TUF 22 - Europe vs USA (McGregor & Faber coaching)**Contains Spoilers**

Mellor

Episode 1 only airing tonight here, i feel like i've probably already seen all the worthwhile highlights already

reganreggie

They were both very poor. Sasha looked beaten from early in the second. Hope conor doesn't go overboard lashing him out of it in front of the others

John_D80

Very disappointing showing from Sascha, after he easily won the first round and looked good doing it. He's obviously good on the ground but he was far too willing to sacrifice position in the hope of setting up subs and it cost him. Did he think he was winning on the ground maybe?

His movement on bottom in round two was very good to be fair, so I think he could have got back to his feet quite easily if he really wanted to. So frustrating to watch when he could have won it in two rounds by keeping it on the feet.

DeVore

just... bizarre...

Its like Conor said, he got a triangle in the first and its like he fell in love with it.
Theres a difference between your corner just shouting "Stand up" and your corner shouting "Keep it standing up!" ... The American on his feet was slow, eating shots and didn't seem to have a credible threat... Its understandable to make a bad decision in the heat of a fight but to consistently and repeatedly make that decision round after round against the advice of your corner... just... bizarre...

Foxtrol

He did eat one massive knee to the body just before he started to continuously keep it on the ground. It's possible that hurt him and he was trying to avoid another similar shot.

JJayoo

Sascha gassed, could barley make it to his feet after the second round.

Pulse8

A peek behind the curtain at the "real" McGregor here, thought it a very poignant moment for'em & was surprised he had no comeback

https://streamable.com/5qli

Tinie

Pulse8 wrote: »

A peek behind the curtain at the "real" McGregor here, thought it a very poignant moment for'em & was surprised he had no comeback

https://streamable.com/5qli

I think even Uriah was surprised there that he just agreed with him.

Depp

Slightly off topic but i noticed this this morning, no way the lad with the usa headband is just sitting there with a fag hanging out his mouth? am i seeing things?

Subcomandante Marcos

Watching this now, there is not an ounch of wrestling or Jiu Jitsu in Gritz, he's literally just a brawler. Sashca was just so poor from guard that gritz was able to manhandle him. It was a really messy fight to watch.

CatFromHue

Pulse8 wrote: »

A peek behind the curtain at the "real" McGregor here, thought it a very poignant moment for'em & was surprised he had no comeback

https://streamable.com/5qli

There is no comeback, what Faber is saying is right and McGregor knows it.

Pulse8

Anyone get a newsletter code for the TUF sale this evening?

Didnt get anything in the inbox & Ticketmaster lists a "UFC Sale" today

ricero

Have to say Faber comes across as genuine sound fella. Regarding McGregors supposed lack of enthusiasm i think i saw an interview recently where he admitted he didnt really want to do it but after a few days he got stuck into it. i say we will gradually see this over the next few weeks

DeVore

Whats McGregor supposed to do about Sascha's performance? He fought stupidly, you cant train intelligence into someone!

He was told what to do, repeatedly (if it wasn't already obvious to him) ... he chose not to do it. At some point these guys have to take responsibility for their own actions and Sascha made bad calls that no amount of training is going to correct.

Zero-Cool

Great episode aside from from the shyte fight. Obvious from the first round that Sasha did NOT like getting hit but it was horrible to watch him pull guard constantly and look for a sub but then watch him get bust open on the ground. Actually great to see Conor get so invested, not the whole 'in it for himself' he wants people to believe. Puts him in a much better light.

Best part was the whole TJ and Ludwig convo, Conor saying it like it is. That mixed with Fabers rant about Bang during the week is pointing to this subject being the highlight of the season.

Bit cringey Artem trying to stick up for Conor

Dtp1979

Depp wrote: »

Slightly off topic but i noticed this this morning, no way the lad with the usa headband is just sitting there with a fag hanging out his mouth? am i seeing things?

Ye I noticed that too. Very strange

TherapyBoy

I don't think it matters how many training sessions McGregor shows up to if the fighter can't follow simple instructions.

Whatever about the first two rounds he was told straight before the start of the third round - stay on your feet & let your fists go, don't go to your back, stay on top - round starts & he shoots, within the first 5 seconds he's on his back with his opponent on top of him.

Not sure whether it would have changed the outcome but I'd like to have seen him keep it standing, I can understand McGregors frustration.

Depp

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ye I noticed that too. Very strange

Its definitely what it is aswel you can see the brown of the filter, didnt think thatd be allowed much less be allowed to be shown on television

Subcomandante Marcos

TherapyBoy wrote: »

I don't think it matters how many training sessions McGregor shows up to if the fighter can't follow simple instructions.

It's like Mike Tyson says. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the head.

CurryFlavoured

That guys fight IQ is shocking but seeing Conor effing and blinding, and shouting 'Up!' the whole time isn't good. He should really be in the corner too. When he jumped for that takedown a second into the 3rd I kind of hoped that Conor would jump in and kill him himself though.

Gritz was getting a bit of hype but he's average and you could see it from the entry fight where he ate loads of shots.

JJayoo

Do people not realize that he was 100% gassed going into the third, getting a takedown was basically his only chance.

Check 35.38 the guy is so fcuked that he isn't even trying to hide it

Mellor

Depp wrote: »

Its definitely what it is aswel you can see the brown of the filter, didnt think thatd be allowed much less be allowed to be shown on television

Why would it not be allowed on television?
Or in real-life for that matter.

BOHtox

Corner: Now you're to stay on your feet. Attack standing up. Stay on your feet. You have him if you stay on your feet.

Sasha: Right. *Nods head affirmatively

bell rings*

Sasha goes to ground

Corner just despairs*

CatFromHue

That's what being a coach is all about.

You talk to any level of coach in any sport and they'll have the exact same story.

The good coaches though will have a few, maybe not alot, stories of when the guy actually stood up!

If it was just as simple as doing what you're coach told you there'd be no doubt as to who where the best coaches.

MrStuffins

Not a single comment on Conor not bothering to corner his fighter and instead sits ringside calling his a b*tch and a p*ssy? What kind of coach sits at ringside screaming insults at his fighter.

I can completely understand his frustration, but that was way out of line in my opinion!

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not a single comment on Conor not bothering to corner his fighter and instead sits ringside calling his a b*tch and a p*ssy? What kind of coach sits at ringside screaming insults at his fighter.

I can completely understand his frustration, but that was way out of line in my opinion!

Why is it an issue if he's not in the corner? Conor has Owen Roddy and Tom Egan to corner for his team. Two guys that have a lot more experience than McGregor has when it comes to coaching and cornering.

I thought it was the smart move by Conor to leave the coaching/cornering to the real coaches.

shrapnel222

John_D80 wrote: »

Why is it an issue if he's not in the corner? Conor has Owen Roddy and Tom Egan to corner for his team. Two guys that have a lot more experience than McGregor has when it comes to coaching and cornering.

I thought it was the smart move by Conor to leave the coaching/cornering to the real coaches.

well in that case he should just stfu and let the corner coaches do the coaching.

Can't stand back seat coaches :pac:

MrStuffins

John_D80 wrote: »

Why is it an issue if he's not in the corner? Conor has Owen Roddy and Tom Egan to corner for his team. Two guys that have a lot more experience than McGregor has when it comes to coaching and cornering.

I thought it was the smart move by Conor to leave the coaching/cornering to the real coaches.

My main issue isn't him not being in the corner, it's the abuse he was shouting at the guy. He doesn't want to corner the guy, but he still wants to scream out instructions and then starts calling him a b*tch and a p*ssy. Out of order IMO.

CatFromHue

Are there specific rules to being a cornerman over there?

He was out of line and shouldn't have been having a go at the guy in the dressing room after. Sascha was breathing very hard at the start of the second round, let alone in the third.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

My main issue isn't him not being in the corner, it's the abuse he was shouting at the guy. He doesn't want to corner the guy, but he still wants to scream out instructions and then starts calling him a b*tch and a p*ssy. Out of order IMO.

IMO McGregor was well within his rights to feel annoyed at the way the fight was going and at the way his fighter was throwing away what should have been a comfortable win in 2 rounds. People might be critical of him as a coach and the amount of time he spends with fighters but at the end of the day he is giving up his personal time to do this show. I'd be pissed off as well.

He called the guy a few names in the heat of the moment. Big deal. He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.

Did you not see Mcgregor speaking plainly (albeit brutally honestly) and very calmly after the fight in the dressing room? If he was animated and a bit OTT during the fight it was because he wanted to give the lad a bit of kick in the arse as he was throwing the fight away.

MrStuffins

John_D80 wrote: »

IMO McGregor was well within his rights to feel annoyed at the way the fight was going and at the way his fighter was throwing away what should have been a comfortable win in 2 rounds. People might be critical of him as a coach and the amount of time he spends with fighters but at the end of the day he is giving up his personal time to do this show. I'd be pissed off as well.

He called the guy a few names in the heat of the moment. Big deal. He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.

Did you not see Mcgregor speaking plainly (albeit brutally honestly) and very calmly after the fight in the dressing room? If he was animated and a bit OTT during the fight it was because he wanted to give the lad a bit of kick in the arse as he was throwing the fight away.

It's not a matter of "He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it." IMO. You could say that about anything.

"Oh, he hit him after the bell? Well he's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.".

it's about being professional and being appropriate. He was neither at cageside.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's not a matter of "He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it." IMO. You could say that about anything.

"Oh, he hit him after the bell? Well he's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.".

it's about being professional and being appropriate. He was neither at cageside.

According to your standards maybe but you dont speak for everyone in fairness.

He was tasked with taking control of the team and overseeing the running of same as best he could according to his own standards.

Seriously, we're getting our knickers in a twist here over a little name-calling in the heat of a highly charged moment? FFS. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

John_D80 wrote: »

According to your standards maybe but you dont speak for everyone in fairness.

I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. Read my posts and find that I have put "IMO" in each one.

He was tasked with taking control of the team and overseeing the running of same as best he could according to his own standards.

Seriously, we're getting our knickers in a twist here over a little name-calling in the heat of a highly charged moment? FFS. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

In fact, in all of the fights i've watched and attended i've never heard it. Maybe it happens, but i've never heard it (off the top of my head).

He acted inappropriately IMO

CatFromHue

He'll have lost some respect from the fighters after it and I doubt himself and Sascha will be too pally after it either.

It's a strange environment though as it doesn't matter, they're not there for him.

In any other team environment it would matter though.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. Read my posts and find that I have put "IMO" in each one.



How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

In fact, in all of the fights i've watched and attended i've never heard it. Maybe it happens, but i've never heard it (off the top of my head).

He acted inappropriately IMO

Hugs and cuddles all round!

The Nasty McGregor Man made the poor fighter feel bad.

John_D80

Of course its a discussion forum. Its just a bit of banter mate. Nothing personal. No offence intended.

DeVore

Was Faber cornering his guy? I didn't think the coaches usually cornered their fighters in TUF... could be wrong though!

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXHxhDMBBY

In reality, in that moment sascha needed a kick in the arse to perhaps win the match and the rest of the team might not like it but the point wont be lost on them and perhaps they'll pay more attention in their fights. I might have worded it differently but I would definitely still have made my feeling clear. No point in molly coddling these guys, they want to be top of their sport and that only comes from near fanatical dedication and brutal honesty about the flaws in your game.


Sidenote: If you have ever played basketball seriously (and I have) you know what coaches can be like if you put a foot out of line. (and don't start me on the refs... I once looked sideways at a ref for a terrible call he made, just *looked* at him and he called a technical foul on me and chewed me out ). I hear the abuse football players give the ref in the premiership and I'm gobsmacked... basketball refs can arbitrarily change the score, dismiss you from the team and have you ejected from the *building* and I've seen all of those done
If you say anything to them but "yes sir, no sir" your coach will pull you off the floor and chew you a new one.

MrStuffins

DeVore wrote: »

Was Faber cornering his guy? I didn't think the coaches usually cornered their fighters in TUF... could be wrong though!

I'll need to watch it back but i'm almost sure he was. He certainly wasn't sitting on the bench where Conor was.

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXHxhDMBBY

MMA isn't an "American sport" as such. And i'm sure it happens in American Football, on Broadway and at the Ballet. Doesn't make it appropriate.

CatFromHue

There's giving a guy a kick in the arse and then there's straight out insulting him though.

I'm fairly sure I saw Faber in the octogon between rounds.

JJayoo

DeVore wrote: »

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches!

Such a strange comparison
Instead why not compare Conor's antics to other MMA coaches, I have never seen someone lose the cool like that during a fight, well maybe rampage when he decided to remove the door.

I think if John Kavanagh was there you would see a much calmer and in control Conor.

Devastator

MrStuffins wrote: »

How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

Ken Shamrock shouted "you p*ssy" and "You b*tch" during every single fight although it was probably directed at Tito and not his fighter

Axwell

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'll need to watch it back but i'm almost sure he was. He certainly wasn't sitting on the bench where Conor was.

Edit: Just had a quick check. Hes actually cage side for most of the fight and does corner in between rounds.

Hazys

The whole Conor not coaching all the time is a little weird to me. I know the TUF setup has Conor down as the main coach but at the end of the day Conor is a fighter not a coach. Faber has been coaching for years so i makes sense for him to be the main coach.

Conor is a fighter with experience and he can teach the guys one or two things when training with them but as for setting up training schedules, managing sessions, setting goals, managing groups, knowing what to focus on, etc., i can only imagine he has little experience. It takes Coaches years of coaching to master the art. Conor knows well that he should take a back seat to the coaching and let the experts who've got him to where he is today, coach.

MartyMcFly84

The whole Conor not coaching all the time is a little weird to me. I know the TUF setup has Conor down as the main coach but at the end of the day Conor is a fighter not a coach. Faber has been coaching for years so i makes sense for him to be the main coach.

Conor is a fighter with experience and he can teach the guys one or two things when training with them but as for setting up training schedules, managing sessions, setting goals, managing groups, knowing what to focus on, etc., i can only imagine he has little experience. It takes Coaches years of coaching to master the art. Conor knows well that he should take a back seat to the coaching and let the experts who've got him to where he is today, coach.

Well its kind of been the blue print of the Ultimate fighter since the start. Where more established fighters coach fighters who want to get into the UFC.

That is why the fighters bring coaching teams. It is taken that they might not actually be great coaches themselves, and normally they bring their actual coaches from back home

CatFromHue

One of the American lads writes a weekly blog of what happened on MMA Junkie.

This is his thoughts on the fight, which I think we can all agree on

The next day comes and we go to the fight. Sascha started out a little better than I had expected. He landed a few punches some good knees and even a takedown of his own. Chris is a bit of a grinder though, he weathered that and kept coming forward and ended the round on top. I’d still say Sascha won the first, but after that it was all downhill for him. You could see that he had broken. He was shooting from so far out, then when he had opportunities to get back to his feet he would pull back into guard. Conor was loosing it; he threw his glasses at the cage. He started calling Sascha a p-ssy and a b-tch. I actually felt bad for the guy at a certain point.

They went to a third, and it was more of the same. Sascha kept pulling guard and turtling up, Conor kept yelling, and Chris kept punching him.

and his thoughts on the new rules

At the end of practice is when they hit us with the announcement of bringing the two fighters back, and that one of the winning fights would be scrapped if it wasn’t entertaining enough. I won’t lie: I was a little pissed about that. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought this happened because McGregor wanted Artem back on the show. I thought, “What if my fight isn’t entertaining enough and I get pulled? I fought my ass off my first fight and I can get knocked out like that?”

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/09/the-ultimate-fighter-22-blog-james-jenkins-on-episode-no-2

Zero-Cool

I actually like the new rule. Sick of TUF wrestlers grinding their way to wins to secure the contract.

cletus

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I actually like the new rule. Sick of TUF wrestlers grinding their way to wins to secure the contract.

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

Dtp1979

cletus wrote: »

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

What's this new rule?

Subcomandante Marcos

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What's this new rule?

Instead of 8 guys in the 1/4 finals there are 9, so instead of 4 guys moving on to the semi finals, there will be 5, and one of those will be cut based on whether or not Dana White likes his style. It's a load of bollocks.

jjdonegal

cletus wrote: »

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

Well said. It's an awful precedent to set. I have never had a problem with world class wrestlers neutralising guys and grinding out the victory.