bus it would benefit older people living in the area

•Provide extra capacity between UCD and Blackrock as an extra bus in addition to the 17 beefing up the the frequency

Booterstown Ave is narrow and choked up with parked cars, I wouldn't be putting a bus route on it.

Low frequency off-peak routes will not generate any significant traffic, the current 8 being a perfect example.

More crayon ideas from someone who hasn't a clue, how about you drop the fantasy bus route nonsense and leave the thread to the discussion of what is happening with the DL routes?

Stephen15

Vic_08 wrote: »

Booterstown Ave is narrow and choked up with parked cars, I wouldn't be putting a bus route on it.

Low frequency off-peak routes will not generate any significant traffic, the current 8 being a perfect example.

More crayon ideas from someone who hasn't a clue, how about you drop the fantasy bus route nonsense and leave the thread to the discussion of what is happening with the DL routes?

I can see where your coming from maybe the Booterstown Avenue idea was a bit stupid. I'm not exactly an expert but it seems that there would be a demand from schools and UCD for such a route. I'm not a fan of these one a day bus routes like the 7b/d as they are nearly always full meaning if you miss one or one is full your pretty much screwed.

schemingbohemia

Stephen15 wrote: »

I can see where your coming from maybe the Booterstown Avenue idea was a bit stupid. I'm not exactly an expert but it seems that there would be a demand from schools and UCD for such a route. I'm not a fan of these one a day bus routes like the 7b/d as they are nearly always full meaning if you miss one or one is full your pretty much screwed.

The 7d only gets full when it gets to the N11, if even then. Never failed to get on it in the city heading home. It gets a very significant number of school pupils and UCD staff and students.

The 7B has a few journeys in the evening and if it's full just hop on a 46a and switch at Bakers Corner.

patrickbrophy18

Vic_08 wrote: »

Booterstown Ave is narrow and choked up with parked cars, I wouldn't be putting a bus route on it.

Given that this is a link road between 2 heavily trafficked corridors and it's potential as a feeder route to Booterstown DART Station, buses should be operating along it. A feeder bus between it and Dundrum Town Center via Stillorgan could be a winner.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Low frequency off-peak routes will not generate any significant traffic, the current 8 being a perfect example.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Nobody will want to use a bus route with a handful of journeys per day or ones confined to peak times. I've often said it, frequency sells. There should be a minimum or benchmark level of service for bus routes operating in the suburbs. Perhaps, clock-face hourly?

Vic_08 wrote: »

More crayon ideas from someone who hasn't a clue, how about you drop the fantasy bus route nonsense and leave the thread to the discussion of what is happening with the DL routes?

We need to be a little more constructive about the topic instead of referring to suggestions as "crayon ideas" or "fantasy bus route nonsense" and claiming a poster "hasn't a clue". As this thread pertains to bus routes around the Dun Laoghaire burrough, I think the 8 route is relevant. I also share Stephen15's sentiment of a better level of service to UCD from the likes of Dalkey instead of the almost non-existent 7D route. It is also a very valid suggestion given that it hasn't been tried out properly.

EricPraline

Stephen15 wrote: »

I can see where your coming from maybe the Booterstown Avenue idea was a bit stupid. I'm not exactly an expert but it seems that there would be a demand from schools and UCD for such a route. I'm not a fan of these one a day bus routes like the 7b/d as they are nearly always full meaning if you miss one or one is full your pretty much screwed.

As noted above, there is already a private bus that goes from UCD to Sydney Parade Dart. But it only runs during rush hours in term time, since there is insufficient demand for it off-peak and during the summer.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Booterstown Ave is narrow and choked up with parked cars, I wouldn't be putting a bus route on it.

Agreed, it's just not suitable. It's a narrow congested road with many schools that leads to serious tailbacks in the mornings. At certain times you would probably be quicker walking from the Dart station to the 46A.

rubadub

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Nobody will want to use a bus route with a handful of journeys per day or ones confined to peak times.

I would like it if there was a guaranteed bus timetable (maybe this is what you mean by clock face hourly?). The aircoach from greystones only has 1 an hour, but it waits at the stops until the designated time. i.e. with dublin bus you get estimates at time tables and if you arrive just on time you do not know if it has come and gone already as there may have been little traffic. It might have those time display things on the bus stop but they are not very trustworthy, I have seen buses simply vanish off them.

However I know a bus waiting around at some stops would cause trouble.

Awaaf

New Bus Stop being built on Pottery Road between Lidl and Bakers. I guess it could be for the modified 63 route. Maybe things are about to happen?

Stephen15

Awaaf wrote: »

New Bus Stop being built on Pottery Road between Lidl and Bakers. I guess it could be for the modified 63 route. Maybe things are about to happen?

I have mixed emotions about the 63 changes. Part of me thinks it makes sense to have a good bus service on a newly widened road bit the other part of me thinks it's taking away a well used link on Clonkeen Road although most of Clonkeen Road is within walking distance of Pottery Road I'm sure more will walk up as far Deansgrange for 46a/75 to get to Dun Laoghaire.