Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

Kev W

La Fenetre wrote: »

You can poison them if you're quicker but not too handy with the old forceps and hoover. You can still make good money at either though if that's your thing.

Thank you again, this time for the demonstration that you don't know what you're talking about.

La Fenetre

lazygal wrote: »

So abortion doesn't always involve hacking up the unborn. How much money is made from the abortion pill?

That depends how much you charge. You're never going to make money if you don't know that.

lazygal

Kev W wrote: »

Thank you again, this time for the demonstration that you don't know what you're talking about.

Or that forceps and vacuum delivery aren't just for killing the unborn. They can also be used to ensure a live delivery!

lazygal

La Fenetre wrote: »

That depends how much you charge. You're never going to make money if you don't know that.

How much is the abortion pill?

What would happen in Ireland, do you think, if women couldn't travel to kill the unborn? Would anyone die from a botched abortion? Or would all the women travelling to kill the unborn right now just remain pregnant without doing anything about it?

PopePalpatine

I take it womenonweb has gone unmentioned?

Overheal

Guys - what in he world are we talking about now?

Absolam

Career opportunities in the abortion industry I think..... apparently there's good money to be made no matter how you look at it.

frag420

Absolam wrote: »

Career opportunities in the abortion industry I think..... apparently there's good money to be made no matter how you look at it.

What kind of experience is required? I once gave a pill to a friend as she had a very bad headache...........would that work?

I can also drive a Lambo and in my previous job I earned over 500k!!

lazygal

frag420 wrote: »

What kind of experience is required? I once gave a pill to a friend as she had a very bad headache...........would that work?

I can also drive a Lambo and in my previous job I earned over 500k!!

Congratulations, pass GO, collect €200 and start your new career as head of Planned Parenthood.

robdonn

The argument is a bit silly, it's like saying people should become vets because there is good money in killing animals.

Putting animals down is not the primary service of a vet and is avoided if possible, but is an unfortunate necessity sometimes.

And it is the same with sexual health clinics like Planned Parenthood, abortion is not their primary service (we've been over PP's numbers here before) but it is a required service by some of their clients.

Delirium

Overheal wrote: »

Guys - what in he world are we talking about now?

I'm guessing it's something to do with this (though not really sure how)....

cattolico wrote: »

So Amnesty only gets 14 Irish Doctors in its latest push for Abortion, They must don't seem very popular with Irish Medical professionals.

which is alluding to this:

Irish doctors call for decriminalisation of abortion


Doctors and health professionals from every region of the world today added their voices to the growing pressure for the decriminalisation of abortion.


Some 838 doctors from 44 countries have signed an open letter to governments published today by Amnesty International.


The letter has been signed by some of the leading figures in Irish healthcare, which include Dr Peter Boylan, Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist at the National Maternity Hospital on Holles Street and Dr Veronica O’Keane, Professor in psychiatry at Trinity College Dublin and consultant psychiatrist.

Which names 17 medical professionals based in Ireland. Not sure if that's the total of medical professionals/doctors in Ireland that signed it.

Dr Emily McManus, Dr Peadar O’Grady, Dr Ross Kelly, Dr Mary Favier, Rosa Corr, Jeannine Webster, Marian Dwyer, Ana Rakovac, Aidan Foley, Dr Veronica O’Keane, Dr Peter Boylan, Dr Bryan Doherty, Helen Doherty, Dr Mark Murphy, Emer Byrne, Dr Marie Ferriter, Dr Caitriona Henchion are among the Ireland based healthcare professionals who have signed the petition.

Source


It might possibly be in response to the Dublin Declaration (which anyone with a web connection can sign btw. Unsure as to how AI compile their signatures.).

Link to Amnesty Ireland Open Letter from Medical Professionals

frag420

lazygal wrote: »

Congratulations, pass GO, collect €200 and start your new career as head of Planned Parenthood.

Whoa............I need to discuss the benefits too!!

Is there a pension? Do I get staff rates on baby parts? Parking space cose to the front door? Bullet proof windows in case any anti choice nutters want to kill me(the irony)

Overheal

So 14 of 838 petitioning doctors are Irish from among 44 countries.

According to my friend, enemy, and sometimes romantic lover - math - 2% of the doctors signing this are Irish and 2% of the countries involved also happen to be Ireland. So actually, that seems fairly representative for doctors willing to stick their neck out for something that is both illegal and unpopular at least among ~40-60% of the population - depending on how you do the polling and what way to phrase the questions. That's also not to say doctors could not get into professional trouble from on high either, with bosses moving schedules around and such for "ousted" doctors. So I am not seeing the issue there.

Absolam

Overheal wrote: »

So 14 of 838 petitioning doctors are Irish from among 44 countries. According to my friend, enemy, and sometimes romantic lover - math - 2% of the doctors signing this are Irish and 2% of the countries involved also happen to be Ireland. So actually, that seems fairly representative for doctors willing to stick their neck out for something that is both illegal and unpopular at least among ~40-60% of the population - depending on how you do the polling and what way to phrase the questions.

Well, they do say there's lies damn lies and statistics. Math would also tell us that whilst Ireland is just over 2% of 44 countries, Ireland most likely accounts for considerably less than 2% of the population of those 44 countries (being the 119th most populous country with 0.06% of the worlds population). In which case Ireland is overindexing for Amnesty, just as it probably does in the Dublin Declaration (which currently has about a thousand signatories, but doesn't say how many countries they come from).

The best conclusion I'd suggest that can reasonably drawn from the numbers is that Irish healthcare professionals appear to be more interested in expressing their opinion on abortion, whether positive or negative, than in other countries, though even that may be down to bias in the construction of the data gathering.

Overheal wrote: »

That's also not to say doctors could not get into professional trouble from on high either, with bosses moving schedules around and such for "ousted" doctors. So I am not seeing the issue there.

I suppose that goes either way, depending on whether you think the~40-60% split favours the doctors opinion, or not.

Delirium

‘I had to wait for my baby to die inside me’

A woman has spoken for the first time about the “five weeks of torture” she went through while waiting for her unborn baby to die because of Ireland’s abortion laws.

Claire Cullen-Delsol, 31, a mother of two from Waterford city, had to wait over a month for her daughter’s heartbeat to stop naturally before she could end a pregnancy that had no medical chance of succeeding.

Ms Cullen-Delsol and her husband, Wayne, have an eight-year-old daughter and a 20-month-old son. In August, twenty weeks into her pregnancy, she was told that Alex, her second daughter, would not survive because of a chromosome disorder.

Abortion is illegal in Ireland except in extremely limited circumstances, which do not include fatal foetal abnormalities.

“After they gave us the diagnoses, the doctors all said the best thing to do was end the pregnancy as soon as possible because there was no way she was going to survive,” Ms Cullen-Delsol said. “They said that if it wasn’t against the law, they would have done it for me in the morning.”

Many women in the same situation travel to Liverpool Women’s Hospital for a termination. The hospital helps women transfer their medical files to Britain — something Irish doctors are legally forbidden from doing. Women who travel must arrange to bring coffins back on ferries, and sometimes the baby’s body is posted home.

Ms Cullen-Delsol said that travelling for an abortion seemed too traumatic, so her only choice was to wait until the baby died. “During those five weeks I could still feel her moving inside me, and every week the movement would get less and less — she was dying inside me,” she said. “Sometimes when I couldn’t feel her moving I would drink something cold and then something hot, and then I might try loud music, and then I might jump around to see if she’d move, just to be sure.

“I would wake up every day and say, ‘Is it going to be today? Is today going to be the day she dies?’ ”

MrPudding

Delirium wrote: »

‘I had to wait for my baby to die inside me’

Yeah, but that was best for the baby and probably character building for the mother. Sure, she didn't have to have sex, but if she was going to have sex then sometimes waiting for five weeks for your baby to die is a consequence of having sex, so suck it up. If you don't want to carry a dying baby around for 5 weeks then don't have sex.

MrP

cattolico

Delirium wrote: »

‘I had to wait for my baby to die inside me’

any true mother would not want their child to die. its still her child, she had 5 more weeks of life with her baby. Many parents who have lost children would give anything to have more time with them.

PopePalpatine

You must have missed the bit about it having a FREAKING FATAL ABNORMALITY.

lazygal

cattolico wrote: »

any true mother would not want their child to die. its still her child, she had 5 more weeks of life with her baby. Many parents who have lost children would give anything to have more time with them.

This is truly the face of the pro-life movement. Compulsory gestation no matter what.

Kev W

cattolico wrote: »

any true mother would not want their child to die. its still her child, she had 5 more weeks of life with her baby. Many parents who have lost children would give anything to have more time with them.

That's sickening. You're actually saying that this woman is not a "true mother" because she's upset that her child died slowly. You should be ashamed.

cattolico

Kev W wrote: »

That's sickening. You're actually saying that this woman is not a "true mother" because she's upset that her child died slowly. You should be ashamed.

No I didn't say that. What is the alternative.. to Kill the child quickly?

robdonn

cattolico wrote: »

No I didn't say that. What is the alternative.. to Kill the child quickly?

What child?

lazygal

cattolico wrote: »

No I didn't say that. What is the alternative.. to Kill the child quickly?

Would she not be a mother if she'd delivered earlier by terminating the pregnancy? Or are only women who gestate for the full term mothers?

Keep posting your offensive stuff. People are opening their eyes to the real motives of the pro-life movement. Compulsory gestation for every single pregnant woman and child, in every circumstance.

Kev W

cattolico wrote: »

No I didn't say that. What is the alternative.. to Kill the child quickly?

There was no child. But because of people just like you there was unnecessary suffering. Shame on you and everyone who thinks like you.

Delirium

cattolico wrote: »

any true mother would not want their child to die. its still her child, she had 5 more weeks of life with her baby. Many parents who have lost children would give anything to have more time with them.

That's a pretty awful post tbh.

The woman didn't want the pregnancy to end as it did. She didn't get pregnant and seek an abortion.

The doctors diagnosed a fatal abnormality and said they would have recommended abortion were it not illegal in that situation.

She then had to endure 5 weeks of waking every morning to wonder if that was the day she would deliver the child stillborn/to watch it die.

There is no life saved by visiting a second cruelty on the woman by forcing her to carry on the pregnancy just so she could cremate the stillborn child. It didn't save a foetus, it still died.

In this scenario, you're merely condoning the additional suffering the woman was put through.

cattolico

Kev W wrote: »

There was no child. But because of people just like you there was unnecessary suffering. Shame on you and everyone who thinks like you.

It must have been an imaginary heartbeat from a non existent human being.

Kev W

cattolico wrote: »

It must have been an imaginary heartbeat from a non existent human being.

Which is more than I imagine you have.

Delirium

Kev W wrote: »

Which is more than I imagine you have.

MOD NOTE

Less of the personal comments please.

Attack the post, not the poster.

Thanks for your attention.

La Fenetre

Kev W wrote: »

Which is more than I imagine you have.

He's not the one with blood lust for killing kids before they're born.

frag420

La Fenetre wrote: »

He's not the one with blood lust for killing kids before they're born.

Correct, he is one who will force a woman to carry through a pregnancy knowing full well that the the fetus will not survive only to appease a beardy bloke in the clouds!!

Cattolico, what gives you the right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body?

Please answer......