Ring Of Kerry Charity Cycle 2016 - **no entry requests/offers**

funnights74

I'm suspicious about the lottery system, yes the minimum amount is €85 but part of the signing in process there was a question. How much would you expect to raise for the Ring of Kerry charities? I suspect the applicants who put in the greater amounts will be successful in the "lottery"

spookwoman

Persoally I wouldn't be surprised if those who said anything bad don't get in even if they paid to enter

Masala

funnights74 wrote: »

I'm suspicious about the lottery system, yes the minimum amount is €85 but part of the signing in process there was a question. How much would you expect to raise for the Ring of Kerry charities? I suspect the applicants who put in the greater amounts will be successful in the "lottery"

I see r thinking here .... But I think the committee have enought on their plate than to play a game like that. I reckon people 'upped' what they really collected and its this exaggerated figure that is giving the committee a false average collected!!! Sure.. I even padded that figure myself !!!

Do the ROK oganizers publish their accounts?

funnights74

ronoc wrote: »

Do the ROK oganizers publish their accounts?

No, a friend of mine who has completed the ring a few times e-mailed them asking that very question and never received a reply. They do announce final totals but no breakdown of the figures. Much more transparency would be very welcome imo.

laraghrider

This one line in the statement did catch my eye and really smacked of both ignorance and a bit of disrespect:

"In 2014 additional sponsors were brought on board to contribute towards these running costs with the ultimate goal to have 100% of all money raised by cyclists to go to charities. We are aiming to be the very first charity cycle in Ireland to achieve this zero staging cost by 2017."

I've been involved in organizing a few different charity cycles and sportives in this country and a few of those are run each year at zero cost. Due to the humbling and staggering support we've seen from local and large businesses we've managed to run events where 100% of the registration fee has been given to charity. So for them to say they will be the very first is just completely untrue and ignorant to the rest of the cycling community.

mossym

BailMeOut wrote: »

if there was no charge they'd most likely get a very large number of applicants and then after the initial awarding of places are made the uptake would then be much lower meaning the event would be under subscribed. They would then have to mess around with second and third round offers to fill the spots. Its an all volunteer organization where nobody gets paid and they already have enough to be doing organizing the event. Therefore a paid lottery in this case is the only way it can work.

..and I have no doubt the lottery will be not fully subscribed meaning most if not all applicants will get a spot.

you keep posting this, that they'd get multiple entries, but there are lots of ways of avoiding this, one entry per ip address, one entry per login, one entry per email address. lots of races which are heavily oversubscribed in ireland manage to hold a one entry per person entry scheme where you are only charged after you are successful, so there is no reason it can't be done here.

the idea that you have to charge to stop multiple entries is either laziness, greed or lack of knowledge. decide yourself which you think it is

Leroy42

laraghrider wrote: »

This one line in the statement did catch my eye and really smacked of both ignorance and a bit of disrespect:

"In 2014 additional sponsors were brought on board to contribute towards these running costs with the ultimate goal to have 100% of all money raised by cyclists to go to charities. We are aiming to be the very first charity cycle in Ireland to achieve this zero staging cost by 2017."

I've been involved in organizing a few different charity cycles and sportives in this country and a few of those are run each year at zero cost. Due to the humbling and staggering support we've seen from local and large businesses we've managed to run events where 100% of the registration fee has been given to charity. So for them to say they will be the very first is just completely untrue and ignorant to the rest of the cycling community.

Its just hyperbole and PR, wouldn't read too much into it. They are trying to address some negative feedback so they are putting their best foot forward. Most people are not involved in running other events and so would take that line as true without questioning it.

I think the lottery was a good idea, but badly executed. The time and effort they have had to put in to dealing with it and the negative feedback would have been better spent simply increasing the capability of the website to deal with the rush of registration.

mossym

terrydel wrote: »

I spent a week's holidays on the Beara penisula in November and was blown away by it, and thats why Ive finally decided to give this one a crack. The numbers taking part and the fact that the likes of the W200 and SKT160 are tougher has always made me veer towards those in the past.
Looking forward to it, mostly for the scenery and views.

the ROK is a great day out, everyone should do it at least once.

however, just to warn you, the route itself isn't a patch on the beara peninsula, beara is a much nicer cycle with a much better route and scenery. nothing wrong with the ROK, just don't be disappointed

Macy0161

mossym wrote: »

you keep posting this, that they'd get multiple entries, but there are lots of ways of avoiding this, one entry per ip address, one entry per login, one entry per email address. lots of races which are heavily oversubscribed in ireland manage to hold a one entry per person entry scheme where you are only charged after you are successful, so there is no reason it can't be done here.

the idea that you have to charge to stop multiple entries is either laziness, greed or lack of knowledge. decide yourself which you think it is

An automatic, non refundable charge on successful entries would've achieved the same thing, as it would be the same disincentive for multiple entries, even without going for the other options that they could actually use to block multiple entries.

If blocking multiple entries was even the intention - if you were that bothered about getting in, in the financial scheme of the entire weekend, a second entry at €10 probably isn't that much of disincentive. So I'm still going with the it's a racket angle!

BailMeOut

mossym wrote: »

the idea that you have to charge to stop multiple entries is either laziness, greed or lack of knowledge. decide yourself which you think it is

what I am saying is that if it is free to apply then a lot more people will apply which would include a large number of time wasters who will most likely not do the event. This means the legitimate people who want to do this (example me) that our chances of getting a spot would be greatly reduced.

This system rewards those that really want to do the event as discourages those on the fence or only half thinking of doing it to stay away.

The lottery will end up being under subscribed and everyone who applies and wants a place will get a place.

Unless the organizers are willing to start paying people/companies to manage better systems and methods then this is the best way. Remember it is organized by regular people volunteering their own free time. Their goal is to raise as much money as possible for charity while keeping the running costs as low as possible.

Leroy42

But why would the organiser care if people apply multiple times? You enter the lottery and if you are picked then €85 comes out of your account, no ifs, buts, maybes.

So you apply 10 times to try to get a place but end up getting all ten you have cost yourself €765 extra! Nobody is going to do that.

No need for a cost on the entry as those that win end up paying the price.

spookwoman

Bailmeout you lost me there If people apply and get through they have to pay the full 85. I dont think anyone is going to hand over 85 for nothing.


Have a read through last years comments by some of the locals and volunteers. The impression given by some of the snotty comments was they want to keep it to locals and non club members. Comments about it's not a sportif etc. one comment is basically I'm a volunteer and I've raised excess of 85 and anyone who is not raising more that 85 money shouldn't be allowed to do it. They fail to realise or they know and are deliberately blocking them is that these people are making up their 1million +

I'd say 90% of the positive comments are from the locals.

Eamonnator

@BailMeOut
Is it just your opinion, that the lottery will be under subscribed or do you know something, that the rest of us don't.
I ask, because, I entered the lottery twice. I don't know, but I reckon, that an awful lot of people did the same as me.

PeadarCo

ronoc wrote: »

Do the ROK oganizers publish their accounts?

Judging from the CRO they do and looking at the most recent set of account 2014(2015 would be available later in the year I presume) they did make a relatively small loss of about 17k on 1.6 odd million of income. The year before they had a small surplus of 37k on 1.1 million income. So to be fair they do appear to be trying to run the event of a break even basis. The only thing about there accounts is that there's no information on expenses beyond the headline figure. But I don't understand why they don't publicise information like this from their accounts. It would help against the accusations of greed that they're facing.

On the expenses point the fact they don't have any wages listed it would appear that the people who actually run the event don't take any money out of it. Which matches what they publicise.

Masala

There is a piece in the papers recently where a Committee spokesman advised that 9,000 applicants so far in the lottery.......and still over a week or so to the closing date. Whether this is spin or not??

My opinion is the €170 is making people use the Lottery and if they come out then great. If they don't come out- then a decision has to be made as to whether to go with a charity. Again my opinion is that this is where it will fall down with the Charities being left with excess tickets to sell. What happens then...will the Committee be happy to go with a lesser amount of cyclists (say 10,000 instead of 11,000). Is that the who reason behind the pricing - to get numbers back to 8k-10k???

I don't think the Committee realise the amount of anti-feeling that is out there and the amount of people outside of Kerry that will not pay that kind of money - and all for 'Kerry-Only' Charities (well some of them ). I am hearing from my Kerry mates that they not happy about it either and they are on a 'wait and see' attitude as well. The inconsistency is what annoys me...€85 or €170 or €200 or even €250. Imagine cycling the event along side someone who paid €85 and you paid €250 for the exact same experience.

You can see how the Ring of Beara filled out so quick in last 2 weeks. People voting with their feet.

casion3

Masala wrote: »

There is a piece in the papers recently where a Committee spokesman advised that 9,000 applicants so far in the lottery.......and still over a week or so to the closing date. Whether this is spin or not??

My opinion is the €170 is making people use the Lottery and if they come out then great. If they don't come out- then a decision has to be made as to whether to go with a charity. Again my opinion is that this is where it will fall down with the Charities being left with excess tickets to sell. What happens then...will the Committee be happy to go with a lesser amount of cyclists (say 10,000 instead of 11,000). Is that the who reason behind the pricing - to get numbers back to 8k-10k???

I don't think the Committee realise the amount of anti-feeling that is out there and the amount of people outside of Kerry that will not pay that kind of money - and all for 'Kerry-Only' Charities (well some of them ). I am hearing from my Kerry mates that they not happy about it either and they are on a 'wait and see' attitude as well. The inconsistency is what annoys me...€85 or €170 or €200 or even €250. Imagine cycling the event along side someone who paid €85 and you paid €250 for the exact same experience.

You can see how the Ring of Beara filled out so quick in last 2 weeks. People voting with their feet.

I read the organisers statement. Pretty clear to me that it's a charity event. The ring of beara is run by a business.

I have ridden next to people who have raised 1000e so I don't think its an issue.

If people don't wanna support the charities fair enough the road is also there the other 364 days a year.

I haven't done it the last few years cos it's 2 busy, I've ticked the box and I give money to my own charities.

Do I begrudge anybody doing it, no, it's a right of passage for people and for some to its the only event they do.

But the organisers can ask for as much money as they want if people want to keep doing it.
It was there before the cycling boom and most likely will still be after.

I wouldnt loose sleep over it, it's a charity event and people should approach it in that spirit

CB19Kevo

I can actually understand people who do the cycle every year being annoyed at the rising cost's,Its a expensive day out and who knows it may continue to increase.However for many it is a goal to achieve and may be a one off.

I often wonder if people realize the scale of volunteering involved,The massive medical plan being one example.

At the moment demand is too high,and i believe 8000 should be the max on the route in the interests of safety,enjoyment and provision of services.
The current pricing may achieve this reduction and drop the demand to more sustainable levels.Even at this the charities would still receive a helpful increase in funds.

spookwoman

It's gotten to the stage even for a one off its overpriced. Something crossed my mind if people are not handing in their payments then are they insured to cycle? Whats if they are in an accident what happens are the ROK committee liable?

Stoned Since 2011

casion3 wrote: »

If people don't wanna support the charities fair enough the road is also there the other 364 days a year.

They needed be any one throwing their toys out of the pram this year as they can do it anyone of the other 365 days.

mossym

BailMeOut wrote: »

what I am saying is that if it is free to apply then a lot more people will apply which would include a large number of time wasters who will most likely not do the event. This means the legitimate people who want to do this (example me) that our chances of getting a spot would be greatly reduced.

This system rewards those that really want to do the event as discourages those on the fence or only half thinking of doing it to stay away.

.

again, but this is just bull. what stops the exact same happening at all the other races that are over subscribed? other races have held lotteries. what stops people entering multiple times? quite simple.lots of different things

1) you take peoples payment details. you don't charge anyone. if someone gets a spot, charge them straight away. if they get a second spot, charge them again. the risk of being charged multiple times will stop people entering multiple times.
2) i've already said it's easy to limit one per ip one per email, one per login. it's not rocket science. they had to set up the lottery login system in the first place, so arguments about poor volunteers that don't know how are a bit daft.

BailMeOut wrote: »

Their goal is to raise as much money as possible for charity while keeping the running costs as low as possible.

ah,so now we hit the nail on the head. lets be honest. the non refund is nothing to do with limiting entries. it's to make as much money as possible. and it's their event, so they are quite entitled to do it, and if you want to do the event you live with that. no issue there.

but lets stop with the daft suggestion it's to limit entries because honestly, it makes no sense.

in fact, if the lottery is under subscribed, as you say, then it's more likely it put people off, they won't make any extra lottery fees that don't get entries, and all it does is piss people off for no reason.

and you could say if one really wanted to do it, one would have taken a guaranteed , but more expensive lottery slot, than risking the lottery.maybe anyone really serious about doing it would be on the charity path

10 Carrolls

It's a charity cycle in Kerry for local charities. If you don't want to give money to the charities then don't do it. Do it another day if you want to. I don't get how some people say "you don't understand how much work the volunteers have to do" as justification for the price. They're volunteers, they don't get paid, it doesn't make a difference to the price. I hope to do my first this year with a few friends and I'm hoping we all get a place.

PeadarCo

10 Carrolls wrote: »

It's a charity cycle in Kerry for local charities. If you don't want to give money to the charities then don't do it. Do it another day if you want to. I don't get how some people say "you don't understand how much work the volunteers have to do" as justification for the price. They're volunteers, they don't get paid, it doesn't make a difference to the price. I hope to do my first this year with a few friends and I'm hoping we all get a place.

I think most people appreciate all the effort the volunteers put in but its the cyclists that raise the money. If no cyclists turned up, no money would be raised. If your going to raise the entry price to a minimum of €85 you have to make sure your organise an event that makes it worth peoples time to go through the effort to raise the money required. If a person was purely interested in donating money to charity there are plenty of cheaper ways to go about doing it.

The Ring of Kerry organisers put in huge amounts of effort but I think in the last couple of years they've forgotten about people who raised most of the millions they've got over the last couple of years. They should always be front and centre.

Domane

It's 3rd time unlucky for me trying to get into this event. Injured two years ago, couldn't get an entry through the crappy crashing website last year and this year, well let's just say that the "lottery" just put me off even trying. I don't mind the "charity" angle but I feel that they're just "padding" out the price with the lottery fee and then there's the cost of accommodation, travelling to and from Kerry etc. Its just too damn expensive for me to justify the cost of it all for a days cycling. I've done the Ring by myself and while the scenery was fantastic for the most part, the slog from Sneem to Kenmare was actually quite desolate and seemingly unending. That's why I'd like to have taken part in this event to have company along the way, especially for that part of the route that for some reason almost sucked the will to live out of me. Even the uphill 10km climb from Kenmare to Molls Gap was a welcome relief!

Have to,try to get a few mates to do the Ring of Kerry with me again, once you lot have had your day out!😉

lescol

July 16th! Pat's Ring of Kerry Cycling Challenge

https://www.facebook.com/groups/699176210217670/?fref=ts

neerb

Anyone experiencing problems applying online for the lottery - server is slow - may have left it late ?

funnights74

neerb wrote: »

Anyone experiencing problems applying online for the lottery - server is slow - may have left it late ?

Today is the final registration day so there may have been a late rush.

Macy0161

neerb wrote: »

Anyone experiencing problems applying online for the lottery - server is slow - may have left it late ?

The initial justification for the lottery was the servers not being able to cope with a rush, and then it crashes for lottery applications too!

my friend

Eamonnator wrote: »

I wonder, could a bike shop or bike chain be brought in as a partner, and have bike personnel at registration, giving bikes a quick once over. They could also have tubes, puncture repair outfits and basic mini pumps for sale.

And maybe clubs could provide cyclists for them too

tuch

Very telling that it is now February and registration for the lottery which was due to close at end of January is still open.

Have the committee in their greed miscalculated?