Battle of Britain 75th anniversary

glacial_pace71

Ok so we can all gaze into our collective crystal balls on this one and see this weekend the likely lazy media references to "ten Irish pilots were awarded the Battle of Britain clasp".
Of the 2,950 or so who were awarded the BoB clasp there were at least 45 Irish-born and approximately 60 who identified as being Irish (e.g. born to military families in garrison towns or in colonial service).
The figure of 10 Irish is derived from those who held the Irish Free State passport. However, back in the 1930s the Free State passport was often confiscated by British consulates, as it didn't explicitly state that the bearers were "British subjects" and instead only referred to them as being "Irish citizens", a long-running dispute that decade.
Many Irish people travelled on the same "British subject" passports that the Australians and Canadians used. (Yes, they too often grumble re the levels of recognition for their pilots).
There were over a dozen Free State-born BoB pilots killed in the battle or later in the war, but for those who survived the war and so got to articulate a position on their nationality, here are (by way of example) 5 Irish-born or Irish-raised who are not regarded as "Irish" for the Irish media purposes.

Paddy Barthropp, Dublin-born to an Irish mother from the Kilkenny/Waterford Dease family:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1899012/Wg-Cdr-Paddy-Barthropp.html

Jim Fenton, who was Argentine-born/Irish-raised and Irish-educated:
http://www.bbm.org.uk/FentonHA.htm

H.J. Maguire, who was born in Co Clare (ok a bit more Des Lynham than Terry Wogan re his Clare background, but a banner county man nonetheless):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Maguire

Dublin-born Rupert Smythe, whose father served in WWI with the Inniskillings:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205059621

The English-born, Irish-raised Tim Vigors was from the Cliffe-Vigors family of Burgage, Co Carlow. The family returned to Ireland during his childhood. He flew with a tricolour on his Spitfire:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Vigors

Of those born north of the border but who often self-described as 'Irish' see Frederick Desmond Hughes:
http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Hughes_FD.htm

Of course, of the 10 "official Irish" Battle of Britain clasp holders there were a couple who were born north of the border (e.g. Hill Harkness and W.W. McConnell).

There's enough anti-Irish racism in the British media without Irish journalists colluding but just take a look this weekend at the copy-and-paste. You'd think they'd be even a little curious for the 75th anniversary but I suppose budgets don't stretch that far when it's easier to just buy in the boilerplate syndicated articles on the subject.

Jawgap

Tim Vigors biography is a brilliant read - the story goes that when he turned the first 600 pages into the publisher he still hadn't reached the BoB!!

His family founded Ballydoyle - the famous stud.

The other overlooked Irish 'characters' in the BoB are, IMO, Richard Saul AOC 12 Group during the Battle and Freddie Pyle, GOC Anti-Aircraft Command.

Pyle was brought up in Dublin, his father was a Redmondite and the first chapter of his biography is all about the politics of home rule / nationalism etc. His father was also Lord Mayor of Dublin.

I'm always surprised at the amount of coverage Victor Beamish doesn't get - a BoB pilot, he was originally invalided or of the RAF with TB, which he not only recovered from, but recovered sufficiently to regain his commission - played rugby at representative level for Ireland (but didn't win a full cap - unlike his brother another RAF pilot) and helped found the RCAF. He was the highest ranked pilot to score a kill in the BoB.

glacial_pace71

I too loved Vigors' biography; yes, the Coolmore Stud people give him great credit.
I'm often in two minds about Beamish. Doug Stokes wrote a good biography, attempting to convey the forceful personality and grim determination of the man. But Victor was a boxer, his brothers the great Irish rugby internationals, i.e. Victor was not subtle. For all the huge praise heaped on him by inexperienced pilots (e.g. the "I thought I was stuck as 'arse-end Charlie' on the patrol then the Group Captain turns up astern") there was much bed-wetting by experienced pilots, who regarded his uninvited surprise arrivals with consternation, e.g. Bob Standford Tuck tried to explain to Beamish that he often had to make a call to 'break' when an unidentified aircraft came bearing in on the formation. I also find it hard to forgive Beamish for using his fists against an untrained opponent: for any trained boxer (particularly of his weight) it's a cardinal sin. (Ok, so some young Canadian was being immolated, and the German bombers were departing, and had the runway been given some interim repairs they could've hunted down their opponents, but fundamentally the Irish civilian navvies were perfectly entitled to wait for an 'all clear' siren. All Beamish's huffing, puffing and eventual fisticuffs diminish him in my eyes).
On other unsung Irishmen of the BoB? Mike ffrench-Beytagh is often ignored on account of his Shanghai birth. His father was a businessman there. His mother may or may not have had three children by Mike's father. (Mike's sister Pat is sometimes called his half-sister, as is his brother Gonville). Mike's father and mother split, with the children being sent back to the UK to be raised by an English nanny who was not their legal guardian. Then Mike's father goes bust in China, leaving the kids and their English nanny to somehow manage. Mike ends up in all sorts of strange dependencies, exhausting so much goodwill before moving on to another host. Yet all the WW2 memoirs refer to his "Irish charm" or his "Irish good humour" even though Mike would only have ever seen Ireland as an occasional tourist destination for visiting relatives. Beytagh's command of the City of Glasgow squadron - like Paddy Finucane's role there - is always a source of discomfort for Rangers fans and other assorted sectarian types who've only learned about military history through Hollywood or their 'Famine Song'.
Of the various Irish dead with a BoB clasp? So many, but here are a few that never get a mention, probably on account of being killed later in the war with units outside the Fighter Command squadrons with which they'd served in the BoB.
From Co Donegal, E.H.C. Kee (a DFC winner):
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2224243/KEE,%20ERNEST%20HENRY%20CLARKE

From Co Leitrim, W.Riley (another DFC winner):
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1282356/RILEY,%20WILLIAM

A Kerryman, J.B. McCormack:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1079200/McCORMACK,%20JOHN%20BERNARD

Although Dublin and Belfast account for the majority, there are nevertheless quite a spread across many parts of Ireland.

Btw Paddy Saul does get some limited recognition in Ireland for his civilian aviation pioneering flights of the inter-war years, e.g. the trans-Atlantic flight from the Southern Hemisphere:
http://www.portmarnockwaves.com/Sourthern_Cross.html
However, it's still taboo to mention his successful wartime military career.

Jawgap

Unternehmen Adlerangriff (Operation Eagle Attack), was originally planned for 10 August, but had to be postponed because of unsuitable weather.

Luftflotte 2 and Luftflotte 3 (in France, Holland and Belgium) mustered 875 medium bombers, 316 dive bombers, 702 single-engined fighters and 227 twin-engined fighters for the day's operations.

Another 200 aircraft from Luftflotte 5 in Denmark and Norway, were to attack Northern England and Scotland, to try and draw off some of the RAF fighters from the south.

Unfortunately for the Luftwaffe, the weather forecasts were inaccurate and weather incurred delays combined with poor communications meant the days sorties were flown piecemeal instead of in a coordinated fashion.

All told, the Luftwaffe mounted nearly 1,500 which the Fighter Command opposed with 727 defensive sorties.

In combat, the Germans lost 20 bombers with 14 badly damaged; 15 Bf 110s with six damaged plus 9 Bf 109s destroyed. Fighter Command lost 14 fighters and six damaged but crucially suffered no conclusive damage to airfields or command and control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9HE9wPj96s

glacial_pace71

Of the Irish in action over the period in question?

On 12 Aug Belfast-born Frederick Thomas Gardiner was wounded after an aerial combat near Dover. He safely landed his Spitfire (R6806), but two of his 610 Squadron colleagues were shot down. Gardiner was brought down a number of times:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/63/a2784963.shtml

On 14 August Dublin-born Rupert Frederick Smythe of 32 Squadron survived an encounter with Me109s but his Hurricane (P3171) was written off.

On 15 August English-born Gordon Neil Spencer 'Mouse' Cleaver of 601 Squadron had to bale out, his disintegrating Hurricane (P3232) resulting in a number of severe injuries. Cleaver was the son of Belfast-born Lt Col Arthur Cleaver and Lady Adelaide Cleaver, a pre-war aviation pioneer from Co Down (and the daughter of Hugh Pollock, Minister for Finance at Stormont)

glacial_pace71

On 18 August Dublin-born John Hemingway was forced to bale out after combat with He 111s over the Thames Estuary. He was one of two Hurricanes lost by 85 Squadron that day. Hemingway had been brought down over Maastrict during the Battle of France, on 11 May, and was to be brought down again during the Battle of Britain, on 26 August.
His Hurricane I on 18 Aug was V7249, his Hurricane I on 26 Aug was P3966.
Zampano Productions have a series of short interviews with Hemingway, including a later occasion over Italy in which he was brought down once again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5UsYC3HsFQ

Other Irish in action at this time?
Tyrone-born Cecil Robert Montgomery was killed on 14 Aug, one of two Hurricanes lost by 615 Squadron in a battle over Dover. (His remains were interred in France).
Dublin-born Rupert F. Smythe of 32 Squadron survived a combat with Me109s over Folkestone but his Hurricane I (V6568) was a write-off. It was one of 4 Hurricanes lost by 32 Squadron that day.
Belfast-born Frederick T. Gardiner of 610 Squadron was wounded again, having to bale out over Dover after his Spitfire I (K9331) was shot up badly by 109s.
On 26 Aug the English-born son of the Irish WWI 'ace' Ronald St Clair McClintock was forced to bale out. John A McClintock survived, one of 4 Hurricanes lost by 615 Squadron that day.
Belfast-born David Whitley was killed on 28 Aug. He was in one of 3 Defiants lost that day by 264 Squadron. On 26 Aug the squadron had lost 3 Defiants, and back on 24 Aug the squadron had lost 4 Defiants. It should never have continued in day operations. On the other hand Co Down-born Frederick Desmond Hughes of 264 Squadron managed to bring down two Dornier 17s. (Hughes was to do well in both day and night fighting operations with that useless contraption). As a curiosity, Hughes, Whitley and a few other Irishmen at 264 Squadron should not be confused with the Irish contingent at 263 Squadron, who also flew an atypical aircraft, the Whirlwind, which was a post-BoB development. (Lester Currie, Philip Harvey - son of the Bishop of Cashel - and Stuart Lovell had regularly worn shamrock logos, which gave rise to erroneous English press reports of a 'squadron of lucky clovers').

One other prominent Irish casualty at this time? Squadron Leader John Vincent Clarence Badger DFC of 43 Squadron was shot down on 30 Aug. He baled out from Hurricane I (V6548) but was badly injured, coming down in trees. He didn't die until 30 June 1941 so is sometimes missed as a BoB casualty.

Ok that's probably enough detail for late August.

ByranMills

Hi, anyone going to this show or has anyone been to an airshow in Duxford? What's is traffic like when leaving (we are hiring a car) - my son and I have a flight to catch at 8pm in Stansted back to Shannon. Is it a good idea to leave before the show is finished?

Lemming

ByranMills wrote: »

Hi, anyone going to this show or has anyone been to an airshow in Duxford? What's is traffic like when leaving (we are hiring a car) - my son and I have a flight to catch at 8pm in Stansted back to Shannon. Is it a good idea to leave before the show is finished?

Airshows at Duxford get "busy". There are decent road links into the venue, but even with that, it will still be very much a case of insanely heavy traffic. There are some overflow car-parks (read fields) nearby that can be used also. Just do your homework if you plan to park at or near the venue.

Not sure of the route from Duxford to Stansted, but again, do your homework. Leaving after a busy airshow (of which this one most certainly will be) will take a while if driving. I went to see two Lancasters flying at Duxford in September 2014 and it took an age to get out of the overflow car-parking.

ByranMills

Hi Lemming,
Many thanks for the reply. We intend to get back to Stansted using the M11 (junction is beside Duxford museum). Using AA roadwatch route planner, journey time is normally 30 minutes. When it took an age to get out of overflow car park - would that be less than an hour or over an hour?

beauf

Is there public transport link to Duxford.

beauf

What books on these guys would ye recommend?

Lemming

ByranMills wrote: »

Hi Lemming,
Many thanks for the reply. We intend to get back to Stansted using the M11 (junction is beside Duxford museum). Using AA roadwatch route planner, journey time is normally 30 minutes. When it took an age to get out of overflow car park - would that be less than an hour or over an hour?

I say it took an age bearing in mind that my partner & I were among the first into that overflow car-park (as we turned up on the day without tickets pre-booked so needed to guarantee entry) and consequently at the back to get out.

But yes, getting out was in the multiples of tens of minutes, not "a few minutes". We ended up going out another way to that which we came in (to the car parking) so I can only hazard a guess at how insanely bad the traffic on the route past the entrance to Duxford became. Once we were out of the car-park though - for us - it wasn't too bad. But again, we weren't going to Stansted; the opposite direction in fact, heading north.

pmrc

Hi
My son is doing an history project on the Irish spitfire pilots of world war 2.
Its for his leaving cert history project.
Can any one suggest web pages, books etc,.
He was it do an general project rather than focus an one particular pilot.
Thanks

Jawgap

pmrc wrote: »

Hi
My son is doing an history project on the Irish spitfire pilots of world war 2.
Its for his leaving cert history project.
Can any one suggest web pages, books etc,.
He was it do an general project rather than focus an one particular pilot.
Thanks

You could try this.....

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/contents-index.html

And books-wise I'd recommend Stephen Bungay "Most Dangerous Enemy" or if he wants something a little less dense Patrick Bishop "Battle of Britain."

tac foley

Irish fighter pilots? The story of Paddy Finucane is a must - 'Paddy Finucane, Fighter Ace: A Biography of Wing Commander Brendan E. Finucane, D.S.O., D.F.C. and Two Bars'.

The book -Paddy Finucane - Fighter Ace' is available from Amazon.

tac

Manach

I don't remember Irish pilots being mentioned, but the following is a book I listened to about American pilots serving in the RAF during the Battle of Britain:
The Few: The American "Knights of the Air" Who Risked Everything to Fight in the Battle of Britain by Alex Kershaw.

Jawgap

pmrc wrote: »

Hi
My son is doing an history project on the Irish spitfire pilots of world war 2.
Its for his leaving cert history project.
Can any one suggest web pages, books etc,.
He was it do an general project rather than focus an one particular pilot.
Thanks

Actually, I just re-read your post......

.....apart from the Finucane biography referenced by Tac, he's probably going to struggle to find much material that covers specifically Irish Spitfire pilots.

The BoB is well chronicled and much was made at the time, ostensibly for propaganda reasons, of the various nationalities fighting and flying with the RAF.

If you wanted more info on other campaigns you probably have to drill down to squadron records and work back from there or find accounts left by Irish pilots......neither an easy task.

glacial_pace71

If your son is looking for Spitfire pilots specifically then do bear in mind that there were more Hurricanes than Spitfires in the Battle of Britain.

However, as the subject of his research would appear to extend to World War II then he's really set himself a huge body of work: the Spitfire was to serve in all theatres over the course of the war.

Further, while there were Irish pilots who served with a Spitfire-equipped squadron at any particular time, your son would need to cross-check the precise dates for men and machines, e.g. some pilots were rotated around a lot and so may not have seen service on the Spitfire.

Apologies if all the foregoing sounds pedantic, but there were 25,000 Irishmen (North and South) who served with the RAF in World War II. I'd be aware of hundreds who served with RAF Fighter Command. However, bear in mind that RAF Fighter Command became the Air Defence of Great Britain (ADGB) and the 2nd Tactical Air Force (2TAF). The ADGB used Typhoons and Tempests in taking out V1 flying bombs but some of the more famous Irish names in ADGB had previously seen service on the Spitfire.

A good starting point for your son on the Irish role in WWII (whether it be on land, sea or air) would be any of the books by Richard Doherty, e.g. "In the Ranks of Death" would still be widely available.

If looking specifically at the Irish role in the RAF in WWII then John Hewitt's excellent 'Irish Aviator Heroes - Volume 2' would be a good starting point. However, it takes a biographical approach rather than a chronological one, i.e. it's done via individual life stories, some of which entail a pre-war to post-war service history.

I've information from quite a few squadron ORBs and individual combat reports, so if there's information needed on a specific pilot I could dig it out. (However, much of that material has since become available in digitised format, and no longer requires a trip to Kew).

pmrc

Thanks for your replys
I have ordered "Irish Aviator Heroes - Volume 2' , The Silver Spitfire : The Legendary WWII RAF Fighter Pilot in His Own Words and Paddy Finucane : Fighter Ace" for him
He really wants to do some thing spitfire pilots . I suggested to focus on the Irish pilots as I felt that by doing this it would gain him more marks in the leaving cert.
But has my suggestion made it more difficult?

tac foley

I'd say that it has. You see, here in the British Armed Forces we are/were not as nationality-minded as you are/seem to be. For instance, in my unit -

1. The Chief Clerk was a Dubliner in the Army.

2. My QM was a New Zealander in the Army.

3. My boss was a Channel Islander RAF.

4. There was a sprinkling of Scots and Welsh and a large proportion of people who would, if pressed, call themselves English, but were in any event British. Most were RAF with myself and three other Army Officers.

Apart from one of my fellow Army officers, who was a man apart, having been born a Yorkshireman, nationality or ethnicity never came into our daily dealings, either with each other, or with the 50-something nationalities of students from all over the world who came to our establishment.

So the Chief Clerk was an Irishman and the Chief Instructor - that's me, was half-Irish. So what? You do your job/duty to the best of your ability as part of the team.

tac

pmrc

Tac it was not my intention to offend any one.
The reason I suggested to my son that the focus on the Irish spitfire pilots was that it had been suggested that the person correcting it would look more favourable on it if he just focused on the Irish pilots.

glacial_pace71

pmrc wrote: »

Tac it was not my intention to offend any one.
The reason I suggested to my son that the focus on the Irish spitfire pilots was that it had been suggested that the person correcting it would look more favourable on it if he just focused on the Irish pilots.

If he's setting out to do an original research project as part of his Leaving Cert, and he is from Ireland (North or South), then it'd be perfectly reasonable for him to look at the role of Irishmen in the RAF. As pointed out by others, this will be a tough task, as the flying services were quite agnostic to nationality.

To take on a specific aircraft type, such as the Spitfire, would not be unreasonable, but it would take a lot of cross-checking numerous sources and data sets to arrive at anything approximating a list.

There were scores of squadrons that used the Spitfire. I'm attempting to paste in some Irish casualties with these squadrons. (See below). Just over 60 casualties, and that's from a simple filter of data on a spreadsheet: a proper look at the CWGC data would probably turn up twice that number. One major problem with that data set is that it does not include squadron number in almost half the returns. (Don't forget too that many Irishmen had English next-of-kin addresses. Other families didn't want the Irish address to feature, with the result that of the 2,000 Irish casualties with the RAF and Fleet Air Arm in WWII, perhaps only 1,300-1,500 include an Irish address).

Of the squadrons listed below several converted from one aircraft type to another on more than one occasion during the war, i.e. 16, 26, 28, 32, 33, 34, 43, 134, 136, 183, 208, 213, 237, 239, 241, 243, 249, 274 Squadrons. Your son would need to look at the date of death to see if it was a Spitfire casualty. (Sites like 'Aircrew Remembered' could probably provide the aircraft serial in almost every case).

MATHERS THOMAS SETH Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 118 Sqdn. United Kingdom '1112782' RINGWOOD CEMETERY SON OF ARCHIBALD AND ELIZABETH MATHERS; HUSBAND OF MOLLIE MATHERS, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. DONALDSON WILLIAM MATTHEW Flight Sergeant Royal Air Force 123 Sqdn. Egypt '552181' HELIOPOLIS WAR CEMETERY SON OF THOMAS AND MARY A. DONALDSON, OF DOWNPATRICK, CO. DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND. McCANN THOMAS ANDREW Pilot Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 134 Sqdn. Egypt '116980' EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY SON OF THOMAS ANDREW MITCHELL MCCANN AND FLORENCE MCCANN, OF BANGOR, CO. DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND; HUSBAND OF BARBARA MCCANN. KEARON ARTHUR BRODIE Pilot Officer Royal Air Force 136 Sqdn. Singapore '54854' SINGAPORE MEMORIAL SON OF ROBERT ALBERT KEARON, FORMERLY R.N.R., AND OF JESSIE WEIR KEARON, OF DUN LAOGHAIRE, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. KENNEDY PETER FRANCIS Pilot Officer Royal Air Force 136 Sqdn. Myanmar '54341' TAUKKYAN WAR CEMETERY SON OF JAMES AND KATHERINE KENNEDY, OF CORK, IRISH REPUBLIC. HAIRE JOHN KEATINGE Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 145 Sqdn. NI, Belfast '748611' BELFAST (DUNDONALD) CEMETERY SON OF SIDNEY HUME HAIRE AND NORA J. HAIRE, OF BELFAST. EWART NORMAN STERLING Pilot Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 154 Sqdn. Egypt '158918' ALAMEIN MEMORIAL SON OF JOHN W. AND ETHEL EWART, OF FINAGHY, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND. FLEMING WILLIAM JOSEPH ALEXANDER Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 154 Sqdn. United Kingdom '1118705' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF WILLIAM A. AND CATHERINE FLEMING, OF LONDONDERRY. McGILLIGAN MICHAEL AIDAN Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force 16 Sqdn. United Kingdom '111245' REDHILL (REDSTONE) CEMETERY SON OF MICHAEL AND MARY GEORGINA MCGILLIGAN, OF GREYSTONES, CO. WICKLOW, IRISH REPUBLIC. Born in India, educated at St Gerard's Bray, Co Wicklow. O'REILLY JOHN PATRICK Leading Aircraftman Royal Air Force 16 Sqdn. France '535507' DOINGT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION SON OF JAMES AND SARAH O'REILLY, OF CLIFTONVILLE, BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. LOVELL STUART JAMES Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 183 Sqdn. France '107258' BREST (KERFAUTRAS) CEMETERY SON OF STUART C. ANTHONY AND CLARE MARY LOVELL, OF PORTRUSH, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND; HUSBAND OF ALICIA LOVELL, OF EPSOM, SURREY. HIS BROTHER, WING. CDR. ANTHONY DESMOND LOVELL, D.S.O. AND BAR, D.F.C. AND BAR, D.F.C. (AMERICAN), ALSO DIED ON SERVICE. CONNOR DESMOND WILLIAM Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 19 Sqdn. France '132894' ST. DESIR WAR CEMETERY SON OF SAMUEL EDGAR AND FLORENCE JANE CONNOR, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. McDERMOTT WILLIAM Flight Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 19 Sqdn. Serbia '1007187' BELGRADE WAR CEMETERY SON OF ROBERT J. MCDERMOTT AND ISABELLA MCDERMOTT, OF LONDONDERRY, NORTHERN IRELAND. SCOTT HENRY DONALD Warrant Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 19 Sqdn. Serbia '981101' BELGRADE WAR CEMETERY SON OF J. E. SCOTT AND SAIDIE SCOTT, OF GREYSTONES, CO. WICKLOW, IRISH REPUBLIC. IWM: WWII War Memorial, St Patrick's Church, Church Rd, Greystones, Co Wicklow, Ireland REDMOND ROBERT JOSEPH Leading Aircraftman Royal Air Force 208 Sqdn. Egypt '528107' ALAMEIN MEMORIAL SON OF MR. AND MRS. J. P. REDMOND, OF BLACKROCK, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. ROGERS JOHN KANE Wing Commander Royal Air Force 208 Sqdn. Egypt '39761' ALAMEIN MEMORIAL SON OF JOHN SYDNEY AND PATRICIA R. ROGERS, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. IWM: WWII Roll of Honour, Newcastle, St John's Church, Co Down, Ireland ADAIR HUBERT HASTINGS 'Paddy' Sergeant Royal Air Force 213 Sqdn. United Kingdom '580088' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF ROBERT Hastings Adair (1858-16 Aug 1924) AND ELIZABETH ADAIR (née McBride, 1887-1970), OF NORWICH. Hubert was born in 1917 at Castleblayney, Co Monaghan, educated in Norwich. Hubert was one of seven children. According to Irish Census 1911 Elizabeth McBride was Robert Hasting Adair's second wife. Hubert married Deborah Millicent Preston, had a daughter, Patricia M Adair in 1939. Hubert's sister (i.e. via Elizabeth McBride Adair) was Marion Adair. WALLACE ROBERT JOSEPH Pilot Officer Royal Air Force 213 Sqdn. Egypt '49696' ALAMEIN MEMORIAL SON OF ROBERT AND MARY WALLACE, OF BELFAST, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND. RUSK MAURICE PATRICK Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 222 Sqdn. NI, Co Antrim '1062426' Drumbeg (St Patrick) Church of Ireland Churchyard CWGC: Blank. Killed in Spitfire Mk.Vb (BL408) near Thornwood, Essex FAIRMAN EDWARD ALLAN LUCAS Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 234 Sqdn. Ireland, Republic of '1381374' STRANORLAR (ST. ANNE) CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD SON OF JOSEPH AND GEORGINA FAIRMAN (NEE LUCAS), OF BALLYBOFEY. [Donegal]. MAXWELL VICTOR EDWIN Twice Mentioned in Despatches Wing Commander Royal Air Force 237 (Rhodesian) (Army Co-operation) Squadron United Kingdom '36004' BROOKWOOD MILITARY CEMETERY SON OF THOMAS (1870-1940) AND MARGARET MARY Harris MAXWELL (1879-1970), OF Verona, SANDYCOVE, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC; HUSBAND OF SUSAN DOROTHEA MAXWELL, OF HARLOW, ESSEX. COMYN REGINALD DANIEL Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 239 Sqdn. United Kingdom '140891' HARPENDEN (WESTFIELD) CEMETERY SON OF NICHOLAS O'CONNELL COMYN, AND OF MARY CECILIA COMYN (NEE MAHONEY), OF CASTLEKNOCK, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. A.R.S.M., HONS. (LOND.). KEE ERNEST HENRY CLARKE D F C Squadron Leader Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 241 Sqdn. Serbia '69441' BELGRADE WAR CEMETERY SON OF THOMAS AND MARY MARGRETTA KEE, OF BALLYBOFEY, CO. DONEGAL, IRISH REPUBLIC. TURKINGTON ROBERT WILKINSON D S O, D F C and Bar Squadron Leader Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 241 Sqdn. Italy '117519' PADUA WAR CEMETERY SON OF JOHN AND MARY AMELIE TURKINGTON, OF DERRYTRASNA, CO. ARMAGH, NORTHERN IRELAND. WALLACE JOHN Corporal Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 241 Sqdn. NI, Co Antrim '1504000' RANDALSTOWN PRESBYTERIAN (OLD CONGREGATION) CHURCHYARD SON OF WILLIAM AND ELIZABETH WALLACE; HUSBAND OF JEAN WALLACE, OF BALLYMENA [Co Antrim]. AUSTIN STANLEY MAURICE Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 243 Sqdn. Tunisia '113412' ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY SON OF GLOVER E. AUSTIN AND MARY C. AUSTIN, OF LONDONDERRY, NORTHERN IRELAND. VAUX ROBERT NORMAN Leading Aircraftman Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 243 Sqdn. Singapore '970332' SINGAPORE MEMORIAL SON OF HAROLD AND MARY VAUX, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. MEAKER JAMES REGINALD BRYAN D F C Pilot Officer Royal Air Force 249 Sqdn. United Kingdom '42514' WEST DEAN CEMETERY SON OF EDGAR REGINALD AND LUCY ADELAIDE KATHLEEN MEAKER, OF WEST DEAN. [Born in Co Cork] ADAMS HAROLD WILLIAM Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 26 Sqdn. United Kingdom '118559' BROOKWOOD MILITARY CEMETERY SON OF HENRY AND DOROTHEA JANE ADAMS, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. B.A. McCOMAS HENRY CLAUD Pilot Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 26 Sqdn. France '108133' BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY SON OF CYRIL HENRY AND HILDA MARY CLAUDE MCCOMAS, OF BLACKROCK, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. M.A. (CANTAB.) CAIUS COLLEGE. (His father was a doctor, based in Dorking for some years. Henry may have been born there in 1913 prior to returning to Ireland). Possibly a Mustang fighter pilot. PERRY FREDERICK JAMES Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 28 Sqdn. Singapore '119140' SINGAPORE MEMORIAL HUSBAND OF ELIZABETH MARY PERRY, OF KILLYLEAGH, CO. DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND. GORMAN FRANCIS JOHN NOEL Leading Aircraftman Royal Air Force 274 Sqdn. Egypt '647105' EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY SON OF ALBERT AND ISABELLA GORMAN, OF BANGOR, CO. DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND. JOHNSTON TERENCE HARVEY Flight Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 274 Sqdn. Libya '745251' KNIGHTSBRIDGE WAR CEMETERY, ACROMA SON OF WILLIAM HARVEY JOHNSTON AND SUSAN JOHNSTON; HUSBAND OF ELIZABETH MOORE JOHNSTON, OF DOWNPATRICK, CO. DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND. PURCE NORMAN JAMES Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 274 Sqdn. United Kingdom '170137' MAIDSTONE CEMETERY, KENT SON OF GEORGE R. B. PURCE AND ELIZABETH R. PURCE, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. CONNOLLY HARRY Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 32 Sqdn. France '100563' DIEPPE CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, HAUTOT-SUR-MER SON OF WILLIAM JAMES CONNOLLY AND JANE CONNOLLY, OF LISBURN, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND. HICKEY WILLIAM ARFON Pilot II Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 33 Sqdn. Germany '572015' BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY SON OF CAPT. TIMOTHY WILLIAM HICKEY AND ELEN JANE HICKEY, OF CORK, IRISH REPUBLIC. HIS BROTHER, BRIAN GLYN HICKEY, ALSO DIED ON SERVICE. FOSTER DOUGLAS MOORE Aircraftman 1st Class Royal Air Force 34 Sqdn. Singapore '619906' SINGAPORE MEMORIAL SON OF JAMES AND MARY FOSTER, OF DUNDRUM, DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. GOODWIN SAMUEL BUSBY Aircraftman 1st Class Royal Air Force 34 Sqdn. Singapore '618214' SINGAPORE MEMORIAL SON OF WILLIAM T. AND GERTRUDE GOODWIN, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. McADAM JOHN Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 41 Sqdn. NI, Co Antrim '748076' ISLAND MAGEE (BALLYHARRY) CEMETERY Born in Kent to Irish parents. Raised in Whitehead, Co Antrim. Body brought back there. O'NEILL DESMOND HUGH Flying Officer Royal Air Force 41 Sqdn. United Kingdom '40638' STREATHAM PARK CEMETERY SON OF LT.-COL. EDWARD MARTIN MARIE O'NEILL, AND ETHEL MAY O'NEILL, OF GLASNEVIN, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC; HUSBAND OF MURIEL O'NEILL. ROBINSON KENNETH BASIL Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 41 Sqdn. United Kingdom '139816' BUCKLAND MONACHORUM CEMETERY SON OF ERNEST S. ROBINSON AND LILIAN M. ROBINSON, OF MONKSTOWN, CO. DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. BADGER JOHN VINCENT CLARENCE D F C Squadron Leader Royal Air Force 43 Sqdn. United Kingdom '33046' HALTON (ST. MICHAEL) CHURCHYARD SON OF JOHN AND VIOLET BADGER, OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND. AWARDED THE SWORD OF HONOUR, R.A.F. COLLEGE, CRANWELL, 14TH JULY, 1933. REID DAVID Corporal Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 43 Sqdn. NI, Belfast '906516' BELFAST (DUNDONALD) CEMETERY SON OF THOMAS B. REID AND SUSANNA REID, OF BELFAST; HUSBAND OF PHYLLIS REID, OF BELMONT, BELFAST. BEAMISH FRANCIS VICTOR D S O and Bar, D F C, A F C Group Captain Royal Air Force 485 (R.N.Z.A.F.) Sqdn. United Kingdom '16089' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF FRANCIS GEORGE BEAMISH, AND OF MARY ELIZABETH BEAMISH, OF CASTLEROCK, CO. DERRY. FENEMORE STANLEY ALLEN Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 501 Sqdn. United Kingdom '745110' LIVERPOOL (ALLERTON) CEMETERY SON OF WILLIAM ALLEN FENEMORE AND GERTRUDE FENEMORE, OF WHITEWELL, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND. GILMOUR WILLIAM Des BRISAY Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 504 Sqdn. NI, Co Tyrone '1073643' CAPPAGH (ST. EUGENIUS) CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD SON OF DR. GEORGE VAN BARNEVELD GILMOUR AND SARA JOHNSTON GILMOUR, OF RATHMINES, DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. McKINNEY SAMUEL ALEXANDER Pilot II Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 54 Sqdn. NI, Belfast '1795958' BELFAST (DUNDONALD) CEMETERY SON OF GEORGE AND ESTHER MCKINNEY, OF BELFAST. HIS BROTHER, ROBERT LOVE MCKINNEY, ALSO DIED ON SERVICE. FUGE BRIAN KENNETH LEVINGE Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force 541 Sqdn. United Kingdom '41394' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF T. L. MARSHAL FUGE AND FRANCIS FUGE, HUSBAND OF OLIVE M. FUGE, OF BANGOR, CO. DOWN. DENNEHY DENIS Aircraftman 2nd Class Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 587 Sqdn. Ireland, Republic of '1798543' CURRYKIPPANE (ST. MARY'S) CEMETERY (SERVED AS J. DENNEHY). SON OF TIMOTHY AND JANE DENNEHY, OF SPANGLE HILL, CORK. FINUCANE BRENDAN EAMONN FERGUS D S O, D F C and 2 Bar Wing Commander Royal Air Force 602 Sqdn. United Kingdom '41276' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF THOMAS ANDREW AND FLORENCE LOUISE FINUCANE, OF RICHMOND, SURREY. [Spitfire Paddy was born in Dublin, lived at Rathmines] JOYNT DUDLEY PERSSE Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force) 609 Sqdn. United Kingdom '90322' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF DUDLEY PERSSE JOYNT AND ETHEL JOYNT, OF SANDYMOUNT, CO. DUBLIN, REPUBLIC OF IRELAND. IRELAND SYDNEY Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 610 Sqdn. NI, Co Down '745103' KNOCKBREDA CEMETERY Born in Belfast. Killed at RAF Biggin Hill in crash. LEECH JOHN GRAHAM Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 610 Sqdn. United Kingdom '1073652' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF NELSON AND GERTRUDE E. LEECH, OF BELFAST. NEILL VICTOR STEPHENSON Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 611 Sqdn. United Kingdom '127166' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF SAMUEL JAMES NEILL AND SARAH JANE NEILL, OF BELFAST, CO. ANTRIM, NORTHERN IRELAND. CROMIE ROBERT STEVENSON Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force) 615 Sqdn. NI, Co Antrim '90485' BALLYMONEY CEMETERY SON OF SAMUEL JAMES CROMIE AND SARAH MORTON CROMIE, OF BALLYMONEY [Co Antrim]; HUSBAND OF MABEL CROMIE, OF COULSDEN, SURREY. M.D., M.M.S.A. He was a medical officer killed in the bombing of RAF Kenley. FISHER ALFRED MANDALE Pilot Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 615 Sqdn. United Kingdom '103592' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF ALFRED AND RITA FISHER, OF BELFAST. McDOWELL WILLIAM GEORGE Pilot Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 615 Sqdn. NI, Co Tyrone '62671' SESKINORE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCHYARD SON OF WILLIAM GEORGE AND MARGARET JANE MCDOWELL, OF BERAGH [Omagh, Tyrone]. MONTGOMERY CECIL ROBERT Pilot Officer Royal Air Force 615 Sqdn. France '42421' OYE-PLAGE COMMUNAL CEMETERY SON OF JOHN AND MARY ELEANOR MONTGOMERY, OF FIVEMILETOWN, CO. TYRONE, NORTHERN IRELAND. GORDON WALTER Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 616 Sqdn. United Kingdom '1016772' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF THOMAS AND CHARLOTTE GORDON, OF BALLYNAHINCH, CO. DOWN. BROOKS WILLIAM BOOTH Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 64 Sqdn. United Kingdom '134120' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF JOHN AND JOSEPHINE MARGARET BROOKS, OF TEMPLEOGUE, CO. DUBLIN, REPUBLIC OF IRELAND. SAUL THOMAS DEREK Twice Mentioned in Despatches Flight Lieutenant Royal Air Force 64 Sqdn. Ireland, Republic of '42080' MOUNT JEROME CEMETERY SON OF JOHN THOMAS AND AMY MATILDA SAUL, OF DUBLIN; HUSBAND OF ELIZABETH MARGARET SAUL, OF LOSSIEMOUTH, MORAYSHIRE. DONALD WILLIAM HORATIO Flying Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 66 Sqdn. United Kingdom '129383' RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL SON OF GEORGE MATHEW AND MARGARET FLORENCE DONALD, OF STILLORGAN, CO. DUBLIN, REPUBLIC OF IRELAND. McCARTHY PATRICK JOSEPH Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 69 Sqdn. France '1797496' ETREVILLE CHURCHYARD SON OF JOHN AND BRIDGET MCCARTHY, OF DUBLIN, IRISH REPUBLIC. McCREA MERVYN FREDERICK Sergeant Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 69 Sqdn. Malta '979398' MALTA MEMORIAL SON OF JOHN F. AND CAROLINE E. MCCREA, OF CLOGHER, CO. TYRONE, NORTHERN IRELAND. WILLIAMS KINGSMILL BRADY CHARLES Warrant Officer Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 72 Sqdn. Italy '1127186' PADUA WAR CEMETERY SON OF KINGSMILL BARNES WILLIAMS AND EDITH MARY WILLIAMS, OF MALLOW, CO. CORK, IRISH REPUBLIC.

tac foley

pmrc wrote: »

Tac it was not my intention to offend any one.
The reason I suggested to my son that the focus on the Irish spitfire pilots was that it had been suggested that the person correcting it would look more favourable on it if he just focused on the Irish pilots.

I'm not offended in the least, and I'm sorry if it came over that way. I'm just trying to emphasize that for us it doesn't really matter...

There is nothing on my grandfather's headstone to tell you that he was Irish.

tac

dresden8

I'll try and dig out my Deighton book. As far as I remember it gave a breakdown of nationalities.

Stovepipe

Have a look at Ignatious "Killy" Kilmartin, No1 Squadron. Flew Hurricanes in France, 1940. Survived the war and emigrated to NZ.

tac foley

Read about six Welsh BoB pilots here...................http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/entries/54092059-834a-3cad-ba1e-211b2cfb382b

I have no doubt that there were Scottish BoB pilots and aircrew as well.

tac