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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #1862
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robp wrote: »
    Carrying a baby in utero is a massive and utterly life changing event. Its a huge deal, but asking a women to do it is no more unreasonable than asking parents to lovingly raise a kid. 9 months is a lot less than 19 or so years.

    How about if you are asking the woman to carry that child for 9 months with the full knowledge that the baby will never survive outside of the womb?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97428416&postcount=422


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    #1863
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    Right, I get you now.

    Of course there's a huge difference, since we're not talking about refusing the right to give children up for adoption if they want to. That right exists and nobody seems to be trying to take it away.

    We're also not talking about "asking" women to carry a fetus to term. We're talking about forcing them to.

    The comparison really doesn't hold up.

    Its an excellent comparison. You can't kill your infant (unless in some rare cases in some pro abortion regimes) because life is in the way.


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    #1864
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    How about if you are asking the woman to carry that child for 9 months with the full knowledge that the baby will never survive outside of the womb?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97428416&postcount=422

    In nearly every case there is chance of life after birth.


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    #1865
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Its an excellent comparison. You can't kill your infant (unless in some rare cases in some pro abortion regimes) because life is in the way.

    That doesn't even make sense, much less strengthen your argument.

    Nobody's talking about killing infants.


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    #1866
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    In nearly every case there is chance of life after birth.

    A brief life of nothing but pain and suffering.


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    #1867
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    That doesn't even make sense, much less strengthen your argument.

    Nobody's talking about killing infants.

    Yeah hence its a side note, in brackets. Of course some infants are euthanized without consent in the Netherlands in some cases. A fact too often ignored.


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    #1868
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    A brief life of nothing but pain and suffering.

    Actually not at all. Quite the converse actually.


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    #1869
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Actually not at all. Quite the converse actually.

    You mean reverse. Converse is two people talking, or a shoe.

    You think these children have long, happy lives? I suppose all the doctors who say otherwise are being paid off by abortionists?


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    #1870
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Yeah hence its a side note, in brackets. Of course some infants are euthanized without consent in the Netherlands in some cases. A fact too often ignored.

    Actually it wasn't in brackets.

    Do you have a source for what you say about the Netherlands here? I can only find reference to it on unreliable pro-life sites.


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    #1871
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    You mean reverse. Converse is two people talking, or a shoe.

    converse
    [adj. kuh n-vurs, kon-vurs; n. kon-vurs]
    adjective
    1.
    opposite or contrary in direction, action, sequence, etc.; turned around
    2. Logic.
    a proposition obtained from another proposition by conversion.
    the relation between two terms, one of which is related to the other in a given manner, as “younger than” to “older than.”.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/converse

    Kev W wrote: »
    You think these children have long, happy lives? I suppose all the doctors who say otherwise are being paid off by abortionists?
    Not long lives but peaceful and often happy ones.


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    #1872
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    converse
    [adj. kuh n-vurs, kon-vurs; n. kon-vurs]
    adjective
    1.
    opposite or contrary in direction, action, sequence, etc.; turned around
    2. Logic.
    a proposition obtained from another proposition by conversion.
    the relation between two terms, one of which is related to the other in a given manner, as “younger than” to “older than.”.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/converse
    I stand corrected.
    Not long lives but peaceful and often happy ones.

    According to whom?


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    #1873
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    In nearly every case there is chance of life after birth.

    how about answering the question? Is it right to force women to carry a pregnancy to term when the child will die within hours of delivery?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1874
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    how about answering the question? Is it right to force women to carry a pregnancy to term when the child will die within hours of delivery?

    Parents who have gone through this are very grateful for the time they get. That is the reality of the parents who actually have experience.


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    #1875
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Parents who have gone through this are very grateful for the time they get. That is the reality of the parents who actually have experience.

    That's not an answer.

    Parents who have had abortions in situations like this are very grateful for that too. The Linehans being an example. Do you have any examples?


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    #1876
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Parents who have gone through this are very grateful for the time they get. That is the reality of the parents who actually have experience.

    That's circular logic, you can't be a parent without carrying the pregnancy to term.

    There are women who knew that they couldn't handle carrying the pregnancy to term

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1877
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    That's circular logic, you can't be a parent without carrying the pregnancy to term.

    There are women who knew that they couldn't handle carrying the pregnancy to term

    Nope. Abortion or not one is still a parent. There are couples who get bad advice and get no professional help. Then there are those who spread red herrings like Linehan.


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    #1878
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Nope. Abortion or not one is still a parent. There are couples who get bad advice and get no professional help.

    No. If you never have a child you're not a parent. that's not even debatable.


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    #1879
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Nope. Abortion or not one is still a parent. There are couples who get bad advice and get no professional help. Then there are those who spread red herrings like Linehan.

    By what metric do you judge the Linehans' story to be a red herring?


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    #1880
    Mya Nice Tuner
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Mya Nice Tuner


    robp wrote: »
    Nope. Abortion or not one is still a parent. There are couples who get bad advice and get no professional help.
    By what definition of parent is this true?
    robp wrote: »
    Then there are those who spread red herrings like Linehan.
    What of the Linehans' story is a red herring? Is there anything that isn't factual in their story?


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    #1881
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,931 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    robp wrote: »
    Parents who have gone through this are very grateful for the time they get. That is the reality of the parents who actually have experience.

    And the thing is, they chose to continue the pregnancy to term. You want to force this on EVERY woman carrying a foetus that will last no more than a few minutes of suffocating pain.


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    #1882
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    By what metric do you judge the Linehans' story to be a red herring?

    That incarceration was a risk if they resided in Ireland. In the last 150 years not a single women has been incarcerated for obtaining an abortion. I know he is a comedy writer and he loves his yarns but that is just an outrageous depiction of the situation.


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    #1883
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,931 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Kev W wrote: »
    By what metric do you judge the Linehans' story to be a red herring?

    It's not from womenhurt.ie or some other Legatus Lackey site.


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    #1884
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Nope. Abortion or not one is still a parent. There are couples who get bad advice and get no professional help. Then there are those who spread red herrings like Linehan.

    So raising fatal abnormalities regarding abortion is a red herring?:eek:

    That is a terrible lack of understanding/empathy.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1885
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Delirium wrote: »
    how about answering the question? Is it right to force women to carry a pregnancy to term when the child will die within hours of delivery?

    @robp still waiting btw

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1886
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    And the thing is, they chose to continue the pregnancy to term. You want to force this on EVERY woman carrying a foetus that will last no more than a few minutes of suffocating pain.

    Again strong OTT emphasis on the pain despite pain being preventable in modern medicine. Of course in many cases medication is not even needed becuase pain is not such an issue.


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    #1887
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    That incarceration was a risk if they resided in Ireland. In the last 150 years not a single women has been incarcerated for obtaining an abortion. I know he is a comedy writer and he loves his yarns but that is just an outrageous depiction of the situation.

    Yes.

    That was the entire point.


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    #1888
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    Yes.

    That was the entire point.

    :rolleyes: No its not. If it was a risk why hasn't it happened yet?


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    #1889
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    @robp still waiting btw

    If you think killing is an appropriate response you must you welcome post birth abortion as exists in the Netherlands? no?


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    #1890
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    robp wrote: »
    :rolleyes: No its not. If it was a risk why hasn't it happened yet?

    I don't think you know what risk means. It's not 'something that will definitely happen'


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    #1891
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    If you think killing is an appropriate response you must you welcome post birth abortion as exists in the Netherlands? no?

    That's not an answer. Care to give one? Third time asking.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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