Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

Hermy

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I'm getting a Margaret Francis or Ennis. (Sorry if this sounds like a seance!)

:D:D

DamoRed

Here's another awkward one. What I know is that This is in North Dublin. The church is what seems to be St Francis Xavier, aka Gardiner St. My query is, the residence at time of marriage of Margaret Coughlan. It looks like M?ullins. Does anything of that name in the North Dublin City area sound familiar to anyone?

BowWow

Sallins?

DamoRed

Hmmm... To be honest, I hadn't actually given any thought to it being anywhere outside of Dublin. However, Sallins, being relatively near to Celbridge is a strong possibility. Although no profession is named, she may have been a domestic servant in the area. In the 1901 census, there is a domestic servant named at their house.

So now the question is, is that half an M or half an S, and is the 2nd letter an a or u? The options then would be Mullins/Mallins or Sullins/Sallins, out of which only Sallins sounds sensible as a placename.

spurious

On the 1901 census, Margaret Shortt's birth county is given as Kildare. I'd be looking at Sallins.

DamoRed

Thank you, BowWow and Spurious. Having looked at the search results again, I looked at Naas. it tags with her father's name, Thomas, and also, her mother's name, Maria/Mary is given as a first name to a daughter, and a 2nd name to 2 of her children.

The simplest things can pass you by when your mind is addled with looking at all this stuff so long! :-)

tabbey

It is quite reasonable for a middle class couple to marry in the Jesuit church at Upper Gardiner Street and have a reception in the city, where guests can travel from different areas, and stay overnight.

DamoRed

I wasn't sure what the convention would be on being married in another church, other than the bride's home parish. The city centre church marriage is what threw me. To compound the matter, I had also found a Thomas Coughlan, her father's name, with an age of 65 at his death in North Dublin, seemingly confirming a North Dublin family home.

tabbey

It is only a tradition that people married in the bride's home church, it was not compulsory, although when my sister married in a neighbouring parish, the parish priest gave her some grief, probably because it was setting a trend, marrying in a traditional (Puginesque) church rather than a modern monstrosity.

A lot of couples got married in Dublin, because before they had cars, it was difficult to get from one provincial town to another unless it was on the same railway line, whereas all routes went to Dublin.

It was also popular, if the honeymoon was to be outside Ireland, for the marriage to be in Dublin city for access to the boats at North Wall, or in Kingstown for a quick walk to the malboat.

In the case of the Shortt marriage, although Mr Shortt was Clerk of the Celbridge Union, and would have got the GSWR train from Hazelhatch to Kingsbridge, same as the family from Sallins, Shortt himself was born at Rathcoffey, and his family would have got the MGWR train from Kilcock or Maynooth to Broadstone.

Hermy

tabbey wrote: »

It is only a tradition that people married in the bride's home church, it was not compulsory, although when my sister married in a neighbouring parish, the parish priest gave her some grief, probably because it was setting a trend, marrying in a traditional (Puginesque) church rather than a modern monstrosity.

A lot of couples got married in Dublin, because before they had cars, it was difficult to get from one provincial town to another unless it was on the same railway line, whereas all routes went to Dublin.

It was also popular, if the honeymoon was to be outside Ireland, for the marriage to be in Dublin city for access to the boats at North Wall, or in Kingstown for a quick walk to the malboat.

In the case of the Shortt marriage, although Mr Shortt was Clerk of the Celbridge Union, and would have got the GSWR train from Hazelhatch to Kingsbridge, same as the family from Sallins, Shortt himself was born at Rathcoffey, and his family would have got the MGWR train from Kilcock or Maynooth to Broadstone.

Terrific post tabbey - you're a mine of information.:)

I particularly like Puginesque which I hadn't heard before.

DamoRed

Great info, Tabbey.

Sorry to take this off-topic slightly, but an interesting find about this family:

While I've seen plenty of instances of a child being given the name of a previous sibling who'd died, I'd never before seen three children born in the same family given the same name. It appears that the Short family, as well as Francis B1865, had two boys called Patrick, B1864 & B1871 who died, and called a 3rd, B1875, Patrick as well. I've found the 3 births, but neither of the deaths. To be sure they're the same, each is born to Patrick Short and wife Mary, nee Ennis, all of either Castlebrown, or neighbouring Mainham, between Clane & Rathcoffey.

A tough pill to swallow.

tabbey

DamoRed wrote: »

Great info, Tabbey.

Sorry to take this off-topic slightly, but an interesting find about this family:

While I've seen plenty of instances of a child being given the name of a previous sibling who'd died, I'd never before seen three children born in the same family given the same name.

I also had a case of three children being given the same name, or similar.

a couple of my great grandparents, had their first child born 1877, she was Mary and died at nine days (premature), her replacement Mary Philomena, born 1880, died of rubella at nearly seven years. The next Mary Philomena lived to nearly 80, but spent most of her adult life in St Brendan's Hospital.

These instances just demonstrate the determination of parents to continue the name in the family, perhaps it was felt a lack of respect, not to do so.

It also shows the lottery of infantile mortality in the era before antibiotics and vaccination for common illnesses.
One set of my great great grand parents lost five of their six children, at one year old or less. In this case the one survivor has left dozens of descendants.

oceanclub

Would appreciate help with full cause of death here:



P.

spurious

Shock and haemorrhage following laceration of the brain and multiple wounds caused by bullet(s?)
Oh dear.

lottpaul

spurious wrote: »

Shock and haemorrhage following laceration of the brain and multiple wounds caused by bullet(s?)
Oh dear.

Agree - I have seen many similar while researching a family member who also died in the Civil War which was raging at this particular time - and also the more clinical descriptions of the cause of death of those executed by the Free State at the same time. It makes difficult reading and it's easy to see why the emotional scars extended for generations afterwards.

oceanclub

spurious wrote: »

Shock and haemorrhage following laceration of the brain and multiple wounds caused by bullet(s?)
Oh dear.

Yeah - more details on him (a distant relative) here - https://comeheretome.com/2013/02/04/james-spain-of-geraldine-square/

P.

srmf5

I'm trying to make out the cause of death for the first entry here: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05937/4686687.pdf

Also just a few quick questions. If a married 41 year old woman had her cause of death recorded as haemorrhage lasting 12 hours, could it be assumed that it may have been caused by a miscarriage? There was no birth or death of a child recorded. It was four years after the birth of her last recorded child. This lady had seven daughters. The first died from weakness at birth, the third died before she was 4 but I haven't found a death record, the 4th died when she 6 from debility, and the 5th died aged 19 from TB. I know that four of her own siblings died young with one aged 26 from TB, another aged 15 from decay, another aged 32 from TB and another at 3 months. It makes me wonder if they were a bit delicate. Her mother made it to 81 though. She had a brother that made it to 63 who had rheumatism for 6 years and I don't know what happened to her 3 other siblings.

In a 6 year old with a cause of death being debility with the illness lasting 2 days, what could this be? In a 14 year old what would decay lasting 2 years be due to? It seems like they might have had an illness that they didn't have a name for back then like cancer or a virus or something.

pinkypinky

Dropsy

srmf5

pinkypinky wrote: »

Dropsy

Thank you so much! No wonder it didn't jump out at me as a recognisable word.

Mez1982

Hi Everyone,
I found my 3x G, Granddad Reillys Death record and am unable to make out what his occupation was at time of Death. Can anyone give me a rough idea of what it might be?
Thanks in advance as always!

oceanclub

Mez1982 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,
I found my 3x G, Granddad Reillys Death record and am unable to make out what his occupation was at time of Death. Can anyone give me a rough idea of what it might be?
Thanks in advance as always!

Does that say:

Male

Farmer

?

shanew

small farmer ?

a look at the full page might help - seeing other examples of various letter etc

pinkypinky

Mod note: from now on please also post the link to the full page, so other words can be compared. It's fine to crop a small bit and add as a jpeg as well.

I think small farmer too.

Mez1982

pinkypinky wrote: »

Mod note: from now on please also post the link to the full page, so other words can be compared. It's fine to crop a small bit and add as a jpeg as well.

I think small farmer too.

Will do that the next time I need help, Apologies.
Thank you everyone, It definitely looks like small farmer

mickmackey1

Here's the cert for the legendary tenor Count John McCormack. But what is given as occupation? (next to the 61)



Full page for anyone who wants to compare writing - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1945/04615/4224306.pdf

Hermy

Would it be 'Independent' as in independent means?

mickmackey1

Ah I think you've got it. Certainly seems to begin with I, but couldn't figure out the rest. Thanks.

pedroeibar1

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Ah I think you've got it. Certainly seems to begin with I, but couldn't figure out the rest. Thanks.

I agree with Hermy - Independent (means). It also 'figures' as it is the cert of John Count McCormack, cause of death Emphysema, 3 years, cardiac failure certified. Informant Cyril McCormack. present at death. I had not realised he died that young. Cyril I think was his son?

Hermy

Place of death would appear to be Glena in Booterstown.

mickmackey1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I had not realised he died that young. Cyril I think was his son?

Yes his only son, died in 1990. His only daughter Gwen died in 1996.