Liverpool FC News/Gossip/Rumours Summer '15

NukaCola · 01-09-2015 10:00am

Turtyturd wrote: »

Hopefully West Brom can't open his paperwork before the deadline.

Enrique trying to hide it so he can fight for his place....

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:02am

Augeo wrote: »

Sharp end of the CL?
You can't compare a team aspiring to qualify for the comp to teams that contest it in the final stages, well you can, from a p1ssing & moaning viewpoint.

You can look at how the best squads in the club game are geared and understand that's what is required to challenge on multiple fronts while accepting the players you could fill that distribution model with would be of a lower average quality.

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:03am

Dickerty wrote: »

Not sure if you agreed at the time, but after signing Clyne, Milner, Ings, Benteke, Firmino and Gomez, most people here felt the squad looked pretty good for depth. And that was most certainly without counting Balo, Borini or Enrique.

I do think we are light at FB, only really have 3 to choose from, but we may play a back 3 sometimes with Ibe as a wing back. But a late signing for RB cover wouldn't go amiss.

I understand most people said that, but I'm not seeing it as I lay out the depth chart to close out the window. How have most people reached that conclusion? That's the question I'm asking.

NukaCola · 01-09-2015 10:04am

LB is a problem anyway. Moreno was meant to be our starter but has been really poor. Gomez will do a job but will be found out at times.

NukaCola · 01-09-2015 10:07am

Maybe we should bring back Doni. Thats covering CM/LB/RB and AM. He can also play in goals if needed.

Dickerty · 01-09-2015 10:08am

NukaCola wrote: »

I bet at some stage we'll see Clyne at LB if we dont get in a LB.

Not likely, we don't have a back-up RB!

MonkeyTennis · 01-09-2015 10:09am

I would be spending a Borinini shaped amount on an LB

brevity · 01-09-2015 10:09am

Teams have and will cop onto us as we are very one dimensional. Pack the midfield and protect the centre backs and, because we don't focus on width, we are fairly useless.

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 10:09am

Dickerty wrote: »

Not likely, we don't have a back-up RB!

Can...Henderson...Ings.

Knex* · 01-09-2015 10:10am

I don't think we're remarkably behind other teams in terms of depth, though. Its definitely better than it has been for years, anyway.

Yeah, we still have places of need, but its not horrific.

Agent Coulson · 01-09-2015 10:11am

So will Rodgers go for 3 at the back against utd that saved him from getting the bullet last season. (tactical genius)

It also means he doesn't have to drop Lovern.

Dickerty · 01-09-2015 10:11am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I understand most people said that, but I'm not seeing it as I lay out the depth chart to close out the window. How have most people reached that conclusion? That's the question I'm asking.

Well I think FB is the only place we are light on cover, and I think they rate Joe Maguire so maybe they plan on using him for cup games and emergency cover.
Lots of CBs, lots of CMs, lots of strikers. A bit short on true width, but we don't really play wingers, so even if we had them, we'd still play Lallana...

So maybe it's an argument of quality instead of depth.

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:16am

When we question things during a window, we are told to wait until the end of the window. It is now the end of the window and there is a trend in our incomings and outgoings:

Out

Jones - Back up goalkeeper
Johnson - Natural Full Back
Manquillo - Natural Full Back
Enrique - Natural Full Back
Gerrard - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Sterling - Pacey dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)
Markovic - Pacey wing forward (can play centrally)
Lambert - Target man
Balotelli - Target man
Borini - dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)

In

Clyne - Natural Full Back
Gomez - Central Defender (can cover left back, jury out)
Milner - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Firminho - No.10
Beneteke - Target Man
Ings - Centre Forward
Oirigi - Forward (can he play in wide positions?)

Seems like we've lost a lot of natural width in the wash there. Is it deliberate? If so, is it a good thing?

And that leaves aside two other questions that, apologies, I'm forced to ask:

- our Net spend is very moderate
- our wage bill has probably decreased yet again

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 10:23am

You can't really judge the window until you can officially discount us getting 4th.

Connavar · 01-09-2015 10:25am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When we question things during a window, we are told to wait until the end of the window. It is now the end of the window and there is a trend in our incomings and outgoings:

Out

Jones - Back up goalkeeper
Johnson - Natural Full Back
Manquillo - Natural Full Back
Enrique - Natural Full Back
Gerrard - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Sterling - Pacey dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)
Markovic - Pacey wing forward (can play centrally)
Lambert - Target man
Balotelli - Target man
Borini - dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)

In

Clyne - Natural Full Back
Gomez - Central Defender (can cover left back, jury out)
Milner - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Firminho - No.10
Beneteke - Target Man
Ings - Centre Forward
Oirigi - Forward (can he play in wide positions?)

Seems like we've lost a lot of natural width in the wash there. Is it deliberate? If so, is it a good thing?

And that leaves aside two other questions that, apologies, I'm forced to ask:

- our Net spend is very moderate
- our wage bill has probably decreased yet again

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

While I see where you are coming from you have to remember that the only outs that had any regular game time were gerrard, johnson and sterling
Milner covers Gerrards loss(the gerrard that left not young version)
Clyne seems like a big upgrade on Johnson already
I'm reserving judgement on Firmino as a Sterling replacement

Dickerty · 01-09-2015 10:30am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

Given that we can only play 11 players, and many of the outgoings were a long way away from being selected (Enrique, Lambert, Borini especially), then their departures really don't weaken us. I think we would have kept Manquillo but Atletico recalled him.

Would Markovic be more use to us as an option for 10/15 games, instead of getting his mojo back in 50 games for Fenerbache? I think the latter.
Are Ings and Origi better options than Borini, Balo and Lambert? Yes, probably.
Is Milner an upgrade on Gerrard at 35? Yep.
Is Clyne better than Johnson? Duh...

I think we may have kept Wisdom as cover, and Markovic is a long term play, but that gives someone like Teixeira, Brannagan or Kent a chance to get some minutes.

I think it's a slight positive overall, plus the squad is younger with fewer difficult personalities.

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:34am

Turtyturd wrote: »

You can't really judge the window until you can officially discount us getting 4th.

My sarco meter may be off base, but assuming that's a serious post - I can certainly assess where I think we're at before the season is played. If you can project positive, you can project negative. There are surely real arguments either way?

Connavar wrote: »

While I see where you are coming from you have to remember that the only outs that had any regular game time were gerrard, johnson and sterling
Milner covers Gerrards loss(the gerrard that left not young version)
Clyne seems like a big upgrade on Johnson already
I'm reserving judgement on Firmino as a Sterling replacement

I understand that point, but the reasons Lambert / Balotelli / Borini / Markovic / Manquillo / Enrique didn't get game time was because they weren't good enough. In theory we should have competition for first team places or, at least, that is what squad depth should mean.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I wasn't exactly a fan of Markovic.

But he was a type of player that made sense for us to have and he was signed to play games and be successful, right? So what's the story with letting him go and not replacing the qualities he was supposed to be bringing to the starting XI?

djPSB · 01-09-2015 10:35am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When we question things during a window, we are told to wait until the end of the window. It is now the end of the window and there is a trend in our incomings and outgoings:

Out

Jones - Back up goalkeeper
Johnson - Natural Full Back
Manquillo - Natural Full Back
Enrique - Natural Full Back
Gerrard - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Sterling - Pacey dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)
Markovic - Pacey wing forward (can play centrally)
Lambert - Target man
Balotelli - Target man
Borini - dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)

In

Clyne - Natural Full Back
Gomez - Central Defender (can cover left back, jury out)
Milner - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Firminho - No.10
Beneteke - Target Man
Ings - Centre Forward
Oirigi - Forward (can he play in wide positions?)

Seems like we've lost a lot of natural width in the wash there. Is it deliberate? If so, is it a good thing?

And that leaves aside two other questions that, apologies, I'm forced to ask:

- our Net spend is very moderate
- our wage bill has probably decreased yet again

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

Don't really have any problems with the dealings to be honest.

But the use of same players on Saturday was atrocious.

54and56 · 01-09-2015 10:35am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When we question things during a window, we are told to wait until the end of the window. It is now the end of the window and there is a trend in our incomings and outgoings:

Out

Jones - Back up goalkeeper
Johnson - Natural Full Back
Manquillo - Natural Full Back
Enrique - Natural Full Back
Gerrard - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Sterling - Pacey dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)
Markovic - Pacey wing forward (can play centrally)
Lambert - Target man
Balotelli - Target man
Borini - dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)

In

Clyne - Natural Full Back
Gomez - Central Defender (can cover left back, jury out)
Milner - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Firminho - No.10
Beneteke - Target Man
Ings - Centre Forward
Oirigi - Forward (can he play in wide positions?)

Seems like we've lost a lot of natural width in the wash there. Is it deliberate? If so, is it a good thing?

And that leaves aside two other questions that, apologies, I'm forced to ask:

- our Net spend is very moderate
- our wage bill has probably decreased yet again

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

It's quite simple for me. With the exception of Sterling the quality of the incoming players is far better than the quality of the comparable outgoing players.

Gaillimh1976 · 01-09-2015 10:36am

Dickerty wrote: »

I think they rate Joe Maguire so maybe they plan on using him for cup games and emergency cover.

Gone on loan (Leyton Orient I think ? )

Connavar · 01-09-2015 10:38am

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

Gone on loan (Leyton Orient I think ? )

I think that was only for a month

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:38am

Dickerty wrote: »

Given that we can only play 11 players, and many of the outgoings were a long way away from being selected (Enrique, Lambert, Borini especially), then their departures really don't weaken us. I think we would have kept Manquillo but Atletico recalled him.

Would Markovic be more use to us as an option for 10/15 games, instead of getting his mojo back in 50 games for Fenerbache? I think the latter.
Are Ings and Origi better options than Borini, Balo and Lambert? Yes, probably.
Is Milner an upgrade on Gerrard at 35? Yep.
Is Clyne better than Johnson? Duh...

I think we may have kept Wisdom as cover, and Markovic is a long term play, but that gives someone like Teixeira, Brannagan or Kent a chance to get some minutes.

I think it's a slight positive overall, plus the squad is younger with fewer difficult personalities.

So the argument for it being a successful window is:

- we've slightly upgraded on direct replacements;
- we can use U21s to fill any holes that present themselves over the course of the season;
- younger is better for you know, reasons;

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2015 10:42am

So then, any chance of a last day transfer drama? I'd love it if we had a last day transfer drama.

murpho999 · 01-09-2015 10:45am

I think it's been a good window as I think we have better quality players coming in than what went out, with the exception of Sterling.

We won't ultimately be able to judge it until we see how the season pans out unfortunately

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 10:45am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So then, any chance of a last day transfer drama? I'd love it if we had a last day transfer drama.

Coutinho to Barcelona.

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:46am

djPSB wrote: »

Don't really have any problems with the dealings to be honest.

But the use of same players on Saturday was atrocious.

Give me some alternative line ups considering our current squad. A couple of different ways to crack the nut so to speak.

I guess this is what most people would like to get to?

1st XI:

Mignolet

Clyne

Skrtel / Gomez

Sakho

Moreno / Gomez

Milner

Henderson

Firmino

Couthinho

Sturridge

Beneteke

2nd:

Bogdan

?(Toure?)

Illori

Lovren

?(Moreno/Gomez)

Lucas

Allen

Can

Lallana

Oirigi

Ings

I wonder how well we're prepared to progress in Europe while maintaining a league challenge tbh.

Kerrigooney · 01-09-2015 10:48am

Makes no difference who we buy or sell if the manager isn't using them properly.

He isn't imo.

54and56 · 01-09-2015 10:52am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give me some alternative line ups considering our current squad. A couple of different ways to crack the nut so to speak.

I guess this is what most people would like to get to?

1st XI:
Mignolet

Clyne
Skrtel / Gomez
Sakho
Moreno / Gomez
Milner
Henderson
Firmino
Couthinho
Sturridge
Beneteke

2nd:
Bogdan

?(Toure?)
Illori
Lovren
?(Moreno/Gomez)
Lucas
Allen
Lallana
?(Couthinho/Firmino)
Oirigi
Ings

I wonder how well we're prepared to progress in Europe while maintaining a league challenge tbh.

No Ibe in either the first or second eleven???

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 10:54am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give me some alternative line ups considering our current squad. A couple of different ways to crack the nut so to speak.

I guess this is what most people would like to get to?

1st XI:
Mignolet

Clyne
Skrtel / Gomez
Sakho
Moreno / Gomez
Milner
Henderson
Firmino
Couthinho
Sturridge
Beneteke

2nd:
Bogdan

?(Toure?)
Illori
Lovren
?(Moreno/Gomez)
Lucas
Allen
Lallana
?(Couthinho/Firmino)
Oirigi
Ings

I wonder how well we're prepared to progress in Europe while maintaining a league challenge tbh.

No Can?

BoardsMember · 01-09-2015 10:54am

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Makes no difference who we buy or sell if the manager isn't using them properly.

He isn't imo.

I'd love to know, in his head, why he bought Benteke. Was it really to use him like he is now? Long balls, flick ons etc. If that is what we have to look forward to....

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:54am

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

No Ibe in either the first or second eleven???

Well that's the question I'm asking. There seems to be a consensus that the diamond / two striker approach is what people would like to see. Where does Ibe fit in with such an approach?

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:55am

Turtyturd wrote: »

No Can?

Sorry, yep. Fixed. It's hard doing this off the top of your head.

Is Can still considered fullback cover maybe?

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 10:57am

Maybe we've just cleared the decks so that Reus can finally join us.

:pac:

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 10:58am

BoardsMember wrote: »

I'd love to know, in his head, why he bought Benteke. Was it really to use him like he is now? Long balls, flick ons etc. If that is what we have to look forward to....

He wasn't being used like that against Stoke.

Agent Coulson · 01-09-2015 10:59am

This is the squad and that squad looks very narrow and lacking in width big time.

Lallana/Firmino/Coutinho/Origi/Ings are not wide players or wingers they maybe used as that by this manager but that is not using them to there strengths.

Mignolet/Bogdan

Clyne

Toure/Skrtel/Ilori/Gomez

Lovren/Sakho

Moreno

Ibe

Henderosn/Lucas/Can/Allen/Milner

Coutinho/Firmino/Lallana/Teixeira

Sturridge/Benteke/Ings/Origi

Kerrigooney · 01-09-2015 11:03am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

This is the squad and that squad looks very narrow and lacking in width big time.

Lallana/Firmino/Coutinho/Origi/Ings are not wide players or wingers they maybe used as that by this manager but that is not using them to there strengths.

Mignolet/Bogdan

Clyne
Toure/Skrtel/Ilori/Gomez
Lovren/Sakho
Moreno

Ibe
Henderosn/Lucas/Can/Allen/Milner

Coutinho/Firmino/Lallana/Teixeira

Sturridge/Benteke/Ings/Origi

When it's laid out like that it's definitely worrying.

eagle eye · 01-09-2015 11:03am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sorry, yep. Fixed. It's hard doing this off the top of your head.

Is Can still considered fullback cover maybe?

What's the story with Flanagan? Is Jose Enrique still there? Is Teixeira gone off on loan again?

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2015 11:04am

Liverpool played their best football since the ahem "classic era" without any wingers two seasons ago. If width is needed then tweak the formation, I'd not be surprised at 4-3-3 in the Europa League and the Cups.

Can---Allen--Milner
Ibe---Origi---Lallana

sort of thing.

eagle eye wrote

What's the story with Flanagan? Is Jose Enrique still there? Is Teixeira gone off on loan again?

Flanno back in new year I think, Enrique off to WBA and Teixeira is still at the club (I whisper this but I think he'll stay)

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2015 11:07am

murpho999 wrote: »

I think it's been a good window as I think we have better quality players coming in than what went out, with the exception of Sterling.

We won't ultimately be able to judge it until we see how the season pans out unfortunately

Is the players in > players out comparison a satisfactory way of judging a window though in of itself? At the outset of the summer we all had opinions on positional / structural needs surely? Have they been addressed?

And are we content with the low investment when it's all said and done?

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2015 11:10am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And are we content with the low investment when it's all said and done?

Ah net spend is back!

Firmino 29m (all in)
Clyne 12m
Benteke 32.5m
Gomez 3.5m
Ings 7m (guess)

That's not scrimping, the club had a list of targets and bar Depay have landed them all.

monkey9 · 01-09-2015 11:16am

Overall I'm very happy with the window in terms of the quality we've brought in and let go. Enrique isn't going to provide us width from behind his Playstation controller or on his Instragram photos of him out for dinner with the Spanish contingent.

We've brought in very good players, but how they're deployed is another matter.

Left back is a problem for us, no doubt. It's always a difficult position to fill successfully.

One thing that annoys me is loaning players out. It wrecks my head the amount of times we do it. I see we're looking to loan Lloris out again though he doesn't want to go. I even seen it mentioned he could be sold.

We bought Lloris on the same day as Sakho with Rodgers saying he was one for the future rather than for now. So when will the 'future' arrive. By all accounts, he was decent in France and was doing well in that youth tournament.

I'd rather see us give him a chance with us to prove himself rather than persist with Da Loever Loever man who has proved he's sh!t.

kfallon · 01-09-2015 11:18am

We should sign Fowler today for the laugh, give everyone a lift after Saturday!

01-09-2015 11:18am

We missed the boat not signing a DM.

Wingers would be nice too.

Turtyturd · 01-09-2015 11:21am

kfallon wrote: »

We should sign Fowler today for the laugh, give everyone a lift after Saturday!

Put in a bid for DeGea for the laugh.

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2015 11:22am

I suppose a bid for Navas or Bolasie would be amusing

Luckycharms_74 · 01-09-2015 11:29am

Fcuk the transfer window and net spend :pac:

Happy birthday to Sturridge :P

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2015 11:29am

monkey9 wrote: »

One thing that annoys me is loaning players out. It wrecks my head the amount of times we do it. I see we're looking to loan Lloris out again though he doesn't want to go. I even seen it mentioned he could be sold.

We bought Lloris on the same day as Sakho with Rodgers saying he was one for the future rather than for now. So when will the 'future' arrive. By all accounts, he was decent in France and was doing well in that youth tournament.

I'd rather see us give him a chance with us to prove himself rather than persist with Da Loever Loever man who has proved he's sh!t.

Apparently Ilori was given the choice as to go to Sunderland on loan or not, he choose not.

OwaynOTT · 01-09-2015 11:30am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When we question things during a window, we are told to wait until the end of the window. It is now the end of the window and there is a trend in our incomings and outgoings:

Out

Jones - Back up goalkeeper
Johnson - Natural Full Back
Manquillo - Natural Full Back
Enrique - Natural Full Back
Gerrard - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Sterling - Pacey dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)
Markovic - Pacey wing forward (can play centrally)
Lambert - Target man
Balotelli - Target man
Borini - dynamic forward (can play across the pitch)

In

Clyne - Natural Full Back
Gomez - Central Defender (can cover left back, jury out)
Milner - Flexible Centre Midfielder
Firminho - No.10
Beneteke - Target Man
Ings - Centre Forward
Oirigi - Forward (can he play in wide positions?)

Seems like we've lost a lot of natural width in the wash there. Is it deliberate? If so, is it a good thing?

And that leaves aside two other questions that, apologies, I'm forced to ask:

- our Net spend is very moderate
- our wage bill has probably decreased yet again

I'm tempted to rate the window negatively but that seems to be a minority view. Do the majority want to lay out an argument for why it is positive? This could be an interesting discussion. And an appropriate one for the day that's in it imo.

You forgot Bogdan as goalkeeper cover and he is a definite upgrade on Jones in my view.

Dickerty wrote: »

Given that we can only play 11 players, and many of the outgoings were a long way away from being selected (Enrique, Lambert, Borini especially), then their departures really don't weaken us. I think we would have kept Manquillo but Atletico recalled him.

Would Markovic be more use to us as an option for 10/15 games, instead of getting his mojo back in 50 games for Fenerbache? I think the latter.
Are Ings and Origi better options than Borini, Balo and Lambert? Yes, probably.
Is Milner an upgrade on Gerrard at 35? Yep.
Is Clyne better than Johnson? Duh...

I think we may have kept Wisdom as cover, and Markovic is a long term play, but that gives someone like Teixeira, Brannagan or Kent a chance to get some minutes.

I think it's a slight positive overall, plus the squad is younger with fewer difficult personalities.

Ya know what, yes Clyne is an upgrade on bad Johnson but he isn't as good as good Johnson from a few years back. He doesn't have that same threat going forward.
Sure he's possibly a better defender but when people can just waltz through the middle or wait for Loveourwren to go under the table, is he really that much of an upgrade?

Turtyturd wrote: »

Put in a bid for DeGea for the laugh.

You must have forgotten that we have all ready signed a capable goalkeeper fro back-up for Linda's clean-sheet machine.

murpho999 · 01-09-2015 11:32am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is the players in > players out comparison a satisfactory way of judging a window though in of itself? At the outset of the summer we all had opinions on positional / structural needs surely? Have they been addressed?

And are we content with the low investment when it's all said and done?

I find it very hard to say until we see how the season pans out. I'm not going to judge them based on Saturday's poor performance.

Look at it this way, none of us were happy with the transfer window of 2013 when we signed the likes of Aspas, Illori , Alberto etc. Biggest success was keeping Suarez.
No one expected us to really got a champion's league spot let alone the season we would go on to have and almost win the league.

Regarding the transfers made I think Rodgers is going for a new tactic this season with Benteke up front and more coming through the middle hence, all our midfielders.

Very curious as to how we line up when Sturridge is back and fully fit.

Knex* · 01-09-2015 11:36am

Apparently Sunderland isn't quite up to the tropical climate of Liverpool, so Illori doesn't want to go there :pac:

Should maybe tell all the potential signings of the city's great climate, and stop them heading to London.

Liverpool FC News/Gossip/Rumours Summer '15

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