Liverpool FC News/Gossip/Rumours Summer '15

corwill

Dickerty wrote: »

That's a big deal, seeing as everyone thinks he is just a mouthpiece for the club!

And he's dead right. Hard to say if there is no strategy, or if this is just Rodgers unwinding decisions he didn't agree with in the first place - Balo, Ilori, Marko all appear to have been players he was given, rather than ones he chose.

Either way, he is left with a pretty thin squad, so let's hope the kids (those not going on loan) are able to fill gaps when needed.

Enrique may actually get a game occasionally, at least we still have 4 FBs on the books.

This is the interlocking of two distinct issues at the club. On one hand, there's FSG's governance-by-committee model reaching into an area of the club where I don't think it belongs, player recruitment. On the other hand, there's Rodgers's own judgement in the same area, as well as in team selection, match preparation and in-game tactics. I think there are reasons to worry on both counts, and I fear that they exacerbate each other.

Anyone know what Nicola Cortese is up to these days?

Crash Bang Wall

Re Rodgers:

The fact that he doesnt rate Ilori means nothing to me....he rates Lovern and doesnt rate Sakho. Surely Ilori, at least deserves the opportunity to make a balls of things before being shipped off?

Against West Ham, he changes a 442 to 3412 when there was no need...all he had to do was bring on Moreno at left back, and move Gomez inside and haul off the appalling Lovern. Watching on Setanta, the commentators mentioned on numerous occasions that it looked like the players in the new system didnt know what they were supposed to be doing!!

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Neither Coutinho or Gomez are wide players. Rodgers had Moreno on the bench who could've played wide in place of either player.

Kirby wrote: »

You try things sometimes, and they dont work. Thats fine but shouting at them to play a position they cannot do effectively instead of changing it, is really poor management.

Ye seriously reckon coutinho being instructed to get out to wide positions during a game is asking too much / poor management?

Ideally coutinho would interchange with firminho from central to wide positions, it gives defences a moving target and makes both fir' & coutinho harder to mark, double up on, creates opportunities for both passing & space for both to run into.

Coutinho is well able to operate from the wing area.

Turtyturd

Gomez looks very small to be playing centre back.

x43r0

Turtyturd wrote: »

Gomez looks very small to be playing centre back.

He's a good 5 inches taller than Cannavaro :pac: (Just Saying)

murpho999

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Re Rodgers:

The fact that he doesnt rate Ilori means nothing to me....he rates Lovern and doesnt rate Sakho. Surely Ilori, at least deserves the opportunity to make a balls of things before being shipped off?

Against West Ham, he changes a 442 to 3412 when there was no need...all he had to do was bring on Moreno at left back, and move Gomez inside and haul off the appalling Lovern. Watching on Setanta, the commentators mentioned on numerous occasions that it looked like the players in the new system didnt know what they were supposed to be doing!!

I don't agree that Moreno is the solution as I find his defending poor and probably worse that Lovren on occasions.

I think there Lovren could come good but just going through a confidence crisis whilst Moreno focusses too much on his attacking play, a good quality to have but neglecting his defensive duties and skills.

rob316

Redknapp clearly throwing his hat in the ring for the job should it become vacant :rolleyes:

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

..... for the job should it become vacant..

Unless Rodgers goes on to be Liverpool manager for the next 5 to 10 years ( which would mean he'd be after doing lots of good things like 2013/2014 ) we could well find ourselves with worse than Redknapp at the helm :eek:

Rogers >>>> Redknapp imo just in case folks are wondering.

garra

Dickerty wrote: »

So all they are really trying to do is cover their initial outlay. But if he does well, that's a bargain price.

Personally, I don't think his attributes are best suited to the PL. He may be quick, but he'll get bullied in physical games, of which there are many...

Yep agreed, if you are not strongly built then you need to be agressive by nature in order to operate at centre back in premiership.. Ilori could look at someone like Carvalho for modelling his game.

NukaCola

Moreno is poor at defending. Him as a WB is the best solution with 3 CBs, he is very good at getting forward but he has a lot of defensive blindspots that hopefully will improve. In a back 4 with Lovren starting we would be a mess. Our left side would be absolutely destroyed.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

Rogers >>>> Redknapp imo just in case folks are wondering.

Thats it for the day isn't it.......a long boring irrelevant debate on who is better........damn you!! :P

Francie Barrett

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Here is the full loan list including those who I will not be covering as they are not "developing" and/or coming back

T. Awoniyi FSV Frankfurt (season)
Sergi Canós Brentford (January)
S. Yeşil Luzern (season)
L. Marković Fenerbahçe (season)
J. Maguire Leyton Orient (one month)
H. Wilson Crewe (January)
S. Ojo Wolverhampton (season)
A. Wisdom Norwich (season)
L. Jones Blackpool (season)
K. Stewart Swindon (season)
J. Williams Swindon (season)
L. Vigouroux Swindon (season)


Tiago Ilori Aston Villa (season to buy)
M. Balotelli Milan (season)
Luis Alberto La Coruña (season)

Others who may yet go out are Jerome Sinclair (all gone quiet on that front), Jack Dunn, Ryan Kent and Cameron Brannagan.

Can't believe you forgot Enrique :pac:

Seamu$

Our lack of width is a major concern, especially on the left. Ibe is probably the only proper winger in the squad & even he has a tendency to cut inside a lot. Probably makes us very predictable to defend against now.

When Sturridge returns what do people think will be the first choice XI?

Personally, despite the lack of specialist DM, I would like to see how the following side would get on:

---

Mig

---

Clyne--Skrtel--Sakho--Moreno

---

Hendo----Milner

---

---

Coutinho

---

----Sturridge----Firmino

---

---

Benteke

---

It's a bit like a 4-2-3-1 which is a system Rodgers doesn't tend to use so not necessarily expecting to see it much. Otherwise, I can't see the front 4 players getting on the pitch at the same time much, one will be omitted to accommodate Lucas/Can/Allen in midfield.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

Moreno..... In a back 4 with Lovren starting we would be a mess. .....

No doubt, I think if Moreno is at full back Lovren needs to be in the stand.

Grayditch

I uses to be really interested in reading about how the loanees are getting on. Now there's so many sold or let go, so it's hard to care. Whatever ones make the grade, well... I'll be out of the loop, but so be it.

K-9

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Neither Coutinho or Gomez are wide players. Rodgers had Moreno on the bench who could've played wide in place of either player.

I was reading a blog piece last week suggesting Rodgers was going to go with the same eleven for these 4 games and it turned out that way, Lucas was an enforced change and Firmino was gradually introduced. Maybe that was just playing the team that got results but Gomes was always going to show his inexperience at some stage and Moreno did have some game time.

I just didn't see the need for picking the same team with the squad options we do have. Maybe Moreno and Ibe could have started. With plenty of games coming up we'll be using the squad anyway. Looking back at the Arsenal match our best attacking threat was from pressing high and forcing mistakes, we haven't really created much besides that at all.

Its hard to make any sense of it, still confused after Saturday.

I can see why Ilori is on loan tbh, PL experience which he probably won't get here, just Cup and Europa game time and he mightn't even start many of those. Sakho is a necessity now as the Lovren experiment failed.

Knex*

Grayditch wrote: »

I uses to be really interested in reading about how the loanees are getting on. Now there's so many sold or let go, so it's hard to care. Whatever ones make the grade, well... I'll be out of the loop, but so be it.

If someone is doing really well, you'll hear about it eventually.

Kerrigooney

Augeo wrote: »

No doubt, I think if Moreno is at full back Lovren needs to be in the stand.

Makes no difference who is playing full back...Lovren needs to be in the stand anyway.

He'll probably stick with him tho :mad:

Agent Coulson

Rodgers has a major decision now with Lovren for the Utd game.

If he drops him that's basically telling Lovren I gave you the chance and you blew it that's Lovren done for the season in his own head.

If he plays him and he fcuks up that is Lovren again done for the season.

If plays and he is superb man of the match and scores the winning goal we all know that will go to his head and he will fcuk up again pretty soon and cost the team in an important game.

Francie Barrett

Seamu$ wrote: »

Our lack of width is a major concern, especially on the left. Ibe is probably the only proper winger in the squad & even he has a tendency to cut inside a lot. Probably makes us very predictable to defend against now.

When Sturridge returns what do people think will be the first choice XI?

Personally, despite the lack of specialist DM, I would like to see how the following side would get on:

---

Mig

---

Clyne--Skrtel--Sakho--Moreno

---

Hendo----Milner

---

---

Coutinho

---

----Sturridge----Firmino

---

---

Benteke

---

It's a bit like a 4-2-3-1 which is a system Rodgers doesn't tend to use so not necessarily expecting to see it much. Otherwise, I can't see the front 4 players getting on the pitch at the same time much, one will be omitted to accommodate Lucas/Can/Allen in midfield.

Agreed. Ibe has started poorly and is maybe a better option off the bench. Lallana has been largely disappointing too. With the attack basically broken right now, it'd be great to see our best four attackers on the field at once.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

He'll probably stick with him tho :mad:

BR presumably see's a hell of a lot more of him than we do, and I know a lot of people are annoyed with BR but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he knows what he wants at CB.

He did drop Lovren last season and I presume he is giving him a second chance to get into the team. We kept 3 clean sheets so there was absolutely no way he would be dropped against West Ham. He did make a few glaring mistakes this season before the WH game but surely now BR has enough evidence to relegate him back to the bench. He's a write off IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lovren starts again next game and that decision will directly cost us points.

Seamu$

Sappy404 wrote: »

It's a shame about Ilori. On paper he sounds like an excellent young player. In reality though he made only sporadic appearances in the last 2 years on loan and not only because of his terrible injury record. It's quite likely he's simply not good enough for the club, and his lack of competitive appearances for us probably underlines that more than it contradicts it.

The thing that I wonder about Ilori most is why didn't he get any opportunity at all, especially looking at what has happened with Gomez? Gomez goes straight into the starting XI at the beginning of a new season out of position, and Ilori looks like he'll never kick a ball competitively for us despite playing well on loan & in international tournaments.

Would love to know what the difference in situations was.

brevity

Lovren is going to start against Utd.I can feel it in me waters.

kfallon

NukaCola wrote: »

BR presumably see's a hell of a lot more of him than we do, and I know a lot of people are annoyed with BR but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he knows what he wants at CB.

There's no point in being a 'Morning Glory' player, doing it every morning at Melwood and then being a disaster in games! On the pitch is where it counts. You can be the best trainer in the club but if you're shíte on the pitch you've no business being on it!

Seamu$

Axel Witsel in January anyone?!

http://www.football365.com/premier-league/9975076/Witsel-Shame-I-Couldn-t-Leave

Kerrigooney

The more I think about it the more I wish he had been sent off for the elbow against Stoke,was it? Would have saved us a lot of crap.

Crash Bang Wall

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't agree that Moreno is the solution as I find his defending poor and probably worse that Lovren on occasions.

I think there Lovren could come good but just going through a confidence crisis whilst Moreno focusses too much on his attacking play, a good quality to have but neglecting his defensive duties and skills.

But at 2-0 down it was an obvious change to make...was clear that we had no width on the left, and West Ham had a CB at RB as well

I agrree however that Moreno is not a long term solution, as his defence is poor....but he was the right player to have at LB chasing the game....based on what we have anyway

NukaCola

kfallon wrote: »

There's no point in being a 'Morning Glory' player, doing it every morning at Melwood and then being a disaster in games! On the pitch is where it counts. You can be the best trainer in the club but if you're shíte on the pitch you've no business being on it!

I agree. After the 4 games there is enough data for BR to realise Lovren is not up to it. I dont have a problem with BR giving a player a second chance though but enough is enough. Lovren should be dropped and if he isn't it will cost us.

Harry Palmr

Grayditch wrote: »

I uses to be really interested in reading about how the loanees are getting on. Now there's so many sold or let go, so it's hard to care. Whatever ones make the grade, well... I'll be out of the loop, but so be it.

Grayditch

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hahaha. Don't stop on my lazy, frustrated account. I'm just disillusioned with it all.

LuckyLloyd

What players loaned out that have returned to us have gone on to have a key impact? Ibe is probably the best of the bunch to date right?

Agent Coulson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What players loaned out that have returned to us have gone on to have a key impact? Ibe is probably the best of the bunch to date right?

Also which loan players have also gone on to make the club a significant profit instead of breaking even or losing money.

If the club are going to try and do a Chelsea in the loan market they would need to start making a decent profit on these players to make financially worth while.

Harry Palmr

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What players loaned out that have returned to us have gone on to have a key impact? Ibe is probably the best of the bunch to date right?

Yep, of course this is still pretty new territory for Liverpool, the current crop of loans will be interesting as there are some proper talents like Ojo, Wilson, Ward. I'd have hope for all three to either make a contribution or raise some decent money eventually (Ward is 22 but the other two are only nippers at 18)

Dickerty

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yep, of course this is still pretty new territory for Liverpool, the current crop of loans will be interesting as there are some proper talents like Ojo, Wilson, Ward. I'd have hope for all three to either make a contribution or raise some decent money eventually (Ward is 22 but the other two are only nippers at 18)

Very few players go on loan from top clubs and them make the break-through. Someone like Kane is a rare example. Clubs usually know by 18 whether they are going to be a star or not, like we had with Gerrard, Owen, Carra, Fowler and Sterling. If they are that good, they'll get the chance in and around the first team.

djPSB

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah, tough auld decision alright.

Can imagine them around the conference table; "So lads, should we go for someone good, or someone not so good?"

Sadly, i could easily see them opting for the latter.

It depends on the project they have to sell.

If they're going to continue to cut wage budgets and sell our best players, Klopp would not be interested.

Chardee MacDennis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What players loaned out that have returned to us have gone on to have a key impact? Ibe is probably the best of the bunch to date right?

pacheco! oh no, wait. Suso, oh :mad:

Augme

Seamu$ wrote: »

The thing that I wonder about Ilori most is why didn't he get any opportunity at all, especially looking at what has happened with Gomez? Gomez goes straight into the starting XI at the beginning of a new season out of position, and Ilori looks like he'll never kick a ball competitively for us despite playing well on loan & in international tournaments.

Would love to know what the difference in situations was.

Performance in training most likely.

Harry Palmr

Dickerty wrote: »

Very few players go on loan from top clubs and them make the break-through. Someone like Kane is a rare example. Clubs usually know by 18 whether they are going to be a star or not, like we had with Gerrard, Owen, Carra, Fowler and Sterling. If they are that good, they'll get the chance in and around the first team.

We'll see, I'd have Ward in the senior squad but for the fact Boggers is there so Ward is getting games every week and proving himself a good quality stopper. When he is sold a buy back clause might be wise. Maybe I'm far too optimistic but I retain high hopes for Ojo and Wilson. Look at Teixeira, Rodgers indicated late last season that he was in his plans then he broke his leg and everyone probably assumed he was a goner. He is still at the club and hopefully the cups and EL can give him the chance to prove his silky skills are good enough.

Magico Gonzalez

Surely if he performs at Villa we can have him back? How does this option to buy work? Does it mean they can buy him regardless if we want to sell or not? Surely we could just set a ridiculous price and have him back.

Did Brendan win an argument over the summer? "Committee" signings out, his own picks in? This years picks at least look more solid but they've a lot to do yet.

Grayditch

It's very easy to forget about the entire existence of Iago Aspas.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Surely if he performs at Villa we can have him back? How does this option to buy work? Does it mean they can buy him regardless if we want to sell or not? Surely we could just set a ridiculous price and have him back.

Did Brendan win an argument over the summer? "Committee" signings out, his own picks in? This years picks at least look more solid but they've a lot to do yet.

The purchase fee is set a t £6-9m depending on appearances. He has the option to refuse to go to villa if he feels he will get a chance at Liverpool but, unless villa get relegated, he would be silly not to go there if he was playing:mad:

Utopia Parkway

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Rodgers has a major decision now with Lovren for the Utd game.

If he drops him that's basically telling Lovren I gave you the chance and you blew it that's Lovren done for the season in his own head.

If he plays him and he fcuks up that is Lovren again done for the season.

If plays and he is superb man of the match and scores the winning goal we all know that will go to his head and he will fcuk up again pretty soon and cost the team in an important game.

I will be surprised if he doesn't select Lovren. For better or worse Rodgers seems to have hitched his wagon to Lovren's and is determined to prove himself right and everyone else wrong.

Harry Palmr

Grayditch wrote: »

It's very easy to forget about the entire existence of Iago Aspas.

As he is now a Celta Vigo player and Liverpool got most of the money back he is a non issue for all of us its fair to say.

Nerdlingr

I'd be surprised if lovren is dropped as well. He's had a high profile error and has got punished for it. If it were the case that the manager was to rotate his backline everytime someone makes a mistake, the whole defence would be on the carousel.

Grayditch

Harry Palmr wrote: »

As he is now a Celta Vigo player and Liverpool got most of the money back he is a non issue for all of us its fair to say.

I know, I sometimes just see old stats and think. Oh yeah. Him.

brevity

There are some kinda weird similarities between Rodgers and Lovren. I think they both suffer from the need to prove that they are good at what they do. Not because they are short on confidence but because of their hubris.

I remember when Rodgers was signed there was this big drive with him doing interviews about his tactical nous... now that I think about it, it was quite strange to have a manger of a club prattle on for 30 mins about how he sees the game and how he was going to set up his team...this, IMO, was to show everyone that he knows what he is doing.

Lovren also suffers from something similar, he didn't want to put the ball out for a throw because he felt he needed to prove to everyone that he was able to get out of the situation with "skill"...he tried to do his stepovers and falls on his ass...the simple option doesn't exist for him for some time reason.

The two of them have this strange over-confidence and the need to express this. It's ****ing everything up.

Turtyturd

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I'd be surprised if lovren is dropped as well. He's had a high profile error and has got punished for it. If it were the case that the manager was to rotate his backline everytime someone makes a mistake, the whole defence would be on the carousel.

There's mistakes and then there's what Olvren did.

Nerdlingr

Turtyturd wrote: »

There's mistakes and then there's what Olvren did.

Hopefully this'll be a lesson to him and next time he'll lump it into the stand.
For all the jumping on the bandwagon, the defence have had 3 clean sheets out of 4 so far this year, and were excellent away to Arsenal. I wouldnt go dumping on Lovren just yet and destroying whatever confidence he has left.

Turtyturd

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Hopefully this'll be a lesson to him and next time he'll lump it into the stand.
For all the jumping on the bandwagon, the defence have had 3 clean sheets out of 4 so far this year, and were excellent away to Arsenal. I wouldnt go dumping on Lovren just yet and destroying whatever confidence he has left.

I can see the point, but on the opposite side of the coin keeping him in the squad means an infinitely better defender sitting on the bench wondering of he'll ever get a game.

Connavar

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Hopefully this'll be a lesson to him and next time he'll lump it into the stand.
For all the jumping on the bandwagon, the defence have had 3 clean sheets out of 4 so far this year, and were excellent away to Arsenal. I wouldnt go dumping on Lovren just yet and destroying whatever confidence he has left.

3 clean sheets but 1 of those had a perfectly legit goal disallowed(arsenal) and another had one that probably would have been given in most cases(Bournemouth).