Does it pay to do your own silage?

mf240

C0N0R wrote: »

Kind of a related question, is there a massive advantage to using a conditionor mower or for surplus bales is a normal disc mower sufficient? If it's going to be tedded does that make a difference? What I'm thinking is a disc mower that can be used for topping instead of the dreaded topper and also can be used for mowing surplus paddocks. First cut silage will be mowed by contractor with moco and second cut can be done by me or contractor. What I'm asking is do I need a conditionor or not?

No youd get away grand with a ordinary mower. Thats what i have and then its either raked or tedded then raked.

The mower a slurry tank a smallish dung spreader and a few bits is all i have.

Havent a clue about repairs so it wouldnt pay me to do my own silage.

Jb1989

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Is there a conditioner on the mower and how tight does it cut to the ground? Contractors seem to like not having to cut and it saves 3 euro a bale or so. They like the phone call with I have a few acres rowed up. You'd usually get a reply of I'll be passing later.

Contractors round here seem to rather mow themselves as if farmer mowed it they would spend the time giveing out about not being mowed to there likeing, too wide, too narrow, awkward corners, turning plots etc, and don't mention, rows done after a haybob, drives them mad, man I have now doesn't complain and that's why I have him.

farmerjj

Sam Kade wrote: »

For that acreage you would want to be buying new. It's very hard to pick up a good secondhand mower.

What hp would you need to drive a 10ft trailed mower with conditioner and grouper, would 125hps be enough?

cute geoge

farmerjj wrote: »

What hp would you need to drive a 10ft trailed mower with conditioner and grouper, would 125hps be enough?

Some mowers are harder drive
I have heard a contractor mowing silage flat out for years with 398
I guess you would be comfortable enough with 125hp

Zr105

farmerjj wrote: »

What hp would you need to drive a 10ft trailed mower with conditioner and grouper, would 125hps be enough?

Plenty of power! We were driving a 3m mounted moco on a 100hp 4pot for a couple of seasons!

il gatto

farmerjj wrote: »

What hp would you need to drive a 10ft trailed mower with conditioner and grouper, would 125hps be enough?

Loads. A six cylinder tractor is better than a four with turbo for that power though. It runs smoother and under less stress. A six cylinder will run that all day.

Sam Kade

twin_beacon wrote: »

good discussion.
we make around 350 bales a year, part time farm. We have our own drum mower that we really only use if we are making hay, it hasn't been used since 2013.

We dont make a pit, so I cant really comment on that end of things. For people making all bales like ourselves there are very few farms where it would be cost effective to make your own bales. There are many factors to consider, and not just the cost.
We are very lucky, we have a reliable contractor that makes very well packed bales. There is also competition between contractors, which is win win for the farmer.

Things to consider:
1. Cost of buying Baler + wrapper. Thats assuming you already own a mower and a tractor with enough horse power. Also, what can you get for your money.
2. What will the bales be like. A large contractor more than likely have a baler less than three years old, and know how to drive them correctly. They will also leave the swards in the condition they like when mowing to produce the best bale. Mchale balers seem to be everywhere now, they make a good well chopped, well packed bale if driven correctly. Can your baler with you at the controls make a bale as good as the contractor? will it be chopped as well? If not, you are in for a long winter for forking!
3. How many bales am I making to make it cost effective. this really depends on the gear you buy and how much you spend, and if you have to hire in extra labor. Don't forget to add in your own time here.
4. Knowledge of machinery. Do yo know the ins and outs of a mower, baler and wrapper? I'll throw my hands up and say I know nothing about them. If it goes wrong can you fix it, and how much will it cost?
5. Time management. This is the deciding factor for a lot of people, how long will it take to make the bales, and can they be made in a window without rain? If you are making bales over 2 days, the bales from day 1 have to be brought into the yard, this will delay the baling on day 2. However, that can be turned around, if your contractor is not reliable, you might well have a better chance of making your own bales before the rain!

In my local area, 2 medium/large farmers joined forces and bought a mower, baler and wrapper for their own use. Of course there are massive drawbacks to this too, but also advantages.

Round baling isn't the rocket science you make it out to be also mchale balers are not the be all and end all of baling silage. I've an rp12 baler that makes bricks of bales. A few years ago I had to get a contractor to finish baling when a bearing went in the rp12. He had a new john Deere baler, when feeding the John Deere bales fell apart and the rp12 bales couldn't be pulled apart without a lot of effort. That was even after the contractor baling in a low gear.

White Clover

Sam Kade wrote: »

Round baling isn't the rocket science you make it out to be also mchale balers are not the be all and end all of baling silage. I've an rp12 baler that makes bricks of bales. A few years ago I had to get a contractor to finish baling when a bearing went in the rp12. He had a new john Deere baler, when feeding the John Deere bales fell apart and the rp12 bales couldn't be pulled apart without a lot of effort. That was even after the contractor baling in a low gear.

The Deere bales were chopped I bet. Thats why they fell apart. Surely you can't be saying that an rp12 is a better baler than a JD 578 or 644 ?

9935452

White Clover wrote: »

The Deere bales were chopped I bet. Thats why they fell apart. Surely you can't be saying that an rp12 is a better baler than a JD 578 or 644 ?

The only way of comparing them is to weigh them.
But i would agree a well chopped bale will fall apart .
The man driving the deere may not have had the density turned all the way up.

welton john

Sam Kade wrote: »

Round baling isn't the rocket science you make it out to be also mchale balers are not the be all and end all of baling silage. I've an rp12 baler that makes bricks of bales. A few years ago I had to get a contractor to finish baling when a bearing went in the rp12. He had a new john Deere baler, when feeding the John Deere bales fell apart and the rp12 bales couldn't be pulled apart without a lot of effort. That was even after the contractor baling in a low gear.

But for every 3 bales the rp12 makes a contractors baler will make two or less. What about all your extra expense drawing, plastic,stacking ect?

Sam Kade

welton john wrote: »

But for every 3 bales the rp12 makes a contractors baler will make two or less. What about all your extra expense drawing, plastic,stacking ect?

There's 20% more in the mchale bale compared to the rp12 so that would be more like 2.4 mchale bales = 3 rp12 bales. Around 20 bales extra in every 100 it's hardly going to cost more to make if you own the baler over a contractor.

mahoney_j

Only reading bits of this but can't fathom how some think by making their own silage there saving a fortune .firstly you've to keep a load of rapidly depreciating assets(tractors,balers ,wrappers )secondly very little of yet are valuing yer own time for this work,many ye like working for nothing!!.thirdly any dairy farmer attempting this has more than enough to do through May and June like heat detection,dosing calves milking etc etc without the added load of giving hours in a tractor .fourth you carry the risk of all the repairs and martinance
I now and tedd myself when it suits for bales and contractor mows and pits for main cut.bales cost me 6 euro to bale ,8 euro an acre to rake and 2.70 for plastic.pit costs 100 an acre in pit.i don't have to look at machines sitting idle in a shed for most of year ,carry no risk for breakdowns etc.contractor provides great service,that's his game ,cows and stock are mine.

welton john

Sam Kade wrote: »

There's 20% more in the mchale bale compared to the rp12 so that would be more like 2.4 mchale bales = 3 rp12 bales. Around 20 bales extra in every 100 it's hardly going to cost more to make if you own the baler over a contractor.

No doubt you save a few pound but making 500 of them bales a year is 100 extra bales to feed for the winter.If the bales are packed as much as you say and unchopped I'd hate to be going near them with a fork not to mind messing with twine instead of net,then extra time spent feeding and diesel burned and more plastic to dispose of.I'd rather spend a few pound extra and have an easier winter

Sam Kade

welton john wrote: »

No doubt you save a few pound but making 500 of them bales a year is 100 extra bales to feed for the winter.If the bales are packed as much as you say and unchopped I'd hate to be going near them with a fork not to mind messing with twine instead of net,then extra time spent feeding and diesel burned and more plastic to dispose of.I'd rather spend a few pound extra and have an easier winter

I use a shear grab split the bales in half leaving the plastic and twines on top just pull them off after. I can feed 40 cows in 20 minutes.

il gatto

mahoney_j wrote: »

Only reading bits of this but can't fathom how some think by making their own silage there saving a fortune .firstly you've to keep a load of rapidly depreciating assets(tractors,balers ,wrappers )secondly very little of yet are valuing yer own time for this work,many ye like working for nothing!!.thirdly any dairy farmer attempting this has more than enough to do through May and June like heat detection,dosing calves milking etc etc without the added load of giving hours in a tractor .fourth you carry the risk of all the repairs and martinance
I now and tedd myself when it suits for bales and contractor mows and pits for main cut.bales cost me 6 euro to bale ,8 euro an acre to rake and 2.70 for plastic.pit costs 100 an acre in pit.i don't have to look at machines sitting idle in a shed for most of year ,carry no risk for breakdowns etc.contractor provides great service,that's his game ,cows and stock are mine.

A lot of people inherit machines from before contractors were the norm I suppose. Most farms would have a haybob and mower and obviously tractors. If you buy secondhand, you don't need massive amounts tied up and if you maintain them properly, they'll hold some value. Most depreciation is the first year.
Some people haven't analysed the maths closely enough and some have but want the control of doing it themselves. And obviously for people who are not milking, it's more doable.
And I think a lot of people actually enjoy it. They like driving big, noisy machines around and leaving a lovely bare field. High point of the year for some, to knock off the tractor, get out and sit on the front wheel and admire the meadow in the dusk. Even more so with square bales of hay. Ham sandwiches, lukewarm tea and a glass of shandy with Smithwicks and TK red lemonade. People are like that sometimes.

kevthegaff

Brother and i had to draw in friday, he mowed also as the contravtor wanted experience drivers on the hills, novelty but wouldnt like to be at it more than 1 day, 2 of us also had to get guys to milk for us. We used to cut here ourselves 10 yrs ago, cat 910 pushing up, 2x110-90s mowing and drawing in. 4 brothers doing it. It was grand then but dont have the drivers anymore. how much is it for a tractor drawing in now?

C0N0R

kevthegaff wrote: »

Brother and i had to draw in friday, he mowed also as the contravtor wanted experience drivers on the hills, novelty but wouldnt like to be at it more than 1 day, 2 of us also had to get guys to milk for us. We used to cut here ourselves 10 yrs ago, cat 910 pushing up, 2x110-90s mowing and drawing in. 4 brothers doing it. It was grand then but dont have the drivers anymore. how much is it for a tractor drawing in now?

€5 an acre is a figure that comes to mind

il gatto

kevthegaff wrote: »

Brother and i had to draw in friday, he mowed also as the contravtor wanted experience drivers on the hills, novelty but wouldnt like to be at it more than 1 day, 2 of us also had to get guys to milk for us. We used to cut here ourselves 10 yrs ago, cat 910 pushing up, 2x110-90s mowing and drawing in. 4 brothers doing it. It was grand then but dont have the drivers anymore. how much is it for a tractor drawing in now?

I've noticed people aren't as inclined to help any more. Used to be brothers and uncles etc. would all help but between not having the time and I suppose, the realisation that if himself is inheriting the farm, why should I spend all day at work and then come home a spend all evening at work as well?
Drawing in depends on how far it has to be drawn I'd say.

emaherx

There has been a lot of talk here of expensive machinery and depreciation.

We do all of our own silage/hay making using old machines, many of them have been around longer than I have.
We have a 5'6 New Holland Disc mower must be at least 40 years old (on farm since before I was born).
Two PZ Haybobs also close to 40 years old (one has been on farm since before I was born).
An 8'6 Disc mower 15years old (Bought New, a rare thing around here).
Class 46 nearly 20 years old (bought second hand about 10 years ago)
Mchale 991BJS nearly 20 years old (bought second hand about 10 years ago).
These are simple machines and easy to maintain. They are probably worth the same now or possibly even more than we had paid for them originally.

The main tractors that we use for bailing/mowing are a 4WD 390T (20 year old tractor) which is still holding its value well (some might argue too well) and a 4WD 698T (over 30 years old) which is just as capable and they are available for very small money.

We make hay/silage when it suits us, if there is a small window in the weather we are not waiting around for contractors to Finnish off other peoples fields. Also could be argued that our light weight machines are not damaging land as much as some big contractors tractors that are pulling huge fusion type combo balers:D.

Maintenance/Repairs are carried out by ourselves, which can at times be challenging.
There is no money owed on any of the machines and they were acquired over a very long time. If I was to spend money in the near future I would probably buy a single rotor rake.

Hard to put a value on your time........... but I actually like driving around in circles for hours at a time and fixing old machinery. Might be a bit mad, but hay its in my jeans

We don't have a chopper baler, but I would need a bigger tractor to drive one comfortably and I have never found not having chopped bales to be an issue, I just drop bales in front of feeders and let cattle eat them then push them in when they can't reach, never have I found the need to fork them around with a pitch fork.

Dose it pay to your own silage? I think it dose but I suppose every situation is different and like mentioned before, if you don't feel comfortable with a spanner forget it!

Zr105

emaherx wrote: »

There has been a lot of talk here of expensive machinery and depreciation.

We do all of our own silage/hay making using old machines, many of them have been around longer than I have.
We have a 5'6 New Holland Disc mower must be at least 40 years old (on farm since before I was born).
Two PZ Haybobs also close to 40 years old (one has been on farm since before I was born).
An 8'6 Disc mower 15years old (Bought New, a rare thing around here).
Class 46 nearly 20 years old (bought second hand about 10 years ago)
Mchale 991BJS nearly 20 years old (bought second hand about 10 years ago).
These are simple machines and easy to maintain. They are probably worth the same now or possibly even more than we had paid for them originally.

The main tractors that we use for bailing/mowing are a 4WD 390T (20 year old tractor) which is still holding its value well (some might argue too well) and a 4WD 698T (over 30 years old) which is just as capable and they are available for very small money.

We make hay/silage when it suits us, if there is a small window in the weather we are not waiting around for contractors to Finnish off other peoples fields. Also could be argued that our light weight machines are not damaging land as much as some big contractors tractors that are pulling huge fusion type combo balers:D.

Maintenance/Repairs are carried out by ourselves, which can at times be challenging.
There is no money owed on any of the machines and they were acquired over a very long time. If I was to spend money in the near future I would probably buy a single rotor rake.

Hard to put a value on your time........... but I actually like driving around in circles for hours at a time and fixing old machinery. Might be a bit mad, but hay its in my jeans

We don't have a chopper baler, but I would need a bigger tractor to drive one comfortably and I have never found not having chopped bales to be an issue, I just drop bales in front of feeders and let cattle eat them then push them in when they can't reach, never have I found the need to fork them around with a pitch fork.

Dose it pay to your own silage? I think it dose but I suppose every situation is different and like mentioned before, if you don't feel comfortable with a spanner forget it!

I'd get someone in to try out a single rotor rake before going for it, strange thing for me to say as I despise anything smaller after getting used to the big swarth but when you've a non chopper 46 you might have a bit of a job gettin the swarth to start into the chamber and start forming as there's nothing there to pull in the big volume of grass if you get me,

emaherx

Zr105 wrote: »

I'd get someone in to try out a single rotor take before going for it, strange thing for me to say as I despise anything smaller after getting used to the big swarth but when you've a non chopper 46 you might have a bit of a job gettin the swarth to start into the chamber and start forming as there's nothing there to pull in the big volume of grass if you get me,

You could be right, I wouldn't purchase anything without trying one first. Could definitely do with something bigger than standard haybob, perhapse a haybob 300 would be more appropriate.

Zr105

emaherx wrote: »

You could be right, I wouldn't purchase anything without trying one first. Could definitely do with something bigger than standard haybob, perhapse a haybob 300 would be more appropriate.

Im not to sure it may get on ok, but I would rather try it first if ya get me, we're flyin in hay with a 46chopper after the big rake, but I do remember having to be careful when following a neighbours standard 46 in straw after 20ft combine, had to go slow and make sure bale had started or you'd be shaking it back out by hand...

twin_beacon

Sam Kade wrote: »

Round baling isn't the rocket science you make it out to be also mchale balers are not the be all and end all of baling silage. I've an rp12 baler that makes bricks of bales. A few years ago I had to get a contractor to finish baling when a bearing went in the rp12. He had a new john Deere baler, when feeding the John Deere bales fell apart and the rp12 bales couldn't be pulled apart without a lot of effort. That was even after the contractor baling in a low gear.

But the idea of modern balers is that is falls apart when you start feeding, due to the chop length. If our contractor went back to using a non chopper baler like the Krone's they used in the 1990s, they would lose most of their business.
Im not saying the McHale is the be all and end all, we used to have bales made by a Krone round pack for many years, made great bales. However, the McHale F550 and Fusion are the most popular modern balers and combos for contractors in Ireland, in the 1990s in our area it was all krone with one contractor running a pair of RP12s. Now, I think 2 contractors run welgers, the rest are McHale. My point was that if somebody is going to move from bales made from a modern baler to making their own, they are not going to buy a non chopper bailer, they will go for a modern one, which are a lot more complicated to operate and maintain.

Sam Kade wrote: »

I use a shear grab split the bales in half leaving the plastic and twines on top just pull them off after. I can feed 40 cows in 20 minutes.

we dont have a shear grab as we use all bales. we feed with the dung bucket, take the plastic and net off the bales, then feed it with the dung bucket. My dad started doing this last year as his hips are not in great condition. its a real saver of time and labor, we should have been doing it for years!

out of curiosity, do you have a slatted shed? If so, how do you find using non chopped bales? When our bales were not well chopped, or if we use hay, we found that when cows pulled silage onto the slats they blocked the slats, and also resulted in lumps in the slurry. We are trying to get into GLAS, which favors trailing shoe over splash plate for slurry. we sometimes use the umbilical system for the slurry. lumps going through an umbilical or trailing shoe are not ideal!

coolshannagh28

Does it pay to make silage at all ?

F.D

i don't think it pays to do all of your own silage, but We bought a non conditioner mower 2 years ago, its the best investment on the farm by far 9 foot cut works on our 90hp tractor, our grass quality has never been as good we get all first cut done by the contractor from mowing to the pit,
and then i use our own mower for taking out paddocks and topping
there is loads of people around with balers so i dont see the need or have the time to use one, as mentioned earlier i might buy a small single rotor rake to make a bigger swath for the baler man because the haybob rows in light grass make it harder for him to fill out the bale.
One thing i think people who make there own baled silage forget to cost is the wear and tear of moving drawing bales and stacking them there is serious weight on front loaders and axles and if your not fond of a grease gun something is going to give

td5man

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Does it pay to make silage at all ?

If you could guarantee quality you'd probably buy cheaper than making your own.