Teachers pull yet another stroke

Kermit.de.frog

coolbeans wrote: »

Go on then what do you do that makes you such an invaluable member of society? If you're going to characterise a whole sector of society in the way you have I think it's only fair that you tell us what you do. I'm not a teacher by the way nor do I work in the public sector.

I don't have to do that. The people that pay me are the only people that need to know what I do. I pay teachers, like every other private taxpayer, and thus i'm fully entitled to know who is a teacher. They are not employees of the government, they are employees of private sector taxpayers.


Privatisation, competition and efficiency is what is needed. It's happening already but the best way to drive efficiency and discipline is through wages thus they should all be sacked and rehired on zero hour contracts.

coolbeans

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't have to do that. The people that pay me are the only people that need to know what I do. I pay teachers, like every other private taxpayer, and thus i'm fully entitled to know who is a teacher. They are not employees of the government, they are employees of private sector taxpayers.

Cop out. You basically state that all teacher are takers taking the money you and I earn in taxes. That's an incredibly simplistic attitude and downright insulting. I wanna know what you do because I think you're a hypocrite and your contribution to society is likely to be way overstated by yourself.

And btw, to state that the private sector creates the wealth while the public sector spends it is a gross simplification and shows that you are very biased and incapable of appreciating nuance.

For example, if a teacher does a good job and is the difference between keeping a promising kid on the straight and narrow in the absence of decent parenting how can you say that the teacher has created no wealth? The kid grows up, gets a job and contributes whereas without that teacher's intervention he'd be in jail. It's very hypothetical I know but the teacher has created wealth by guiding the kid and keeping him out of the social welfare net.

Yet you come on here and have the gall to say that all teachers are takers. Bloody cheek you have.

Kermit.de.frog

coolbeans wrote: »

That's an incredibly simplistic attitude and downright insulting.

Simplistic and true - end of story.

Kermit.de.frog

coolbeans wrote: »

Yet you come on here and have the gall to say that all teachers are takers.

They are.

coolbeans

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are.

So bitter, mean spirited and blinded by jealousy you are. I'll show my sister (a teacher) who just got her first full-time job in an educate together place five years after qualifying.
She'll get a laugh when she sees your extremist views on how she is stealing from you. One more question though, what's the bigger part of you, the giver or the judge?

femur61

gaiscioch wrote: »

From that article:

"According to OECD figures, Irish second-level teachers spend 735 hours teaching every year, which is above the average of 709. Despite the perception of short hours, Irish primary teachers spend 915 hours at the chalkface, compared to an OECD average of 790 hours."

So, the long and the short of this seems to be jealously of teachers' holidays, and nothing more.

No, I am not jealous of the long holidays (BTW the UK broke up yesterday for their summer recess). But, I think it is unadulterated greed that people who are paid full time only work part time and then expect to get pay for learning how to do improve their job.

I am from a family of 8 most of us work in the PS, no teachers though, and everyone of us think teachers are overpaid and over talked.

All of us get 4 weeks holidays, can't retire until we are 66 -66. We all work a 39 hour week and we don't do complain, don't threaten strike every chance we get, we get on with it and are grateful what we got. Job for life, good pension and a lump sum. Thats why we joined for these benefits.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

subpar wrote: »

After months of tabling objections to the reform of the Junior Cert and teacher union reps claiming that their objections were all educational based and had nothing to do with money, the real price of their co operation is beginning to emerge.

It emerged today that secondary school teachers will receive between 12 and 13 days training in the next year in order to bring in the changes.

The cost of this " training" is massive. On current estimates there are approx 25,000 second level teachers , assume they each go on 12 days out of classroom training and are backfilled by substitute teachers at a cost of 200 euro per day--- then the cost to the taxpayer is 60 Million Euro

This is not only a financial scandal but yet another example of the" pay for change" attitude which is rife throughout the public service.

Compare this with what goes on in the private sector

---

do office workers get training to work a new software package on their pc ? no they are expected to learn on the job. Do bus drivers receive training to drive a new bus ? no because as professional bus drivers they are rightly expected to adapt to new equipment and changes in their working environment.

Shame on the teachers for exacting a toll on the Dept of Education for the introduction of long overdue reforms and shame on the Dept for caving in to their demands -- another 60 million hit on the exchequer .

You want teachers to learn how to implement a new syllabus while teaching kids? How in the sweet **** are kids supposed to benefti from that??

Do some research before you go on a rant in future. And by research, I mean actually reading beyond the word "teachers" in a news story before logging on to boards.

Alex Meier

femur61 wrote: »

No, I am not jealous of the long holidays (BTW the UK broke up yesterday for their summer recess). But, I think it is unadulterated greed that people who are paid full time only work part time and then expect to get pay for learning how to do improve their job.

They're not getting pay for "learning" how to do their job. Their getting time away from classes to attend conferences to implement syllabus changes that the Department of Education & Skills want to implement.

Teachers in Ireland also work the longest classroom contact hours among OECD countries.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are.

Ah yes, another one who stoppe reading at the word "teachers". Perhaps you'd like to elaborte on this statement? And by 'this statement', I mean the one quoted, not the one where you claimed to be more important thant other people wimply becaue you pay taxes.

(You do know teachers also pay taxes, right?)

femur61 wrote: »

I hope your not a teacher as you don't appear to have read the question properally.

The OP is stating other sectors don't get paid for training days. Workers view them as part of advancement in their position, furthering their career.

Why can't they train in one of their blocks of holidays, 2 weeks Christmas, or two one week mid term breaks, two weeks of at Easter or their three months long summer break. Emm. I suppose it would be really hard to find 12 days in their 16 week holidays they get every year. Or, even in their 22 hours week would be really hard to find forfeit a few extra hours.

Don't tell me you seriously think teachers only do 22 hours a week...?

Also, you can't train a teacher to handle a new syallabus while a teacher is simultaneoulsy teaching a class of students. When I worked in private second and had to do training, it was either during work hours or I got paid for it. Had the suggested I go on on Saturday for free, there would have been words had. I never signed an employment contract that catered for this.

Rightwing

femur61 wrote: »

No, I am not jealous of the long holidays (BTW the UK broke up yesterday for their summer recess). But, I think it is unadulterated greed that people who are paid full time only work part time and then expect to get pay for learning how to do improve their job.

I am from a family of 8 most of us work in the PS, no teachers though, and everyone of us think teachers are overpaid and over talked.

All of us get 4 weeks holidays, can't retire until we are 66 -66. We all work a 39 hour week and we don't do complain, don't threaten strike every chance we get, we get on with it and are grateful what we got. Job for life, good pension and a lump sum. Thats why we joined for these benefits.

Ye must be the working in lowest of the low sector, janitors or something like that?. 4 weeks holiday must surely be unheard of in the PS.

coolbeans

Rightwing wrote: »

Ye must be the working in lowest of the low sector, janitors or something like that?. 4 weeks holiday must surely be unheard of in the PS.

When I worked in the public sector four weeks was the holiday time. Could even be less, three weeks. Not sure what it is now.

On another point I really take issue with this tarring ps workers with the same brush. I saw lots of inefficiencies in my time there but there were also a lot of talented and committed people doing a decent job well worth what they were paid. It's just intellectually lazy and insulting to pretend otherwise and that's why I took issue with Kermit.de.frog and his lazy "they're all takers" approach to his argument. PS needs constant reform but so does regulation of the private sector and to deny either points is disingenuous tripe worthy of the Daily Mail.

Rightwing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Four weeks is the starting entitlement. I think it goes up after a few years - could be wrong. Same as private sector.

If you know different, feel free to correct me.


.

See above. Just as I suspected.

Alex Meier

Rightwing wrote: »

The minimum is 4 weeks off - statutory. So there is something wrong somewhere


This article sheds some light on holiday entitlements, but I'm not sure if Croke Park deals etc have axed a day or two off:

How old is the article?

Vizzy

Rightwing wrote: »

John McGuinness, a junior enterprise minister, has already supported calls for a temporary pay freeze."

Is this the same John McGuinness who is chairman of PAC ?

Cos he hasn't been a junior environment minister since at least 2011.

Rightwing

Alex Meier wrote: »

How old is the article?

Not sure - around Croke Park deal time I believe.

I thought the 'rest days' was PS classic at its best:

On top that, the presumably harder-working superintendent is entitled to 86 rest days, as opposed to a chief superintendent, who gets four rest days for every four weeks he works.

Rest days, chuckle chuckle. What else are they hiding lol

Alex Meier

Rightwing wrote: »

Not sure - around Croke Park deal time I believe.

It's about 5-6 years ago so. . .Any up to date information?

Rightwing

Alex Meier wrote: »

It's about 5-6 years ago so. . .Any up to date information?

I would imagine all we need do is subtract 1 or 2 rest days to arrive at that.

gaiscioch

Rightwing wrote: »

He had no choice on the matter, they are your employer. Just like if our bank has a poor year, bonuses will suffer. I can't complain about that if punters say in the IT industry get bonuses if they have a profitable year.

Rightwing wrote: »

He had no choice on the matter, they are your employer. Just like if our bank has a poor year, bonuses will suffer. I can't complain about that if punters say in the IT industry get bonuses if they have a profitable year.

Kenny had, and has, full choice when it comes to describing both PRD and USC. He persists in claiming that his government has "never raised income taxes". It is offensive to all of us who pay both of these taxes that he denies they are taxes. Taxes on income in this state have been increased massively when these two taxes are included. For that, and having a speech coach who trained him to pronounce words like John Wayne, Kenny is a disingenuous offensive clown.

Moreover, while I would have agreed fully with you regarding the need for cuts back in 2009, the reality between 2009 and 2015 of wage increases for the advisors of the same government which is implementing these cuts, not to mention the creation of the breathtakingly inefficient Irish Water (and promotion of its creator) so that it will benefit Fine Gael businesses and consultants, belie in its entirety the Fine Gael-encouraged notion that we are all in this suffering together. The Fine Gael party has sacrificed efficiency in government to look after their own supporters. That is the outstanding fact of this government. The "we are all suffering equally here" is Fine Gael propaganda of the most preposterous sort - law reform? accountancy reform? (a glance at the evidence showing a large growth in inequality since the start of this recession confirms my anecdotal experience of who is carrying its cutbacks).

gaiscioch

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Simplistic and true - end of story.

Excellent Nobel Prize-winning grasp of economics there. I propose all 350,000 public servants be sacked because they are only a drain on hardworking taxpayers such as yourself. That's just the boost this economy needs. Well done.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rightwing wrote: »

See above. Just as I suspected.

None of it disagrees with what I posted.

purplecow1977

Really, there are others more deserving of the agro!

Mr. Jim Higgins
"Mr Higgins' ministerial pension is €5,952, and his Dail pension is €54,890. This is on top of his MEP salary of €91,984"

Source:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-all-se-mep-rounds-on-critics-of-study-break-26689969.html

That was 5 years ago. There's probably another pension or two added on since!

Rightwing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

None of it disagrees with what I posted.

It simply ridicules your 20 day theory. A nurse starts off with 24 days for instance, rising to 27.

Cleaners, law clerks, clerical officers are the ones with 20. They can feel extremely hard done by when some can get 86 rest days on top of annual leave.

purplecow1977

Rightwing wrote: »

It simply ridicules your 20 day theory. A nurse starts off with 24 days for instance, rising to 27.

Cleaners, law clerks, clerical officers are the ones with 20. They can feel extremely hard done by when some can get 86 rest days on top of annual leave.

Hey even I'll complain when i've to head back at the end of August, and I have what, 182 free days?! Jealous, aren't you?! :cool::cool:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rightwing wrote: »

It simply ridicules your 20 day theory. A nurse starts off with 24 days for instance, rising to 27.

Cleaners, law clerks, clerical officers are the ones with 20. They can feel extremely hard done by when some can get 86 rest days on top of annual leave.

I said 4 weeks was the basic entitlement. Pretty much what you're saying here, bar the nurses. And damn closer that what you suggested below. I never commented on anyone earning 86 days.

Rightwing wrote: »

Ye must be the working in lowest of the low sector, janitors or something like that?. 4 weeks holiday must surely be unheard of in the PS.

Back on topic, though, we're talking about teachers. I've no idea how many days they get (or how many of those that they do get are acgtually spent working) but it's a specialist role. You can't have kids in school 48 weeks of a year simply so teachers have something to do and you can't make up about 10-15 weeks of training for the sake of it (although, that said, I've no idea what their objections are do doing this training outside of term time).

Rightwing

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Hey even I'll complain when i've to head back at the end of August, and I have what, 182 free days?! Jealous, aren't you?! :cool::cool:

I wouldn't like to see you amongst others here marking a simple comprehension.

I'm not jealous of the teachers, I would find it mind-numbing work, and time off is necessary for both teacher and student, it's the likes of the superintendent getting 86 rest days that I find wrong, and as you correctly pointed out, these multiple pensions.

Sheldons Brain

Rightwing wrote: »

It simply ridicules your 20 day theory. A nurse starts off with 24 days for instance, rising to 27.

Cleaners, law clerks, clerical officers are the ones with 20. They can feel extremely hard done by when some can get 86 rest days on top of annual leave.

Graduate jobs generally have longer jobs throughout the economy. Nothing to see here.

purplecow1977

Rightwing wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see you amongst others here marking a simple comprehension.

I'm not jealous of the teachers, I would find it mind-numbing work, and time off is necessary for both teacher and student, it's the likes of the superintendent getting 86 rest days that I find wrong, and as you correctly pointed out, these multiple pensions.

What's wrong with my comprehension marking?!

I just think there are better ways to direct annoyance.

Gumbo

Rightwing wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see you amongst others here marking a simple comprehension.

I'm not jealous of the teachers, I would find it mind-numbing work, and time off is necessary for both teacher and student, it's the likes of the superintendent getting 86 rest days that I find wrong, and as you correctly pointed out, these multiple pensions.

Isint a rest day like a 2 day break from working following 4 twelve hour shifts or something.

They are not like annual leave where you can simply book 14 rest days and head off to Spain. I think you are purposefully misquoting the numbers.

Rightwing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I said 4 weeks was the basic entitlement. Pretty much what you're saying here, bar the nurses. And damn closer that what you suggested below. I never commented on anyone earning 86 days.


.

You said they start on 4 weeks. That was the first red flag.

But drawing up a quick list from that article leads me to believe that anyone on 4 weeks holidays in the PS have got the short straw and a right to feel angry.
garda chiefs and superintendents are entitled to 52 days.
assistant commissioners, get 42 days off a year
hse workers 6 weeks
community welfare officer is entitled to up to 32 days off a year
A chief ambulance officer also gets 31 days off. A staff nurse is entitled to 24 days annual leave, rising to 27 with length of service.
several community welfare superintendents who have up to 40 days off a year.
Principal officers up to secretary general get 31 days a year

that's excluding rest days and the likes. Whoever said they get far too many days off in the PS won this case. Back on topic.
Case closed.

Rightwing

kceire wrote: »

Isint a rest day like a 2 day break from working following 4 twelve hour shifts or something.

They are not like annual leave where you can simply book 14 rest days and head off to Spain. I think you are purposefully misquoting the numbers.

I don't know, but I doubt it, as junior doctors etc would surely be entitled to more than garda officers who are getting 86. Our hospitals would be even more chaotic than they already are.

Geuze

zeffabelli wrote: »

I'm curious, what qualifications are required for primary school teachers? Do they only have bachelors or do they also have masters in childhood education?

Should salaries reflect this?

AFAIK, the allowances for extra quals were abolished for new entrants.

Gumbo

Rightwing wrote: »

I don't know, but I doubt it, as junior doctors etc would surely be entitled to more than garda officers who are getting 86. Our hospitals would be even more chaotic than they already are.

My mate works for a large MNC and he works 4 days on 3 days off in rotation. The days off are not annual leave, they are rest days. He works 7am -7pm and the 7pm-7am on the rotation shift.

So going by that he would have 150 odd rest days per year more actually as the weeks where he does the 3 days on 4 days off would give him extra rest days that week.

nice_guy80

I think you'll find that despite the UK schools being open for longer, that Irish children do better in standardised scores against UK children (OECD Pisa ranking scores) UK - 20th, Ireland 15th.

So maybe the UK need to change their system to the Irish model - more contact teaching time with children and less time spent doing other stuff.
Or is that just being simplistic about it?

I'll admit that there is room for improvement on Ireland's scores, but considering our underfunded education system in terms of infrastructure. provision of educational resources to schools and ongoing teacher training I have to admit that the Irish education system does quite well
(yes, teacher's salaries here are good, but do we want less able graduates going into teaching, as happens in the UK)

aunt aggie

Well after not really paying attention since post one this has gotten off topic a bit and its also a ridiculously depressing read...

It's right to say that any economy spending too much is going to end up in a bad way. Saying teachers and other public servants don't pay taxes is just silly.

What make a small isolated economy like Ireland successful is an educated workforce that brings foreign multinationals and investment into the country. Our entire education system is geared towards producing broadly educated students. A Level students take on average 4 exams, and one of those is sometimes a filler subject, while the majority of Leaving Certs take at least 7 exams.

Many recent changes to syllabuses have been in response to the demands of industry and higher education. Project Maths been the best example, and as a Maths teacher I can tell you that the new syllabus was implemented with very few new resources and patchy in-service training. Teachers as subject experts responded to the change by adapting their resources and strategies. But syllabus changes happen all the time. The proposed new JC will change the framework of the entire exam system. It can't be implemented properly without proper training.

I was disgusted that someone on this forum, felt the need to call teachers leechces. My students have gone onto apprenticeships, PLCs and degrees in science, IT, engineering, ag science and I honestly don't know what else. They are my contribution to the economic recovery. You're very welcome.

purplecow1977

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think you'll find that despite the UK schools being open for longer, that Irish children do better in standardised scores against UK children (OECD Pisa ranking scores) UK - 20th, Ireland 15th.

So maybe the UK need to change their system to the Irish model - more contact teaching time with children and less time spent doing other stuff.
Or is that just being simplistic about it?

It's also important to note that I think UK primary schools only work an extra 12 days. I must admit I always thought it was a good bit longer, but 12 days. And I like to think we produce a similar, if not higher, standard of students in Ireland.

We were once known as the island of Saints and Scholars. I don't think we should forget that.

Rightwing

kceire wrote: »

My mate works for a large MNC and he works 4 days on 3 days off in rotation. The days off are not annual leave, they are rest days. He works 7am -7pm and the 7pm-7am on the rotation shift.

So going by that he would have 150 odd rest days per year more actually as the weeks where he does the 3 days on 4 days off would give him extra rest days that week.

That sounds like a similar situation to a nurse. No one would begrudge them their days off. Not sure if that's what was in the article or not.

Rightwing

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think you'll find that despite the UK schools being open for longer, that Irish children do better in standardised scores against UK children (OECD Pisa ranking scores) UK - 20th, Ireland 15th.

So maybe the UK need to change their system to the Irish model - more contact teaching time with children and less time spent doing other stuff.
Or is that just being simplistic about it?

I'll admit that there is room for improvement on Ireland's scores, but considering our underfunded education system in terms of infrastructure. provision of educational resources to schools and ongoing teacher training I have to admit that the Irish education system does quite well
(yes, teacher's salaries here are good, but do we want less able graduates going into teaching, as happens in the UK)

We should be comparing ourselves to places like Norway/Denmark/NZ/Aus.

UK have a host of problems i.e. large urban centres full of emigrants and what not. We are going that way so I'd expect our standard to fall.

Jjiipp79

Teachers should be paid the same holidays as the rest of the working people. And for the rest of the time they are not teaching they should be made do summer school or camps.

Id love this to be shaken up. So many in it just for the life style..

Or take the English school year and being it in here.

aunt aggie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think you'll find that despite the UK schools being open for longer, that Irish children do better in standardised scores against UK children (OECD Pisa ranking scores) UK - 20th, Ireland 15th.

So maybe the UK need to change their system to the Irish model - more contact teaching time with children and less time spent doing other stuff.
Or is that just being simplistic about it?

Actually Ireland is moving towards the old English model, with introduction of more continuous assessment and short modules.

England deciding this isn't working has removed a lot of continuous assessment from core subjects. They have now decided to move towards the Singapore and Chinese model of teaching - which no one understands or thinks will ever work in English schools. But the Minister of Education thinks its a great idea and funds were made available last year..

We're as bad as each other really, but our kids score higher in maths and literacy. Numbers have dropped in recent years slightly but that's probably due to changes in primary school curriculum ten years ago.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rightwing wrote: »

You said they start on 4 weeks.

True, but this is all I said.

purplecow1977

aunt aggie wrote: »

We're as bad as each other really, but our kids score higher in maths and literacy. Numbers have dropped in recent years slightly but that's probably due to changes in primary school curriculum ten years ago.

Quite possibly.

11 subjects to teach throughout the week - how can they be done properly? I certainly never feel 'they're, I'm done!' at the end of any week!!

Also, the focus was on 'active learning' and god forbid someone mentioning rote learning in the last few years!!! ALTHOUGH I think that's starting to make a come-back as some things just have to be learned and nattered off. Some of the older teachers I work with often comment that they feel books are now 'dumbed down' in comparison to what they used to be.

Sheldons Brain

nice_guy80 wrote: »

(yes, teacher's salaries here are good, but do we want less able graduates going into teaching, as happens in the UK)

Yes, take the least able, put them on zero hour contracts and pay them poorly. This might damage generations of children and ruin economic growth, but it would reduce the Board begrudgery and make some people happy.

jcon1913

nice_guy80 wrote: »

would a company expect its staff to do training during their holidays?

Yes in 20 minute segments or "here watch this tomight" get a bit of cop on. Teachers are well paid. They ought to be more flexible. But theyre not. Thats why all the teacher-bashers are out in force on this thread.

aunt aggie

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Quite possibly.

11 subjects to teach throughout the week - how can they be done properly? I certainly never feel 'they're, I'm done!' at the end of any week!!

No primary school teachers are amazing but the new curriculum was adjusted to allow more time for Maths and English. Standards were dropping because primary teachers were told not to spend as much time on these areas.

Really the issues in education can usually be traced back to policy makers. No matter what country you work in.

They always hop on the newest trend to improve standards they have no recent hands on experience with.

purplecow1977

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Yes, take the least able, put them on zero hour contracts and pay them poorly. This might damage generations of children and ruin economic growth, but it would reduce the Board begrudgery and make some people happy.

I wouldn't wish zero contract hours on ANYONE.
Even toilet cleaners should know their hours in advance & allow them to plan around their working life!
A family member once received a memo in their workplace stating that requests for days off etc wouldn't be tolerated anymore as your "personal life should be worked around your job".

Life is for living people!!!!! Live it!

purplecow1977

aunt aggie wrote: »

No primary school teachers are amazing but the new curriculum was adjusted to allow more time for Maths and English. Standards were dropping because primary teachers were told not to spend as much time on these areas.

Really the issues in education can usually be traced back to policy makers. No matter what country you work in.

Another problem is 50 mins per day allocated for maths and 30 mins per day for religion? (Not that anyone I know spends that time on religion, more like 30 minutes in the week!) but even so. That is the 'demand' made of us. Most days I cover English Irish and Maths. Anything else is a bonus

Wright

So... they're looking for money for training... this money is not going into their pockets... but OP seems to suggest they're rubbing their greedy little hands all the way to Tenerife... time for a thread lock?

purplecow1977

jcon1913 wrote: »

Yes in 20 minute segments or "here watch this tomight" get a bit of cop on. Teachers are well paid. They ought to be more flexible. But theyre not. Thats why all the teacher-bashers are out in force on this thread.

Teachers aren't flexible?! I've heard it all now! Most teachers go above & beyond what they are paid for, take my word for it!

The reason the teacher-bashers are out in force is because it's JULY and they've got itchy feet & the green-eyed monster is making an appearance. By September, the green-eyed monster will have retreated until October, or December

Jjiipp79

Teachers are in it for the life style.. They should get standard holiday like everyone and be made do summer school or camps...

Then see how many will do it!!!

Sheldons Brain

jcon1913 wrote: »

Yes in 20 minute segments or "here watch this tomight" get a bit of cop on. Teachers are well paid. They ought to be more flexible. But theyre not. Thats why all the teacher-bashers are out in force on this thread.

The problem with this and similar threads is the teacher bashers do not focus on flexibility or other reasonable points, but adopt a carpet bombing strategy.