Teachers pull yet another stroke

aunt aggie

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Another problem is 50 mins per day allocated for maths and 30 mins per day for religion? (Not that anyone I know spends that time on religion, more like 30 minutes in the week!) but even so. That is the 'demand' made of us. Most days I cover English Irish and Maths. Anything else is a bonus

Sorry purplecow, I completely missed that you were a primary teacher from reading your last comment. I was told that time allocated to Maths and Religion was almost the same when the new curriculum was first brought in. I don't have the link to hand but it explained a lot.

A lot of teachers at primary level might not have your freedom or confidence to plan independently of recommendations. Inspectors might not approve but secondary school Maths teachers must love you.

purplecow1977

aunt aggie wrote: »

Sorry purplecow, I completely missed that you were a primary teacher from reading your last comment. I was told that time allocated to Maths and Religion was almost the same when the new curriculum was first brought in. I don't have the link to hand but it explained a lot.

A lot of teachers at primary level might not have your freedom or confidence to plan independently of recommendations. Inspectors might not approve but secondary school Maths teachers must love you.

I was lucky this year in that I had 8-10 in my class who really enjoyed Maths

Inspectors may not approve no, but if the inspector was to visit Iof course would teach the allocated times!

Jjiipp79

Hard not to be a teacher basher when 90% can't even do the job or are even
Interested in it.......

In it for a paycheck


Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!

purplecow1977

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Hard not to be a teacher basher when 90% can't even do the job or are even
Interested in it.......

In it for a pay cheque!


Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!

Oh, interesting figures, could you provide a source please?

Rightwing

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Teachers are in it for the life style.. They should get standard holiday like everyone and be made do summer school or camps...

Then see how many will do it!!!

They probably are, but I don't have a problem with this. Everyone knows the terms and conditions associated with it and it's open to all to apply. It's not as if it's a 600 pointer course to get into.

Jjiipp79

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Oh, interesting figures, could you provide a source please?

I take it you're a teacher... Surely you can find any info you need....

Oh wait it's the "summer" you can't do any work....

Wright

"Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!

Sometimes ignorance is right there in your face, making no attempts to disguise itself.

purplecow1977

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

I take it you're a teacher... Surely you can find any info you need....

Oh wait it's the "summer" you can't do any work....

I could, but you came up with the figure so should be obliged to provide the source where you got it from.

Unless the source is "the top of your head" in which case, I could make up any random untrue facts also but that doesn't really contribute much to the discussion does it? :rolleyes:

Jjiipp79

Wright wrote: »

Sometimes ignorance is right there in your face, making no attempts to disguise itself.

Ignorance can often be mistaken for truth!

purplecow1977

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Ignorance can often be mistaken for truth!

So show us the 'truth' then! Go on, I DARE YOU!

Jjiipp79

purplecow1977 wrote: »

So show us the 'truth' then! Go on, I DARE YOU!

Sure what would you do with the truth?

Sit on it till summer is out so u can "work" again!

Mod: Banned for trolling posts.

Wright

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Ignorance can often be mistaken for truth!

Example of this please.

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Teachers are in it for the life style.. They should get standard holiday like everyone and be made do summer school or camps...

Then see how many will do it!!!

How about we dump several hundred little monsters, probably fed up, tired, stressed, hormonal little monsters into your day (which is, at best, minimum wage menial tasks, lets face it). Would you still do it? Pros and cons, my simple minded friend, pros and cons...

purplecow1977

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Sure what would you do with the truth?

Sit on it till summer is out so u can "work" again!

You're probably right. I'm over exerting my brain right now. I need to rest! Thanks for the heads up :cool:

Jjiipp79

Rightwing wrote: »

They probably are, but I don't have a problem with this. Everyone knows the terms and conditions associated with it and it's open to all to apply. It's not as if it's a 600 pointer course to get into.

Wright wrote: »

Example of this please.



How about we dump several hundred little monsters, probably fed up, tired, stressed, hormonal little monsters into your day (which is, at best, minimum wage menial tasks, lets face it). Would you still do it? Pros and cons, my simple minded friend, pros and cons...

Con would be calling them "monsters" ...and prob not the best idea.... But sure it's summer.....schools out..

gaeilgebeo

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Hard not to be a teacher basher when 90% can't even do the job or are even
Interested in it.......

In it for a paycheck


Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!

Thanks for the laugh.

Wright

Jjiipp (...what?) strikes me as someone who underperformed in second level education and is quite bitter about it. It's the teachers fault surely.

I myself was a lazy prick but was inspired by a handful of my teachers, their commitment to us, the interest they took in us, inspired me to eventually follow in their footsteps, although from a more TEFL/arse around the world perspective. Teachers do an arseload of work behind the scenes; lesson planning, grading, making tests, attending boring meetings, worrying about that one kid and wondering how you can help him... sure there are bad teachers out there. But they also have to do most of that. In my experience most teachers are at least capable and know their stuff. But some are really great people.

Jjiipp79

Wright wrote: »

Jjiipp (...what?) strikes me as someone who underperformed in second level education and is quite bitter about it. It's the teachers fault surely.

I myself was a lazy prick but was inspired by a handful of my teachers, their commitment to us, the interest they took in us, inspired me to eventually follow in their footsteps, although from a more TEFL/arse around the world perspective. Teachers do an arseload of work behind the scenes; lesson planning, grading, making tests, attending boring meetings, worrying about that one kid and wondering how you can help him... sure there are bad teachers out there. But they also have to do most of that. In my experience most teachers are at least capable and know their stuff. But some are really great people.

I'll be honest, you could not be more wrong. I had my two degrees at 23, and now I am studying at night to another.

See you need to be inspired by people and I'll just do what has to be done. I hope your degree is not reading people online, you would be f**ked...

And I know exactly what teachers do "behind the scenes" I don't need you to tell me. And tbh it takes them Fuk all time to do it. I know teachers that are out the school door almost before the students. And here is what I think, they do nothing when they get home.

purplecow1977

Sure how do we know you have two degrees? Could be another figure you're plucking from mid air!;-)

Jjiipp79

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Sure how do we know you have two degrees? Could be another figure you're plucking from mid air!;-)

Well this is a fact.. But I assure you I do, really most people have one at least in fairness.

purplecow1977

Not necessarily. But fair play if you have. Teachers must have done something right. Unless you're a self taught genius!!

Jjiipp79

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Not necessarily. But fair play if you have. Teachers must have done something right. Unless you're a self taught genius!!

Again I'll be honest, they were brilliant...

Defo not a self taught.... It was tough tough work..

Jjiipp79

I must state I'm not speaking from my point of view. But that's all I can say on that matter.

Ok I really don't mean most of what I said tbf. Here is what I really think, it's should be a performance based job.. You don't hit the targets or stay at standard, your out the door.

purplecow1977

athtrasna wrote:

Pro-rata for dates occupied. The flat rate is easy to divide right down to the day.

So why such hatred for teachers then?
Do you think they would be as brilliant if they were paid low wages?
And a newly qualified teacher receives 450 a week, which I don't think is extortionate. I suppose my point is if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
I work hard for my salary. I like to think I'm a good teacher and I put in a lot of extra hours. It's awful being refereed to as a leech though. Bad teachers exist, of course they do. Bad workers appear in every profession. But we're not all bad eggs!

Jjiipp79

First, let me apologise. I have pride in my work and as I think you do aswell, so sorry.

If it was somehow performance based it would root out the bad teachers that are happy to let "problem" students slip through the cracks.

aunt aggie

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Here is what I really think, it's should be a performance based job.. You don't hit the targets or stay at standard, your out the door.

If it was performance based, no one would work in disadvantaged schools. That's the harsh truth.

Teacher's work is not actually measurable in examinations when you take into account student's socio-economic background, their native language(s), attendance, Special Educational Needs and the fact that in some schools the same teacher gets Higher Level every year.

For some students, getting a D is a huge achievement because they were in danger of failing for whatever reason. You can't measure that.

Wright

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Ok I really don't mean most of what I said tbf.

Well thanks for wasting all of our time.

What 'standards' do you believe there should be? And how do you expect them to be met when we're forcing our kids to spend precious time on the Irish language, which is of little use to them, and the study of Religion (don't make me laugh, its 2015, how is this a thing still). Make these subjects optional in 2nd level, then we can talk raising performances.

Jjiipp79

Wright wrote: »

Well thanks for wasting all of our time.

What 'standards' do you believe there should be? And how do you expect them to be met when we're forcing our kids to spend precious time on the Irish language, which is of little use to them, and the study of Religion (don't make me laugh, its 2015, how is this a thing still). Make these subjects optional in 2nd level, then we can talk raising performances.

100% religion should not be thought in school, this is the main reason I have my children in a educate together school. As for Irish, maybe it should be optional, if the parents wanted it taught to their kids maybe, but really I don't know.

purplecow1977

Aunt Aggie explains brilliantly why performance related pay would not be a good idea.

I'm unable to think of any appropriate ways if outing the bad teachers.

Plus my definition of bad may not match another's.

But as said, lazy and bad workers exist in all professions.

purplecow1977

I like teaching about different types of religion and having my Muslim students etc share information especially about feasts etc but not just Catholicism. Buddhism is fascinating!!! Children usually think so too!

aunt aggie

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Aunt Aggie explains brilliantly why performance related pay would not be a good idea.

I'm unable to think of any appropriate ways if outing the bad teachers.

Plus my definition of bad may not match another's.

But as said, lazy and bad workers exist in all professions.

I saw performance related pay increases in UK schools. You set your own targets and your manager decides if you met them or not. They are SMART targets so you need proof you've met these targets at the end of the year. Basically box ticking but open to abuse on both sides

Jjiipp79

Purplecow, of course there are lazy and bad workers in every profession, it's just that teaching has much higher repercussions than most professions for bad performance.

Wright

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I like teaching about different types of religion and having my Muslim students etc share information especially about feasts etc but not just Catholicism. Buddhism is fascinating!!! Children usually think so too!

I absolutely agree that the study of the world's religions is fascinating.

Still should be optional.

Jjiipp79

I in no way in hell want my kids to be taught religion or in a school that will teach it.

aunt aggie

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

I in no way in hell want my kids to be taught religion or in a school that will teach it.

Kids in Educate Together schools are taught about the main world religions and atheism. It should never be optional as Wright suggested. If we're going to have a multi cultural society, children need to be understanding of different people's beliefs.

It is however completely different to the religious instruction most of us received in primary school.

Wright

aunt aggie wrote: »

It should never be optional as Wright suggested. If we're going to have a multi cultural society, children need to be understanding of different people's beliefs.

One does not guarantee the other. Legions of biggots and racists and xenophobes out there on the street dear; they also sat through mandatory classes. They still rant about the English/Eastern Europeans/whoever is the flavour of the month.

What you're describing is more a parent's job anyhow. In my experience Religion was a doss class and nowt got done. Anecdotal as that is. Society is not going to collapse if Religion was an option. Sure we already have CSPE.

aunt aggie

Dear???

I'm sorry but how did you come to the conclusion that I'm a little old lady who needs a pat on the head?

If you don't want your kids to study world religions, you're going to have to home school them or move to China.

Wright

aunt aggie wrote: »

Dear???

I'm sorry but how did you come to the conclusion that I'm a little old lady who needs a pat on the head?

If you don't want you're kids to study world religions, you're going to have to home school them or move to China.

Or make it optional.

I particularly like how you skipped over my point about Irish people not being angels despite having mandatory Religion classes in school...

robp

Wright wrote: »

Or make it optional.

I particularly like how you skipped over my point about Irish people not being angels despite having mandatory Religion classes in school...

Religious instruction already is optional. No one is forced to seed their kids to a specific type and in every school opt out is possible. Its outlandish to claim it has no effect without semblance of a controlled experiment.

johnnyskeleton

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

Purplecow, of course there are lazy and bad workers in every profession, it's just that teaching has much higher repercussions than most professions for bad performance.

Mod: that may well be your genuine belief, but this forum requires debate on a more objective basis. If you continue to post in this inflammatory style without any rational analysis that other posters can debate you will be banned

nice_guy80

Wright wrote: »

I absolutely agree that the study of the world's religions is fascinating.

Still should be optional.

totally agree
education about various faiths is very important.

however, specific faith formation should be done by the various churches either after school or on sundays in a bible school setting
then you would see the parents who really commit to the catholic or church of ireland etc faith

gaiscioch

Wright wrote: »

Legions of biggots and racists and xenophobes out there on the street dear

And who, pray tell, can we blame for the legions of male chauvinists and their patronising sexism from another age?

Eric Cartman

gaiscioch wrote: »

And who, pray tell, can we blame for the legions of male chauvinists and their patronising sexism from another age?

womens oppression in first world countries isnt an issue anymore
this isnt sexism
that post was reactionary nonsense




i think the biggest changes we need to make in education in Ireland are a complete separation of church and state in education and a complete redraw of the curriculum encouraging more independent thinking and a heavier focus on getting students interested in STEM subjects.

this business of the teachers always demanding more more more in cash, backed up by the unions is the single biggest obstacle to educational reform here.

purplecow1977

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this business of the teachers always demanding more more more in cash, backed up by the unions is the single biggest obstacle to educational reform here.

If extra tasks & responsibilities are laden on to teachers, why shouldn't they demand more money?

A family member works in the hospitality industry.
A co-worker with a managerial responsibility (& wage!) is leaving and not being replaced.
Family member will be taking on these responsibilities so is requesting more money. If she does not get it, she will not be completing the tasks.

I don't think any worker in any industry would or should accept changes to their working conditions which demands more of their time, energy & expertise for free. It is the job of the unions to look for the best conditions for their workers. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Wright

gaiscioch wrote: »

And who, pray tell, can we blame for the legions of male chauvinists and their patronising sexism from another age?

I'm a guy and I've been called 'dear' more times than I can recall, do you have a point? 'Dear' is not limited to a single gender, what are you bringing up chauvinism and sexism for?

aunt aggie

Wright wrote: »

I'm a guy and I've been called 'dear' more times than I can recall, do you have a point? 'Dear' is not limited to a single gender, what are you bringing up chauvinism and sexism for?

No but it can be used to belittle a woman making a legitimate point because you don't like it.

My point was that religious education is important for the world your kids are growing up in. And from your posts its obvious that you have no idea what religious education looks like today.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

This thread has gone way off topic and I cant see anything even vaguely economy related being discussed any more.

If anyone wants to suggest reasons for the thread to be reopened please PM me or another thread and we can look at it tomorrow.

Otherwise, thread closed.

K-9

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod note:

This thread has gone way off topic and I cant see anything even vaguely economy related being discussed any more.

If anyone wants to suggest reasons for the thread to be reopened please PM me or another thread and we can look at it tomorrow.

Otherwise, thread closed.

Mod:

Just a heads up on this, went through the thread yesterday morning but with Donegal losing and all, didn't get a chance to post.

This thread slipped through the cracks a bit and apologies for that. Might have been missed because it is further back in the thread but Kermit.de.frog was banned for, well, being a Muppet!

It is not acceptable, and never will be, to come on this forum and call public servants leeches.

Again sorry for not nipping this in the bud. If somebody is posting inflamatory and controversial stuff, basically looking for a reaction, please don't give them what they want. I had to delete loads of posts like that, so ye are wasting your time. Plus its a pleasure logging in to see no reaction, less work for us!

Jjiipp also got banned.