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New Party: The Social Democrats.

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Comments

  • #502
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Their choice of new General Secretary is a very wise one.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #503
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Who is that?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #504
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/social-democrats-announce-appointment-of-general-secretary-1.2801755

    Brian Sheehan Head of GLEN, Gay and Lesbian Equality Network

    Very shrewd given his experience of last years campaign

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #505
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Breaking news is that Donnelly is joining FF

    I always knew he was a fraud.


  • #506
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Good match. He'll be more at home there than with Shorthall and Murphy.


  • #507
    ahlookit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭ahlookit


    Probably senses an election in the next few months. Better chance of a ministerial job under FF umbrella ... if he gets elected again...


  • #508
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ahlookit wrote: »
    Probably senses an election in the next few months. Better chance of a ministerial job under FF umbrella ... if he gets elected again...


    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    There's been a lot of backlash locally about this decision.


  • #509
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    If he wants to change country policy this is the best way to do it. He was never going to achieve anything as an independent nationally. So this is his chance.

    I'm not a FF voter, but I like Stephen Donnelly so best of luck to him.


  • #510
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    There's been a lot of backlash locally about this decision.

    The Soc Dems wisely appear to be keeping a diplomatic silence since the news broke, perhaps it'll actually help them nationally, given they'll have greater internal consistency.


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  • #511
    Palmach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Palmach


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    The Soc Dems wisely appear to be keeping a diplomatic silence since the news broke, perhaps it'll actually help them nationally, given they'll have greater internal consistency.

    Sans Donnelly they simply are another left wing party of which this country has too many. It is a crowded field.


  • #512
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Cork County Councillor, Joe Harris, has joined the Soc Dems.

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/douglas-based-councillor-joe-harris-joins-social-democrats/2639367/


  • #513
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    The Soc Dems wisely appear to be keeping a diplomatic silence since the news broke, perhaps it'll actually help them nationally, given they'll have greater internal consistency.

    Their statement when he left was catty and childish enough to say everything - not much left now. Also blocking him from viewing their Twitter "by accident" for a while after.

    Ditto their statement when James Heffernan came to attention where they tried to claim a major funder and election candidate some months earlier wasn't involved for "some time". Silence is about the only thing they can do properly, PR-wise

    I suspect that a substantial volume of their votes outside the other two seats were effectively people voting SD to get Donnelly. And they'll be gone.


  • #514
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    Their statement when he left was catty and childish enough to say everything - not much left now. Also blocking him from viewing their Twitter "by accident" for a while after.

    Ditto their statement when James Heffernan came to attention where they tried to claim a major funder and election candidate some months earlier wasn't involved for "some time". Silence is about the only thing they can do properly, PR-wise

    I suspect that a substantial volume of their votes outside the other two seats were effectively people voting SD to get Donnelly. And they'll be gone.

    Really depends on who they run in Wicklow.


  • #515
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really depends on who they run in Wicklow.

    They aren't going to pick up more than a low few thousand in Wicklow even as a protest against Donnelly. I can't see them getting the magic 2% nationwide when his votes and the people who voted for other candidates thinking it'd get him in power are gone.


  • #516
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really depends on who they run in Wicklow.

    Whitmore. Cant see anyone else. She could do enough damage to Donnelly that he loses his seat.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #517
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Whitmore. Cant see anyone else. She could do enough damage to Donnelly that he loses his seat.

    He's not a great "local politician".

    I sent him and all the other local TDs emails over the years, and I think he replied once. The lowest of all of them.

    I don't know if he'll get back in again. It'll be scraping a last seat I'd imagine.


  • #518
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He's not a great "local politician".

    I sent him and all the other local TDs emails over the years, and I think he replied once. The lowest of all of them.

    I don't know if he'll get back in again. It'll be scraping a last seat I'd imagine.

    Yeah I've heard that alright and I heard a case where someone contacted him and the reply was: here is the councils telephone number. He doesnt really know how to do the local stuff and actually I think he may have felt Whitmores loss as he was losing touch with on the ground. But maybe FF will teach some tricks!! I think he has a lot of his own fans and will certainly pick up ff voters that on balance he probably will keep his seat but if he is arrogant enough to think he is safe he won't. Wicklow voters are fickle. They threw out 92 and 07 poll toppers in 97 and 11.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #519
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it really depends on whether a lot of his voters defect to the new SD candidate. In 2016 the only other candidate to really compete for a seat was Billy Timmins who was a sitting FG TD who had defected to Renua (remember them!). Labour have no real hope of regaining their seat and the Greens were a long way back.

    Unusually Donnelly was never a local politician, and clearly has no desire to be a glorified councillor, fixing potholes and writing letters about medical cards etc.


  • #520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    loyatemu wrote: »
    it really depends on whether a lot of his voters defect to the new SD candidate. In 2016 the only other candidate to really compete for a seat was Billy Timmins who was a sitting FG TD who had defected to Renua (remember them!). Labour have no real hope of regaining their seat and the Greens were a long way back.

    Unusually Donnelly was never a local politician, and clearly has no desire to be a glorified councillor, fixing potholes and writing letters about medical cards etc.

    That worked as a social democrat ploy, but it won't fly if people are voting FF (I'll probably be wrong because there seems to be a lot of quiet FF voters out there, if the polls are to be believed)


  • #521
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    L1011 wrote: »
    Their statement when he left was catty and childish enough to say everything - not much left now.

    Ditto their statement when James Heffernan came to attention where they tried to claim a major funder and election candidate some months earlier wasn't involved for "some time". Silence is about the only thing they can do properly, PR-wise

    this was all discussed at the time, going mostly from memory...

    what statement was childish and catty, Stephen Donnelly missed most of Dail committee meetings and most votes in 2015/2016 and his regional conference, should that go unremarked?

    Election was Feb JH removed from website August after arrest, that's some time.


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  • #522
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    SBP reports that Gary Gannon may be the next to leave and join FF. He's denying it though.

    After losing the chair last week, it'd be rather careless to lose a councillor / candidate also!


  • #523
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    L1011 wrote: »
    SBP reports that Gary Gannon may be the next to leave and join FF. He's denying it though.

    After losing the chair last week, it'd be rather careless to lose a councillor / candidate also!

    I just can't see Gannon going to ff though.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #524
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I just can't see Gannon going to ff though.

    Oh didn't you hear the news? They're all social democrats now. They've ditched the populism that's defined their entire existence.


  • #525
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    Oh didn't you hear the news? They're all social democrats now. They've ditched the populism that's defined their entire existence.

    The SDs are not particularly short on populism either. Not quite FF levels - we've not seen them claim to be centre right one week and left wing the next.


  • #526
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    Oh didn't you hear the news? They're all social democrats now. They've ditched the populism that's defined their entire existence.

    Isn't that the very essence of populist ff? The country is going towards social democracy so FF blows with the populist wind towards it too?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #527
    imme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    If there was an election in the morning they'd be returned with 2 TD's.

    Momentum doesn't seem to be on their side.

    I imagine they'll go the way of the old PD's, the more recent PD's, Clann Na etc etc


  • #528
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    imme wrote: »
    If there was an election in the morning they'd be returned with 2 TD's.

    Momentum doesn't seem to be on their side.

    I imagine they'll go the way of the old PD's, the more recent PD's, Clann Na etc etc

    Who's in Gary Gannon's constituency? He was close last time iirc and he's doing a good job atm.


  • #529
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who's in Gary Gannon's constituency? He was close last time iirc and he's doing a good job atm.

    He was close, but Christie Burke's transfers to Maureen O'Sullivan got her the seat instead of him.

    If there was an election in the morning Mary Lou McDonald would keep her seat and then there'd be another dogfight for the other two seats with at least 4 candidates within sniffing distance of them (more if FF and/or Lab had anyone strong to run).


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