Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

hinault

Peregrinus wrote: »

The blood donor isn't paid, but the blood transfusion service sells the blood to hospitals. How else do you think they fund their operation?

Incorrect.
Re-read the statement that was made earlier.

The assertion made was that money is exchanged when I donated blood.

Money also exchanged hands when you donate blood

No money is exchanged when I make a blood donation.

Peregrinus

The accountants usually distinguish between surplus, the excess of receipts over spending, and profit, the material benefit derived from ownership of the enterprise.

And the concept of "non-profit" invokes the latter sense. A non-profit is not required to trade at a loss, or on a break-even basis. They can make as much surplus as they like, but they cannot distribute it to investors/owners/founders, so it will never be profit in the technical sense. The just use it to grow the enterprise. That's how outfits like the Wellcome Trust and the Church Commissioners for England get to such large sizes, starting sometimes from quite small endowments.

Delirium

hinault wrote: »

Incorrect.
Re-read the statement that was made earlier.

The assertion made was that money is exchanged when I donated blood.

No money is exchanged when I make a blood donation.

I don't think Overheal meant you specifically. I mean how would he know you have donated blood for a start?

I read it as 'a person' rather than 'hinault'.

Timberrrrrrrr

Many countries pay donors for blood.

Overheal

hinault wrote: »

Nope.

Not in this country.

We're talking about the United States firstly; and you think there are no storage, transportation or indeed extraction costs to donating blood? Who foots the bill?

Delirium

Bobby Jindal Cuts Off Medicaid Funding to Planned Parenthoods In Louisiana

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) announced he had ended the state's Medicaid contract with Planned Parenthood in response to an anti-abortion "sting" video campaign against the reproductive health service.



“In recent weeks, it has been shocking to see reports of the alleged activities taking place at Planned Parenthood facilities across the country. Planned Parenthood does not represent the values of the people of Louisiana and shows a fundamental disrespect for human life," Jindal said in a statement. "It has become clear that this is not an organization that is worthy of receiving public assistance from the state."


The move comes despite the fact that the two Planned Parenthood clinics in Louisiana do not provide abortion, which Planned Parenthood confirmed to the state's Department of Health and Hospitals as part of the state's ongoing investigation into claims that the organization is profiting off of aborted fetal tissue donations. A third clinic being built in New Orleans plans to offer abortion, but will not participate in the tissue donation programs, a Planned Parenthood executive told the state.

So the clinics are defunded even though they don't even perform abortions? That's bad enough but there hasn't been any evidence from the investigations of any illegal tissue sales. Very disappointing.

robdonn

Delirium wrote: »

Bobby Jindal Cuts Off Medicaid Funding to Planned Parenthoods In Louisiana




So the clinics are defunded even though they don't even perform abortions? That's bad enough but there hasn't been any evidence from the investigations of any illegal tissue sales. Very disappointing.

It's the mentality of "I always knew they were evil!" They don't need actual evidence, they are just latching on to any accusation that seems to confirm their existing beliefs.

As for Bobby Jindal, it doesn't matter if he believes it or not as long as enough potential voters do.

hinault

Peregrinus wrote: »

The accountants usually distinguish between surplus, the excess of receipts over spending, and profit, the material benefit derived from ownership of the enterprise.

And the concept of "non-profit" invokes the latter sense. A non-profit is not required to trade at a loss, or on a break-even basis. They can make as much surplus as they like, but they cannot distribute it to investors/owners/founders, so it will never be profit in the technical sense. The just use it to grow the enterprise. That's how outfits like the Wellcome Trust and the Church Commissioners for England get to such large sizes, starting sometimes from quite small endowments.

Profit in the technical sense

Planned Parenthood's own financial statement show that it earned a net profit for that financial year.
Their own disclosures gives their game away.

Whether the profit is distributed as a dividend or reinvested as part of retained earnings/capital, doesn't obviate the fact that profits were generated by these butchers.

There are only two ways in which net assets increase in value between the beginning of the year and the end of the year.

Either a profit is earned for the year and the profit is reinvested by way of retained earnings.
Or a shareholder invests more capital in the business, allowing the company to acquire more assets.

The give away in Planned Parenthood's case is that the increase in it's net assets is the exact different between it's disclosed net earnings and it's disclosed net expenditure. This is called profit.

hinault

Overheal wrote: »

We're talking about the United States

No. You are talking about the United States.

Kev W

hinault wrote: »

No. You are talking about the United States.

To be fair, the entire thread is about Planned Parenthood in the US. Read the first post.

Kev W

hinault wrote: »

Profit in the technical sense

Planned Parenthood's own financial statement show that it earned a net profit for that financial year.
Their own disclosures gives their game away.

Whether the profit is distributed as a dividend or reinvested as part of retained earnings/capital, doesn't obviate the fact that profits were generated by these butchers.

There are only two ways in which net assets increase in value between the beginning of the year and the end of the year.

Either a profit is earned for the year and the profit is reinvested by way of retained earnings.
Or a shareholder invests more capital in the business, allowing the company to acquire more assets.

The give away in Planned Parenthood's case is that the increase in it's net assets is the exact different between it's disclosed net earnings and it's disclosed net expenditure. This is called profit.

Yes, they made a profit, as any organisation that performs it's purpose well will do. What exactly is your point?

Not a NSA agent

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Many countries pay donors for blood.

Think you can get paid for quite a few body fluids in the U.S. I would assume it's what they do there that would matter unless PP are working in Ireland.

At least if it was in Ireland they could get away with it. The state would even pay the damages for them.

Jayop

I wonder would the hard working butchers appreciate using their title in a disparaging sense?

Overheal

hinault wrote: »

Profit in the technical sense

Planned Parenthood's own financial statement show that it earned a net profit for that financial year.
Their own disclosures gives their game away.

Oh in that case no controversy no investigations lets call it a day :rolleyes: surely with the evidence *right there* that PP is making a "profit", it will only be a matter of moments before congress defunds them! Lets watch O_O




...........aaaaaany minute now...

Oh wait, because their financial statements aren't actually evidence of any wrongdoing. This might take a while.

In the meantime, here is brain food:

Planned Parenthood is not selling parts, you <snip> idiot ed: NSFW; some swearing

Snopes weighs in somewhat (news article, not a true/false)

http://m.snopes.com/fetal-tissue-sales/

edit: OMG even though I was being ironic, the Senate DID actually just have a vote on this. Unsurprisingly, they did not vote to defund Planned Parenthood. Sorry!

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/politics/senate-planned-parenthood-defunding-legislation/

On the bright side, those butchers who don't conduct any abortions in all 2 of Louisiana's PP facilities are losing their state medicare funding thanks to Gov. Jindal.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jindal-louisiana-planned-parenthood-medicaid

Speaking on the decision, Jindal declared his reasoning for the action to be "reports of the alleged activities taking place at Planned Parenthood facilities across the country." [emphasis mine] Guilty until proven innocent I guess. In other news, Jindal loses the women vote - and still trails far behind Donald Trump in the presidential election circuit. The humanity.

Two Sheds

Another Video released -

In the latest video, the fifth released by Irvine, California-based Center for Medical Progress, an official from Planned Parenthood discusses the procurement and cost of intact fetuses. The video, we should warn you, is graphic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/08/planned-parenthood-video/400472/

"If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget"

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/04/planned-parenthood-official-docs-alter-abortion-procedures-price-structure/

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

Another Video released -

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/08/planned-parenthood-video/400472/


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/04/planned-parenthood-official-docs-alter-abortion-procedures-price-structure/

Have you watched the video? You keep posting these as if they have any new information. Apart from the shock value of the last few minutes, this is exactly the same as the others and adds no additional information.

Still not evidence.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

Have you watched the video? You keep posting these as if they have any new information. Apart from the shock value of the last few minutes, this is exactly the same as the others and adds no additional information.

Still not evidence.

The videos are in perfect keeping with the thread.

The noose is tightening on Planned Parenthood. I believe it's going to be a slam-dunk before much longer.

Overheal

Please.

If it was a slam dunk, the activist group behind the videos wouldn't be dispensing the evidence in this protracted piecemeal fashion; they would have dumped the videos they had for all to see.

The actual motive for the piecemeal "leaks" of videos is to keep planned parenthood in the news in a negative light; new releases are timed with the story losing its momentum or being swept up by other news (Malaysian airlines wreckage for instance). Keep dragging it out long enough for the radio hosts and the evening talk shows to spin their take on it and keep the alleged charges in people's minds. These same tactics were famously used to get the American people to believe that as a matter of fact Iraq had chemical weapons of mass destruction. Tell a lie enough times until it becomes truth.

Delirium

Two Sheds wrote: »

The videos are in perfect keeping with the thread.

The noose is tightening on Planned Parenthood. I believe it's going to be a slam-dunk before much longer.

yeah, because that'd be a good thing :rolleyes:

MrPudding

Delirium wrote: »

yeah, because that'd be a good thing :rolleyes:

You need to remember that some of the posters here would also have an objection to the supply of contraception. Basically they just have a problem with women in general having any control over their reproductive functions.

MrP

robdonn

MrPudding wrote: »

Basically they just have a problem with women in general having any control over their reproductive functions.

MrP

I don't think that we can really make that assertion. It is more likely that they believe in the autonomy of women but it conflicts on certain issues such as conception, pregnancy and abortion. The conflict is resolved by giving the foetus, as seen by them as being alive and defenceless, the priority, thus negating women's autonomy whenever they overlap.

I think one of the biggest problems with these discussions is the attempt to vilify the opposing side, whether it is pro-lifers as being misogynistic and anti-women, or pro-choicers as being pro-abortion and pro-baby-killing.

It's an exaggerated view on what's really happening and, although possibly true in rare cases, it is not the actual feelings of most people on either side. For every argument that a pro-choice advocate makes about a woman's right to autonomy being denied, a pro-life advocate will see (what they believe to be) a baby's life being denied. I don't think it's fair to assume that a pro-lifer is just out to subjugate women.

volchitsa

robdonn wrote: »

I don't think that we can really make that assertion. It is more likely that they believe in the autonomy of women but it conflicts on certain issues such as conception, pregnancy and abortion. The conflict is resolved by giving the foetus, as seen by them as being alive and defenceless, the priority, thus negating women's autonomy whenever they overlap.

I think one of the biggest problems with these discussions is the attempt to vilify the opposing side, whether it is pro-lifers as being misogynistic and anti-women, or pro-choicers as being pro-abortion and pro-baby-killing.

It's an exaggerated view on what's really happening and, although possibly true in rare cases, it is not the actual feelings of most people on either side. For every argument that a pro-choice advocate makes about a woman's right to autonomy being denied, a pro-life advocate will see (what they believe to be) a baby's life being denied. I don't think it's fair to assume that a pro-lifer is just out to subjugate women.

I agree that the vast majority of them don't consciously wish to do any such thing, they are merely channeling the propaganda they have received since childhood. In rather the same way as women in cultures where FGM is practiced genuinely think they are acting in a girl's best interests when they have her mutilated. The lack of understanding of where their own beliefs and actions derive from doesn't make these any less misogynistic in nature. It just shows how powerful a tool religion can be.

lazybones32

Overheal wrote: »

Please.

If it was a slam dunk, the activist group behind the videos wouldn't be dispensing the evidence in this protracted piecemeal fashion; they would have dumped the videos they had for all to see.

The actual motive for the piecemeal "leaks" of videos is to keep planned parenthood in the news in a negative light; new releases are timed with the story losing its momentum or being swept up by other news (Malaysian airlines wreckage for instance). Keep dragging it out long enough for the radio hosts and the evening talk shows to spin their take on it and keep the alleged charges in people's minds. These same tactics were famously used to get the American people to believe that as a matter of fact Iraq had chemical weapons of mass destruction. Tell a lie enough times until it becomes truth.

I was thinking along similar lines when this story first broke: why not present the most damning evidence first?
This was a 3 year operation. It could well be that they have more material available but are waiting to see how PP respond. Giving them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak.
When you fight, you don't attack the strongest points; you box clever. Seeing as PP have enlisted the services of a D.C. based PR 'crisis management' agency, the people behind this operation must also have a strategy prepared.

I'd expect a trump card to be played yet.

Two Sheds

volchitsa wrote: »

I agree that the vast majority of them don't consciously wish to do any such thing, they are merely channeling the propaganda they have received since childhood. In rather the same way as women in cultures where FGM is practiced genuinely think they are acting in a girl's best interests when they have her mutilated. The lack of understanding of where their own beliefs and actions derive from doesn't make these any less misogynistic in nature. It just shows how powerful a tool religion can be.

Because abortion is good for women, right?

Black Menorca

Absolutely disgusting.

America owes these Pro-Life advocates a huge debt of gratitude.

The morally defunct, seemingly female run, Planned Parenthood organisation has been rumbled big time.

Now for the de-funding process.

Funny how RTE, the Irish Times, Newstalk and Today FM have been so quiet about this story.

Planned Parenthood have given the Irish Pro-Life organisations so much ammunition to defend any future attack on the 8th.
this will set back the abortion lobby decades in this country.

robdonn

Black Menorca wrote: »

Absolutely disgusting.

America owes these Pro-Life advocates a huge debt of gratitude.

The morally defunct, seemingly female run, Planned Parenthood organisation has been rumbled big time.

Now for the de-funding process.

Funny how RTE, the Irish Times, Newstalk and Today FM have been so quiet about this story.

Planned Parenthood have given the Irish Pro-Life organisations so much ammunition to defend any future attack on the 8th.
this will set back the abortion lobby decades in this country.

May I suggest that you actually watch the videos first and then explain what exactly has Planned Parenthood admitted to that is illegal.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

Because abortion is good for women, right?

"Abortion is great!" said nobody ever.

eviltwin

Two Sheds wrote: »

Because abortion is good for women, right?

Ah the old abortion regret video. There are plenty of women who have no regrets at all about having an abortion. What's your point?

Jayop

eviltwin wrote: »

Ah the old abortion regret video. There are plenty of women who have no regrets at all about having an abortion. What's your point?

What about the families of woman who died because they weren't allowed an abortion. Do they have regrets?

PopePalpatine

eviltwin wrote: »

Ah the old abortion regret video. There are plenty of women who have no regrets at all about having an abortion. What's your point?

Slut-shaming, what else?