Water Meters

smilgy

Has anybody been able to listen to the water meters installed outside their houses?

The water meter outside our house is the Diehl IZAR RC model that transmits every 8 seconds at 868 MHz. I was able to verify this using my SDR dongle (got some weird looks from the neighbours too!). I am able to pick up my meter and those in the surrounding area.

The protocol this water meter uses is the M-Bus. It appears someone has written a piece of software to decode the messages transmitted from the water meter, called gr-wmbus however, there is no documentation. Using my limited linux knowledge, I tried installing GNU Radio and then gr-wmbus but failed.

There is also the issue of the data transmitted being encrypted.

I guess what I'm asking is has anyone else tried something similar, what results have you had?

The only other user I have been able to find talking about is in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88771619&postcount=13

Also, pardon me if this is the wrong forum.

thelordgod

And what do you hope to receive? - the meter reading? No wonder the neighbours are looking at you. Its not a 2 way process AFAIK so there is nothing to hack. It just broadcasts the meter number and the reading. I can find out exactly what is sent but there is little point as you cant change it.

smilgy

thelordgod wrote: »

And what do you hope to receive? - the meter reading? No wonder the neighbours are looking at you. Its not a 2 way process AFAIK so there is nothing to hack. It just broadcasts the meter number and the reading. I can find out exactly what is sent but there is little point as you cant change it.

Yes precisely, the reading. Its purely out of curiosity rather than anything. I am also aware its only one way. RTL SDR does not have transmit capabilities.

If it were possible to decode it, a script could be written to monitor your water consumption and visualise the data.

thelordgod

I see your point but its overkill I think. Unless you have a swimming pool or a massive leak you should not need to sit outside with the laptop checking the meter. How far away could you receive it?

Also its not linux specific - the meter readers are running Windows CE

smilgy

thelordgod wrote: »

I see your point but its overkill I think. Unless you have a swimming pool or a massive leak you should not need to sit outside with the laptop checking the meter. How far away could you receive it?

Also its not linux specific - the meter readers are running Windows CE

I was able to receive it from inside the house with just a length of coax as an antenna. With anything more substantial I'm sure the whole street could be received. The only reason I went outside was to confirm it was my own water meter.

The software I mentioned in my first post is Linux, rather than what the water meters use. I have no idea what they've been programmed. I assume something very lightweight as they are battery powered and battery life is 15+ years.

thelordgod

I would imagine most decoding software would be designed to run on handheld devices and information will be very limited (commercial companies are not going to give out the source of the software) so unless you are a programmer and available to use the libraries then you are probably out of luck. That post you referrred to gives plently of clues. Anyway if the data is encrypted then you are dealing with hacking (its not your data - its Irish Water's) and as such should not be discussed on the forum. I am sure a mod will clarify this.

deaglan169

there are loads of linux based programs out there to decode meters, none for this model but a few are listed here http://www.rtl-sdr.com/big-list-rtl-sdr-supported-software/ im sure some of them would decode the meter's here, be interesting to see what range they have

smilgy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUD-ySL2oV8

This is the piece of code I was talking in my original post. The author did a presentation about it at some conference. Very interesting I think.

amovingstatue

thelordgod wrote: »

I would imagine most decoding software would be designed to run on handheld devices and information will be very limited (commercial companies are not going to give out the source of the software) so unless you are a programmer and available to use the libraries then you are probably out of luck. That post you referrred to gives plently of clues. Anyway if the data is encrypted then you are dealing with hacking (its not your data - its Irish Water's) and as such should not be discussed on the forum. I am sure a mod will clarify this.

sweet mother of .... you

call the church police

TheChizler

Isn't the data AES128 encrypted? They hardly publish the key... I had someone swear to me that it was two way comms only as well, to extend battery life and was why they wouldn't provide home readers to keep an eye on usage, though I know from working in the field that it's entirely possible to have a broadcast every few seconds or so for a number of years.

Actually there must be some two-way mode enabled, as they're supposed to record the date of last reading, consumption since last reading, etc, aren't they?

watty

Actually there must be some two-way mode enabled, as they're supposed to record the date of last reading, consumption since last reading, etc, aren't they?

That can be done automatically on the database. Daft to be writing that to the meter.

TheChizler

watty wrote: »

That can be done automatically on the database. Daft to be writing that to the meter.

Can't remember where I heard that, I also heard from the same source that they would only respond to interrogation, no periodic transmit, so maybe that person was talking nonsense. Some sort of historic stats would make sense though.

Edit: It's a basic document but it looks like they use a mixture: https://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-Meters-and-AMR-technology-English-08082014.pdf

watty

I also heard from the same source that they would only respond to interrogation, no periodic transmit

That could be true and makes sense. But there is no need whatsoever to WRITE to it. c.f. a Dumb barcode on a library book. Everything you need to know is in the database.
Also totally nuts to write data to patient card, retail RFID card etc, should just be a unique ID to look up the database.

Don't get started on HOW INSANELY DUMB anything biometric is, such as a door key, credit card, phone, passport.
New unique IDs and PINs and/or passwords can be created. You can't change your eyeballs, fingerprints etc WHEN (not if) the data is stolen or cloned (easy with passports, RFID tags, door keys etc).

ED E

watty wrote: »

That could be true and makes sense. But there is no need whatsoever to WRITE to it. c.f. a Dumb barcode on a library book. Everything you need to know is in the database.
Also totally nuts to write data to patient card, retail RFID card etc, should just be a unique ID to look up the database.

While I agree with you, thats exactly what Luas/Leap cards do.


It would make sense to have a passive chip that was induced by the reader if the meters didnt have to actively monitor usage anyways. OP the keys must be hardcoded into the meter, if you could get your hands on a spare you might be able to latch onto the pinouts and determine what it is. And once you have one you have them all.

watty

It would make sense to have a passive chip that was induced by the reader if the meters didnt have to actively monitor usage anyways.

No, from point of view of inter-meter interference it makes no sense to transmit unless asked.

amen

thelordgod wrote: »

I would imagine most decoding software would be designed to run on handheld devices and information will be very limited (commercial companies are not going to give out the source of the software) so unless you are a programmer and available to use the libraries then you are probably out of luck. That post you referrred to gives plently of clues. Anyway if the data is encrypted then you are dealing with hacking (its not your data - its Irish Water's) and as such should not be discussed on the forum. I am sure a mod will clarify this.

Hmm. Is I really Irish Waters data though? The data records your water usage and can you not just go and manualy read the meter ?

Wonder what the dpc thinks about the data ownership ?

Capt'n Midnight

smilgy wrote: »

I have no idea what they've been programmed. I assume something very lightweight as they are battery powered and battery life is 15+ years.

Not sure how they are powered , but you can buy shower heads with LED's that are powered by the flow of the water.

thelordgod

amen wrote: »

Hmm. Is I really Irish Waters data though? The data records your water usage and can you not just go and manualy read the meter ?

Wonder what the dpc thinks about the data ownership ?

Of course its Irish Water's data - it is their meter measuring the amount of water it supplies to a customer. There would be no logical issue for them to have an issue with customers getting a manual reading but there are practical concerns. The data is encrypted and legally must be (to protect it). You might think that the meter reading is of no use to anyone else but I can think of a few reasons: persons selling water saving/recycling devices etc, also thieves may be interested - if a premises uses no/very little water then chances are there's nobody home. Irish water will not supply you with a device to read it as then you will be able to read all other meters (which would be none of your business!).

I have no affiliation with them and personally think its all a scam to make more money for denis o'b.

thelordgod

thelordgod wrote: »

Of course its Irish Water's data - it is their meter measuring the amount of water it supplies to a customer. There would be no logical issue for them to have an issue with customers getting a manual reading but there are practical concerns. The data is encrypted and legally must be (to protect it). You might think that the meter reading is of no use to anyone else but I can think of a few reasons: persons selling water saving/recycling devices etc, also thieves may be interested - if a premises uses no/very little water then chances are there's nobody home. Irish water will not supply you with a device to read it as then you will be able to read all other meters (which would be none of your business!).

I have no affiliation with them and personally think its all a scam to make more money for denis o'b.

Well Irish Water is owned by the state, the citizens of the state own the state so in effect Irish water is owned by us.