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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #362
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Jayop wrote: »
    What about the families of woman who died because they weren't allowed an abortion. Do they have regrets?

    Not sure why you're asking me that, I'm pro choice


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    #363
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Jayop wrote: »
    What about the families of woman who died because they weren't allowed an abortion. Do they have regrets?

    In Catholic State they're not allowed to have any regrets except if the foetus didn't survive.


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    #364
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Not sure why you're asking me that, I'm pro choice

    I know, I was confirming your point.


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    #365
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    robdonn wrote: »
    I don't think that we can really make that assertion. It is more likely that they believe in the autonomy of women but it conflicts on certain issues such as conception, pregnancy and abortion. The conflict is resolved by giving the foetus, as seen by them as being alive and defenceless, the priority, thus negating women's autonomy whenever they overlap.

    I think one of the biggest problems with these discussions is the attempt to vilify the opposing side, whether it is pro-lifers as being misogynistic and anti-women, or pro-choicers as being pro-abortion and pro-baby-killing.

    It's an exaggerated view on what's really happening and, although possibly true in rare cases, it is not the actual feelings of most people on either side. For every argument that a pro-choice advocate makes about a woman's right to autonomy being denied, a pro-life advocate will see (what they believe to be) a baby's life being denied. I don't think it's fair to assume that a pro-lifer is just out to subjugate women.
    It's much easier to have a degree of respect for the opposing position when the truth is told. The pro-abortion lobby does not want the truth to be told, especially to women.
    That's why our media never inform the public about the reality of abortion; we see every sort of surgery on our screens but never abortion. It's the reason RTE and Newstalk regularly give free rein to those pushing for abortion

    Just as the Irish media refused to cover the Gosnell story, they are now refusing to cover the Planned Parenthood story. Why? Because information is the enemy of the pro-abortion cause. Women must be kept in ignorance if the abortion industry and its fat cats are not to be undermined.


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    #366
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    It's much easier to have a degree of respect for the opposing position when the truth is told. The pro-abortion lobby does not want the truth to be told, especially to women.
    That's why our media never informs the public about the reality of abortion; we see every sort of surgery on our screens but never abortion.

    Just as the Irish media refused to cover the Gosnell story, it is now refusing to cover the Planned Parenthood story. Why? Because information is the enemy of the pro-abortion cause. Women must be kept in ignorance if the abortion industry and its fat cats are not to be undermined.

    Speaking as someone who has had an abortion there is no hiding of anything. Every part of the procedure was explained to me, I was able to ask questions, I could have left at any stage. In comparison when I had my children here I was often made to feel invisible by the healthcare system, something that is not just restricted to maternity btw. I don't know where your notion that there is no information passed to patients comes from, it's complete rubbish.


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    #367
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Slut-shaming, what else?
    What a crass thing to say. Do you have any women in your life?


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    #368
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    What a crass thing to say. Do you have any women in your life?

    What point were you trying to make with that video then?


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    #369
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    It's much easier to have a degree of respect for the opposing position when the truth is told. The pro-abortion lobby does not want the truth to be told, especially to women.
    That's why our media never inform the public about the reality of abortion; we see every sort of surgery on our screens but never abortion. It's the reason RTE and Newstalk regularly give free rein to those pushing for abortion

    Just as the Irish media refused to cover the Gosnell story, they are now refusing to cover the Planned Parenthood story. Why? Because information is the enemy of the pro-abortion cause. Women must be kept in ignorance if the abortion industry and its fat cats are not to be undermined.

    Why should we be bothered with stories about abortion in America. Sure it isn't happening here. Is that not what we want? Ship women off to the UK and we are all happy back here in our sanctimonious little island.
    Adopt the ostrich position.


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    #370
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    It's much easier to have a degree of respect for the opposing position when the truth is told. The pro-abortion lobby does not want the truth to be told, especially to women.
    That's why our media never informs the public about the reality of abortion; we see every sort of surgery on our screens but never abortion. It's the reason RTE and Newstalk regularly give free rein to those pushing for abortion

    Just as the Irish media refused to cover the Gosnell story, they are now refusing to cover the Planned Parenthood story. Why? Because information is the enemy of the pro-abortion cause. Women must be kept in ignorance if the abortion industry and its fat cats are not to be undermined.

    I think you may have missed my point with the whole vilification thing...

    But what is the truth? So far there have been accusations but no evidence has been provided to support it. And I know, you've posted videos several times, but we have pointed out time and time again that they do not actually show any evidence of breaking the law.

    And our media doesn't cover abortion stories? Here are 683 stories from RTE alone on abortion. Your complaint is that they don't report the nonsense that you insist is real.

    Oh, and here is RTE's coverage of the trial of Kermit Gosnell.


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    #371
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Speaking as someone who has had an abortion there is no hiding of anything. Every part of the procedure was explained to me, I was able to ask questions, I could have left at any stage. In comparison when I had my children here I was often made to feel invisible by the healthcare system, something that is not just restricted to maternity btw. I don't know where your notion that there is no information passed to patients comes from, it's complete rubbish.
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?


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    #372
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?

    I was informed over the telephone when I made the appointment long before I became a patient. I also have the capacity to use the internet. Stop implying women are stupid.


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    #373
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?

    I am not aware of many people who have watched surgical procedures before undergoing same.


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    #374
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?

    Yeah, and we could force them to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound and listen to the heartbeat first too, right?


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    #375
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?

    I got a vasectomy done and I didn't watch any videos of one being performed on others before that. Why would I when I'm not the surgeon.


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    #376
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,330 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be better if women were informed before they became patients? How many people have ever watched an abortion being performed or seen what an abortion does to an unborn child? Would that be too much information for women?

    In secondary school (yes, in Ireland) we were shown plenty of video footage that would make you proud as we got to see little chunks of fetus collected in a surgical tray, etc. so I'm not sure what your point is, as the information is not only widely available, but is thrown in your face on occasion. Again you've established an arguing point which is readily debunkable.


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    #377
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    robdonn wrote: »
    I think you may have missed my point with the whole vilification thing...

    But what is the truth? So far there have been accusations but no evidence has been provided to support it. And I know, you've posted videos several times, but we have pointed out time and time again that they do not actually show any evidence of breaking the law.

    And our media doesn't cover abortion stories? Here are 683 stories from RTE alone on abortion. Your complaint is that they don't report the nonsense that you insist is real.

    Oh, and here is RTE's coverage of the trial of Kermit Gosnell.
    Have you even bothered to check RTE's coverage of abortion? It doesn't attempt to inform people about abortion. It cover the politics of abortion. RTE is a public relations machine for the pro-abortion lobby.
    Only yesterday we heard RTE Radio give an unchallenged opportunity to a FG politician to promote her campaign for abortion on demand.

    RTE covered the Gosnell case very late in the day, when it could no longer be ignored, and only after a raft of complaints about its censorship of the story.


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    #378
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    robdonn wrote: »
    May I suggest that you actually watch the videos first and then explain what exactly has Planned Parenthood admitted to that is illegal.

    Illegal is your word.

    Immoral is mine. Engineering a partial birth abortion to get an 'intact sample'.
    Sick, just sick.


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    #379
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Have you even bothered to check RTE's coverage of abortion? It doesn't attempt to inform people about abortion. It cover the politics of abortion. RTE is a public relations machine for the pro-abortion lobby.
    Only yesterday we heard RTE Radio give an unchallenged opportunity to a FG politician to promote her campaign for abortion on demand.

    RTE covered the Gosnell case very late in the day, when it could no longer be ignored, and only after a raft of complaints about its censorship of the story.

    Why is it the responsibility of the media to inform the people about how medical procedures happen. That's the job of the medical profession and seeing as abortion isn't available here who takes on that responsibility? Even when you have programs about medicine it's usually entertainment rather than education.


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    #380
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    Overheal wrote: »
    In secondary school (yes, in Ireland) we were shown plenty of video footage that would make you proud as we got to see little chunks of fetus collected in a surgical tray, etc. so I'm not sure what your point is, as the information is not only widely available, but is thrown in your face on occasion. Again you've established an arguing point which is readily debunkable.
    Please point out where any of our media has relayed the facts about the practise of abortion to the public. We're in the throes of a campaign to legalise abortion-on-demand but nobody wants to say what it is we're supposed to legalise. Can you spot what might be wrong with that?


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    #381
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    galljga1 wrote: »
    I am not aware of many people who have watched surgical procedures before undergoing same.

    I wouldnt recommend it from experience. Of course it would be stupid to suggest we ban eye surgeries because I felt uncomfortable watching one.
    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Please point out where any of our media has relayed the facts about the practise of abortion to the public. We're in the throes of a campaign to legalise abortion-on-demand but nobody wants to say what it is we're supposed to legalise. Can you spot what might be wrong with that?

    Why would they? They havent done much on cancer treatments or other medical things either because it isnt news.


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    #382
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why is it the responsibility of the media to inform the people about how medical procedures happen. That's the job of the medical profession and seeing as abortion isn't available here who takes on that responsibility? Even when you have programs about medicine it's usually entertainment rather than education.
    I'll just leave that there.


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    #383
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Illegal is your word.

    Immoral is mine. Engineering a partial birth abortion to get an 'intact sample'.
    Sick, just sick.

    A partial birth abortion? Oh, that's horrible. That should be illegal!

    Oh wait, it is illegal, and nobody has shown any evidence that they do it. The videos in question certainly don't.


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    #384
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Please point out where any of our media has relayed the facts about the practise of abortion to the public. We're in the throes of a campaign to legalise abortion-on-demand but nobody wants to say what it is we're supposed to legalise. Can you spot what might be wrong with that?

    You're being ridiculous now, we see many changes to medical practice here, we don't need to know the ins and outs.


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    #385
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    I'll just leave

    Quote mining (also contextomy) is the fallacious tactic of taking quotes out of context in order to make them seemingly agree with the quote miner's viewpoint or to make the comments of an opponent seem more extreme or hold positions they don't in order to make their positions easier to refute or demonize.


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    #386
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    I'll just leave that there.

    Answer the question. Do you think rte should inform us of every medical practice out there?


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    #387
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Please point out where any of our media has relayed the facts about the practise of abortion to the public. We're in the throes of a campaign to legalise abortion-on-demand but nobody wants to say what it is we're supposed to legalise. Can you spot what might be wrong with that?

    I don't really want to know the nitty gritty details of open heart surgery and I do not expect the media to provide details of this or any other surgical procedure. To be honest I know more about abortion than probably most other surgical procedures. Information is readily available to anyone requiring education in that area.


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    #388
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,765 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Illegal is your word.

    Immoral is mine. Engineering a partial birth abortion to get an 'intact sample'.
    Sick, just sick.
    You dismiss reference to illegality and then state partial birth abortions (illegal in US as of 2003) are taking place.:confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #389
    Two Sheds
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Answer the question. Do you think rte should inform us of every medical practice out there?
    When we have politicians and lobbyists from the UN to Amnesty International broadcasting their demands that we liberalise our laws on abortion then yes, RTE, as the Public Service Broadcaster, has a duty to inform us, to the fullest possible extent, about what it is we're supposed to accept.


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    #390
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    When we have politicians and lobbyists from the UN to Amnesty International broadcasting their demands that we liberalise our laws on abortion then yes, RTE, as the Public Service Broadcaster, has a duty to inform us, to the fullest possible extent, about what it is we're supposed to accept.

    People already know, there you go again assuming support for abortion equals ignorance of the procedure.


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    #391
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,765 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    When we have politicians and lobbyists from the UN to Amnesty International broadcasting their demands that we liberalise our laws on abortion then yes, RTE, as the Public Service Broadcaster, has a duty to inform us, to the fullest possible extent, about what it is we're supposed to accept.
    I'm presuming that you mean take a pro-life slant. I doubt you'd okay with them informing people that abortion is safer for a woman compared to carry the pregnancy to term.

    Or explaining exactly what's involved in carry a foetus that has been diagnosed with a fatal foetal abnormality to term.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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