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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #1892
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Tenley Rough Yeast wrote: »
    I don't think you know what risk means. It's not 'something that will definitely happen'

    If he any credibility he should have at least used the work risk instead of saying
    In Ireland, Helen would go to jail for going through with that operation,


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    #1893
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    That's not an answer. Care to give one? Third time asking.

    Of course it is barbaric and unacceptable to kill someone because they have terminal illness.


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    #1894
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Of course it is barbaric and unacceptable to kill someone because they have terminal illness.

    So it's better to suffer?


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    #1895
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    robp wrote: »
    If he any credibility he should have at least used the work risk instead of saying

    What happens to a person who has an abortion in Ireland for FFA?


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    #1896
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    robp wrote: »
    If he any credibility he should have at least used the work risk instead of saying

    It is badly phrased, because Helen would have zero chance of finding a doctor to carry out that operation in Ireland. Because of the risk of jail.

    I don't think anyone's ever been jailed in Ireland for driving a JCB through a playground while humming the theme from the A team. Doesn't mean you're allowed to do it.


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    #1897
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Of course it is barbaric and unacceptable to kill someone because they have terminal illness.

    And others would posit it is barbaric to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term just to watch it die.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1898
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Tenley Rough Yeast wrote: »
    It is badly phrased, because Helen would have zero chance of finding a doctor to carry out that operation in Ireland. Because of the risk of jail.

    I don't think anyone's ever been jailed in Ireland for driving a JCB through a playground while humming the theme from the A team. Doesn't mean you're allowed to do it.

    Yes its not allowed thankfully. The sentence acts as a deterrent. Abortions have been prosecuted before in Ireland but incarceration of the mother has not been the favoured approach.


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    #1899
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    And others would posit it is barbaric to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term just to watch it die.

    "It" is that how you see other human beings?


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    #1900
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    "It" is that how you see other human beings?
    Do you also moan about people asking parents of a newborn if "it is a boy or girl"? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    There are serious issues about abortion to be discussed, so how about less of the silly stuff?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1901
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    Do you also moan about people asking parents of a newborn if "it is a boy or girl"? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    There are serious issues about abortion to discussed, so how about less of the silly stuff?

    There has been a persistent attempt to disassociate unborn people from any kind of humanizing language. The same occurs during attacks on refugees, travellers or any kind of persecuted group. It has to be called out.


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    #1902
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    What's the Catholic position on vasectomies? Are men who have them going to hell?


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    #1903
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    There has been a persistent attempt to disassociate unborn people from any kind of humanizing language. The same occurs during attacks on refugees, travellers or any kind of persecuted group. It has to be called out.

    There has been an equally, if not more, persistent attempt to use inaccurate and emotive language to skew opinions on a medical issue. Comparisons to persecuted groups, for example.


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    #1904
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    There has been an equally, if not more, persistent attempt to use inaccurate and emotive language to skew opinions on a medical issue. Comparisons to persecuted groups, for example.

    Aborting ill babies is not a medical issue. Its an elective procedure. Oh they are not persecuted are they? They are just in the way are they?


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    #1905
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    robp wrote: »
    Yes its not allowed thankfully. The sentence acts as a deterrent. Abortions have been prosecuted before in Ireland but incarceration of the mother has not been the favoured approach.

    It is still on the books though. It's not distorting facts to point out that, at the very least in principle, people could be jailed for having an abortion, regardless of whether or not it was a pregnancy with any chance of long term viability after birth.

    Would you think it's right to jail a woman for years for having an abortion, or do you just think it should be there as a kind of Cold War nuclear option?
    robp wrote: »
    There has been a persistent attempt to disassociate unborn people from any kind of humanizing language. The same occurs during attacks on refugees, travellers or any kind of persecuted group. It has to be called out.

    Especially when it gets you out of addressing anything in a post except the word 'it'


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    #1906
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    Aborting ill babies is not a medical issue.

    Yes it is. See the word "ill" there?
    Its an elective procedure.

    A nose job is an elective procedure. Not an abortion.
    Oh they are not persecuted are they? They are just in the way are they?

    You can't persecute a person that doesn't exist.


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    #1907
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Tenley Rough Yeast wrote: »
    It is still on the books though. It's not distorting facts to point out that, at the very least in principle
    Too bad than he did not point it out as a possibility in principle.
    Tenley Rough Yeast wrote: »
    It is still on the books though. It's not distorting facts to point out that, at the very least in principle, people could be jailed for having an abortion, regardless of whether or not it was a pregnancy with any chance of long term viability after birth.

    Would you think it's right to jail a woman for years for having an abortion, or do you just think it should be there as a kind of Cold War nuclear option?
    The correct treatment is a question for legislators not boardies. The tragedy of abortion is that it all too often damages women. Some surveys in the US indicate that most feel forced into by their circumstances. I find that a shocking indictment of society.


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    #1908
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    Yes it is. See the word "ill" there?



    A nose job is an elective procedure. Not an abortion.



    You can't persecute a person that doesn't exist.

    So such an abortion is a medical procedure because the child is ill, even though you say that child does not exist yet. This has to be a wind up!


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    #1909
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    There has been a persistent attempt to disassociate unborn people from any kind of humanizing language. The same occurs during attacks on refugees, travellers or any kind of persecuted group. It has to be called out.

    Feel free to take it up with those who do so.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1910
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robp wrote: »
    That incarceration was a risk if they resided in Ireland. In the last 150 years not a single women has been incarcerated for obtaining an abortion. I know he is a comedy writer and he loves his yarns but that is just an outrageous depiction of the situation.

    Tell us of your experience of this situation that gives you the right to claim their depiction is "outrageous"


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    #1911
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Aborting ill babies is not a medical issue. Its an elective procedure. Oh they are not persecuted are they? They are just in the way are they?

    So the doctors won't treat the child if it's carried to term? :confused::confused::eek:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1912
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Tell us of your experience of this situation that gives you the right to claim their depiction is "outrageous"

    It has not been implemented in the last 150 years.


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    #1913
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    So the doctors won't treat the child if it's carried to term? :confused::confused::eek:

    I think you misread the post. The poster alleged aborting a gravely ill baby is procedure but actually its elective.


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    #1914
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robp wrote: »
    It has not been implemented in the last 150 years.

    So because it hasn't happened that means it couldn't happen? The fact of the matter is that the risk was there and EVERYTHING they said was true.


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    #1915
    Mya Nice Tuner
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Mya Nice Tuner


    robp wrote: »
    It has not been implemented in the last 150 years.

    Empirical evidence is not required is it?

    Recall electro-bitch's scenario of someone driving a JCB through a playground.


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    #1916
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    So such an abortion is a medical procedure because the child is ill, even though you say that child does not exist yet. This has to be a wind up!

    Did I say a child was ill? That was you, I think.


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    #1917
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    I think you misread the post. The poster alleged aborting a gravely ill baby is procedure but actually its elective.

    Perhaps in the sense that virtually any medical procedure is elective but that's not the proper sense in which the term "elective" is used.


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    #1918
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,782 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Too bad than he did not point it out as a possibility in principle.


    The correct treatment is a question for legislators not boardies. The tragedy of abortion is that it all too often damages women. Some surveys in the US indicate that most feel forced into by their circumstances. I find that a shocking indictment of society.

    Source?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1919
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Empirical evidence is not required is it?

    Recall electro-bitch's scenario of someone driving a JCB through a playground.

    People don't drive JCBs through playgrounds so there is no specific framework for dealing with it. But there are abortions in Ireland backstreet surgical types prior to the 1960s and some pill-based types today so there is a precedent.


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    #1920
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    Did I say a child was ill? That was you, I think.

    You did. You said
    Yes it is. See the word "ill" there?

    Plus we are discussing terminally ill kids here so its a given.


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    #1921
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robp wrote: »
    People don't drive JCBs through playgrounds so there is no specific framework for dealing with it. But there are abortions in Ireland backstreet surgical types prior to the 1960s and some pill-based types today so there is a precedent.

    Because of our backwards laws that state a woman can be FORCED to carry a fetus to full term even if that fetus stands no chance of living outside of the womb


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