Go Safe Camera Van living in Navan!

Little CuChulainn

dgt wrote: »

They are in positions where they can catch the most speeders. Its naff all to do with safety from what I see.

I'm pretty sure there has been a fatal crash on all the sections of road they on.

fancy pigeon wrote: »

A completely lousy spot just to generate funds with a badly placed speed limit. Its always there late on a Sat night to catch the taxi drivers

As I always said, why not have it at the racecourse where it's needed, the real accident black spot?

Saving lives, my arse

AFAIK, they need a particular road layout to work properly and safely.

highdef

Well as far as I remember, the limit heading Dublin bound is 60 from around about the Ardboyne Hotel. If this is the case, then the limit will be 60 until the next sign with a different limit on it. This appears to the one after the van. So this would mean that from the van to the 80 sign would be a 60 zone. Anything before the 80 zone, you cannot exceed 60, anything after the 80 sign , you cannot exceed 80.

jeffk

highdef wrote: »

Well as far as I remember, the limit heading Dublin bound is 60 from around about the Ardboyne Hotel. If this is the case, then the limit will be 60 until the next sign with a different limit on it. This appears to the one after the van. So this would mean that from the van to the 80 sign would be a 60 zone. Anything before the 80 zone, you cannot exceed 60, anything after the 80 sign , you cannot exceed 80.

So from the traffic lights to the sign about 10 feet later I was "speeding" building up to 80

highdef

Yes you were definitely speeding in that case. Up until you pass the 80 limit sign, the limit is 60. Only when you pass the 80 sign can you begin accelerating to that speed.

Same goes for speed limit drops. If you are going from an 80 to a 60 (for example), your speed must be no higher than 60 when you pass the 60 sign. You cannot travel at 80 all the way to the sign and then begin decelerating from there.

In short, your speed may never be higher than that of the last speed limit sign that you have posted.

highdef

jeffk wrote: »

So from the traffic lights to the sign about 10 feet later I was "speeding" building up to 80

You said earlier on that the 80 sign was after the van and that the van was after the traffic lights at the turn for Johnstown. If the 80 sign is about 10 feet from the traffic lights, how did the speed detection van fit in between the traffic lights and the speed limit sign as the van alone is more than 10 feet long?

jeffk

highdef wrote:

You said earlier on that the 80 sign was after the van and that the van was after the traffic lights at the turn for Johnstown. If the 80 sign is about 10 feet from the traffic lights, how did the speed detection van fit in between the traffic lights and the speed limit sign as the van alone is more than 10 feet long?

Herself will pass it tomorrow, I'll get the exact footage for you.

You must be one of those think of the children merchants, all your posts are very high and mighty.

You drive on a road,have to do 60 for certain bit until a sign says 80. Same road condition etc.
But you think for that few feet it's fair game to try and catch people out

Little CuChulainn

You can just check it on google maps with street view.

jeffk

From Dublin to Navan,camera was just after traffic lights sign, thats not sneaky?

Ill try and see distance to 80 sign going from Navan to Dublin

brinty

Jeff, you're the high and mighty sounding one. I commute daily from Navan. The 80km sign on both sides of the road is at least 200 -300 metres from the traffic lights.

The simple facts are before the 80 km signs your top speed cannot exceed 60kmph (this I systematically ignored by driver on this road) and failure to do so is speeding and you're at fault. Simple as that

jeffk

brinty wrote: »

Jeff, you're the high and mighty sounding one. I commute daily from Navan. The 80km sign on both sides of the road is at least 200 -300 metres from the traffic lights.

The simple facts are before the 80 km signs your top speed cannot exceed 60kmph (this I systematically ignored by driver on this road) and failure to do so is speeding and you're at fault. Simple as that

I said the van not the lights.

Well seen as you and highdef know it all, why does the speed increase to 80 where it does?

highdef

jeffk wrote: »

From Dublin to Navan,camera was just after traffic lights sign, thats not sneaky?

I don't think it's sneaky at all. If people can abide by the speed signs, then there is no issue at all. By the time a vehicle has got to the speed limit sign in that streetview screengrab, then the vehicle should have already slowed to that posted limit. Whether the van is 50m from a change of speed limit sign or 5000m realy is irrelevant and if somebody cannot control the speed of their vehicle, then hand back your licence and get off the road.
I do abide by the speed limits and have no issue with the cameras. I would bet a fairly substantial amount of money that the vast majority of people who complain about them are either habitual speeders who don't like getting caught or else are just not very observant and probably shouldn't be driving on the roads......or a mix of both!

I always abide by the speed limits so funnily enough I have no issue, mainly because I have no fear of being caught.

jeffk

brinty wrote: »

Sorry Jeff, I was agreeing with you, name mix up
My apologies
I agree with you 100% the speeds people do on that road every day is shocking and I absolutely see why there's vans there and further out the road.

I never said that and if you cant reply with an intelligent answer there's the after hour forum to try your comedy out in

jeffk

highdef wrote: »

I don't think it's sneaky at all. If people can abide by the speed signs, then there is no issue at all. By the time a vehicle has got to the speed limit sign in that streetview screengrab, then the vehicle should have already slowed to that posted limit. Whether the van is 50m from a change of speed limit sign or 5000m realy is irrelevant and if somebody cannot control the speed of their vehicle, then hand back your licence and get off the road.
I do abide by the speed limits and have no issue with the cameras. I would bet a fairly substantial amount of money that the vast majority of people who complain about them are either habitual speeders who don't like getting caught or else are just not very observant and probably shouldn't be driving on the roads......or a mix of both!

I always abide by the speed limits so funnily enough I have no issue, mainly because I have no fear of being caught.

High and mighty post yet again, im such a great driver I never do anything wrong

Light goes green
Drive on the R147
Regional and local speed limits (80 km/h)
Town and city speed limits (50 km/h)
There is no town or city there, the side of a house/s
Then more house/s as I continue on the R147
Now all of a sudden its (80 km/h)
Same road,same houses etc, but now its a different speed limit

highdef

jeffk wrote: »

Well seen as you and highdef know it all, why does the speed increase to 80 where it does?

If I am thinking of the correct place, then I would imagine that the change from 60 to 80 is because you will have left a built up area. The junction for Johnstown being the last section of the Dublin road that is zoned as a built up area.

The 50 in Navan town is for the built up areas with lots of people and cars in the area. The 60 from the Ardboyne to after the Johnstown junction is because it is still considered the Navan town area but it's not as built up. The 80 is outside of the town and is the default speed for regional roads outside of built up/urban areas.

highdef

jeffk wrote: »

High and mighty post yet again, im such a great driver I never do anything wrong

Light goes green
Drive on the R147
Regional and local speed limits (80 km/h)
Town and city speed limits (50 km/h)
There is no town or city there, the side of a house/s
Then more house/s as I continue on the R147
Now all of a sudden its (80 km/h)
Same road,same houses etc, but now its a different speed limit

Seriously, I'm not being high and mighty. When I obtained my licence, part of the deal was that I obey the rules of the road which I do to this day. I really can't understand why people think they have a god given right to speed when they choose to do so and then when they are caught try to say that it's somehow not their fault.

I'll try to explain the methodology behind the speed limits heading towards Dublin from Navan town centre. Hopefully it will make sense to you:

It's 50 limit till just after the Ardboyne. Up to this point, traffic is often heavier. Also, the 4 way junction before the Ardboyne is a busy one with traffic coming to and from Johnstown. I would imagine there would be a fair few pedestrians about as well. Just after this junction is the entrance/exit to the Ardboyne Hotel plus a few housing estates. They would necessitate a 50kph limit.

After this, the limit increases to 60. There are still a fair few houses along the road on the non-Boyne side. For this reason, and also because the area is still zoned as urban/semi-urban, the limit is 60. You then pass the roundabout which has the link road to the M3. Following this is a pub and a road junction situated on a bend. A 60 is still in place for very good reason at this point. You then cross the river and come up to the junction for Johnstown and also a minor road on the right. The is traffic light controlled and is a busy junction a lot of times so the limit remains at 60.

Shortly after you pass this junction, the area becomes rural and regional/non-national road limit of 80 applies.

The speed limits in place make complete sense and I can't find fault in them....that being my own opinion. That's not to say that I agree with all speed limits in all places. Some are rather unnecessary but I still obey them, nonetheless.

Little CuChulainn

jeffk wrote: »

I said the van not the lights.

Well seen as you and highdef know it all, why does the speed increase to 80 where it does?

Because you have passed the last set of traffic lights. Incidentally, if the van is where you said it was then it would be set to 80km speed limit because they are focused a good distance down the road.

NufcNavan

The speed limit should be 100 on the N3. 80 is ridiculous.

So is that poxy van being park in the same spot 3 or 4 times a week. Pure racket.

fancy pigeon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there has been a fatal crash on all the sections of road they on.



AFAIK, they need a particular road layout to work properly and safely.

Drag me up an article where there was a fatal crash near the Siminstown GAA pitch.

Now tell me why that van doesn't park at the race course, where there are a load of fatalities for the duration of the racecourse, with safe operating parking spots. Why isn't it there to protect lives. Why is it always at a lousy spot to try catch people at a terrible change of speed limit.

Can you offer me any answers to my above questions. Because the more I look at that particular scenario, the more I see it as a cheap way to generate revenue

Little CuChulainn

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Drag me up an article where there was a fatal crash near the Siminstown GAA pitch.

Now tell me why that van doesn't park at the race course, where there are a load of fatalities for the duration of the racecourse, with safe operating parking spots. Why isn't it there to protect lives. Why is it always at a lousy spot to try catch people at a terrible change of speed limit.

Can you offer me any answers to my above questions. Because the more I look at that particular scenario, the more I see it as a cheap way to generate revenue

During racing there are two gardaí on duty on the road outside for traffic calming and to ensure safe crossing for participants and animals. Not sure why they would put a speed trap there too.

You seem to think the vans should be at the exact spots accidents happen as opposed to down the road from them. But to answer your question, the vans need both a safe place to park and a stretch of straight road to monitor and the GAA club is an ideal spot. It also ensures vehicles coming into the more populated area slow down.

fancy pigeon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

During racing there are two gardaí on duty on the road outside for traffic calming and to ensure safe crossing for participants and animals. Not sure why they would put a speed trap there too.

You seem to think the vans should be at the exact spots accidents happen as opposed to down the road from them. But to answer your question, the vans need both a safe place to park and a stretch of straight road to monitor and the GAA club is an ideal spot. It also ensures vehicles coming into the more populated area slow down.

There are no gardai anymore, just stewards to help horses cross. You seem to think that people will obey the limit at that section at all times. Is there anyone there to monitor speed when there isn't a meet? Because I've had several near misses with looney bins overtaking there (I'm not joking, at that short stretch people will sometimes overtake)

Isn't that the whole object of the camera zones, to prevent fatalities? How are they going to do that when they are nowhere near the black spot? How can the apeed camera enforce the limit at the racecourse, where fatalities and accidents continue to happen? There are plenty of spots in the general area of the racecourse to park, I don't see how it is saving lives by parking nowhere near a black spot where there are safe places to park...

Wouldn't you agree?

Little CuChulainn

fancy pigeon wrote: »

There are no gardai anymore, just stewards to help horses cross. You seem to think that people will obey the limit at that section at all times. Is there anyone there to monitor speed when there isn't a meet? Because I've had several near misses with looney bins overtaking there (I'm not joking, at that short stretch people will sometimes overtake)

Isn't that the whole object of the camera zones, to prevent fatalities? How are they going to do that when they are nowhere near the black spot? How can the apeed camera enforce the limit at the racecourse, where fatalities and accidents continue to happen? There are plenty of spots in the general area of the racecourse to park, I don't see how it is saving lives by parking nowhere near a black spot where there are safe places to park...

Wouldn't you agree?

The objective is to adjust driver behaviour, not to catch people out at certain spots. And no, the racecourse does not have many suitable spots for a speed van in my opinion.

fancy pigeon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The objective is to adjust driver behaviour, not to catch people out at certain spots. And no, the racecourse does not have many suitable spots for a speed van in my opinion.

That's your opinion, but as a local I completely disagree. There have been garda parked at the enterance to the field at the proudstown end, well in off the road yet with a good view in each direction and clearly visible. And thats fact, not opinion

I will ask once more. How is the go safe van, introduced to save lives, where the ad said at black spots you will see these vans, going to save lives at the race course, a black spot, when it is no where near the black spot? A straight out answer, will it save lives in that black spot, yes or no?

Little CuChulainn

fancy pigeon wrote: »

That's your opinion, but as a local I completely disagree. There have been garda parked at the enterance to the field at the proudstown end, well in off the road yet with a good view in each direction and clearly visible. And thats fact, not opinion

I will ask once more. How is the go safe van, introduced to save lives, where the ad said at black spots you will see these vans, going to save lives at the race course, a black spot, when it is no where near the black spot? A straight out answer, will it save lives in that black spot, yes or no?

Drivers will slow down when they enter the enforcement zones (between the warning signs), which, afaik, includes the racecourse. Obviously there will be some people like yourself who know the area well who will be able to take calculated risks when it comes to speeding but that's just the way it goes. It will work for a lot of drivers.

Where Gardaí can set up and where vans can set up are very different.

Vego

jeffk wrote: »

From Dublin to Navan,camera was just after traffic lights sign, thats not sneaky?

Ill try and see distance to 80 sign going from Navan to Dublin

I gotta say on this speed trap at this time it is sneaky I jog up in dalgan every day and coming in to navan there's a big neon sign covering the left speed limit sign and on the right a trees branches obstruct the speed sign ....so by the time you do see the sign to slow safely your got

fancy pigeon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Drivers will slow down when they enter the enforcement zones (between the warning signs), which, afaik, includes the racecourse. Obviously there will be some people like yourself who know the area well who will be able to take calculated risks when it comes to speeding but that's just the way it goes. It will work for a lot of drivers.

Where Gardaí can set up and where vans can set up are very different.

Again, I've been given a roundabout answer. You couldn't answer me straight on a simple yes or no question whether the van was going to save lives at the black spot or not. I think that answers my question on that subject.

Now where did I say I take calculated risks in this thread? Are you jumping to a conclusion? Do you know me personally? How do you know what the majority of drivers in that road will and won't do?

Because thats a very sweeping generalisation in that first line. And about me.

Please explain

Little CuChulainn

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Again, I've been given a roundabout answer. You couldn't answer me straight on a simple yes or no question whether the van was going to save lives at the black spot or not. I think that answers my question on that subject.

Now where did I say I take calculated risks in this thread? Are you jumping to a conclusion? Do you know me personally? How do you know what the majority of drivers in that road will and won't do?

Because thats a very sweeping generalisation in that first line. And about me.

Please explain

How defensive. I never suggested you took risks. You just misunderstood the sentence. Maybe I should have punctuated it more. When I said "like you" I was merely referring to someone who has knowledge of the area.

As to your question, I can't predict the future or the actual effects of the positions of the cameras. Neither can you. If you want my opinion then I believe the presence of the cameras will reduce the number of serious collisions on that road.

NufcNavan

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The objective is to adjust driver behaviour, not to catch people out at certain spots.

Incorrect.

highdef

Vego wrote: »

I gotta say on this speed trap at this time it is sneaky I jog up in dalgan every day and coming in to navan there's a big neon sign covering the left speed limit sign and on the right a trees branches obstruct the speed sign ....so by the time you do see the sign to slow safely your got

Well if it is the case that a neon sign is covering the left sign and tree branches are covering the right hand side, then there may be a case where a speeding case could be dismissed if there is good quality photographic evidence showing that the obstructions mean that speed limit signs are not seen in time/at all. There's no point trying to enforce a speed limit if the signage is no up to the job.

highdef

NufcNavan wrote: »

Incorrect.

I would say the objective is to catch people out who are speeding and also to try adjust driver behaviour.

There are two main types of people who speed and/or are caught speeding:

1. Selfish people - People who don't care about other road users and what their driving style is like. They are all "me me me" and think that they are more important than other people on the roads and that their journey is more important than others.
2. The other type is the non-observant types and this is probably even worse than the selfish type. The non-observant type will drive along, usually in a reasonable manner, but will not really be observining what's going on around them, be it road signage or pedestrians or other vehicles, hazards, etc. They may go from an 80 to a 60/50 and actaully be completely unaware that they have done so. And because they are so unobservant, they don't even notice that they are entering a built up area.

Of course, you can also have a non-observant AND selfish driver. Probably the most dangerous on the road, swanning around in a hurry and completely oblivious to his or her surroundings.

That's my take on it anyway - It's merely my own opinion and I don't consider it to be fact.

Little CuChulainn

highdef wrote: »

I would say the objective is to catch people out who are speeding and also to try adjust driver behaviour.

There are two main types of people who speed and/or are caught speeding:

1. Selfish people - People who don't care about other road users and what their driving style is like. They are all "me me me" and think that they are more important than other people on the roads and that their journey is more important than others.
2. The other type is the non-observant types and this is probably even worse than the selfish type. The non-observant type will drive along, usually in a reasonable manner, but will not really be observining what's going on around them, be it road signage or pedestrians or other vehicles, hazards, etc. They may go from an 80 to a 60/50 and actaully be completely unaware that they have done so. And because they are so unobservant, they don't even notice that they are entering a built up area.

Of course, you can also have a non-observant AND selfish driver. Probably the most dangerous on the road, swanning around in a hurry and completely oblivious to his or her surroundings.

That's my take on it anyway - It's merely my own opinion and I don't consider it to be fact.

The objective is to adjust behaviour. The method is to catch people speeding.

As to the types of drivers. Speed vans will only be marginally useful against the first lot because they will actively try to avoid detection. They will use unmonitored roads and subscribe to warning systems and learn the locations of traps.

The second lot should be much more affected by the speed vans.