Guinness Pro12 2015/2016 Season thread

El_Duderino 09

errlloyd wrote:

I saw a rumour recently that Halfpenny might be home from toulon next season, would that be Cardiff or would he go for one of the stronger teams.

I can see myself cursing him for kicking penalties against the Irish provences, from his 10m line. Great addition to the pro 12 though and good for Welsh Rugby to have a star lining out every week. Hope it happens.

thomond2006

Patchell is going to Scarlets so Halfpenny returning to Cardiff would make sense.

errlloyd

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I can see myself cursing him for kicking penalties against the Irish provences, from his 10m line. Great addition to the pro 12 though and good for Welsh Rugby to have a star lining out every week. Hope it happens.

Oh don't worry, you can almost guarantee Cardiff will continue to be a mammoth disappointment.

LuckyGent88

Cracking last 15 mins in the Cardiff Glasgow game.

Glasgow look real strong once again.

Borders no.2

Glasgow will be in the shakeup once again this season but while Cardiff are putting up decent scores in most matches, this is the 5th game in a row they've conceded a 4 try bonus. They have had some tough games but they won't be troubling the European spots with that kind of record.

thomond2006

With Picamoles on his way out, it's being reported that Toulouse are after Faletau.

phog

Three away wins this weekend. Ulster with the highest away win margin.

Ospreys could be in trouble yet, just under a 1/3 of the season over and they're only on 11 points. Is it 7 or 8 that get into the cup next season? They'll find it tough to catch the Scarlets to get in as best placed Welsh team.

errlloyd

4 from 4 Irish this weekend. Can we make a note to never takes these for granted. It hasn't always been like this and it won't always be like this (and in many ways we wouldn't say no to a more competitive league). It feels good though.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

4 from 4 Irish this weekend. Can we make a note to never takes these for granted. It hasn't always been like this and it won't always be like this (and in many ways we wouldn't say no to a more competitive league). It feels good though.

Its been an entertaining pro 12 season so far too. Enjoying it more than last year

phog

Saw this on Twitter, Ospreys fan not happy with the fixtures

Gary John (@ospreysmonkey) tweeted at 1:17 AM on Sun, Nov 08, 2015:
Curiously, during the 6 nations, Ospreys play Munster, Connacht, and Leinster away. Strange that eh!

Hard to blame him really

Borders no.2

phog wrote: »

Saw this on Twitter, Ospreys fan not happy with the fixtures



Hard to blame him really

So what really, they had Munster and Connacht at home during the World Cup and lost both.

molloyjh

phog wrote: »

Saw this on Twitter, Ospreys fan not happy with the fixtures



Hard to blame him really

Surely the best time for Ospreys to face Leinster away is when they are shorn of more players than they are, no? Leinster were away to Ospreys and Scarlets last season at this time. You didn't see us b***h about it. Plus they had Munster and Connacht at home during the RWC. I didn't see them complaining when they had Leinster and Munster at home at the same time last season either. So OspreysMonkey can cry me a river.

Zzippy

Some Welsh fans have a serious chip on their shoulder about the Pro12 being based in Dublin, about Irish referees, blah blah. Connacht have 3 away games during that period also. These Welsh conspiracy theorists will probably counter that one of them is against Zebre, which they'll say is easy (it's not, anymore) but then again up to recently Connacht would have been regarded as a gimme by Ospreys fans. So I'll take Ospreys fans being worried about an away trip to Connacht as a compliment!

irishbucsfan

The Pro 12 based in Dublin, run by Feehan (who also runs the 6 Nations and of course prioritises that), very little transparency around certain aspects including scheduling. Not really enough substance to have a particularly enlightened discussion about it here, but I know that it's not just the Welsh who don't like it.

errlloyd

Maybe it wouldn't be worth the effort, but if there is a long post or article somewhere demonstrating that there has been an actual bias against the Welsh in scheduling recently, I'd be interested in reading it. I think if it was happening every year I'd accept it, but I find that hard to believe because the schedule changes so much.

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Pro 12 based in Dublin, run by Feehan (who also runs the 6 Nations and of course prioritises that), very little transparency around certain aspects including scheduling. Not really enough substance to have a particularly enlightened discussion about it here, but I know that it's not just the Welsh who don't like it.

If the clubs aren't happy with it we would surely have heard more about it, especially the way the Welsh clubs like to moan. It's more likely IMO that they realise that fixtures will never suit everyone and you have some easy runs and some tough ones. Fixtures also have to be scheduled to suit the needs of TV sponsors. Also, if it was more than just the Welsh i.e. the Scots and/or Italians they would have the voting power to outvote these supposedly biased Irish and implement changes to how scheduling is done. They haven't even brought it up by all accounts.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

If the clubs aren't happy with it we would surely have heard more about it, especially the way the Welsh clubs like to moan. It's more likely IMO that they realise that fixtures will never suit everyone and you have some easy runs and some tough ones. Fixtures also have to be scheduled to suit the needs of TV sponsors. Also, if it was more than just the Welsh i.e. the Scots and/or Italians they would have the voting power to outvote these supposedly biased Irish and implement changes to how scheduling is done. They haven't even brought it up by all accounts.

Well I've heard some things myself, and it wasn't from Welsh, Scots or Italians.

The problem, despite random tweets, isn't really an issue of bias I don't think. Well certainly not bias towards Irish teams against other teams within the league. More the way CLL is run and the aims of the people who run CLL versus the aims of the clubs within the league. And no, they can't just vote to change the status quo.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Pro 12 based in Dublin, run by Feehan (who also runs the 6 Nations and of course prioritises that), very little transparency around certain aspects including scheduling. Not really enough substance to have a particularly enlightened discussion about it here, but I know that it's not just the Welsh who don't like it.

So what, CLL should move to Switzerland? Feehan hardly has absolute control over CLL either so saying it is run by him is a bit misleading.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And no, they can't just vote to change the status quo.

There's that phrase again... :pac:

molloyjh

It's also worth pointing out that this season there are more Pro12 games inside the international windows than outside. Add in the derby games at Christmas and there's not a huge number of games left to play with. It's just the way it has worked out this season. Unless the Welsh and Irish games get prioritised over all others it simply can't work any other way. And surely that's exactly the kind of schedule fixing they want to avoid?

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

So what, CLL should move to Switzerland? Feehan hardly has absolute control over CLL either so saying it is run by him is a bit misleading.

He's MD if I'm not mistaken. So not really misleading at all.

There's no need for CLL to move to Switzerland, just some small reform to get the clubs more involved.

Edit, I am mistaken. Hes CEO. So still not misleading.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's MD if I'm not mistaken. So not really misleading at all.

There's no need for CLL to move to Switzerland, just some small reform to get the clubs more involved.

Edit, I am mistaken. Hes CEO. So still not misleading.

He may be CEO but the league is owned by all 4 Unions and the board has equal members from all 4 Unions as well. So as l said, Feehan doesn't have absolute control. You can be factually accurate and misleading at the same time. Feehan manages the company that runs the league but the owners are the Unions themselves.

EDIT: This is obviously a Union vs Club debate all over again. And I'm not touching that this time.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

He may be CEO but the league is owned by all 4 Unions and the board has equal members from all 4 Unions as well. So as l said, Feehan doesn't have absolute control. You can be factually accurate and misleading at the same time. Feehan manages the company that runs the league but the owners are the Unions themselves.

EDIT: This is obviously a Union vs Club debate all over again. And I'm not touching that this time.

Right, well I didn't say he had absolute control. That IS misleading.

Feehan was described as the most powerful man in British [sic] rugby by the press not too long ago. There's a good reason for that. I would welcome a decoupling of the 6 Nations and the Pro 12, it would be positive for the league and I think the strength of the league will be absolutely crucial for Irish rugby going forward.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right, well I didn't say he had absolute control. That IS misleading.

Feehan was described as the most powerful man in British [sic] rugby by the press not too long ago. There's a good reason for that. I would welcome a decoupling of the 6 Nations and the Pro 12, it would be positive for the league and I think the strength of the league will be absolutely crucial for Irish rugby going forward.

by Walesonline in May

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-verdict-most-powerful-9304267

In that interview he actually talks about working to extract himself from the Pro12, so it seems your wishes are already in progress.

We are going to appoint a new managing director of the Pro12 who will report to the board and be working under me to a large extent.

It’s envisaged in the longer term that this will be a standalone organisation and I won’t be involved. That’s very definitely my choice.

Is the idea then that the Pro12 will become a completely separate organisation, removed from the Lions and Six Nations set-up?
Not initially, but perhaps in the long-term yes.

Also, have to laugh at 'the press' usage there! A single article describes him stupidly as so. Our own Irish Examiner lists him only as #7 in Irish Rugby (though of course we could say that you could be #7 in Irish Rugby and #1 in British Rugby at the same time)

!!Click Here to See the Top 50,000 Powerful Men in British Rugby!!

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

by Walesonline in May

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-verdict-most-powerful-9304267

In that interview he actually talks about working to extract himself from the Pro12, so it seems your wishes are already in progress.




Also, have to laugh at 'the press' usage there! A single article describes him stupidly as so. Our own Irish Examiner lists him only as #7 in Irish Rugby (though of course we could say that you could be #7 in Irish Rugby and #1 in British Rugby at the same time)

!!Click Here to See the Top 50,000 Powerful Men in British Rugby!!

We'll that's good that he says it should become a standalone organisation in the long term. It's taken FAR top long to get there and it could take a lot longer. It should have happened years ago and the league is far worse off for it, let's hope any change is a real shift towards independence and not just some puppet.

Also interesting that one article who calls him the most powerful man is "stupid" bit the Examiner is supposed to be evidence otherwise? Is there some sort of ranking system for the credibility of sources you'd like me to follow?

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We'll that's good that he says it should become a standalone organisation in the long term. It's taken FAR top long to get there and it could take a lot longer. It should have happened years ago and the league is far worse off for it, let's hope any change is a real shift towards independence and not just some puppet.

Also interesting that one article who calls him the most powerful man is "stupid" bit the Examiner is supposed to be evidence otherwise? Is there some sort of ranking system for the credibility of sources you'd like me to follow?

I was actually referring to the 'British Rugby' part and not the ranking... You also drew attention to this.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right, well I didn't say he had absolute control. That IS misleading.

Feehan was described as the most powerful man in British [sic] rugby by the press not too long ago. There's a good reason for that. I would welcome a decoupling of the 6 Nations and the Pro 12, it would be positive for the league and I think the strength of the league will be absolutely crucial for Irish rugby going forward.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was actually referring to the 'British Rugby' part and not the ranking... You also drew attention to this.

Yeah, that was an odd descriptor for him. Maybe they were just concerned about column inches.

It does make sense that he could rank higher in "British" rugby than Irish rugby. He holds influential positions at 6 Nations Ltd, Celtic League Ltd and also with the British and Irish Lions. Those positions are all international in their nature whereas someone like Grace is pulling the strings for Irish rugby directly on a day-to-day basis whereas it's more Irish rugby haegamonically wielding power through Feehan rather than the other way around, imo.

It just happens that I very strongly believe both the 6 Nations and Celtic League Ltd could do with reform and it would be very positive for rugby in Europe for that to happen ASAP.

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I've heard some things myself, and it wasn't from Welsh, Scots or Italians.

Well if it's people outside the league then it's no business of theirs really how it's run, is it? I don't think the Top14 is run particularly well, but it's nothing to do with me, so who cares what I'm not impressed by...

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The problem, despite random tweets, isn't really an issue of bias I don't think. Well certainly not bias towards Irish teams against other teams within the league. More the way CLL is run and the aims of the people who run CLL versus the aims of the clubs within the league. And no, they can't just vote to change the status quo.

Can you elaborate on this? If the people running the league don't have the interests of the clubs at heart then the unions representing the clubs can do something about it surely...

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Well if it's people outside the league then it's no business of theirs really how it's run, is it? I don't think the Top14 is run particularly well, but it's nothing to do with me, so who cares what I'm not impressed by...

It's not people outside the league.

Zzippy wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this? If the people running the league don't have the interests of the clubs at heart then the unions representing the clubs can do something about it surely...

That would be working under the assumption that the Unions have the strength of the league as their number one priority. Which of course they don't, it's far down the list for them, that's the concern. When the CEO of the league works for two "more important" other organisations whose requirements directly conflict with the league and it's clubs then you have problems.

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That would be working under the assumption that the Unions have the strength of the league as their number one priority. Which of course they don't, it's far down the list for them, that's the concern. When the CEO of the league works for two "more important" other organisations whose requirements directly conflict with the league and it's clubs then you have problems.

So the alternative is to to go the route of England and France, cede all the power to the clubs and let the national teams disintegrate a la France? The league is never going to be self-sustaining, unlike France and England there isn't the population there to justify massive sponsorship and tv deals. Therefore, the money from the 6N and international games that goes to the unions, and from there to the clubs, is needed, and it's no surprise the unions prioritise that. They are separate competitions though, in what way do those other priorities impact on how the Pro12 is run?

What exactly are these problems? Scheduling? Not much an independent organisation could do, given the restrictions imposed by international windows. Commercial development? See above re population size. Access to players? Do we really want to copy the French model, where players are flogged?

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

So the alternative is to to go the route of England and France, cede all the power to the clubs and let the national teams disintegrate a la France? The league is never going to be self-sustaining, unlike France and England there isn't the population there to justify massive sponsorship and tv deals. Therefore, the money from the 6N and international games that goes to the unions, and from there to the clubs, is needed, and it's no surprise the unions prioritise that. They are separate competitions though, in what way do those other priorities impact on how the Pro12 is run?

What exactly are these problems? Scheduling? Not much an independent organisation could do, given the restrictions imposed by international windows. Commercial development? See above re population size. Access to players? Do we really want to copy the French model, where players are flogged?

I had to stop here. This is just complete bollocks. That is not the only alternative whatsoever. :pac:

thomond2006

Jonathan Davies' return to Scarlets next season confirmed. It would be great for the Pro12 if the Welsh can recoup the players lost to France.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jonathan Davies' return to Scarlets confirmed. It would be great for the Pro12 if the Welsh can recoup the players lost to France.

The last few weeks have been excellent for the regions (not so much the clubs as Pontypridd will point out!). Getting that deal concluded with the WRU has led to some great advances in Welsh Rugby.

vienne86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The last few weeks have been excellent for the regions (not so much the clubs as Pontypridd will point out!). Getting that deal concluded with the WRU has led to some great advances in Welsh Rugby.

All good news for the league, which is great to hear.

former total

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jonathan Davies' return to Scarlets next season confirmed. It would be great for the Pro12 if the Welsh can recoup the players lost to France.

Gareth Davies, Steve Shingler/Rhys Patchell, DTHVDM, Scott Williams, Jonathan Davies, Jordan Williams, Liam Williams.

That is a SERIOUS backline. If Patchell can step up and the other guys can stay fit, then good things are going to happen.

Neil3030

Chatting to two lads on the way over for the Leinster Scarlets match last week. It's a complete and utter joke that North Wales are 'represented' by Llanelli. These two lads are from just inside the border near Chester and make an 8-hour round trip to see their 'local' team play at home. Look at a map, I actually can't think of a farther journey that can be made in Wales. Maybe Holyhead to Cardiff. I've lived in Bangor which is closer to Dublin than it is to Llanelli. North Wales is basically an afterthought to the WRU.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Chatting to two lads on the way over for the Leinster Scarlets match last week. It's a complete and utter joke that North Wales are 'represented' by Llanelli. These two lads are from just inside the border near Chester and make an 8-hour round trip to see their 'local' team play at home. Look at a map, I actually can't think of a farther journey that can be made in Wales. Maybe Holyhead to Cardiff. I've lived in Bangor which is closer to Dublin than it is to Llanelli. North Wales is basically an afterthought to the WRU.

The Regions' maps look fairly weird alright...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WalesRugbyRegions.png

connemara man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Regions' maps look fairly weird alright...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WalesRugbyRegions.png

That's mental! I'll never complain about travel again!

The Lost Sheep

Neil3030 wrote: »

Chatting to two lads on the way over for the Leinster Scarlets match last week. It's a complete and utter joke that North Wales are 'represented' by Llanelli. These two lads are from just inside the border near Chester and make an 8-hour round trip to see their 'local' team play at home. Look at a map, I actually can't think of a farther journey that can be made in Wales. Maybe Holyhead to Cardiff. I've lived in Bangor which is closer to Dublin than it is to Llanelli. North Wales is basically an afterthought to the WRU.

TBF there is very little rugby in North Wales and very little interest. The Welsh premiership/championship has 1 team from the North of the country and that's a development union side. Ive family living in North Wales and Soccer totally dominates, Liverpool/Manchester so close etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

The Regions' maps look fairly weird alright...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WalesRugbyRegions.png

It does but understandable from welsh point of view... what other way would you do it???

wp_rathead

It is a bit mad but on one hand there is no Northern club in the Welsh Premiership and only one in the Welsh Championship (RGC 1404)

That said, because there are no club's it could arguably be easier to get a Region's Rugby side going (no power struggle)

molloyjh

I did laugh I have to say....

https://twitter.com/scarlets_rugby/status/668803527754571778

connemara man

penybont exile

Neil3030 wrote: »

Chatting to two lads on the way over for the Leinster Scarlets match last week. It's a complete and utter joke that North Wales are 'represented' by Llanelli. These two lads are from just inside the border near Chester and make an 8-hour round trip to see their 'local' team play at home. Look at a map, I actually can't think of a farther journey that can be made in Wales. Maybe Holyhead to Cardiff. I've lived in Bangor which is closer to Dublin than it is to Llanelli. North Wales is basically an afterthought to the WRU.

The WRU is not that bothered about what happens north of the M4 never mind North Wales .......

awec

When are the refs for the weekend announced?

What are the odds that Leinster v Ulster is Lacey again?

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

When are the refs for the weekend announced?

What are the odds that Leinster v Ulster is Lacey again?

hopefully





.......

phog

awec wrote: »

When are the refs for the weekend announced?

What are the odds that Leinster v Ulster is Lacey again?

Usually pop up on Pro12 site on Tuesdays. Nigel Owens tweeted earlier that he's reffing Ospreys v Cardiff.

I suppose we'll get Philips or Wilkinson. :mad:

awec

awec wrote: »

When are the refs for the weekend announced?

What are the odds that Leinster v Ulster is Lacey again?

Well well well awec, not a bad prediction. Sodding Lacey again. Sigh...

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18418.php#Lzakb1iHI7UojPRE.97

RDS Arena, 7.35pm. Live on TG4/BBC NI
Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 46th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Andy Brace, Olly Hodges (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eugene Ryan (IRFU)
TMO: Dermot Moloney (IRFU)
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18418.php#BIt95hdQQytwfQoK.99

:mad:

vienne86

awec wrote: »

Well well well awec, not a bad prediction. Sodding Lacey again. Sigh...

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18418.php#Lzakb1iHI7UojPRE.97

RDS Arena, 7.35pm. Live on TG4/BBC NI
Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 46th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Andy Brace, Olly Hodges (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eugene Ryan (IRFU)
TMO: Dermot Moloney (IRFU)
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18418.php#BIt95hdQQytwfQoK.99

:mad:

Ah FFS, what have we done to deserve that!

awec

awec wrote: »

Well well well awec, not a bad prediction. Sodding Lacey again. Sigh...



:mad:

awec

Why is it that Munster Connacht can get a neutral ref (Welsh) and we end up with him? How can this keep happing?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Why is it that Munster Connacht can get a neutral ref (Welsh) and we end up with him? How can this keep happing?

The Pro 12 consider him a neutral ref. And they'd also consider him much further up the pecking order for the big games.