Cruel reality of life for Gardai

Sam Kade

eisen1968 wrote: »

Sam Kade Cornflakes expensive so Garda should have no problem buying proper food instead. That's Your perception of this argument. Your saying if a Garda can afford cornflakes he can also afford proper food. That is incredible, if that is in fact how you actually perceive this argument. Maybe i'm, wrong but that is how it reads. I suggest you lie down for the remainder of your existence on this planet and stay down.

No he should ditch the cornflakes then buy proper food or if he's on a very tight budget eat porridge @ 7 cent a bowl and more nutrition than cornflakes.

What age are you 12?

Crooked Jack

Perhaps this explains why a disproportionate amount of them, in my experience anyway, have been massive arseholes

Dan_Solo

mariaalice wrote: »

 barley getting by

You're taking the cereal thing far too ceriously.

Dan_Solo

the_syco wrote: »

Do the people on the dole still get bottles thrown at their face, and blood spat at them?

Often the blood gets there from "fell down a stairs" or "hit his head off the car door" in the first place, doesn't it?

Sam Kade

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Perhaps this explains why a disproportionate amount of them, in my experience anyway, have been massive arseholes

So you believe that story.

whatdoicare

I have a mortgage, husband and kid and I'm living on a hell of a lot less than Garda poor mouth there. I eat proper meals, drive a car with petrol in it and even get the odd night out! I even get to sleep in my own bed!

WTF is this fella doing with his money?? Is it gold leaf cereal he's eating? He'd want to cop on and stop trying to do his weekly shop in M&S and go to Aldi like the rest of us. :rolleyes:

Or is this like the Sargeant from a while back who was poor mouthing while living in a six bedroom house and putting his kids through private school while driving around in a brand new merc?

I call massive BS on this story.

Kermit.de.frog

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Perhaps this explains why a disproportionate amount of them, in my experience anyway, have been massive arseholes

Comes from South Armagh, "experience" with the guards eh? Tell us more. Don't tease us.

jimgoose

I don't know about the money end of it - as pointed out earlier in this thread, a Garda with ten years on the job is reasonably well-paid - but the cause of the rest of that man's woes can be traced directly to the shower in Leinster House.

MajorMax

Pocoyo wrote: »

The gardai want a bigger piece of the pie after all they are the ones doing Enda Kenny's dirty work.
Shower of morons attending meter installations over serious crime its pathetic,You'd imagine some form
of moral objection would enter their heads they dont give a **** about their duty to the public.

I'm only suprised it took 29 posts before some mouth breather raised that issue, it has become the Irish version of Godwin's law***




***if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

jimgoose

MajorMax wrote: »

I'm only suprised it took 29 posts before some mouth breather raised that issue, it has become the Irish version of Godwin's law***...

This particular mouth-breather is more inclined to agree with that poster than not.

RealCorkLanger

eisen1968 wrote: »

Point is, we don't look after our own in this country. That Garda is eating cornflakes because his taxes and yours and mine were spent on entertaining Germans as they got off a cruise ship. How much do we owe again?

How do you know taxes were spent on that?Would it not be more likely that it was something paid for and arranged by the cruise ship company?

dr.fuzzenstein

jimgoose wrote: »

This particular mouth-breather is more inclined to agree with that poster than not.

I've seen posts by that poster you're inclined to agree with. I'm inclined not to. In general. Gardai wouldn't have to attend meter installations in any other country and most police forces of the world don't have the luxury which duties they may pick and choose from according to their personal tastes and I don't envy them having to attend protests by what is, let's face it, a looney fringe who are just looking for an excuse. I couldn't do it, because if someone got in my face, screaming "PEACUFUL PROTEST!!!" directly in my face, I might crack my baton over his thick skull and unemployed ass and damn the consequences, as long as I really get the bastard so good, he won't forget it in a hurry. Just look at them, I don't see many fully paid up and contributing members of society on those protests.

Back on topic:
I don't envy the Gardai their job, I wouldn't want to do it and I don't think I could control my temper when dealing with some of the fruitcakes they deal with. I think they're reasonably paid and if they can't manage on their money, it's not the state's fault. I have a house, a mortgage, a partner who currently is self employed but not pulling in any significant money, commute 60k each way to work every day and I don't even clear 2.5 a month. I don't live in massive luxury, but I manage just fine. So for someone on €40k to complain is, literally, a bit rich.
Only in ireland do you see people who earn twice the Euro average actually jump up and down, furious at the unfair hardship and poverty foisted upon them. We really should implement a policy of "If you don't like it, fcuk off", it is a free country after all and if you think you can top your civil servant salary, iron-clad guaranteed job and gold-plated pension in the private sector, well? What you waiting for? Untold riches await you!"

Crooked Jack

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Comes from South Armagh, "experience" with the guards eh? Tell us more. Don't tease us.

Sure Im right on the border, i spend half my time in Louth and Monaghan. Travel round the country a lot, too.
Although Im fully prepared to admit that of all the guards out there i've met only a tiny proportion and could just have been consistently unlucky.

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I've seen posts by that poster you're inclined to agree with. I'm inclined not to. In general. Gardai wouldn't have to attend meter installations in any other country and most police forces of the world don't have the luxury which duties they may pick and choose from according to their personal tastes and I don't envy them having to attend protests by what is, let's face it, a looney fringe who are just looking for an excuse...

Oh I agree, they go where they're sent and rightly so. My issue is with some of the things they're sent to, the priorities of the current administration, if you will. :pac:

Boom_Bap

MOD NOTE - eisen1968 - I've deleted a handful of your posts that are not adding any value to the discsussion, if you need to post, post at least something worth discussing rather than jabs and insults at the Gardaí.

eisen1968

Ok but just to let you know, cornflakes are off the menu in Templemore.

il gatto

Heard on the radio a few years ago that we have the best paid police in Europe with the lowest rate of solving serious crime. Make of that what you will.

Gazzmonkey

il gatto wrote: »

Heard on the radio a few years ago that we have the best paid police in Europe with the lowest rate of solving serious crime. Make of that what you will.

I always thought they were extremely well paid, with one Garda bragging to me during a raid that they get about a grand a week starting off !!!

I would be most pleased to hear that they get much less than that

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I always thought they were extremely well paid, with one Garda bragging to me during a raid that they get about a grand a week starting off !!!

I would be most pleased to hear that they get much less than that

They never got a grand starting off at any point in time. Junior guards who've passed out are getting about 350-400 a week.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

joe swanson

Wouldn't do their job no matter what I was offered.

Thankless task putting up with the scum of the earth and people only too willing to criticize ie regular Garda bashing threads like this.

They deserve a lot of respect for what they do.

T-K-O

Nobody forced these guys to become gaurds, like many public servants they sought out the position for the benefits.

il gatto

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They never got a grand starting off at any point in time. Junior guards who've passed out are getting about 350-400 a week.

Isn't that after tax. And before allowances. So realistically heading towards €30000 a year at the age of 21/22 in your first job.
And the increments kick in within a couple of years. And a job for life. And the GRA whinging on your behalf for every penny they can get. And of course there's a tidy pension at the end.
What exactly are their expectations in life? Because it seems a pretty sweet deal.

il gatto

joe swanson wrote: »

Wouldn't do their job no matter what I was offered.

Thankless task putting up with the scum of the earth and people only too willing to criticize ie regular Garda bashing threads like this.

They deserve a lot of respect for what they do.

They weren't conscripted. They weighed up the job against the benefits and signed up.
There wouldn't be as many Garda bashing threads if there was less whining in the media about their "plight". Like the mammy last year who's son slept in his car because he couldn't afford the petrol to come home. €400 a week in his pocket, living at home and no petrol? Either he had a gambling problem or he was shacked up with a girl (or guy) he didn't want mammy to know about.

dr.fuzzenstein

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It is not hard when you make everything a "civil matter".

This had to be said again. So there it is.

Mr_Muffin

40k+ a year is fantastic money if you manage it appropriately.

I've started a new job in recent weeks and won't be on anything close to the after tax take home pay of any guard. I'm also not get a rent allowance or generous benefits and yet I've worked out that I can be quite comfortable off. Anyone who is taking home a guard wage and looking for sympathy because they have to ear cereal (which is rather expensive when compared to other foods) and sleeping in their car is either lying through their teeth or has huge out goings that they have mismanaged

mynamejeff

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I always thought they were extremely well paid, with one Garda bragging to me during a raid that they get about a grand a week starting off !!!

I would be most pleased to hear that they get much less than that

get raided often do ya ? lol

Geuze

1800 wrote: »

I know older teachers on figures around 100k and over

No teacher in Ireland earns 100k in wages.

60k is possible, maybe 65k.

You'd want to be doing a huge amount of grinds, 1,000 of them, to then add 35k income extra.

Geuze

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

40k+ a year is fantastic money if you manage it appropriately.

Given that 36k is average earnings, I would not call 40k "fantastic".

It won't go far if you have a mortgage / childcare / Dublin rents / kids, etc.

Geuze

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml


Payscales for 2013.

Potential-Monke

I love how the article touches on nearly every aspect of being a Garda, but everyone concentrates on the cereal... Yes, stupid comment, but this entire thread is focusing on the stupidest part of the article, and not the whole of it.

Anyway...

Ray Palmer wrote: »

He seems very worried about being caught doing something. There really isn't anything I do while working that I would get fired for. What is he doing?

Gardai have to make a split second decision in very trying, sometimes dangerous, circumstances. This decision, whatever it may be, or however it may happen (intent could be x, but y happens), can then be judged by everyone who suddenly have BA's in Criminal Law, and can take all the time in the world to decide if it was right or wrong. That's what he's worried about. Imagine if he's intervening in a fight, he knows what he has to do, he knows the laws being broken, he knows his powers of arrest and detention. He goes to grab one lads arm with the intent of pulling him away/arresting him. Instead of it going smoothly, the guy whips his arm and the Garda's hand flys into the face of the other guy. Police Brutality. GSOC investigation. Months of worrying if you may lose your job or even go to jail. That's what he's worried about.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I dont believe that aul guff for a second

most gardai i know have a few properties and do nixers on the side

Most Gardai i know (quite a few) have one property. And who doesn't do nixers? Got the skills? Know someone who needs help? Few quid for the help. Sorted. Problem? Although, most Gardai i know don't do nixers. I've said it so it must be true. :rolleyes:

1800 wrote: »

Go ahead then buddy theres **** all stopping you quitting your job and going on it.

Actually, if you quit without good reason, you're not eligible for the dole for quite some time.

wp_rathead wrote: »

Aye, New teachers, nurses, social care and Gardaí (dunno about Fire Service tbh) are getting screwed alright - the unions (who supposed to protect workers) completely sold them out and have created a two tier environment in these sectors..

Difference is that the Gardai don't have a union. They have a representative association. Looks the same, but has no legal powers like unions have. It was challenged in the EU courts last year. Won the right to strike and to form as a union. Irish Government still giving them the 2 finger salute.

And i don't know if i could call it screwing the newbies. Think about it. Cuts were needed, and the main priority was preventing as much as possible from being taken from the then current membership. Part of the negotiations took the form of reduced wages and allowances for any potential new recruits, instead of another cut to current members wages. The Government was also stopping recruitment. So worked out for the current serving members as their wages were not cut more. Predictions were that no more recruitment would start until the recession was over, and by then they will be in a position to talk and get new recruits wages restored. Didn't work out like that, but it was the best decision for the current members. The GRA haven't forgotten this, but are only now possibly getting the bargaining power (backed by EU courts) to restore new recruits wages. It's just that recruitment started back before Union status was achieved/recession was over (and that's due to mass resignation and retirement, not the end of the recession).

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I always thought they were extremely well paid, with one Garda bragging to me during a raid that they get about a grand a week starting off !!!

I would be most pleased to hear that they get much less than that

They do. They may earn €1k a week (back in the "good days" when overtime was a given, 100+ hours a month OT). What he probably meant was that it averaged that, because the basic starting wage (prior to the new rates) would get you not too near €1k a week, but with 100+ hours OT, plus the weekly wage, the "big cheque" (allowances paid once a month) had potential to be massive, possibly averaging out at €1k a week. Then tax it. Roughly 49%-51% gone, depending on tax brackets and what extra benefits you might be paying in to (injury cover - high likelihood, mortgage protection, other stuff which is not necessary but highly recommended due to the level of danger/potential for injury in the job).

Problem is, Gardai are not allowed defend themselves. They're not allowed identify themselves as Gardai in any public forum, be it online or in person, unless they want to execute their duty (yes, we all know they flash the badge to get free into a nightclub, build a bridge). As such, there's no one to defend them except relatives or friends of Gardai. Small amount of people if you think about it. Anyway, because of this, people think it's this secret society with all hush hush conversations. To a degree, it is. Because of public scrutiny, every public speech or talk has to be perfect in every sense, because you can't offend anyones religion, sex, ethnicity, etc, etc. It's not just a person talking, it's an organisation, and as such there's massive room for people to sue, which as we all knows is quickly becoming the "thing" to do.

Add to this that discipline awaits anyone who breaks the silence, because it's a breach of some code to identify yourself as a Garda online. Truth may be spoken, lies may be told, but regardless that member is open to discipline. So that's why you don't get Gardai on here defending their actions, be it individual or collective. That's why they have to "rely" on anonymous articles from "serving members". I'm sure we've all seen someone, at some stage, identify themselves as one, and usually rarely to be heard from again. Possibly due to making a mistake, and cancelling the account. Possibly due to the level of bullying i've seen on here (sticks and stones may break bones, but words can be even more hurtful). Maybe, just maybe, they got in bother in work. Who knows?!

Anyway, continue with the bashing, ye always do (except the few who are actually willing to listen and debate, rather than accuse and roast).

uch

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Anyway, continue with the bashing, ye always do (except the few who are actually willing to listen and debate, rather than accuse and roast).

100%, Civil & Public servants are dirt in the eye's of you're average joe soap PM, or so were led to believe by the moaners

il gatto

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-earns-extra-41000-as-bill-for-overtime-tops-40m-29207111.html

I know people who spent 5 years getting a masters to start on €20,000. The article states that Garda salaries start at €26,000. That's gross but doesn't include overtime or any allowances, of which there are many. €4,000 rent allowance, unvouched for, tax free and indeed pensionable. After 32 weeks training it's €23,171. That's the same as one college year. All in, I'd be very suprised if there's a guard earning less than €30,000, some of which is untaxed.
Yes, it can be dangerous. So can being a bouncer, a bike courier, a builder. Most dangerous job in the country is farming. But people know this when they sign up. If they didn't want to do it, don't. Leave (ha!). There's thousands of young lads waiting in the wings who also know it may be dangerous sometimes and are willing to do it for the money.
The GRA are like most unions. Justifying their being by telling their members how they're being screwed and they deserve better. Anyone near or above the "average annual earnings" as the CSO now term it, of €33,500ish and is having money troubles has mismanaged their finances. That is irrefutable. The nature of this figure is that there's more below than above it. For every person earning 20k over, there's two earning 10k less. If you squander money, live above your means or invest unwisely, that's your own look out. The state has weighed up your job and put a monetary value on it. Most would say quite a generous one. Don't like it, try your hand at something else.
It is all optics for the inevitable pay rise. Unfortunately the unions (GRA included) have brainwashed their members in preparing the ground.

Dan_Solo

Fred Swanson wrote: »

And considerably less when in Templemore.

And? Why would they get a proper wage while in training? Does anybody? Not a point at all really.

Dan_Solo

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It is not hard when you make everything a "civil matter".

Or as was the case a few years back when a guy had his passport stolen by nightclub staff "not interested, go find a lawyer".

Jon Stark

Deleted User wrote: »

People saying they can survive on less, would you be willing to swap jobs with them? If the answer is no, then it means they earn either the right amount or nowhere near enough.

I wouldn't do the job because I wouldn't be interested.

It's one of those jobs I like to describe as a vocation. Not everyone can do it. The few rather than the majority are suited to it.

What I would expect though from people who decide to go down that career path is to walk into it with eyes fully open. It's not a job that's meant to be easy, nor a job that that automatically comes with a nice salary.

It's an unbelievably hard job, but it was never meant to be anything else. That's why for me personally I get tired of hearing these constant gripes about salary.

That being said, as I said, it is an unbelievably hard job and I think the force should be looked after with good benefits.

ibstar

Star are trying to win the best short fiction novel of the year?

snubbleste

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I love how the article touches on nearly every aspect of being a Garda, but everyone concentrates on the cereal... .......

Eh, the cereal is the most important part. It appears to be a common denominator in 'Woe is the Garda' media articles :cool:

seamus

Geuze wrote: »

No teacher in Ireland earns 100k in wages.

60k is possible, maybe 65k.

You'd want to be doing a huge amount of grinds, 1,000 of them, to then add 35k income extra.

That's not strictly true. A principal in a small/midsize school (20 teachers), with 25 years experience and a degree will be in receipt of around €90k basic. Not including any grinds or other work done outside the school year.

MagTuired

I wouldn't be too worried in something I read about in the Star. Wouldn't be a very good indicator of reality (luckily).

And yes, lads, there's some miserable and corrupt Gardai out there, and yes we've seen videos of bullies pushing around protesters and abusing their power. There's some moaners out there too.

But consider the extent of their power: I for one am glad that we have to deal with petty corruption rather than the type of militarized, highly-strung, trigger happy, sometimes super corrupt, often racist police force over in the States. It would be an entirely different type of video if you replaced those guards in those protest videos with the LAPD or NYPD. I'm not saying this contrast makes our system infallible of the rank and file saints, if you feel the system needs to be fixed, by all means challenge it - but Jaysus, keep it in perspective.

I've been pulled over in the states, and I've been stopped here. At least here I never felt like I was an insect that could be stepped on at any moment if I felt out of line: "YESSIR!" "RIGHT AWAY SIR!".

Thank feck for an unarmed police force.

sbsquarepants

snubbleste wrote: »

TheStar - Cruel reality of life for Gardai

Previous 80 page thread Garda Sergeant can't afford food

My heart bleeds. Get another job, problem solved. Fúcking whingers.
Sleeping in the car so they'll have petrol to get to work - I've seldom heard such bollox!

HamsterFace

seamus wrote: »

That's not strictly true. A principal in a small/midsize school (20 teachers), with 25 years experience and a degree will be in receipt of around €90k basic. Not including any grinds or other work done outside the school year.

Yes but a principals work is much different than a teachers, they will need to work long hours and will not take even close to the same holidays.
I don't really think it can be considered a teaching job

doulikeit

Just woundering if these jobs are open to everyone why dont you go and do them im not moaning I have a good job and worked hard to get where I am but if a teacher can earn 100k per annum and a guard can earn 65k go and do it, just seems bitter sometimes people moaning about occupations that are open to them but they dont avail of them why is that. Sorry op for going of thread its just an observation I've made by reading the answers, btw im not a teacher or a guard

sbsquarepants

Potential-Monke wrote: »

He goes to grab one lads arm with the intent of pulling him away/arresting him. Instead of it going smoothly, the guy whips his arm and the Garda's hand flys into the face of the other guy. Police Brutality. GSOC investigation. Months of worrying if you may lose your job or even go to jail. That's what he's worried about.

Why? Does he know many others who have suffered that fate?
I'm guessing he doesn't!

Little CuChulainn

il gatto wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-earns-extra-41000-as-bill-for-overtime-tops-40m-29207111.html

I know people who spent 5 years getting a masters to start on €20,000. The article states that Garda salaries start at €26,000. That's gross but doesn't include overtime or any allowances, of which there are many. €4,000 rent allowance, unvouched for, tax free and indeed pensionable. After 32 weeks training it's €23,171. That's the same as one college year. All in, I'd be very suprised if there's a guard earning less than €30,000, some of which is untaxed.
Yes, it can be dangerous. So can being a bouncer, a bike courier, a builder. Most dangerous job in the country is farming. But people know this when they sign up. If they didn't want to do it, don't. Leave (ha!). There's thousands of young lads waiting in the wings who also know it may be dangerous sometimes and are willing to do it for the money.
The GRA are like most unions. Justifying their being by telling their members how they're being screwed and they deserve better. Anyone near or above the "average annual earnings" as the CSO now term it, of €33,500ish and is having money troubles has mismanaged their finances. That is irrefutable. The nature of this figure is that there's more below than above it. For every person earning 20k over, there's two earning 10k less. If you squander money, live above your means or invest unwisely, that's your own look out. The state has weighed up your job and put a monetary value on it. Most would say quite a generous one. Don't like it, try your hand at something else.
It is all optics for the inevitable pay rise. Unfortunately the unions (GRA included) have brainwashed their members in preparing the ground.

New recruits don't get the rent allowance.

seamus wrote: »

That's not strictly true. A principal in a small/midsize school (20 teachers), with 25 years experience and a degree will be in receipt of around €90k basic. Not including any grinds or other work done outside the school year.

That's a pretty poor argument.

seamus

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That's a pretty poor argument.

It's not an argument, I'm just pointing out a fact. I didn't make any comment as to the work of the principal post or whether that was a good or poor payment, simply pointing out that it's disingenuous to claim that 60k/65k is the upper end of salaries for currently serving teachers.

Little CuChulainn

seamus wrote: »

It's not an argument, I'm just pointing out a fact. I didn't make any comment as to the work of the principal post or whether that was a good or poor payment, simply pointing out that it's disingenuous to claim that 60k/65k is the upper end of salaries for currently serving teachers.

No, it's disingenuos to claim that a person earns a certain amount and base that on the fact they could work extra on the side to supplement their income. If that were the case then the government could announce that there was nobody in poverty in this country because they could just get a job on the side to boost their income.

seamus

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No, it's disingenuos to claim that a person earns a certain amount and base that on the fact they could work extra on the side to supplement their income.

Who did that? I didn't.