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Renewal time

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  • 10-07-2015 10:57am
    #1
    Cork Exile
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭


    Hi,
    Just looking for some advice.

    We got a renewal notice from our letting agent signalling a rental increase of €75 for the coming year. I replied with evidence of 2 properties in the same estate being rented for €100 and €50 less than our current rent after being on the market for 6-7 weeks. They were initially advertised at higher rates but the price drops were recorded.
    Straight away the agent said the LL would keep the rent at the same level as the previous year.
    I've been pushing him to drop the rent to match the other 2 houses but he's outright refusing to do so.
    All of the houses are similar in size, layout and furnishings.
    Is there anything I can do besides the obvious move out?
    Thanks


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    #2
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    You can dispute the rent with the PRTB. If you believe the market rate has dropped and you should be paying less this is the only way to enforce it.


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    #3
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    You can dispute the rent with the PRTB. If you believe the market rate has dropped and you should be paying less this is the only way to enforce it.

    Can they force a LL to reduce the rent? I understand stopping an increase but force a drop seems weird, if the tenant doesn't want to pay what he agreed he is free to leave he is not being forced to stay that way the LL can get another that will pay want he wants.


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    #4
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    I don't think the PRTB has the power to reduce rent. Can you provide a link to where it states they can?


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    #5
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    My understanding is if its the rent the tenant signed up for thats it


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    #6
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    MouseTail wrote: »
    I don't think the PRTB has the power to reduce rent. Can you provide a link to where it states they can?

    RTA2004. You can't set a rent above market rate following a rent review. The tenant can register a dispute with the PRTB as per any other dispute. The PRTB have the power to enforce the Act.


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    #7
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    RTA2004. You can't set a rent above market rate following a rent review. The tenant can register a dispute with the PRTB as per any other dispute. The PRTB have the power to enforce the Act.

    Yeah he can't raise it but the ll can't be force to reduce the orginal rent amount


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    #8
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    2 houses in the same area wouldn't exactly scream out as evidence that's the actual market rates.
    Consider rents have increased significantly across the country I personally think it would be hard to see the need for a reduction
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #9
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Yeah he can't raise it but the ll can't be force to reduce the orginal rent amount

    Rent reviews work both ways.


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    #10
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Rent reviews work both ways.

    Yes but it would be up the LL to agree and work out with the tenant. The prtb can't force him to reduce and keep the tenant I hope.


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    #11
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Yes but it would be up the LL to agree and work out with the tenant. The prtb can't force him to reduce and keep the tenant I hope.

    Why not? The landlord can only evict under certain conditions allowed in the Act during a part 4 tenancy.

    What you're proposing is upward only rent reviews, which is not the intention of the Act.


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    #12
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Why not? The landlord can only evict under certain conditions allowed in the Act during a part 4 tenancy.

    What you're proposing is upward only rent reviews, which is not the intention of the Act.

    Landord needs €900 rent to cover expenses, if the tenant agreed and has being paying that for a year they can negotiate downward, if the LL disagrees the tenant can continue the agreed or move and ask the next people for that amount.

    The landlord is not evicting just asking for the orginal amount.


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    #13
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Landord needs €900 rent to cover expenses, if the tenant agreed and has being paying that for a year they can negotiate downward, if the LL disagrees the tenant can continue the agreed or move and ask the next people for that amount.

    The landlord is not evicting just asking for the orginal amount.

    That's not how rent reviews work. Nor is it how the PRTB view evictions.


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    #14
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    That's not how rent reviews work. Nor is it how the PRTB view evictions.

    Have you any case of the prtb forcing a reduction not a return over market value increase but a reduction of the original amount.

    I don't they force a reduction.


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    #15
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Have you any case of the prtb forcing a reduction not a return over market value increase but a reduction of the original amount.

    I don't they force a reduction.

    I would trawl the cases to find an example but don't have the time over the next few days. The intent of the law is what's important here and unless it's specific to upward only reviews then it can force a reduction.

    Rents were falling several years ago, so you might want to check the PRTB from back then for an example in the meantime.

    Edit: it may also be that landlords know the market and don't end up in front of a PRTB tribunal for a rent decrease, and there are few if any published cases. They're more likely to accept the outcome of a mediator which I'm not sure is even published on the PRTB website.


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    #16
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    You are wrong, the PRTB cannot force a rent decrease.


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    #17
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    MouseTail wrote: »
    You are wrong, the PRTB cannot force a rent decrease.

    Can you show where that is explicitly stated. All I've seen is the PRTB's enforcement of the Act and the Act not allowing to charge above market rent following a rent review at any time.


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    #18
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Can you show where that is explicitly stated. All I've seen is the PRTB's enforcement of the Act and the Act not allowing to charge above market rent following a rent review at any time.

    But it's not a rent review, they are paying what they agreed and have being paying for at least a year, if they want cheaper they can move they are not force to stay there.


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    #19
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    But it's not a rent review, they are paying what they agreed and have being paying for at least a year, if they want cheaper they can move they are not force to stay there.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

    "If there is any dispute about the amount of rent being proposed, either side can refer the dispute to the PRTB. If you are claiming that the proposed rent is higher than the market rate, you should provide comparable evidence of rental rates for similar properties in the same area."

    Note, the amount of rent, not the increase.

    There's nothing in the legislation or any of the guidance that sets the floor at the initial agreed amount, only what the market rate is. You cannot read extra requirements into legislation. That's not how the law is enforced.


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