Hitman 5

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I have to say this would be probably the worst thing that could happen to gamers since pre-ordering games came into existence

Holy hyperbole, Batman!

FAILSAFE 00

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Holy hyperbole, Batman!

It's not that difficult to see.

Game development studios these days care about two things. Profit and less risk. The gamer is further down the list.

They will simply abuse the situation and tell us it's for our own good. We'll get lots PR statements saying it's for the good of the game, it will give them time to refine the game and so own.

bigphil2

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I have to say this would be probably the worst thing that could happen to gamers since pre-ordering games came into existence



It's dangerous what Square Enix are doing.

Its a model that wont suit every game.. it fits this game perfectly though.

Also,if they feck it up,they will never be able to do it again,due to gamers being the pernickity bunch that we are..

I would say don't shout it down till you have reason to.. or at least until you have played the game..
No one would try anything new ,ever, otherwise..

Captain Chaos

I think this is the route they had to take to get this IP back on track after the mess of the last game. At least this way they will get real time sales feedback and adjust as needed instead instead of releasing a full price mess again and destroying a very good IP in the process.

Ubi need to do this for the next Splinter Cell imo as Blacklist was terrible and Conviction was more like 24 the game.

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Game development studios these days care about two things. Profit and less risk. The gamer is further down the list.

Of course they need to make money! Breaking even or profit isn't some luxury that comes if you're lucky - it's something essential to keep a studio alive, staff employed and the games flowing.

Now if you're talking about some radical political and social revolution that sees the collapse of the corrupt, deeply flawed capitalist system and its replacement with some progressive socialist structure that allows for the free distribution of artistic works will ensuring the creators can survive and work freely... I'm all with you. But in the current marketplace people have to make money, and I'm not really sure how that's something to be sneered at or dismissed.

But let's be frank here: we're not talking about some independent art game here where the creator needs a few thousand sales to put bread on the table, let alone make a sustainable livelihood out of game creation. We're talking the fifth sequel in a long-running AAA franchise about murdering people in blackly comic ways, published by one of the biggest gaming corporations in the world. If you're looking for creatively and commercially risky works, I'd put forward you're looking in the wrong place.

And again I'm struggling, or failing to see how anybody is getting screwed over here. Customers aren't sheep unless they want to be. They can choose to reject or embrace this business model however they want. Frankly, I find this a far more flexible business model than 'full price or bust' - it allows players to dip their toes, or pay in instalments, or pay full hog if they wish, whenever they wish. If it fails, it fails, but I believe experiments to move these sort of games away from the predominant pricing method are to be encouraged. And in the long term I think it could be a creatively beneficial model - where short, focused experiences like MGS: Ground Zeroes or The Last of Us: Left Behind can exist alongside the sprawling, expensive full price releases.

FAILSAFE 00

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I think this is the route they had to take to get this IP back on track after the mess of the last game. At least this way they will get real time sales feedback and adjust as needed instead instead of releasing a full price mess again and destroying a very good IP in the process.

Ubi need to do this for the next Splinter Cell imo as Blacklist was terrible and Conviction was more like 24 the game.

Thats the dangerous part. I see people talking about this online saying the devs will be able to fix, adjust and add content. Also people are commenting that the game will be more refined because its episodic. Its a AAA title. If it wasn't refined in the last few years of development it wont be becoming anymore refined.

We basically haven't a clue what they will or wont do.

We only know a vague amount about this game. There is only a short timeline of a few months of content then everything else states coming later in 2016.

People are making purchases based on assumptions.

Developers can get games right without having to switch to being episodic. Of course they'll claim that its for the good of the gamer but lets face it that is not true.

bigphil2

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

People are making purchases based on assumptions.

Thats why there is a €15 version on launch..

I'm sure they would like to get the €60 off everyone that buys the game,so maybe get the cheap one first and make an informed decision then instead?

Generic Dreadhead

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

People are making purchases based on assumptions.

Just don't buy it so?

Stone Deaf 4evr

people have very short memories,

we've gone from horse armor to season passes full of unspecified content that cost the same price as the base game in what seems like the blink of an eye, coupled with content thats already on disc being locked behind paywalls, purchasable xp boosts, coin doublers, burn cards, req packs, etc etc.

they're now making the transition from releasing finished working games, to releasing finished broken games (BF4, AC Unity etc) to feeding you scraps of content at a time, presumably in an effort to keep cashflow up. you'll effectively be buying a vertical slice of a finished product.

what happens if sales figures of episode 1 aren't in line with their targets (and lets not forget the ludicrous figures square enix like to set as their targets for success http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-26-tomb-raider-has-sold-3-4-million-copies-failed-to-hit-expectations). you've got half or quarter of a story with no resolution. At least telltale have a proven track record of delivering the episodes one after another, but they've had their stumbles and delays too.

Generic Dreadhead

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

At least telltale have a proven track record of delivering the episodes one after another, but they've had their stumbles and delays too.

As much as I enjoy their games, let's not hold tell-tale up there like the 2nd coming of christ of Episodic release studios.

5 months betweens episodes (in GoT) is a farce in fairness and their pacing is all over the place in certain titles (tWD).

This is not a "All Studios will convert to this if it works" type scenario, it's more of a "Square Enix wanting to reach fro the stars using a step ladder". They seem like a studio trying to a 500 person job with 200 staff which in of itself is pathetic.

At least, one could argue, that Hitman is just a bunch of standalone sandboxes which fit the episodic formulae nicely.... FF7 re-make on the other hand, not so much.

Capcom and Square Enix will blow ahead trying to re-invnet the wheel and ultimately will end up like Konami

Stone Deaf 4evr

Cormac... wrote: »

As much as I enjoy their games, let's not hold tell-tale up there like the 2nd coming of christ of Episodic release studios.

5 months betweens episodes (in GoT) is a farce in fairness and their pacing is all over the place in certain titles (tWD).

Hence why I said that they've had their stumbles and delays too

Generic Dreadhead

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Hence why I said that they've had their stumbles and delays too

5 months is less of a stumble, and more of a "The horse was shot on the race track so the bred a new horse, trained it be a race horse, the jockey had a child who they trained to be a jockey and that new horse and jockey did a montage of them training and then they finished the race, freeze frames, fade to black and white, credits roll"

Dair76

My impression was that most of the game has been completed already, bar some fine tuning to the later episodes. I just don't see them abandoning the whole thing if the first couple of installemnts don't sell, given that they've already put the in the majority of the time and money. Besides, if they're offering a final full version at the end of the release schedule, then they already expect that some people will be waiting.

FAILSAFE 00

bigphil2 wrote: »

Thats why there is a €15 version on launch..

I'm sure they would like to get the €60 off everyone that buys the game,so maybe get the cheap one first and make an informed decision then instead?

Thats one of the issues. If you buy it episode by episode it will surely cost more than €60 if the intro pack is €15.

It sucks that I need to spend €15 on an intro pack to get a feel for the game. The intro pack will still be no guarantee that later missions/locations will be any better.

I think it would have just been better to come out with the full game and have critics review it and people play it and then make a truly informed decision.

Cormac... wrote: »

Just don't buy it so?

Wow I never thought of that. Thank you for your insightful contribution :rolleyes:

gizmo

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Thats one of the issues. If you buy it episode by episode it will surely cost more than €60 if the intro pack is €15.

It sucks that I need to spend €15 on an intro pack to get a feel for the game. The intro pack will still be no guarantee that later missions/locations will be any better.

I think it would have just been better to come out with the full game and have critics review it and people play it and then make a truly informed decision.

You posted the costing breakdown earlier in the thread. Buying the intro pack and then each episode individually will cost you $65. If you buy the Complete Pack it'll cost you $60. The only negative to the pricing is that buying the episodes separately works out as the same price as buying the Intro Pack and then the Upgrade Pack.

So yea, the best course of action seems to be wait for reviews of all the content and, if you want it, buy the Complete Pack.

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I think it would have just been better to come out with the full game and have critics review it and people play it and then make a truly informed decision.

Critics review or at very least write about 'episodes' of games all the time, before looking back at it at the end as a full game or season or whatever. Players play them, and give their own feedback online. People knew 'Life is Strange' was worth playing due to the increased chatter as every subsequent episode was released, just as they were aware 'Game of Thrones' was getting very mixed feedback throughout its run. There is no reason why somebody looking at an episodically released game cannot make an informed decision - whether that's by following the feedback as the episodes are released or waiting until the end to make their fully informed decision then. They can hop on board (or not) whenever they want, and if somebody is happy to throw down full price based on no feedback whatsoever or even one episode's worth of content that's their own decision, frankly.

Captain Chaos

Anyone know where to download the beta on PSN. I know it goes live at 10am, I'm assuming they will just add it on the store somewhere.

bigphil2

It should be in the Demo's section,thats where Betas usually are,The ivision one was there//

FAILSAFE 00

You have to pre-order the game to access the beta.

Captain Chaos

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

You have to pre-order the game to access the beta.

I did, twice:D

€15 for a taste of a new Hitman game, hard to resist imo from what has been shown so far. If it flops it's only €15.

Zero-Cool

Anyone play the Beta? any thoughts on it?

Livestream here

corcaigh07

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I did, twice:D

€15 for a taste of a new Hitman game, hard to resist imo from what has been shown so far. If it flops it's only €15.

You can cancel your pre-order in your transaction history as soon as the Beta is already downloading. And, you can pre-order even if you don't have funds available, I only have about a fiver left of credit and don't have any card details attached.

ERG89

How much is the upgrade pack on the ps4. Tempted to get the intro but can't see the option to upgrade on the store, only the full experience or intro?

Haven't played it myself but I was watching my brother play it earlier, frame rate drops noticeably in places but it looks good. Gameplay seemed very close to Blood Money which is a good thing.

bigphil2

ERG89 wrote: »

How much is the upgrade pack on the ps4. Tempted to get the intro but can't see the option to upgrade on the store, only the full experience or intro?

I think the extra maps/level will be €9.99 each when they come out.. it works out about €5 cheaper to buy the Full version

Captain Chaos

It's good but it needs some refinements. The controls are a bit clunky when doing some things. The AI is good. I did notice the frame rate take some drops at times with large crowds of people.

It's back to Blood Money which is a good thing. I'm still keeping my pre order for this anyway.

Robert ninja

From watching some stream footage and talking... it seems like a big upgrade from Absolution. Very nice to see.

However there's some things that are red flags for me.

Giant 99 font messages to tell you when you're tresspassing or doing whatever. Like... that was self-explanitory in previous games. You knew where you weren't supposed to be because there was gates, guards, signs... it was just obvious... and you studied the guard routes, which doors they'd go through to get an idea of what disguises could get you where. The game was always for the thinking player.

The HUD shows way too much. All 4 corners of the screen are displaying info. Arcade combo on bottom right, action log on top right that never fades, mini map on bottom left (sin for a hitman game imo), and a constant mission objective on top left... just in case you can't remember your mission right after the long intro explaining it! And on top of that... there's 3D elements and makers in the level... and x-ray vision! How babied does the player need to be? I sure hope all of this is gone in pro mode.

The UI is designed around a gamepad... huge full-screen buttons and tabs, hold-to-execute actions (which delays things) from Absolution.

No first person view.

But despite all this... it seems like it's worth the money. I'll probably pick it up when it's fully completed. Really wish there was a demo.

dohboy

I enjoy Hitman but it annoys me how 47 is a massive bald guy with a barcode on the back of his head. It just looks dense.

FAILSAFE 00

dohboy wrote: »

I enjoy Hitman but it annoys me how 47 is a massive bald guy with a barcode on the back of his head. It just looks dense.

It's handy for the self service checkout tills at Tesco.

It's always been quite funny how the guards notice nothing suspicious about a bald guy with a barcode on his head.

ERG89

Played through the two short Beta missions tonight.

Nice to play it & not feel boxed in to murder sprees. I killed the target on the boat with a silenced pistol & then killed him with the poison followed by drowning in the toilet The second mission I couldn't but kill using the hard to ignore ejection seat method

Enjoyed it but I hope that the main game missions are larger as I played through the ones tonight in half an hour.