Postcodes released

Del2005

lima wrote: »

It's no sarcasm, I am just realistic, hopeful and happy

These Postcodes are a fabulous step in the right direction. I am looking forward to companies embracing them

Unfortunately the only companies which will embrace these are the ones we don't want to, marketing, because the Eircodes are of no use to delivery companies as they can't use it batch deliveries together easily. Most other post code systems have each area beside each other, we don't so a delivery driver can't just pick everything for one area easily and then they have to pay to be able to get a location for each property.

lima

Del2005 wrote: »

Unfortunately the only companies which will embrace these are the ones we don't want to, marketing, because the Eircodes are of no use to delivery companies as they can't use it batch deliveries together easily. Most other post code systems have each area beside each other, we don't so a delivery driver can't just pick everything for one area easily and then they have to pay to be able to get a location for each property.

The first 3 digits are for the area.


There's a better discussion on the After Hours forum by the way

Sheldons Brain

Del2005 wrote: »

Unfortunately the only companies which will embrace these are the ones we don't want to, marketing, because the Eircodes are of no use to delivery companies as they can't use it batch deliveries together easily. Most other post code systems have each area beside each other, we don't so a delivery driver can't just pick everything for one area easily and then they have to pay to be able to get a location for each property.

Delivery companies with IT systems can easily print a label to batch deliveries, if they use the database, and the address will do the rest.

kupus

I have my cynic hat for this one on and I doubt post code was in the head of the guy that dreamt this system up.
More like tax money for the future.

KELTICKNIGHTT

can find me on loc8 and can be used in google maps and satnavs as get all my deliveries no problem ,,but with eircode , not a chance, i sent them a e.mail and they have no answer for me lol , no big surprise there.
only in ireland do we do things half a$$. why o why

Paulw

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Delivery companies with IT systems can easily print a label to batch deliveries, if they use the database, and the address will do the rest.

So, you expect delivery companies to spend lots of money developing new systems and new labels to batch deliveries, simply because eircode got it wrong?

Also, according to eircode, a business would have to pay to use the lookup feature, a fee of up to €30,000 per annum, according to their pricing page.

Dulchie

I live in a village, there are 102 houses on my road, up to now if I need an ambulance I had to talk them in since no houses have a number and very few have names on their gates, with Eircode they have an exact address and building.

Button_y

Usability aside - Is this what happened? I assume I am understanding incorrectly, right?

Some company got 27 million from the tax payer to create and run their business and now that company are going to charge 30K to other businesses to use the system that the tax payer paid for? That's a win win for this company! No risk and all the profit!

paul71

Button_y wrote: »

Usability aside - Is this what happened? I assume I am understanding incorrectly, right?

Some company got 27 million from the tax payer to create and run their business and now that company are going to charge 30K to other businesses to use the system that the tax payer paid for? That's a win win for this company! No risk and all the profit!

Don't understand the arguement. 27m to development something, ok fine if we got value great.

Then what? Leave the developed product sitting in a box unused? I would be pretty certain there are costs involved with running the product too, and if so then we are back to talking about if we get value for the 30k charge and is it reflective of the running cost.

Button_y

paul71 wrote: »

Don't understand the arguement. 27m to development something, ok fine if we got value great.

Then what? Leave the developed product sitting in a box unused? I would be pretty certain there are costs involved with running the product too, and if so then we are back to talking about if we get value for the 30k charge and is it reflective of the running cost.

Sorry I didn't make myself that clear. My understanding is the company was given money to develop a product. I would expect after the product is owned by the gov who paid for it and not the company who developed it. But maybe that is the case? Who gets the profits from the company assuming there is some or the absorbs the losses?

paul71

Button_y wrote: »

Sorry I didn't make myself that clear. My understanding is the company was given money to develop a product. I would expect after the product is owned by the gov who paid for it and not the company who developed it. But maybe that is the case? Who gets the profits from the company assuming there is some or the absorbs the losses?

Ok got you. I would hope that there is a licence fee in operation, so it should in an ideal world work like this.

Governments pays for developement of a state asset. Government licences operation of said asset to private company. Private company operates asset and rents use of asset to other private companies and pays a licence fee to government from that revenue.

Anything else and I like you would have an issue with it.

Button_y

paul71 wrote: »

Ok got you. I would hope that there is a licence fee in operation, so it should in an ideal world work like this.

Governments pays for developement of a state asset. Government licences operation of said asset to private company. Private company operates asset and rents use of asset to other private companies and pays a licence fee to government from that revenue.

Anything else and I like you would have an issue with it.

Ah that makes sense, thanks I was misunderstanding.

Source here
Following on from Government decision S180/20/10/0382 of 08/10/2013 to approve the awarding of the national postcode management licence to Capita Business Support Services Ireland, the Minister signed the contract with Capita as the Postcode Management Licence Holder (Postcode Contractor) in December 2013. Under contract, Capita will design, build, operate and maintain the national postcode system under licence for a ten year period, extendable by a further five years at the discretion of the Minister. The contract will cost the state €27m (ex VAT) over the 10 year licence period.
It is expected that postcodes will be launched and disseminated nationally in the middle of 2015

paul71

Actually button, now that you have kindly provided me with a link to the basis of the agreement, I do have an issue with that. I would like to have seen a clear separation of the developement and the operation with immediate licence fees returns to the Government.

On the face of it that strikes me as the same mistake made in the building of the M50 tollbridge.

foggy_lad

Rew wrote: »

20 million quid on something isn't great, doesn't work as advertised and others were offering for free isn't small issues.

You are being generous to them, this company is getting minimum 27million euro over 10 years.

lima wrote: »

If they don't have a plan for this type of functionality then ok they would appear useless. However they say:

"As Eircode is very new, many retailers and organisations are busy updating their systems to recognise and accept an Eircode. Overtime, you will see more organisations requesting an Eircode and accepting it"

If there are any of these companys or their representatives reading could they please indicate at what stage of updating your company systems ye are at if indeed you are having anything to do with this unusual system?

Dulchie wrote: »

I live in a village, there are 102 houses on my road, up to now if I need an ambulance I had to talk them in since no houses have a number and very few have names on their gates, with Eircode they have an exact address and building.

People living in other places like Celbridge could have ambulance and fire services sent from as far away as NAAS because their area code is for Naas.

paul71 wrote: »

Actually button, now that you have kindly provided me with a link to the basis of the agreement, I do have an issue with that. I would like to have seen a clear separation of the developement and the operation with immediate licence fees returns to the Government.

On the face of it that strikes me as the same mistake made in the building of the M50 tollbridge.

Will we see this company suing the state over losses or profits lower than projected in a few years when this system fails?

G_R

foggy_lad wrote: »

People living in other places like Celbridge could have ambulance and fire services sent from as far away as NAAS because their area code is for Naas.

With respect, they aren't that stupid, and to make claims like the above is just ridivulous. I would imagine that when the NAS or Fire Service start using the system, the caller would just need to give their postcode to the operator and it would then plot the call on their own mapping system, and match it to their nearest ambulance. The dispatcher would still be guiding the ambulance in, but now they don't have to spend time trying to find the house.

Dulchie

The need for An Eircode system is urgent. We used to have a local Ambulance Call Centre here in Wexford. At least some of the Ambulance phone operators would have some local knowledge. Recently the local call centre was closed and its operations transferred to Dublin.

paul71

Dulchie wrote: »

The need for An Eircode system is urgent. We used to have a local Ambulance Call Centre here in Wexford. At least some of the Ambulance phone operators would have some local knowledge. Recently the local call centre was closed and its operations transferred to Dublin.

I think remember a case about two years somewhere in west Cork where this confusion caused a 2 or 3 hour delay in an ambulance, a case that went to national media.

Thargor

paul71 wrote: »

I think remember a case about two years somewhere in west Cork where this confusion caused a 2 or 3 hour delay in an ambulance, a case that went to national media.

I think it was a toddler that fell out an upstairs window, think they had to lift him and jump in a passerbys car with the kid in the end iirc.

pwurple

If anyone's interested, here is the response I received from Eircode on my particular issue (someone else's address on my house)

You can use the Eircode that's associated with your property on the map, that has somebody else's address above it on the finder. The address we have obtained from our data providers is incorrect, however, this should not and will not affect the Eircode's efficiency.

Our source data providers are "An Post Geodirectory Limited". You should be able to search up the address on the An Post website.

So, I've written to GeoDirectory Limited to get my address corrected at source. Will see if that sorts it out.

Cuddlesworth

pwurple wrote: »

If anyone's interested, here is the response I received from Eircode on my particular issue (someone else's address on my house)



So, I've written to GeoDirectory Limited to get my address corrected at source. Will see if that sorts it out.

Sorry, but thats not a acceptable for a service like that. They are providing the address, they should be fixing the issue.

mdebets

Just tried the search on my old address (an apartment building in Dublin 7) and the apartments on the same floor and I really want to have what they were smoking when they were designing this system.
All apartments have totally different numbers, with the only information you get, is that it is located in Dublin 7 (You knew that by putting a 7 after Dublin in your address). So how are they supposed to help you, find an address?

pwurple

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sorry, but thats not a acceptable for a service like that. They are providing the address, they should be fixing the issue.

Um, I don't think so.

They aren't the owners of the address database. How would they make changes to it? They are just sticking a layer of eircodes on top of someone else's address directory.

Geodirectory own the address list.

beauf

mdebets wrote: »

.... I really want to have what they were smoking when they were designing this system.

All apartments have totally different numbers, with the only information you get, is that it is located in Dublin 7...

The only conclusion is that its designed deliberately as a locked in system. Where the only way to get meaningful information from it is to pay for it.

Of course if companies decide they don't to pay this, then all the money spent on it is wasted if another standard becomes more popular.

lima

mdebets wrote: »

Just tried the search on my old address (an apartment building in Dublin 7) and the apartments on the same floor and I really want to have what they were smoking when they were designing this system.
All apartments have totally different numbers, with the only information you get, is that it is located in Dublin 7 (You knew that by putting a 7 after Dublin in your address). So how are they supposed to help you, find an address?

You type in the name of the address.

Why should it have been designed to help you look for an address?

GJG

foggy_lad wrote: »

People living in other places like Celbridge could have ambulance and fire services sent from as far away as NAAS because their area code is for Naas.

This is simply silliness. Celbridge is in the Naas postal district, so what? Why should ambulances not use the eircode of a Celbridge caller to locate them and send the nearest ambulance via the most direct route?

The whole of the north has a BT - Belfast - postcode in the Royal Mail structure. Do you imagine that all ambulances for Derry go via Belfast?

scrimshanker

lima wrote: »

Why should it have been designed to help you look for an address?

Eh, that's usually the main benefit of having a postcode...

GJG

mdebets wrote: »

Just tried the search on my old address (an apartment building in Dublin 7) and the apartments on the same floor and I really want to have what they were smoking when they were designing this system.
All apartments have totally different numbers, with the only information you get, is that it is located in Dublin 7 (You knew that by putting a 7 after Dublin in your address). So how are they supposed to help you, find an address?

scrimshanker wrote: »

Eh, that's usually the main benefit of having a postcode...

You put your post code in the website, and it gives you the full postal address and, for the hard of thinking, a map pinpointing the exact location. Exactly what more are you asking for?

lima

scrimshanker wrote: »

Eh, that's usually the main benefit of having a postcode...

No it's not

It is to make sorting mail quicker and more accurate

Perhaps I don't understand, but using a postcode to find an address will find an exact address, whereas in the UK it will only find an area of up to 80 addresses. This makes it easier to find an address, no?

beauf

I think most people were hoping for a system that you could look at and know if an address is local and or near another. Without using a computer.

Eugene Norman

All of the attacks on this system proves not that the system is problematic but that lots of people don't like change. Or Ireland to do anything different to anywhere else.

A per house post code is evidentially better than per block and harder to implement. Everything has bugs on its first day but I have found no issues whatsoever across twenty lookups. It's up to google to make this work with Google. Only total morons think that the guy next to you should be "sequential". All that matters is he is unique and can map to a geocode. The emergency services never use posts codes in most countries precisely because those post codes are not per house so saying its a disaster because it can't be used by the emergency services is almost beyond belief, since that's never the case ( however with this system it actually should work). And the code doesn't have to map to arbitrary county borders. Put away that GAA jersey.
It shouldn't be free to businesses because we need the money back.

I doubt if the "open source" alternatives would find the rural house in deepest Mayo I sometimes rent but this did.

I have no dog in the race, heard about this for the first time this week, but it's a fairly impressive system.