Irish anti-Islamic group protests mosque in Kerry

DarkyHughes

Sounds like their trying to go back to the year 0 like the Khemer Rouge.

DarkyHughes

wakka12 wrote: »

A religion supported by extremely homophobic followers which is growing in prominence in Ireland will have an effect on my life as a gay man actually.

Leave Catholicism out of it mate, will just muddy the waters.

Hans Bricks

Meh. Ultra conservative Christians protesting a foreign counterpart religion from gaining anymore prominence in Ireland. I can't see anything negative about it, even if it is scaremongering too. If I were to protest anymore christian places of worship from being constructed, I doubt it would get any batted eyelids from those who have a problem with this protest.

wakka12

Billy86 wrote: »

Wakka, I would appreciate it if you could get back to explaining how all Christian countries (apart from Russia) are completely fine with homosexuality, despite it being illegal in over 30 countries where Christianity is the biggest religion, and roughly one-in-three countries classifying it as illegal once you exclude Europe/USA/Canada/Australia/NZ.

Mhm you are correct. 1 in 3 is still a lot less than the almost 100% of muslims countries.

dr.fuzzenstein

So are we now to discriminate against Muslims? Is this really coming from a gay person? Its not OK to discriminate against homosexuals, but Muslims are fair game because you don't agree with them?
How fcuked up is that.
Maybe we need an example how discrimination against a group of people has ever been a good thing.

Muckracker

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So are we now to discriminate against Muslims? Is this really coming from a gay person? Its not OK to discriminate against homosexuals, but Muslims are fair game because you don't agree with them?
How fcuked up is that.

Why on earth would gays support the Muslims? That's like Jews supporting the Nazis!

dr.fuzzenstein

Muckracker wrote: »

Why on earth would gays support the Muslims? That's like Jews supporting the Nazis!

I've known a few in my time. My Turkish, Tunisian and Moroccan friends would thank you not to be called Nazis you drunk Irish terrorist.
Generalisation are never right.

edit:
IRA comparison only for illustration purposes, if anyone feels upset about it, you are absolutely right. And that was the point.

wakka12

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So are we now to discriminate against Muslims? Is this really coming from a gay person? Its not OK to discriminate against homosexuals, but Muslims are fair game because you don't agree with them?
How fcuked up is that.
Maybe we need an example how discrimination against a group of people has ever been a good thing.

I would respect Muslim beliefs if it didnt involve discriminating against me in the first place, but oh well, the worlds not perfect! There arent that many muslims in the UK or Ireland, I have not been openly discriminated against on grounds of my sexual orientation very many times. Maybe 3 or 4 times , all by people of middle eastern background who were most likely muslim.

dr.fuzzenstein

wakka12 wrote: »

I would respect Muslim beliefs if it didnt involve discriminating against me in the first place, but oh well, the worlds not perfect! There arent that many muslims in the UK or Ireland, I have not been openly discriminated against on grounds of my sexual orientation very many times. Maybe 3 or 4 times , all by people of middle eastern background who were most likely muslim.

I don't agree with it either. And plenty of Christians also discriminate, one just needs to look towards the protests against equal marriage. Both the bible and the Koran would call to discriminate against gays.
We are overcoming this and are learning to ignore rubbish written thousands of years ago. And not all Muslims are stuck in the stone age.
But at the end if the day there is only two kinds of people. Nice people and arseholes. And they are to be found everywhere.

DarkyHughes

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't agree with it either. And plenty of Christians also discriminate, one just needs to look towards the protests against equal marriage. Both the bible and the Koran would call to discriminate against gays.
We are overcoming this and are learning to ignore rubbish written thousands of years ago. And not all Muslims are stuck in the stone age.
But at the end if the day there is only two kinds of people. Nice people and arseholes. And they are to be found everywhere.

In a strange way I actually think Christians discriminate more against gays. They seem to think it's just a fad & their not really born like that & can be fixed.
Muslims accept their gay & there's no changing them, although there's much a higher chance they'll be killed in a Muslim country.

DarkyHughes

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I've known a few in my time. My Turkish, Tunisian and Moroccan friends would thank you not to be called Nazis you drunk Irish terrorist.
Generalisation are never right.

edit:
IRA comparison only for illustration purposes, if anyone feels upset about it, you are absolutely right. And that was the point.

yeah but not all IRA's were terrorist.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

That doesn't answer the main points raised, however. In a secular state, they can believe what they want, you can believe what you want.

This can work, but only provided that all involved accept that they live in a secular state and fully embrace both the rights, responsibilities and ideals of a secular state.

dr.fuzzenstein

wakka12 wrote: »

I would respect Muslim beliefs if it didnt involve discriminating against me in the first place, but oh well, the worlds not perfect! There arent that many muslims in the UK or Ireland, I have not been openly discriminated against on grounds of my sexual orientation very many times. Maybe 3 or 4 times , all by people of middle eastern background who were most likely muslim.

You don't have to go as far as to respect any kind of opinion. I know I certainly don't. People are indeed free to hold any kind of opinion, but someone made the mistake once to say we are to respect all opinions. I deeply disagree with that. If someone's opinion is a lot of sh*te, we should not pat him on the back and say "I respect you for your beliefs". The same way he/she is free to hold an opinion, we also then have the right to say "that is a load of horsemanure".
The problem is that people are getting dumber and have started believing in grey aliens and reptilians secretly running the world, that the Earth is flat and 6000 years old, that gays are bad, that their God told them to blow up a lot of innocent people and so on and so forth.
Anyone can hold any kind of opinion, but anyone else should also be free to call bullsh*t on them.

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

This can work, but only provided that all involved accept that they live in a secular state and fully embrace both the rights, responsibilities and ideals of a secular state.

.....but you're always going to have some chancers who seem to think they have the right to impose their crap on others regardless. It's not worth singling out one group for abuse and protest on them grounds.

Billy86

wakka12 wrote: »

Mhm you are correct. 1 in 3 is still a lot less than the almost 100% of muslims countries.

OK, so now you've admitted to just making up the whole 'all Christian countries are graaaand with homosexuality' part in your head; you're not looking very credible.

And you only become less credible because in fact, homosexuality is legal in 1-in-3 nations where Islam is the biggest religion, and that is not even including the three countries in Europe where it is the biggest religion (Turkey, Albania and Bosnia) where it is legal in all three.

So...
1. Every Christian nation in the world (barring Russia) are completely fine with being gay, not a bother at all with them about it. FALSE.
2. Almost 100% of Muslim countries have outlawed homosexuality. FALSE.


It's time to just admit you were wrong and making things up.

darkpagandeath

Nodin wrote: »

.....but you're always going to have some chancers who seem to think they have the right to impose their crap on others regardless. It's not worth singling out one group for abuse and protest on them grounds.

Aye, One could almost link being a fervent member of a conservative sky wizards group and being a bigot go hand in hand. Any sky wizards it does not matter.

Nodin

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Aye, One could almost link being a fervent member of a conservative sky wizards group and being a bigot go hand in hand. Any sky wizards it does not matter.

Sky wizardry certainly is to blame for the origins of a lot of it, certainly.

tisgrand

Sure as long as theyre all Catholic Muslims and not Protestant ones theyll be alright

DarkyHughes

Muckracker wrote: »

Why on earth would gays support the Muslims? That's like Jews supporting the Nazis!

I know a couple of gay people who support the Palestinians, last time I checked about 75% of them were Muslim or maybe there just supporting the Christian ones.

RichardCeann

DarkyHughes wrote: »

In a strange way I actually think Christians discriminate more against gays. They seem to think it's just a fad & their not really born like that & can be fixed.
Muslims accept their gay & there's no changing them, although there's much a higher chance they'll be killed in a Muslim country.

Yes, Muslim nations are much better places for homosexuals. When they are not getting hanged from cranes and thrown off roofs they are treated very well. Are you on the wind up? Muslim countries are barbaric ****holes compared to the Christian west and how they treat women, homosexuals, the disabled etc. As for Muslims accepting that they are gay, wasn't it the Iranians who said that they don't have an issue with gays as there are none in their country!

Get off the stage, Mr 'Ra head.

Billy86

RichardCeann wrote: »

Yes, Muslim nations are much better places for homosexuals. When they are not getting hanged from cranes and thrown off roofs they are treated very well. Are you on the wind up? Muslim countries are barbaric ****holes compared to the Christian west and how they treat women, homosexuals, the disabled etc.

Why do people you only include the western Christian countries, when over 30 nations where it is the largest religion have made it illegal? Trying to boil it all down simply to religion is very flawed and leads to cherry picking like this. Take Europe, North America and the US/Australia out of the equation and homosexuality is illegal in about 1-in-3 countries where Christianity is the biggest religion, vs. 2-in-3 in countries where it is Islam.

That still puts Christianity 'in the lead', but it does nothing to explain how Christians try to claim all of Islam is an evil/barbaric/etc religion because of issues like this in several of their countries, while conveniently forgetting ignoring Christian countries that do likewise because it would not suit the "Christianity = good, Islam = bad" motto.

It also leads to people blindly accepting lies like "being gay is illegal in every Muslim country in the world" or "apart from Russia, all Christian countries are perfectly OK with homosexuality" or even claims like "there are no churches/cathedrals anywhere in any nation that is majority Muslim."

Not a NSA agent

I hope people arent confusing a secular country with majority Christians to a Christian country.

Sure countries like Ireland and the US have same sex marriage but who were the people who opposed it in these secular countries?

wakka12

Billy86 wrote: »

OK, so now you've admitted to just making up the whole 'all Christian countries are graaaand with homosexuality' part in your head; you're not looking very credible.

And you only become less credible because in fact, homosexuality is legal in 1-in-3 nations where Islam is the biggest religion, and that is not even including the three countries in Europe where it is the biggest religion (Turkey, Albania and Bosnia) where it is legal in all three.

So...
1. Every Christian nation in the world (barring Russia) are completely fine with being gay, not a bother at all with them about it. FALSE.
2. Almost 100% of Muslim countries have outlawed homosexuality. FALSE.


It's time to just admit you were wrong and making things up.

Haha and how many muslim countries have gay marriage? Even protection of lgbt citizens in the workplace?
I don't know what you want me to say, do you want me to say muslims and christians treat gay people equally badly? Because I know that if given the choice of living amongst bigoted Christians or bigoted muslims Ill always take the Christians.

wakka12

DarkyHughes wrote: »

In a strange way I actually think Christians discriminate more against gays. They seem to think it's just a fad & their not really born like that & can be fixed.
Muslims accept their gay & there's no changing them, although there's much a higher chance they'll be killed in a Muslim country.

What a stupid comment, I think Id prefer people trying to tell me its just a fad than being ****ing stoned to death or thrown off a skyscraper

darkpagandeath

wakka12 wrote: »

Haha and how many muslim countries have gay marriage? Even protection of lgbt citizens in the workplace?
I don't know what you want me to say, do you want me to say muslims and christians treat gay people equally badly? Because I know that if given the choice of living amongst bigoted Christians or bigoted muslims Ill always take the Christians.

I would be more concerned about the radicalised ones wanting to kill people. A good 40% of people here disagreed with gay marriage. And a majority up North. See how you get along with the KKK for example Or westboro. I would wager it being the rise of atheism having more to do with Christians beliefs changing. Ask that lad in the funny hat in Italy what is wrong with letting same sex get married.

darkpagandeath

wakka12 wrote: »

What a stupid comment, I think Id prefer people trying to tell me its just a fad than being ****ing stoned to death or thrown off a skyscraper

That would be radicalised nut jobs.

Billy86

wakka12 wrote: »

Haha and how many muslim countries have gay marriage? Even protection of lgbt citizens in the workplace?
I don't know what you want me to say, do you want me to say muslims and christians treat gay people equally badly? Because I know that if given the choice of living amongst bigoted Christians or bigoted muslims Ill always take the Christians.

Your original comment was "homosexuality is perfectly normal and legal in almost every christian country bar say Russia."

Your follow up was "1 in 3 is still a lot less than the almost 100% of muslims countries" in reference to homosexuality being illegal.

Your post above has absolutely nothing to do with either of these points, and you can look into them yourself. At what point are you going to admit you were simply full of sh*t, based on a clear prejudice you have against Muslims?

DarkyHughes

RichardCeann wrote: »

Yes, Muslim nations are much better places for homosexuals. When they are not getting hanged from cranes and thrown off roofs they are treated very well. Are you on the wind up? Muslim countries are barbaric ****holes compared to the Christian west and how they treat women, homosexuals, the disabled etc. As for Muslims accepting that they are gay, wasn't it the Iranians who said that they don't have an issue with gays as there are none in their country!

Get off the stage, Mr 'Ra head.

You clearly missed the "they'll be killed" part I put at the end.

Plus I never said Muslim countries are better places for gays to live I said Muslims countries just accept gay people are gay.

Anyway I don't know much on the issue of Islam & gays but according to David Norris who I can't stand about 70-75% of the time says he lived with Palestinian Muslims & his head is still on his shoulders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ee8_dIEPo

DeadHand

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I said Muslims countries just accept gay people are gay

... And then murder them for being gay...

wakka12

Billy86 wrote: »

Your original comment was "homosexuality is perfectly normal and legal in almost every christian country bar say Russia."

Your follow up was "1 in 3 is still a lot less than the almost 100% of muslims countries" in reference to homosexuality being illegal.

Your post above has absolutely nothing to do with either of these points, and you can look into them yourself. At what point are you going to admit you were simply full of sh*t, based on a clear prejudice you have against Muslims?

Ok I admit it. You win, well argued.

wakka12

DarkyHughes wrote: »

You clearly missed the "they'll be killed" part I put at the end.

Plus I never said Muslim countries are better places for gays to live I said Muslims countries just accept gay people are gay.

Anyway I don't know much on the issue of Islam & gays but according to David Norris who I can't stand about 70-75% of the time says he lived with Palestinian Muslims & his head is still on his shoulders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ee8_dIEPo

Whats good about accepting gay people as gay people if they just kill them then? That point makes no sense what so ever

wakka12

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

I hope people arent confusing a secular country with majority Christians to a Christian country.

Sure countries like Ireland and the US have same sex marriage but who were the people who opposed it in these secular countries?

I believe I was confusing secular countries with christian ones as Billy pointed out to me. Apologies