TUF 22 - Europe vs USA (McGregor & Faber coaching)**Contains Spoilers**

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

What about when a team is unbeaten in a 6 side group but scores no extra points... they get 15 points (5 games x 3 points)
Another side is beaten by the first team but then goes on to win their 4 remaining games with an extra point each time. They get 16 points. (4 games x 4 points).

The latter team advances while the unbeaten side doesn't.

If a win is a win is a win... then why does the team with fewer but "flashier" wins go through?

The extra point was brought in to encourage teams to go for tries (exciting!) rather than kicking points. Its blatantly messing with the game for the sake of the viewership and I would have MORE of an issue with it because its part of the main sport proper, than some rule on an arbitrary game show.

Aren't there 5 teams per group, not 6. And it's 4 for a win. So 20 points for both teams. So it would come down to some other metric.

Regardless, That example is still performance based, on the criteria for everyone. The TUF equivalent in rugby would be tied results settled by the president picking a team.

DeVore

I wasn't trying to refer to the Rugby world cup or anything specific, I was constructing a situation where the extra point makes the difference between one team going through and the others not, despite having more "wins".

If the first team doesn't go through despite having more "wins" then clearly "wins" isn't the deciding factor.

reganreggie

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Weirdly enough, it's so that there are more like LIKE Nelson that White bright in this rule, "spectacular" strikers who can light someone up on their feet rather than smart fighters who can grind their opponents down.

In fairness to Nelson, he's known for making fights fun to watch with that overhand right.

Nelson is that striker now but when he was on tuf his fights were extremely frustrating to watch.

Foxtrol

DeVore wrote: »

I wasn't trying to refer to the Rugby world cup or anything specific, I was constructing a situation where the extra point makes the difference between one team going through and the others not, despite having more "wins".

If the first team doesn't go through despite having more "wins" then clearly "wins" isn't the deciding factor.

So you’re pulling something out of your arse in order to suit your argument?

There has also been zero mention of someone having a loss going through over someone who won, so I don’t even see what kind of argument you’re making. It’s only the least exciting of the winners that wont be going through.

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

I wasn't trying to refer to the Rugby world cup or anything specific, I was constructing a situation where the extra point makes the difference between one team going through and the others not, despite having more "wins".

Does this happen in any sport other than the rugby world cup? Maybe, but I can't think of one.

If the first team doesn't go through despite having more "wins" then clearly "wins" isn't the deciding factor.

Come on Tom, you know what a strawman is.
I never say "wins" was the deciding factor, I said "performance". The bonus points are awarded based on performance, be it number of tries score, or a narrow defeat, or both.

If TUF proposed finishes being worth more than decisions, for seeding purposes ot whatever - that'd be fine imo, they already get a cash bonus as it is.
But at the bottom end of it, we are going to have a 3-5 guys who all won by decision over 3 rounds. 1 of these won't go through.

As I said above, hopefully this is just a kick up the arse, and the decision will be removed due to eventual injury. But if its down to the wire, eliminating somebody on a pick is a bit shitty.

CatFromHue

Trailer for this weeks episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PUJQcH4NgM

Looks like his out burst did actually piss off his team

Knex*

The people on about it in that trailer were American fighters, no?

Mellor

this is relevant to this season, sort of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWt5YkfnaA

Knex*

I really enjoy listening to Hall speak

Subcomandante Marcos

I want Ryan Hall to be my boyfriend.

Foxtrol

Good to see Conor admit that he went a bit too far last week even if it was tough love.

Glad the European's got the win, though I wish they'd take that mike off Conor. Think you could narrow down his advice to 4 phrases.

"Jab, Right Hand, Left Hook"
"Patience, Marcin"
"His legs are dead"

Exclamation Marc

Foxtrol wrote: »

Good to see Conor admit that he went a bit too far last week even if it was tough love.

Glad the European's got the win, though I wish they'd take that mike off Conor. Think you could narrow down his advice to 4 phrases.

"Jab, Right Hand, Left Hook"
"Patience, Marcin"
"His legs are dead"

Don't forget his constant "Beauuuuuuuuuuutiful" shout, starting to grind on me.

Good episode this week.

Subcomandante Marcos

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

Don't forget his constant "Beauuuuuuuuuuutiful" shout, starting to grind on me.

Good episode this week.

He's got nothing, he's not nothing for you".

DeVore

Tom should have known he wasn't going to get that choke in in the first round, he was always precariously high on his opponents back. Smart play by the polish lad not panicing though and he seriously has some good crisp punches...
Bit of a sloppy fight in general but not bad all round!

I want to ask Faber if he thinks having Conor in the morning practises would have prevented Sascha from pulling guard and kept it standing? Does he really think that would have been the difference? Seriously?

They had what, 10 training sessions before his fight? Conor is right, by this stage the cake is baked and all he is required for is a little extra icing on it now. He cant change someone radically in 10 training sessions.... he'd just tire them out.

That's another thing that drives me batty about the house, guys who arrive and say "I'm gonna work hard on my cardio" .... Cardio takes months of long, intensive training. Its not something you build in 6 weeks in a house drinking beers. Its not something you can really build in 6 weeks in a gym! Really changing your cardio levels takes much longer than that imho.

Lago

Foxtrol wrote: »

Good to see Conor admit that he went a bit too far last week even if it was tough love.

Glad the European's got the win, though I wish they'd take that mike off Conor. Think you could narrow down his advice to 4 phrases.

"Jab, Right Hand, Left Hook"
"Patience, Marcin"
"His legs are dead"

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

Don't forget his constant "Beauuuuuuuuuuutiful" shout, starting to grind on me.

Good episode this week.

Surely I can't be the only the one hearing "ata' boy" about 20 times an episode?

DeVore wrote: »

Tom should have known he wasn't going to get that choke in in the first round, he was always precariously high on his opponents back. Smart play by the polish lad not panicing though and he seriously has some good crisp punches...
Bit of a sloppy fight in general but not bad all round!

I want to ask Faber if he thinks having Conor in the morning practises would have prevented Sascha from pulling guard and kept it standing? Does he really think that would have been the difference? Seriously?

They had what, 10 training sessions before his fight? Conor is right, by this stage the cake is baked and all he is required for is a little extra icing on it now. He cant change someone radically in 10 training sessions.... he'd just tire them out.

That's another thing that drives me batty about the house, guys who arrive and say "I'm gonna work hard on my cardio" .... Cardio takes months of long, intensive training. Its not something you build in 6 weeks in a house drinking beers. Its not something you can really build in 6 weeks in a gym! Really changing your cardio levels takes much longer than that imho.

I really wish we would have got an explanation from Sascha as to why he just kept flopping on the ground. Before the fight he had been saying how important it was to him. I've never seen someone do that in a fight.

I'd personally disagree with the cardio thing but I mean, you get top facilities and training from elite athletes and their coaches and you want to work on your cardio? GTFO

CatFromHue

What did these guys do before they entered the house?

If they weren't full time athletes I think they could actually get an improvement in their cardio in a few weeks. Not a massive amount but still some sort of boost.

DeVore

I would presume they are all full time athletes... most of them say that they dropped out of college or their previous job to concentrate on fighting.

If they were greenhorns then yes, 6 weeks will make an impact on your cardio but at the level they are at?? That should all have been worked up long ago. Plus as Lago says, why would you waste that time with top coaches on a treadmill or bike etc.

Conor is right, its all about the software now. He can show them a ton of things in an evening session that they could spend every morning that WEEK practising and still not perfect. They shouldn't need him to hold their hands, any real champ is going to be first into that gym and last out at night.

CatFromHue

I dunno if Sascha gassed so badly in his fight I'd say he could be doing some extra work on his fitness.

It reminds me of when rugby turned pro and all the players were "professional" when in reality they were far far from it.

It's easy to say these guys shouldn't need him to hold their hands but there's a difference between hand holding and actually helping someone to be a real pro.

Saying they shouldn't need their hands held is a bit of a cop out really.

DeVore

He might well need to work on his fitness... my point is that he's not going to be able to do that inside 2 weeks in the house.

A coach can show you an escape or a combo in 5 minutes but take you several sessions to train it until it becomes muscle memory and reflexive. When I say they shouldn't need their hands held, I mean that once they are shown something in an evening class, they shouldn't need to have Conor there in the morning to watch them drill it.

Conor being in the trainings in the morning wouldn't have made one iota difference to Sascha's fight.

CatFromHue

In an ideal world no he wouldn't but in reality if they're doing it wrong or not 100% right in the morning then who's there to tell them and help perfect it?

Or equally if they get it and are doing it perfectly then who's there to tell them it and move on to the next thing?

I agree him being there or not didn't make any difference to Sascha's fight. How long did they have between fights in real life?

DeVore

There are other coaches (professional coaches) there for that. Conor is a great fighter, but he's not a trained coach. The other coaches should work the practises the next morning. A bit like a lecture and then afterwards you to go a tutorial to ensure you understood it... the lecturer doesn't go to that, he leaves that to postgrads!

dulux99

Conor showing up and "training" the team is a pure gimmick created for the cameras. As other people have said, conor isn't a trained coach. Of course he could show them some cool stuff but the likes of Owen Roddy is far more qualified to actually train the guys

MrStuffins

Faber needlng McGregor about turning up to the training sessions is just a wind up tactic from him, and it seems to work. McGregor has all the mouth, but Faber has this one thing to hold over him.

cletus

I think Faber is coming across really well here. All of his slagging with Conor is pretty friendly, nothing really aggressive, whereas McGregor tends to get very personal very quickly, like he fels the need to win every verbal joust

shrapnel222

cletus wrote: »

I think Faber is coming across really well here. All of his slagging with Conor is pretty friendly, nothing really aggressive, whereas McGregor tends to get very personal very quickly, like he fels the need to win every verbal joust

agreed, but i think mcgregor is starting to loosen up and was a bit more chilled in that episode (he was less aggressive basically). Usually i'd cringe every time it was the 2 of them talking, whereas this time it seemed friendlier and a lot less tense.

MrStuffins

I think if Conor wasn't playing the part of the mouth they'd probably get on pretty well. Like, wasn't it weird that they were "wrestling" with each other in the hallway joking around? I don't think Tito & Ken would've been doing that.

cletus

Yeah, its like Conor made up his mind before the show to not like Faber. The wrestling is really weird. They didn't really show how the entered into it, just kind of cut to the two boys getting ready to get underhooks

ASOT

The wrestling is then getting along they both like each other it's fairly obvious. Conor already said he has nothing personal against him and I'm fairly sure he feels the same way.

Whelo79

ASOT wrote: »

The wrestling is then getting along they both like each other it's fairly obvious. Conor already said he has nothing personal against him and I'm fairly sure he feels the same way.

Agreed. There's a mutual respect there and they are just checking out each others abilities in a friendly way.

BOHtox

I think they like each other quite a bit. They seem to be over the UFC189 altercation anyway. Not that there was much in it in the first place. They're like brothers. They wind each other up at the worst of times, they play fight and try to get under each other's skin. In one of the interviews during the week, Faber was saying he was speaking to McGregor about taxes being high in Ireland, not a topic you'd bring up but more stumble across during conversation. They talk quite a bit backstage and off camera I imagine.

CatFromHue

dulux99 wrote: »

Conor showing up and "training" the team is a pure gimmick created for the cameras. As other people have said, conor isn't a trained coach. Of course he could show them some cool stuff but the likes of Owen Roddy is far more qualified to actually train the guys

That's fair enough but I do think they need to be told they're Beeeauuuuuutiful more :pac:

For the guys who lose do they have to stay in the house until the very end without any chance of getting another fight?

shrapnel222

CatFromHue wrote: »

For the guys who lose do they have to stay in the house until the very end without any chance of getting another fight?

yes, they stay in and carry on training and if someone is injured, one of the losers (of Dana's choosing) will get another go.

MrStuffins

shrapnel222 wrote: »

yes, they stay in and carry on training and if someone is injured, one of Conor's mates (of Conor's choosing) will get another go.

FYP

CatFromHue

James Jenkins blog on episode 3
http://mmajunkie.com/2015/10/the-ultimate-fighter-22-blog-james-jenkins-on-episode-no-3-2

He thought Tom won the first round and so it should have gone to a 3 round fight but admits Tom would have struggled in that round if it did happen.

Naos

CatFromHue wrote: »

That's fair enough but I do think they need to be told they're Beeeauuuuuutiful more :pac:

For the guys who lose do they have to stay in the house until the very end without any chance of getting another fight?

The beautiful comments are as much for the judges as they are for the fighters.

DeVore

Go and see a Muay Thai fight (particularly in Thailand) and listen to the supporters and each fighter's corners go "Huawaaaay!" with every kick. I mean EVERY SINGLE KICK! It gets annoying after a while

Devastator

Conor is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't according to this thread!


Last week - "Conor's a ****er for calling Sasha a bitch & pussy" *
This week - "Conor's a ****er for saying bautiful & attaboy,etc(giving his fighter encouragement)"*



I thought Marcin done very well, he looked very strong carrying the other fella on his back for most of the 1st round and gave him a couple of real good punches in the face while he was hanging onto his back. He could have maybe done a little more to finish the fight but he looked the much better fighter from the 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the fella Saul next week


* Artistic licence used

Foxtrol

Devastator wrote: »

Conor is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't according to this thread!


Last week - "Conor's a ****er for calling Sasha a bitch & pussy" *
This week - "Conor's a ****er for saying bautiful & attaboy,etc(giving his fighter encouragement)"*

You're ignoring the common theme of the two, that he does both in a loud, attention seeking manner.

Devastator

Foxtrol wrote: »

You're ignoring the common theme of the two, that he does both in a loud, attention seeking manner.

Thats incorrect, I just don't give a sh*t about that.....plus I reckon all you southern boys are loud and attention seeking so I feel bad for singling one person out

DeVore

To be fair, he's miked up and the cameras are on him constantly. If he sat in the corner and did nothing people would criticise that too

CatFromHue

Devastator wrote: »

This week - "Conor's a ****er for saying bautiful & attaboy,etc(giving his fighter encouragement)"*

this is just people having some fun, not them having a go

Devastator

CatFromHue wrote: »

this is just people having some fun, not them having a go

Fun? Think you need to have a wee re-read of the thread. People are making comments as an annoyance, someone claiming Conor's cageside coaching was "grinding" on them. Thats not saying something in jest.

I get that some people don't like him, thats fine, but don't just blindly have a go at everything he does.

If some of the comments were meant to be having fun, there were very few of them.

DeVore

Its funny, I'm in opposite camp. McGregor is a fantastic fighter but I can only take that swaggery ego in short doses. Not a huge fanexcept when he's in the ring! On this thread however, he's getting the short end of the stick imho

Naos

DeVore wrote: »

Go and see a Muay Thai fight (particularly in Thailand) and listen to the supporters and each fighter's corners go "Huawaaaay!" with every kick. I mean EVERY SINGLE KICK! It gets annoying after a while

Been to my fair share, I enjoyed it Either way, it's thrown in to attempt sway the judges as well as giving home fighter confidence.

CatFromHue

Devastator wrote: »

Fun? Think you need to have a wee re-read of the thread. People are making comments as an annoyance, someone claiming Conor's cageside coaching was "grinding" on them. Thats not saying something in jest.

I get that some people don't like him, thats fine, but don't just blindly have a go at everything he does.

If some of the comments were meant to be having fun, there were very few of them.

The comments on him saying beauuuuutiful were fun I thought.

There are other comments criticising him, which I've made a few, but not for his words of encouragement to his fighters.

Exclamation Marc

Devastator wrote: »

Fun? Think you need to have a wee re-read of the thread. People are making comments as an annoyance, someone claiming Conor's cageside coaching was "grinding" on them. Thats not saying something in jest.

I get that some people don't like him, thats fine, but don't just blindly have a go at everything he does.

If some of the comments were meant to be having fun, there were very few of them.

Course its fun, if it was my best mate doing it I'd be saying the same. I've no problem with him, I like him a lot. But the constant 'beeeeeeeeeeeautiful' is just annoying regardless of who shouts it, but it doesnt change my (positive) opinion of the guy!

Mr. CooL ICE

This is the first TUF I've actually watched. I've seen bits of random episodes from previous seasons, but reality TV just doesn't agree with me. The only exceptions I've made have been watching Ais's episodes before, but I'm enjoying this season so far.

Is it always 1 fight per episode?

John_D80

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

This is the first TUF I've actually watched. I've seen bits of random episodes from previous seasons, but reality TV just doesn't agree with me. The only exceptions I've made have been watching Ais's episodes before, but I'm enjoying this season so far.

Is it always 1 fight per episode?

With the exception of the first 1 or 2 episodes in the series of prelim fights to get in the house its almost always just one fight per episode.

Going back the years though they often showed two in one episode for the likes of quarter finals etc or if they had a fight end in seconds.

In series 9 (UK vs USA) I remember there being quite a few episodes where there was 2 fights.

but1er

Mute is a fantastic options during the fights! Can't listen to Conor repeat and repeat!

Can't wait for next week match up! Fancied saul Rogers from start lets see what he got

Dtp1979

CatFromHue wrote: »

That's fair enough but I do think they need to be told they're Beeeauuuuuutiful more :pac

Think that's an SBG thing. I've often heard john Kavanagh say it, and Chris fields when he's cornering too. I'm sure it's not exclusively an SBG saying though