Now Ye're Talking - To A Veterinary Nurse

MrWalsh

Do you ever see situations where someone brings in an animal that is suffering obvious neglect or signs it has been cruelly treated?

Or do you ever get people who are unreasonable in what they want done for their pet?

Diamond Doll

As a (human!) patient, I've sometimes encountered circumstances where nurses clearly disagree with doctors decisions and treatment of patients. However the nurse's opinion is often disregarded (or left unvoiced), despite the fact that they often spend much more time with patients than the doctors do.

Have you ever encountered situations like this as a veterinary nurse, where you don't agree with the vet's opinion or decisions regarding the care of an animal? And if so, and if you spoke up about it, would the vet take your opinions into account?

CardBordWindow

To what degree would you have studied anatomy and physiology of animals in college? Would it have been done on an animal by animal basis? (This week we are looking at dogs, next week at cats etc) Or would there be a lot of in common?

Same way with various ailments, would you have had to cover animal specific symptoms for the certain illnesses, or would it be more general?

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

MrWalsh wrote: »

Do you ever see situations where someone brings in an animal that is suffering obvious neglect or signs it has been cruelly treated?

Or do you ever get people who are unreasonable in what they want done for their pet?

I'm lucky in that I've never seen a case of deliberate cruelty but I have seen a few neglect cases. I've seen a few embedded collars, a lot of really bad cases of matted fur. I do think the matted fur situation is due to a lack of education and understanding that some breeds need to be groomed. People really don't realise that matting can be painful.

What I do see a lot more of is people actually being too kind that it impacts negatively, like feeding their pet too much. Obesity in dogs and cats is a huge problem here and people don't think anything of it. For example I did see a dog that was so obese that it was unable to turn around to lick itself to clean itself and so had very painful sores around the genital area. Poor dog was screeching in pain every time anyone went near its back end. The owner was one of those people that you just could not get through to.

We do see people on the other end of the scale though. I've gotten people getting ignorant and p1ssed off with me because we wouldn't vaccinate a dog for free because it was a rescue dog, I've had people that wanted to walk in and have their dogs neutered on a Saturday despite the fact we were only open til 12. One thing I'll never forget is hearing a message on our answering machine from a man who we had been trying to contact to pick up his dog for about four days. He rang at 9pm on a Sunday wondering why we weren't open so he could collect his dog.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

This little piggy wrote: »

As a (human!) patient, I've sometimes encountered circumstances where nurses clearly disagree with doctors decisions and treatment of patients. However the nurse's opinion is often disregarded (or left unvoiced), despite the fact that they often spend much more time with patients than the doctors do.

Have you ever encountered situations like this as a veterinary nurse, where you don't agree with the vet's opinion or decisions regarding the care of an animal? And if so, and if you spoke up about it, would the vet take your opinions into account?

Great question. I've found myself with the vets I've worked with that they'll generally take the nurse's opinion into account, but when they disagree you sort of have to like it or lump it. I suppose there are nurses out there that have a different experience though.

CardBordWindow wrote: »

To what degree would you have studied anatomy and physiology of animals in college? Would it have been done on an animal by animal basis? (This week we are looking at dogs, next week at cats etc) Or would there be a lot of in common?

Same way with various ailments, would you have had to cover animal specific symptoms for the certain illnesses, or would it be more general?

Another good question. There is a lot in common but while we were studying, differences would have been pointed out, e.g. dogs don't have an appendix, a male cat has little 'barbs' on his penis to stimulate ovulation in the female, the have different numbers and types of teeth, etc. With regard to illnesses, we did dog and cat separately but there is some crossover.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

I'd just like to say I'm really enjoying this, some great questions! Thanks so much everyone. Keep the questions coming!

Vojera

Thanks very much for your answers! I hope you don't mind if I ask some more.

What happens to animals who have to stay in the clinic overnight? I assume they just get locked in a kennel with some food and water?

Have you assisted in or observed any surgeries that you thought were particularly cool?

If you could give one tip to pet owners to improve their pets' lives, what would it be?

MrWalsh

Do you see many people who are too attached to their pets?

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

Vojera wrote: »

Thanks very much for your answers! I hope you don't mind if I ask some more.

No problem at all!

What happens to animals who have to stay in the clinic overnight? I assume they just get locked in a kennel with some food and water?

That depends on the type of clinic. Generally they do get locked in a kennel with food and water and a comfortable bed. Most of the time they sleep anyway. I know some of the bigger clinics do have night staff that stay there too so they can keep an eye on more critical cases.

Have you assisted in or observed any surgeries that you thought were particularly cool?

I've observed a few that I thought were pretty interesting. I've seen a couple of postmortem examinations which I thought were cool.

I've seen one perineal urethrostomy in a tomcat which was interesting. This surgery is used in tomcats with a blocked urethra, which would prevent urination altogether or make it very difficult and/or extremely painful. It's difficult to explain but it's basically surgically creating a new opening so the cat can urinate again.

I've seen a few interesting tumour removals as well. Once observed the removal of a football sized tumour on a dog's spleen. We had a 'Guess the weight of the tumour' competition. I think it was 3.5kg. :eek:

I've also seen a few pinnectomies in white cats which basically means the removal of the tips of their ears because they have skin cancer.

I'll edit later with more if I think of any

If you could give one tip to pet owners to improve their pets' lives, what would it be?

Just one? Gosh. Tough question. If you'd said 10 I'd have no problem coming up with an answer!

Aside from getting pets neutered and vaccinated, I think I'd probably have to say socialisation of dogs and cats is very important. I think it would prevent a lot of behavioural issues later in life.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Do you see many people who are too attached to their pets?

That sort of depends on what your definition of too attached is. But yes, I have. Previously I worked in a clinic that had a boarding kennels and there was one client in particular that would phone us multiple times every day to see if her 'baby' was OK. That's excessive in my opinion.

Drumpot

I have three questions if that's ok . .

First question is I have two house rabbits (for circa 4-5 years). They are big bunnies (not sure what breed), but they have bushy enough fur. My wife has been insisting on moving them out the back garden, to which I have been resisting. I tried to rehome them but to be honest I wasn't convinced that the people interested were going to take proper care of them.

My wife did a cleanup of the kitchen and she put the hutch out the back. It was around the time it was really humid so I said we would see how they are getting on. They appear to be very happy outside. Even in the rain now they look extremely content!

However there are two things that concern me. Are they safe from predators like cats/foxes?. The way our garden is, they could possibly get to the rabbits along the walls. We have two dogs (that's another story) that I would hope would at least keep these predators away, but im not so sure because they dogs would be kept in a different area of the garden (not a big garden but we have them cordoned off).

The second question is how well do rabbits adapt from being indoors to outdoors ? I was advised if I was going to do it, to pick a mild time of year. That said, I am concerned when it gets colder from September on that they might not fair too well!

My third question is basically, what do you think is the best way to deal with barking dogs? Its more of a problem after 10pm. Do you think those dog collars (to prevent them from barking) are bad/humane? Would you recommend people locking their dogs up in kennel at night if they get stressed/angry?

On one side you have a dog that might be knackered if its not confined to its kennel at night because it could spend half the night barking or pacing around. On the other it seems kind of mean to lock them up (but they are better rested).

MrWalsh

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA wrote: »

That sort of depends on what your definition of too attached is. But yes, I have. Previously I worked in a clinic that had a boarding kennels and there was one client in particular that would phone us multiple times every day to see if her 'baby' was OK. That's excessive in my opinion.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of unhealthy attachment, perhaps where a very lonely person had begun to use a pet as a human substitute if you know what I mean?

Would you mention to a person that they need to detach a bit or do you just leave them at it?

I suppose a more general question is this, how much of your job involves treating humans rather than animals!

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

Drumpot wrote: »

I have three questions if that's ok . .

However there are two things that concern me. Are they safe from predators like cats/foxes?. The way our garden is, they could possibly get to the rabbits along the walls. We have two dogs (that's another story) that I would hope would at least keep these predators away, but im not so sure because they dogs would be kept in a different area of the garden (not a big garden but we have them cordoned off).

Their safely depends on the type of hutch that you've got them in which wouldn't be my area of expertise. The dogs being in the garden at all would be a definite deterrent though.

The second question is how well do rabbits adapt from being indoors to outdoors ? I was advised if I was going to do it, to pick a mild time of year. That said, I am concerned when it gets colder from September on that they might not fair too well!

I'm not too sure about this one to be perfectly honest though. I've never had a rabbit myself. You'd need to ring a vet to be completely sure but you could provide warmer bedding in winter if you wish.

My third question is basically, what do you think is the best way to deal with barking dogs? Its more of a problem after 10pm. Do you think those dog collars (to prevent them from barking) are bad/humane? Would you recommend people locking their dogs up in kennel at night if they get stressed/angry?

On one side you have a dog that might be knackered if its not confined to its kennel at night because it could spend half the night barking or pacing around. On the other it seems kind of mean to lock them up (but they are better rested).

Personally I don't really like those collars. They give the dog a small electric shock when they bark which is a bit cruel in my opinion. I think this would be a question that could be better answered by a behaviourist tbh.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

MrWalsh wrote: »

I guess I was thinking along the lines of unhealthy attachment, perhaps where a very lonely person had begun to use a pet as a human substitute if you know what I mean?

Would you mention to a person that they need to detach a bit or do you just leave them at it?

I suppose a more general question is this, how much of your job involves treating humans rather than animals!

I have seen a lot of older pet owners who are very attached to their animals, especially if they live alone but I wouldn't really say that's actually unhealthy. I haven't really seen anyone with an unhealthy attachment to their pet, not yet anyway. I'm not sure if I would say it to the person to be honest, I suppose it would depend on whether it was impacting on the animal or not.

It does involve a lot of treating humans and animals. This definitely wouldn't be a job that would be suitable for someone who doesn't want to work with people. You really need to be at ease talking to people and explaining things to them about their animal. At first I wasn't completely comfortable but I got used to it. If you're not a people person, this wouldn't be a job for you.

5rtytry56

Have you ever been present when the owner has been told that their pet has a terminal illness for the first time? For example a dog with cancer?

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Have you ever been present when the owner has been told that their pet has a terminal illness for the first time? For example a dog with cancer?

Hi 5rtytry56. Thanks for the question. I haven't, that is generally something that the vet does on their own. But I have been present a couple of time when an owner was being showed x-rays of injuries and being told that there was nothing we could do because the injuries were far too severe. One of those in particular I'll never, ever forget because the dog was only a year old and the owner was only about 18. I'll never forget it. His Dad came in a few minutes later because the poor chap was so, so upset. The father was actually equally devastated. There's something awful about seeing a grown man crying.

Drumpot

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Have you ever been present when the owner has been told that their pet has a terminal illness for the first time? For example a dog with cancer?

I know you didn't ask me, but when I was told my first pet needed to be put down a couple of years ago I was inconsolable. I spent thousands (no exaggeration) of euros on a rabbit that had a colon problem from birth. We were always guided by the vet that if its quality of life was poor we would do what they recommended. My rabbit was given 1 year to live and Jinxie lived 6 great years. I remember feeding him with a bottle and massaging his belly to help him. It was such a satisfying experience showing love for a wonderful little creature.


I think people are either pet people or they are not. Some people don't get the love people have towards their pets. I consider it more satisfying spending time with a pet then working hard for material things that don't really amount to much.


When Jinxie had to be put down the vet was extremely empathetic. They actually put him to sleep for free. They said they had never seen such commitment to a pet which is probably the most satisfying praise I have ever received. I have high respect for people who work with animals in this empathetic manner. Far more respect then I do for the stupid shallow things many people respect.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

Drumpot I wish more owners were like you, it's so lovely to read that you put so much time into your little buddy.

I've made owners tea and gotten them biscuits when they've been upset. I just think it's a nice thing to do. And tea solves everything in Ireland as we know.

GLaDOS

Would you have any confidence in applying your knowledge to humans in a first aid situation if nobody else was more qualified?

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Would you have any confidence in applying your knowledge to humans in a first aid situation if nobody else was more qualified?

I did do a First Aid course a couple of years ago but I'd say I'd probably do OK.

Diamond Doll

Is there much of a gender bias in veterinary nursing ... e.g. in your class in college, what was the gender split like?

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

This little piggy wrote: »

Is there much of a gender bias in veterinary nursing ... e.g. in your class in college, what was the gender split like?

Definitely more females, but it is becoming more popular among males. We had 30 girls and 4 guys in first year. Poor lads were definitely outnumbered!

boomerang

What do you think of the attitudes to Irish vets to veterinary nurses? A friend of mine describes the vet scene here as an 'old boys club' and in my experience I'd have to agree. I've had even young vets see me as no more than a scrubber to clean up their mess. Did my work experience in one vet for over 12 months, doing lots of additional hours, only to be offered 8.65ph when I qualified.

Honestly I see the situation in the UK as being a lot better. The nurses I know working there have their CPD and registration costs covered by the practice they work for... More camaraderie and team spirit between vets and nurses as the nurses are given more of the responsibilities they have been trained for, and as the vet team are employees too, there is less of a hierarchy.

I can't believe we have a situation where Irish nurses fought and won the battle to have their annual registration fee kept at €100 - and vet nurses here pay €180 and earn a fraction as much!

I see the IVNA are trying to unionise... I'm hopeful things will change. Your thoughts?

monflat

My cat who's an outdoor cat and not overly friendly had an ulcer on her eye. It's like a big blood spot.
She had her eye removed today.
My husband went mad it will cost me 200 euro.
Is this a reasonable price?

Husband said I should have got her put to sleep!!
I said il give her a chance she's great at keeping away the rats and mice. Let's just hope she stays around for another few yrs. Earn her keep.

I'm collecting her in the morning. Is there a high risk of infection with this procedure?

scudzilla

After a hard day looking after the sick animals i'm sure you like to unwind, maybe sometimes with a piece of cheese, in saying that, What is your favourite type of cheese?

Ave Sodalis

Has anyone ever completely broke down at the loss of their pet?

I have too many questions! So if you answer some and not all that is fine - I will not call you on it I will start with the more boring question first because since I am so boring it is one I am actually interested in But my questions will vary from the inane to the deeply moralistic So bear with me.

First is - are the distinctions between "doctor" "surgeon" "nurse" "consultant" and so forth similar between the animal and human medical industry or is there any stark differences of note? What are the mappings between titles in the two areas like?

Becoming a "human" doctor or surgeon is considered - I suspect - one of the academic heights on can aspire to. But I have often questioned whether vets should be held in higher esteem than that. Because you have to learn the biology and epidemiology and much more of multiple species where "human" doctors only have to do one. Is there ever a mutual animosity or disrespect because of this - with one group feeling above the other socially - but the other knowing they achieve much more academically and intellectually and know the arrogance of the former is unjustified?

Onto a question I do have a real hope you answer though - I have spent a lot of my life doing first aid courses and reading books and getting training on survival medicine and even war time medical procedures. Basically training myself to know EXACTLY how to react in a medical emergency where someone qualified is not around. But is there something similar on offer for those of us who would like to train on how to give "first aid" to animals rather than humans? Do the blue cross offer something similar to the red cross?

I like to hunt my own meat where possible - rather than buy it from farms where the animals might have been treated unethically. So I would much rather capture my own rabbit - feed it and treat it like a king for a month - and then kill it and eat it - rather than go into Tesco and buy a chicken you have no idea how it was ethically treated. Do you have any opinions or knowledge on the techniques, options or morality on killing rabbits or anything else for people like me who obtain their own meat - that I might not know yet? I do strive HARD to be as ethical and informed as I can when I do it.

Have you worked with wolves at all? I currently own one that I sourced in the US from a breeder - and I have invested a STUPID amount of time and energy and resources into giving him an incredibly happy and stimulating life - which I have to admit he has returned in kind manifold. They are a wonderful animal so Id love to hear any experience you have had with them.

Could you - and I hope no one jumps on your replies and tries to debate you or call you on your reply to this so I understand if you do not answer - talk about the parallels you see between human and animal euthanasia that you see and your feelings on them. On one extreme we will shoot a horse for having a sprained ankle - yet on the other we will refuse humans death under the most horrific suffering - do the medical ethics you obtain in your field inform your position on such debates much? Does the fact that you have more options to put a patient "to sleep" contrast in weird ways with the "human" branch of the medical profession?

On a fun note though - do you watch "animal wonders" and "Sci show talk show" on you tube? And is Jessi Knudsen Castañeda not just one of your all time heros because of it? The work she does the animals she works with and her ovious love for every EVERY single one of them - restores my faith in humanity every day.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

Hello boomerang. Going on your questions I'm assuming you're also a VN or you at least work in the industry, so hi!



What do you think of the attitudes to Irish vets to veterinary nurses? A friend of mine describes the vet scene here as an 'old boys club' and in my experience I'd have to agree. I've had even young vets see me as no more than a scrubber to clean up their mess. Did my work experience in one vet for over 12 months, doing lots of additional hours, only to be offered 8.65ph when I qualified.

Yes, I'd have to agree with that too tbh, but to a point. I've worked with about probably about 10 different vets at this point, that's including work placements etc., and I find younger vets have a LOT more respect for us nurses. Older ones, however, tend to part of the 'old boys club' as you said. The wage is pretty low though, considering the amount of work we do, you're completely right there.

Honestly I see the situation in the UK as being a lot better. The nurses I know working there have their CPD and registration costs covered by the practice they work for... More camaraderie and team spirit between vets and nurses as the nurses are given more of the responsibilities they have been trained for, and as the vet team are employees too, there is less of a hierarchy.

I can't believe we have a situation where Irish nurses fought and won the battle to have their annual registration fee kept at €100 - and vet nurses here pay €180 and earn a fraction as much!

I agree, the UK is streets ahead of us here in Ireland. It's very unfair that we have to fork out for CPD and registration, which is bloody expensive as you know, when they have all that covered over in the UK. I'm only going on what I've read on a few vet nursing groups on Facebook and on a couple of forums here but there definitely seems to be a better relationship between vets and nurses in the UK compared to Ireland. I do have to say that in my own experience, there is a great relationship among nurses and also between nurses and receptionists here. I wasn't aware that it's only €100 per year in the UK, that's a massive difference considering they appear to have more responsibilities and earn a lot more.

I see the IVNA are trying to unionise... I'm hopeful things will change. Your thoughts?

I'm hoping things will change and that we will unionise. They also discussed a pay scale at the AGM recently too. Unionising is the first step towards improving conditions for us nurses in my opinion.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

monflat wrote: »

My cat who's an outdoor cat and not overly friendly had an ulcer on her eye. It's like a big blood spot.
She had her eye removed today.
My husband went mad it will cost me 200 euro.
Is this a reasonable price?

Husband said I should have got her put to sleep!!
I said il give her a chance she's great at keeping away the rats and mice. Let's just hope she stays around for another few yrs. Earn her keep.

I'm collecting her in the morning. Is there a high risk of infection with this procedure?

I've actually seen this type of surgery in dogs more so I'm unable to comment on price. If you follow all the instructions that you are given upon discharge you shouldn't have any issues.

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

scudzilla wrote: »

After a hard day looking after the sick animals i'm sure you like to unwind, maybe sometimes with a piece of cheese, in saying that, What is your favourite type of cheese?

Hi scudzilla

I'm not really a cheese person but I would be partial to a bit of cheddar

I'm A Veterinary Nurse, AMA

sup_dude wrote: »

Has anyone ever completely broke down at the loss of their pet?

Yes, definitely, lots of times. More common when the loss is sudden or unexpected. I'd actually have to include myself in that.