Dividing wall/fence

borderlinemeath

I have a house that I rent out, it used to be my home before I began living with my now husband and the house next doors garden was always overgrown, even when I lived there over 10 years ago. I used to trim the hedge as best I could from my side as it was completely overgrown on the other and far too high for me to reach even on a tall ladder.

Fast forward to now and the house was sold and the new owner wants me to pay for half a new fence. He also wants to cut down the hedge but insists it's mine so it's mine to dispose of? It's a border hedge rather than mine or his, and he's already cleared out the garden of the trees, and weeds that probably had at least 15 years untouched growth. My husband who is dealing with him has told him that if he wants to take the hedge down, that we don't have a problem and if he wants to put up a new fence, which is what he suggested then he can, but at his expense as it's his want.

Would I be obliged in any way to have to contribute to his new fence, and removal of existing hedge even though it's a border fence? The hedge was always maintained from my side, NEVER from his side when it was the old owner and I can still maintain it, but if he wants to take it out and replace it, on his expense so be it.

MouseTail

I don't think you are obliged to, but I would think its the right thing to do to contribute, it sounds as if its got to a stage where the hedge is difficult and time consuming to maintain, and a fence is a better option.

borderlinemeath

MouseTail wrote: »

I don't think you are obliged to, but I would think its the right thing to do to contribute, it sounds as if its got to a stage where the hedge is difficult and time consuming to maintain, and a fence is a better option.

But he knew this when he bought the house. The reason it has become so overgrown completely stems from the previous owners lack of care, not from my side. It has always been trimmed back and maintained from my side, but because it is hugely encroaching on his garden, that he purchased in the particular state it is, is why he wants it removed.

Sheldons Brain

Perhaps he should pay. or mostly pay,for removal of the hedge, if it is mostly on his side and you could split the cost of the fence. This way you get some input into the type of fence and you can get something that can be maintained from your persepective.

hdowney

Sheldons Brain wrote:

Perhaps he should pay. or mostly pay,for removal of the hedge, if it is mostly on his side and you could split the cost of the fence. This way you get some input into the type of fence and you can get something that can be maintained from your persepective.

I agree with this. You are happy to just maintain the hedge as you have been. If he wanhe rid he should pay. But I think it fair for he to go halves on a fence. Once side will be yours to decorate etc as you see fit and the other his

borderlinemeath

TBH, it's a rental house and paying for a new fence when the dividing hedge works perfectly adequately isn't something that was in the budget. It just about covers itself rentwise and I pay a decent sum to revenue every year along with every other expense that the government has lumbered landlords with. Somehow I don't see a bit of cosmetic landscaping falling under the HRI so I doubt I'd claw back the expense. The small contingency fund for the house is for the likes of emergency plumbing/boiler repairs or replacement/repair of kitchen appliances if they break.

MouseTail

I don't think erection of a fence would be viewed as cosmetic landscaping, I would imagine its tax deductable.

borderlinemeath

MouseTail wrote: »

I don't think erection of a fence would be viewed as cosmetic landscaping, I would imagine its tax deductable.

It may be suitable to be written off over 8 years but I don't think it counts as a "home improvement", that scheme was implemented to bring shoddy rentals up to standard rather than making a garden look prettier (for the new neighbour!)

Mrs OBumble

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It just about covers itself rentwise and I pay a decent sum to revenue every year along with every other expense that the government has lumbered landlords with.

You are really not giving LLs a good name here.

If you pay "a decent sum to revenue every year", then the rent you are getting must be more than "just about covers itself", once you deduct your expenses, a depreciated amount for maintenance and 75% of interest.

The work which your new neighbour has done will most likely have improved the neighbourhood and your property. The fence will make your property more secure.

Fair enough to kick back about being asked to pay for all the removal. But you should definitely be paying for half of the fence.

borderlinemeath

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You are really not giving LLs a good name here.

What makes a good landlord though? I would have thought somebody who was proactive with repairs and maintenance and replacing items as needed - ie appliances and beds etc. The tenants have no issue with the hedge, the garden is fairly big and south facing so once it stays trimmed it doesn't impact on their enjoyment of the garden. I actually don't like the fence panels that the neighbour has suggested, they're the regular panels that tend to blow over in high winds. If anything I'd be more inclined to put up a chain link fence and cut the hedge right back to manageable levels.

Would you like to be asked to pay for something because your neighbour decided he wants to do it? He bought the house "as seen", he knew the state of the garden and should have figured if he wants to put up a fence then it's at his expense. We have suggested he cuts back his side of the hedge and erect his own fence if he so wishes.

If you pay "a decent sum to revenue every year", then the rent you are getting must be more than "just about covers itself", once you deduct your expenses, a depreciated amount for maintenance and 75% of interest.

I haven't increased the rent in 2 years as the tenants are good and I would be happy for them to stay, I could increase it by 25% and the rent would still be under comparable properties in the area given how rents have increased in Dublin. The mortgage is halfway through it's term and the interest isn't all that much any more.
As for expenses, they vary from year to year as with all properties. In 2013 I had a fairly decent amount of expenses due to renovations but not so much last year bar maintenance so not much to write down at all bar the usual yearly expenses so I will be paying "a decent sum" this year.

The work which your new neighbour has done will most likely have improved the neighbourhood and your property. The fence will make your property more secure.

Fair enough to kick back about being asked to pay for all the removal. But you should definitely be paying for half of the fence.

I doubt that one house can improve an entire neighbourhood. The front of the house always looked fairly inoffensive, it had a fully concrete driveway so no overgrowth, it was the back garden that was completely ignored. No more secure, it's a mid terrace which backs onto another row of terraces so if somebody really wanted to break into my house they would need to jump a lot of walls to enter.

Dogowner55

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You are really not giving LLs a good name here.

If you pay "a decent sum to revenue every year", then the rent you are getting must be more than "just about covers itself", once you deduct your expenses, a depreciated amount for maintenance and 75% of interest.

The work which your new neighbour has done will most likely have improved the neighbourhood and your property. The fence will make your property more secure.

Fair enough to kick back about being asked to pay for all the removal. But you should definitely be paying for half of the fence.

A fence isn't really more secure then a hedge and she maintains their side, I always think hedges look better then a fence especially if the new homeowner looks after their side now.

Why should they pay for a fence that won't bring them anything.

bgo1

OP is correct..initiated by neighbour so they pay at least for the cut down and removal of the hedge. The fence on agreement of its design and cost can be split between the two.

But..why replace a hedge that might at least bring some wildlife and greenery to an urban setting, just requires a few hours trimming once per year. No biggie.

seamus

bgo1 wrote: »

But..why replace a hedge that might at least bring some wildlife and greenery to an urban setting, just requires a few hours trimming once per year. No biggie.

Because they take up space. I've moved into a place with a row of hedging all along one side of the garden, about 2m tall and 0.75m wide. The garden is just over 4m wide and the hedge blocks some sunshine, so it's all coming down and I'm reclaiming that space.

In the OP's case, if the hedge is genuinely a border hedge and not sitting wholly in either property, then I'd be inclined to split the costs. But if it's in his property, then disposal is his problem.

As others say I would likely split the cost of the fence so that you have some say in how it looks from both sides.

durtybit

If you want a fence give him half of the money if you don't then don't give him anything, there is no obligation. He can't remove the hedge without your permission either if its bordering both properties.

Wabbit Ears

Im going to side with the consensus here. Neighbour bears cost of removal as its his request. Fence to be paid for by both parties. If you don't pay you have no say in materials of the fence, colour or finish. Fence implies a wooden divide. These also require maintenance annually so if you are replacing the hedge with something, why a 'fence? why not a wall? more expensive but better bang for your buck IMHO.

Victor

Amounts of rent earned or tax paid is irrelevant.

Moderator

---

As I understand it, any change to the boundary needs the agreement of both owners (and appropriate consent of the tenants who are entitled to peaceable occupation of the garden).

If the neighbour wants a fence, I think they should pay for it. However, if you want a say in the fence and to have neighbourly relations, then it might be important to contribute.

Do not pay the neighbour anything - it's a well known scam for such neighbours and their contractors to defraud property owners. If anything, employ your own contractor, but make sure you do it properly.

iguana

If you don't want the fence, you have no moral or legal obligation to pay for it. Simply tell the new owner of the neighbouring property that as it happens you would prefer the hedge to be left where it is as you like it far more than fencing. But that in the interest of being a good neighbour you will allow him to replace it if that's what he wants. However you will not pay for it as it isn't something that you want.

I bought my house last year and knew that in many places along the boundary the wall/fence would need replacing. I factored that into my budget as if the neighbours have lived with it as it is, it obviously isn't bothering them, so if I wanted to change things, that's my entirely my financial responsibility.

If you are happy with the hedge then tell them you are and have no interest in removing it but if they want to go ahead at their own cost.

I certainly wouldn't be paying a cent towards something I didn't want particularly in a property I had let.

A well kept hedge is nicer than a fence also and gives a nicer feel to the garden.

deandean

OP beware of 'boundary grabbing' where your neighbour may try to move the boundary line a couple of feet into your garden when the hedge is removed.

If you have no problem with your side of the hedge: tell neighbour he is welcome to erect a fence on HIS side of the hedge, leaving the hedge in situ!

Wabbit Ears

deandean wrote: »

OP beware of 'boundary grabbing' where your neighbour may try to move the boundary line a couple of feet into your garden when the hedge is removed.

If you have no problem with your side of the hedge: tell neighbour he is welcome to erect a fence on HIS side of the hedge, leaving the hedge in situ!

Would that not just be another good reason to take ownership of the project and ensure that, by going halves with the costs , that you are there to ensure the boundaries are properly marked out. If left to the neighbour to do it land grabbing is almost a certainty.

MadDog76

iguana wrote: »

If you don't want the fence, you have no moral or legal obligation to pay for it. Simply tell the new owner of the neighbouring property that as it happens you would prefer the hedge to be left where it is as you like it far more than fencing. But that in the interest of being a good neighbour you will allow him to replace it if that's what he wants. However you will not pay for it as it isn't something that you want.

I bought my house last year and knew that in many places along the boundary the wall/fence would need replacing. I factored that into my budget as if the neighbours have lived with it as it is, it obviously isn't bothering them, so if I wanted to change things, that's my entirely my financial responsibility.

+1 to this ......... I would just add that when the hedge is down and before the fence is to go up that the Op insists on being there to come to an agreement on exactly where the line is drawn between each property.

The neighbour needs the Op's permission to carry out his plans but is not entitled (legally or morally) to any money from the Op.

borderlinemeath

deandean wrote: »

OP beware of 'boundary grabbing' where your neighbour may try to move the boundary line a couple of feet into your garden when the hedge is removed.

The first 3-4 metres of the garden is block build wall running into block built sheds on both sides of our garden, the hedge starts thereafter, I also have another shed at the bottom of the garden that is directly on the boundary as well so unless he tried to crescent shape the fence it would be fairly difficult for him to grab any land as he'd be erecting a fence either through or around my shed.

If you have no problem with your side of the hedge: tell neighbour he is welcome to erect a fence on HIS side of the hedge, leaving the hedge in situ!

That's exactly what we told him to do, trim the hedge right back and erect his own fence and we would continue to maintain the hedge from our side as we've always done.

Firat of all you need to ascertain who owns the fence. This varies from estate to estate. Some of your neighbours might know the position for certain or the management company, iof there is one, might have a historical memory. Sometimes each house owns one fence - either to their left or right: sometimes the fences are jointly owned by the neighbour on each side.
If you decide you own it jointly, and you are happy with the current situation and he is not, you can negotiate. If you really dig your heels in, you can prevent him doing anything and his only option would be to build a shadow fence on his side of the boundary.
If either of you own it 100%, then the options are to that party alone.

Victor

Deleted User wrote: »

Firat of all you need to ascertain who owns the fence.

Pardon the sarcasm.

the_syco

Consider paying some for the fence, so you get to decide what sort of fence? If he removes the hedge himself, and puts down some sh|tty fence, I'm unsure if you can complain.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Consider paying some for the fence, so you get to decide what sort of fence? If he removes the hedge himself, and puts down some sh|tty fence, I'm unsure if you can complain.

Or just tell him you don't want the hedge removed.