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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #902
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You clearly don't like it when your request is answered and it doesn't suit your agenda. :)

    Intent to save life is Prime in justified terminations to save someone's life.

    But not to save the body and mind of a 14 year old rape victim right? Lock her away and force her to give birth because your imaginary "god" says so.


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    #903
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But not to save the body and mind of a 14 year old rape victim right? Lock her away and force her to give birth because your imaginary "god" says so.

    Executing an unborn baby for the violent crime of her father can never be justified from my perspective.


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    #904
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Executing an unborn baby for the violent crime of her father can never be justified from my perspective.

    And forcing violence upon the body and mind of an already traumatised child can never be justified from my perspective.


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    #905
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Executing an unborn baby for the violent crime of her father can never be justified from my perspective.

    My question was not about your perspective, it was about the fact that you invoke God in your defence. How do you know he agrees that any kinds of killing are acceptable, and in this case specifically the idea of choosing the woman over the fetus? Where does it say that in the bible?

    Do not kill is pretty clear. You're the one who has hedged that about with addenda here. Where do they come from? God?


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    #906
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You clearly don't like it when your request is answered and it doesn't suit your agenda. :)

    Intent to save life is Prime in justified terminations to save someone's life.

    Where did God say that? Or do you think he won't notice what's happening at the same time if you try really hard not to think about that part of what the doctor is doing?


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    #907
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,765 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    No need to judge my ability to comprehend. Please refrain in future.

    This is a discussion forum. Anyone can reply to a post as long as they don't breach the charter.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #908
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    My question was not about your perspective, it was about the fact that you invoke God in your defence. How do you know he agrees that any kinds of killing are acceptable, and in this case specifically the idea of choosing the woman over the fetus? Where does it say that in the bible?

    Do not kill is pretty clear. You're the one who has hedged that about with addenda here. Where do they come from? God?

    I'll take my chances on Judgement Day.


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    #909
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Where did God say that? Or do you think he won't notice what's happening at the same time if you try really hard not to think about that part of what the doctor is doing?

    I'll take my chances on Judgement Day.


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    #910
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Delirium wrote: »
    This is a discussion forum. Anyone can reply to a post as long as they don't breach the charter.

    My request stands.


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    #911
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,765 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You have no understanding of intent.

    ...
    Direct intent: a person has direct intent when they intend a particular consequence of their act.

    Oblique intent: a person has oblique intent when the event is a natural consequence of a voluntary act and they foresee it as such
    source

    Seems MrP was pretty accurate tbh.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #912
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I'll take my chances on Judgement Day.

    Another cop out reply when the question gets to tough.


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    #913
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I'll take my chances on Judgement Day.

    That doesn't answer the question.


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    #914
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Delirium wrote: »
    ...

    source

    Seems MrP was pretty accurate tbh.

    Absolutely not.

    A termination with the intention to save the mother's life from a direct, physical threat, is just that. Even when an unintentional consequence is the tragic death f the baby.


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    #915
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Another cop out reply when the question gets to tough.

    I knew you wouldn't like the answer, but its does me just fine.


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    #916
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    That doesn't answer the question.

    To your satisfaction? Probably not.

    But we all have to deal with replies that don't satisfy us from time to time.

    My advice would be not to let it eat you up.

    I have to deal with similar situations when dealing with abortion advocates, regularly.

    I offer it up to the big Guy. He's got big shoulders and can deal with it fat better than i.

    Now, I'm off to Mass.

    Laters. :)


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    #917
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    A termination with the intention to save the mother's life from a direct, physical threat, is just that. Even when an unintentional consequence is the tragic death f the baby.

    So where in the bible does it state that this is ok?

    Remember you are the one who quoted "though shalt not kill".


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    #918
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,765 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    A termination with the intention to save the mother's life from a direct, physical threat, is just that. Even when an unintentional consequence is the tragic death f the baby.

    I see we've reached the ostrich phase of this tangent.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #919
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You have no understanding of intent.

    I actually have a pretty good understanding of intent. That you think I don't indicates you have, as suspected, no clue.

    MrP


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    #920
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    A termination with the intention to save the mother's life from a direct, physical threat, is just that. Even when an unintentional consequence is the tragic death f the baby.

    There is no unintentional consequence here. A termination's sole purpose, in any circumstance, is the entirely intentional "tragic death of the baby". This outcome is not accidental and it's not a side effect, if this doesn't happen then the termination failed.


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    #921
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Delirium wrote: »
    Group releases videos making, as yet unproven, allegations about ilegal activities by Planned Parenthood.

    Do PP issue legal writs to censor the allegations? No, they welcome investigations to clear their name.

    PP also make (also possibly false) statements about those who released videos. Group behind video issue legal writ to attempt to censor PP from repeating the statements.

    That's some mighty fine irony :pac:

    And to cap it off, it's from the far-right Christian site World Net Daily.


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    #922
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So where in the bible does it state that this is ok?

    Remember you are the one who quoted "though shalt not kill".

    I'm no Biblical scholar, but AFAIK I don't think PP is mentioned once, nor is the act of killing unborn children in the womb.


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    #923
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Delirium wrote: »
    I see we've reached the ostrich phase of this tangent.

    It is, what it is.


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    #924
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    robdonn wrote: »
    There is no unintentional consequence here. A termination's sole purpose, in any circumstance, is the entirely intentional "tragic death of the baby". This outcome is not accidental and it's not a side effect, if this doesn't happen then the termination failed.

    The intention is to save the mother's life, not to kill the baby.


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    #925
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The intention is to save the mother's life, not to kill the baby.

    If I punch you in the face and you die from the resulting fall, but my intention was genuinely just to get your mobile phone, am I guilty just of the phone theft, or of homicide as well?


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    #926
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    If I punch you in the face and you die from the resulting fall, but my intention was genuinely just to get your mobile phone, am I guilty just of the phone theft, or of homicide as well?

    Homocide? Isn't that an American legal term?


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    #927
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I'm no Biblical scholar, but AFAIK I don't think PP is mentioned once, nor is the act of killing unborn children in the womb.

    You stated it's ok to kill a foetus in the womb if it saves the mother's life, why is the death of that foetus ok with you?


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    #928
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Homocide? Isn't that an American legal term?

    Manslaughter then, if you prefer. Whatever. The question is the same.


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    #929
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Manslaughter then, if you prefer. Whatever. The question is the same.

    Yes, any act of violence, with the intention to do harm to the victim, and the victim dies, manslaughter could well be considered.


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    #930
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You stated it's ok to kill a foetus in the womb if it saves the mother's life

    I never said anything of the sort.

    Go back and read my posts carefully this time.


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    #931
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I never said anything of the sort.

    Go back and read my posts carefully this time.

    I did
    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Of course there is and its in tune with the X Case legislation. Where there is a direct threat to the life of the mother, a termination of pregnancy is wholly justifiable, if the doctors deem it necessary.


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