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The English and their weird fascist nationalism again.

1…34689…16

Comments

  • #252
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    barneystinson wrote: »
    How do you know that, don't you usually mute the TV... ;)

    I can read.....;)


  • #253
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes it was deliberate disrespect for a flag he considers oppressive. Get over it.

    How does a flag oppress?

    (Conjures up all kinds of Python-esque comic possibilities...)


  • #254
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    barneystinson wrote: »
    The soccer match is to do with whatever it's to do with. If it involves a pre-match ritual of facing flags and playing anthems then it's disrespectful not to just go along with it.

    First you attack him because you said that what he did had nothing to do with the soccer match.

    Then you changed your own "to do with the soccer match" frame of reference to also include the pre-match rituals including anthems.

    So do you now withdraw your original attack on him since it now has to do with the soccer match (according to your new frame of reference)?

    Or would you care to move the goalposts somewhere else?


  • #255
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    barneystinson wrote: »
    How does a flag oppress?

    (Conjures up all kinds of Python-esque comic possibilities...)

    Don't you oppress me!!!! :D:D


  • #256
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Nodin wrote: »
    It was standard practice all over the world by the BA - shoot down any leaders and men of arms bearing age. They were caught here because they did it on their own doorstep in view of modern world media. Arabs, Asians and Africans had to put up with that kind of thing for centuries. The people in command in the North in the early period had previously held command in Cyprus, various parts of Africa and Asia where that kind of thing was the bread and butter of colonial rule. Do you think they rant the empire on hugs and being friends on facebook?

    All of which, in fairness has very little to do with standing respectfully whilst the national anthem of a country is being played at a football match, whilst playing for a club that you have chosen to play for in that country.


  • #257
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    katydid wrote: »
    Because Ali had a point,and stood by it. Ali was born in a country where he was a second class citizen, and he owed them nothing. This eejit works in England, pays his tax to her Majesty's government, and then "takes a stand" by disrespecting his team mates, his club, and the country that give him a good living.

    You really need to learn a history lesson.

    McClean was born into the UK. Where historically his ethic/religious group were discriminated against in law and fact. In protesting about this in a civil rights march ( based on the African American model as it happens) his family and friends were shot down by an army. That's what he is upset about and it's legit.

    Ali also earned dollars and didn't leave the U.S. even though it gave him a "good living".

    You flag fetishists are hilarious.


  • #258
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    All of which, in fairness has very little to do with standing respectfully whilst the national anthem of a country is being played at a football match, whilst playing for a club that you have chosen to play for in that country.

    It's everything to do with because that flag was the flag of the army that murdered his relatives.

    Ffs. Disrespect. What does that even mean.

    An amazing amount of supposed "anti nationalists" in here have an unhealthy respect for flags.


  • #259
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I suppose she can't do her UKIP style "he should go back to where he came from" with Ali.

    Of course McClean is where he came from. The UK. He just doesn't respect the flag or anthem of where he came from, like Ali for a while.

    James McClean is 26. In the NI he grew up in, he was not treated as a second class citizen.

    Muhammed Ali was not allowed travel in the front of the bus growing up. He was not allowed into certain restaurants. He had to use separate public toilets. His fellow blacks were lynched for looking at a white woman in the wrong way. He had a reason to not respect the country of which he was a citizen.


  • #260
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    First you attack him because you said that what he did had nothing to do with the soccer match.

    Then you changed your own "to do with the soccer match" frame of reference to also include the pre-match rituals including anthems.

    So do you now withdraw your original attack on him since it now has to do with the soccer match (according to your new frame of reference)?

    Or would you care to move the goalposts somewhere else?

    Nothing has moved, and this really isn't difficult.

    He's a soccer player, at a soccer match. They have various crap they do before matches, it's part of the job. In the USA they do anthems, apparently. So you stand there like everyone else, be respectful of OTHER people's flags, anthems, whatever. Don't make it "political", by being disrespectful to the flag/anthem of what is, to you a foreign country. As I said, it's not difficult.


  • #261
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes it was deliberate disrespect for a flag he considers oppressive. Get over it.

    If he considers the flag oppressive, he must also consider the country and it's people oppressive, at the end of the day a flag is just a price of fabric but it represents a country and it's citizens. Why would he want to live and play professional football in a country he considers to be representative of oppression?


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  • #262
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    Can you cite the regulations which detail this standard practice?

    I can do better than that - a few samples. I've kept it post 1945.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/05/kenyan-mau-mau-cover-up-mistreatment

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/oct/13/kenya.foreignpolicy

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-how-british-empires-dirty-secrets-went-up-in-smoke-in-the-colonies-8971217.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/18/colonial-office-eliminations-malayan-insurgency

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20302280

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/may/17/military.iraq1


  • #263
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Nothing has moved, and this really isn't difficult.

    He's a soccer player, at a soccer match. They have various crap they do before matches, it's part of the job. In the USA they do anthems, apparently. So you stand there like everyone else, be respectful of OTHER people's flags, anthems, whatever. Don't make it "political", by being disrespectful to the flag/anthem of what is, to you a foreign country. As I said, it's not difficult.

    Could be worse I suppose.
    He could have been caught on camera throwing a cat into a wheelie bin......then he'd know about death threats etc.....
    Some people have a need for hyperbole.


  • #264
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Don't you oppress me!!!! :D:D

    http://youtu.be/fxGqcCeV3qk


  • #265
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    All of which, in fairness has very little to do with standing respectfully whilst the national anthem of a country is being played at a football match, whilst playing for a club that you have chosen to play for in that country.

    My post was directed at the one it quoted.......


  • #266
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    katydid wrote: »
    James McClean is 26. In the NI he grew up in, he was not treated as a second class citizen.

    Muhammed Ali was not allowed travel in the front of the bus growing up. He was not allowed into certain restaurants. He had to use separate public toilets. His fellow blacks were lynched for looking at a white woman in the wrong way. He had a reason to not respect the country of which he was a citizen.

    His parents generation were. Modern American blacks don't "respect" the confederate flags, even though the civil war and Jim Crow is over. Nor is Northern Ireland equal -- these things can't equalise in one generation.


  • #267
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    If he considers the flag oppressive, he must also consider the country and it's people oppressive

    Must he?
    Why?


  • #268
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    If McClean has such a hard time with da brits why is he there? Why not find a nice Fenian team in Scotland? or maybe go to France and play or make comradely contact with a Basque side like Athletic Bilbao


  • #269
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    katydid wrote: »
    Because Ali had a point,and stood by it.

    So does James McClean? He's standing by it. IMO he could do it more graciously but he's standing by it nonetheless.
    katydid wrote: »
    Ali was born in a country where he was a second class citizen, and he owed them nothing.

    Could most definitely say the same of a Catholic young man growing up in Northern Ireland. Although not to the extent of blacks in the States, the Bogside and Creggan would have been tough. I'm sure there were many no-go areas for people of a certain community. There are parallels.

    katydid wrote: »
    This eejit works in England, pays his tax to her Majesty's government, and then "takes a stand" by disrespecting his team mates, his club, and the country that give him a good living.

    You're pretty hell bent on calling him an eejit and a twerp. He's a young man that grew up with this stance his whole life. It's admirable that he sticks to his scruples when he could easily just be a run of the mill millionaire footballer with no substance to him. While I'm not 100% in agreement with how he handled it, I'd rather someone like him over a vacuous soundbyte merchant.


  • #270
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    James McClean is 26. In the NI he grew up in, he was not treated as a second class citizen.

    ............

    Go wave a Russian flag at a load of poles and if they complain, tell anybody under 30 they've nothing to complain about.


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  • #271
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    barneystinson wrote: »
    http://youtu.be/fxGqcCeV3qk

    now that you posted a link to a monthy Python sketch laughing about oppression I think we can reasonably assume that you've won the argument and nobody can claim oppression ever.


  • #272
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    It's everything to do with because that flag was the flag of the army that murdered his relatives.

    Ffs. Disrespect. What does that even mean.

    An amazing amount of supposed "anti nationalists" in here have an unhealthy respect for flags.

    The flag is the flag of the people of Britain. If some members of the British army did wrong while representing their country, they should have been disciplined. Some were. Not enough. But their actions don't mean that the entire British army AND British people who the British flag represents (or the English flag in this case) are responsible for what they did.

    But if he really believes this, and has principles, what's he doing working in England?


  • #273
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Must he?
    Why?

    Because flags can't oppress (hilarious surreal comedy sketch possibilities aside), so it's up to people to do the oppressing.


  • #274
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    If he considers the flag oppressive, he must also consider the country and it's people oppressive, at the end of the day a flag is just a price of fabric but it represents a country and it's citizens.

    A complete non-sequitur.


  • #275
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    katydid wrote: »
    Because Ali had a point,and stood by it. Ali was born in a country where he was a second class citizen, and he owed them nothing. This eejit works in England, pays his tax to her Majesty's government, and then "takes a stand" by disrespecting his team mates, his club, and the country that give him a good living.

    The parallels are quite apt in this case, because McClean's community were second class citizens also. The phrase "a protestant country for a protestant people" came from somewhere you know. John Hulme was marching for civil rights for a reason. I can't understand how Ali is exonerated for sticking by his beliefs, yet McClean is not.


  • #276
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Nodin wrote: »
    Go wave a Russian flag at a load of poles and if they complain, tell anybody under 30 they've nothing to complain about.

    Should said Poles be playing a game of Football for a Russian club in Russia, of their own volition at the time?


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  • #277
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    The flag is the flag of the people of Britain. If some members of the British army did wrong while representing their country, they should have been disciplined. Some were. Not enough. But their actions don't mean that the entire British army AND British people who the British flag represents (or the English flag in this case) are responsible for what they did.

    So it wasn't standard British policy to run racist colonial regimes in (then) Rhodesia, Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda, India etc and so on......? or allow NI to become a sectarian statelet? AH really is informative,


  • #278
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    now that you posted a link to a monthy Python sketch laughing about oppression I think we can reasonably assume that you've won the argument and nobody can claim oppression ever.
    This is after hours Eugene, so take a chill suppository... :rolleyes:


  • #279
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Omackeral wrote: »
    So does James McClean? He's standing by it. IMO he could do it more graciously but he's standing by it nonetheless.






    You're pretty hell bent on calling him an eejit and a twerp. He's a young man that grew up with this stance his whole life. It's admirable that he sticks to his scruples when he could easily just be a run of the mill millionaire footballer with no substance to him. While I'm not 100% in agreement with how he handled it, I'd rather someone like him over a vacuous soundbyte merchant.
    I'm calling him an eejit and a twerp because he is one. He pretends to be principled, but he has no problem taking the no doubt handsome salary the ENGLISH club pays him. Millionaire, hardly; WBA are not Man. United or Real Madrid. Let's keep it real here.

    No need for soundbytes either. No need for sound of any kind. Just turning around with your teammates and your hosts and showing a bit of respect. The Yanks don't a lot to thank the British Army for either, even if it was a couple of hundred years ago...


  • #280
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    katydid wrote: »
    The flag is the flag of the people of Britain. If some members of the British army did wrong while representing their country, they should have been disciplined. Some were. Not enough. But their actions don't mean that the entire British army AND British people who the British flag represents (or the English flag in this case) are responsible for what they did.

    By that logic no army is ever guilty of any offence ever. Nor is McClean blaming all the British people, its a flag he considers a symbol of oppression similar to how the confederate flag is seen in the U.S. And that flag was the flag of a State until recently, but so what.
    But if he really believes this, and has principles, what's he doing working in England?

    The British flag also flies in Northern Ireland. This whole "love it or leave it" is sheer UKIP fascism. He didn't actually move countries to go to England.


  • #281
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The parallels are quite apt in this case, because McClean's community were second class citizens also. The phrase "a protestant country for a protestant people" came from somewhere you know. John Hulme was marching for civil rights for a reason. I can't understand how Ali is exonerated for sticking by his beliefs, yet McClean is not.

    Because McClean is a Republican, and thus considered by some a lesser form of being.


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  • #282
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    barneystinson wrote: »
    This is after hours Eugene, so take a chill suppository... :rolleyes:

    It's a serious discussion barney. So I won't.


  • #283
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Nodin wrote: »
    Because McClean is a Republican, and thus considered by some a lesser form of being.

    Now you're getting to the nub of it.


  • #284
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Should said Poles be playing a game of Football for a Russian club in Russia, of their own volition at the time?

    You do realise that McClean is actually born into the country he is now making his fortune in? He didn't emigrate anywhere. The flag fetishists don't seem to understand that.

    Should I send you a map of the "British Isles" perhaps?


  • #285
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The parallels are quite apt in this case, because McClean's community were second class citizens also. The phrase "a protestant country for a protestant people" came from somewhere you know. John Hulme was marching for civil rights for a reason. I can't understand how Ali is exonerated for sticking by his beliefs, yet McClean is not.

    Don't get me wrong here, coz Katy is definitely out on her own in her views.... But...

    Ali took a stance at a point in time.

    McClean is taking his stance at this point in time. If (please God) in another 25, 50 or 100 years everything has (miraculously) been resolved, will it at some point become OK to respect the English / British flag and / or anthem..?

    What if they change their flag/anthem, to a new one that didn't do the oppressing, would that make it acceptable to respect them? Would NorthStars be able to bear to hear it in glorious surround sound...?

    I'm just playing devils advocate obviously.


  • #286
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    katydid wrote: »
    I'm calling him an eejit and a twerp because he is one. He pretends to be principled, but he has no problem taking the no doubt handsome salary the ENGLISH club pays him. Millionaire, hardly; WBA are not Man. United or Real Madrid. Let's keep it real here.

    No need for soundbytes either. No need for sound of any kind. Just turning around with your teammates and your hosts and showing a bit of respect. The Yanks don't a lot to thank the British Army for either, even if it was a couple of hundred years ago...

    He's on about 35,000 a week. You do the maths. He's most certainly a millionaire. Let's keep it real here.


  • #287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    If he considers the flag oppressive, he must also consider the country and it's people oppressive, at the end of the day a flag is just a price of fabric but it represents a country and it's citizens. Why would he want to live and play professional football in a country he considers to be representative of oppression?

    The flag represents many things, including but not limited to the oppression of his community. He embraces the positive aspects of the country (i.e. a place to develop his career) while refusing to embrace the negative connotations. He's not making a statement against the British people.


  • #288
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    You do realise that McClean is actually born into the country he is now making his fortune in? He didn't emigrate anywhere. The flag fetishists don't seem to understand that.

    Should I send you a map of the "British Isles" perhaps?

    Is he not an Irish citizen though?


  • #289
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Would NorthStars be able to bear to hear it in glorious surround sound...?

    I'm just playing devils advocate obviously.

    Actually I quite like the 'Jerusalem' anthem, even though it is English.
    God save the queen is quite triumphilist, out of touch and out of time.


  • #290
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong here, coz Katy is definitely out on her own in her views.... But...

    Ali took a stance at a point in time.

    McClean is taking his stance at this point in time. If (please God) in another 25, 50 or 100 years everything has (miraculously) been resolved, will it at some point become OK to respect the English / British flag and / or anthem..?

    What if they change their flag/anthem, to a new one that didn't do the oppressing, would that make it acceptable to respect them? Would NorthStars be able to bear to hear it in glorious surround sound...?

    I'm just playing devils advocate obviously.

    Wisdom and acceptance might arive in his 30's.


  • #291
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Noblong wrote: »
    Wisdom and acceptance might arive in his 30's.

    That would help a lot of posters here too......


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  • #292
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Actually I quite like the 'Jerusalem' anthem, even though it is English.
    God save the queen is quite triumphalist, out of touch and out of time.

    Most anthems are triumphalist its their very nature.

    As for McClean well he plays in Britain for an English club, is a paid a handsome mainly thanks to English tv viewers and sponsors of which 40% is paid to a British exchequer which spends 2% of its national income funding the British military whom he presumably despises.


  • #293
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    As for McClean well he plays in Britain for an English club, is a paid a handsome mainly thanks to English tv viewers and sponsors of which 40% is paid to a British exchequer which spends 2% of its national income funding the British military whom he presumably despises.

    Very black and white that statement.
    Try colour some time.
    That, or say what you really think of Irish people with a republican mindset.


  • #294
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The flag represents many things, including but not limited to the oppression of his community. He embraces the positive aspects of the country (i.e. a place to develop his career) while refusing to embrace the negative connotations. He's not making a statement against the British people.

    And this is the fundamental point on which we disagree.

    Fully agree the flag represents lots of things, and quite importantly, the things it represents may differ depending on the setting. In this setting it simply represents "here is an English soccer team". It certainly doesn't represent the Brit army or anything they did, are doing, or will do.

    But in that situation he has only 2 choices; stand and respect the flag (and risk being seen as respecting EVERYTHING it stands for), or turn away and disrespect the flag in quite an obvious way, so that it will obviously be assumed you disrespect everything it stands for.

    By choosing the latter, he has invited the trouble on himself.

    It just makes no more sense to me, in this setting, than him saying he won't play wearing shoelaces because the Brit army had shoelaces.


  • #295
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,734 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    barneystinson wrote: »

    But in that situation he has only 2 choices; stand and respect the flag (and risk being seen as respecting EVERYTHING it stands for), or turn away and disrespect the flag in quite an obvious way, so that it will obviously be assumed you disrespect everything it stands for
    .

    I don't agree with this. I do not think, given McClean's public history regarding his position on the British Army and Northern Ireland, that there was any possibility or risk of people thinking that he respects everything the flag stands for, if he simply stood there and waited for the anthem to be over without doing what he did.


  • #296
    Irelandcool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 266 ✭✭Irelandcool


    bit of an overreaction to this I think I mean its not like he bit anyone like Luis Suarez.

    Its amusing to me how some people in britain views against the irish are so racist that they pretty much come off as facist.


  • #297
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Irelandcool wrote: »
    bit of an overreaction to this I think I mean its not like he bit anyone like Luis Suarez.

    Its amusing to me how some people in britain views against the irish are so racist that they pretty much come off as facist.

    What is a facist? Is that someone who's racist against faces, or what?


  • #298
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    osarusan wrote: »
    I don't agree with this. I do not think, given McClean's public history regarding his position on the British Army and Northern Ireland, that there was any possibility or risk of people thinking that he respects everything the flag stands for, if he simply stood there and waited for the anthem to be over without doing what he did.

    You're nitpicking- my point was that it's the worst case scenario from his perspective, that he might be assumed, by facing a flag at a soccer match, while a band plays a song, to support the British army (quite the leap alright).


  • #299
    B17G
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭B17G


    katydid wrote: »
    It's not fanaticism to be annoyed when someone insults your national anthem.

    But yet you had no problem insulting certain members of British royal family, just as much an institution in the UK as their national anthem.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95335698&postcount=7029


  • #300
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,734 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    barneystinson wrote: »
    You're nitpicking- my point was that it's the worst case scenario from his perspective, that he might be assumed, by facing a flag while a band plays a song, to support the British army (quite the leap alright).
    Not nit-picking your point - supporting it if anything, as there have been a couple of posts suggesting similar to what you said (another even made a vague suggestion about his family back in NI suffering) but my point is that McClean's views are well-known and there is no way people would interpret a lack of protest on his part as any kind of sign of approval, so it isn't much of an argument to support/justify what McClean did.


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  • #301
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,697 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Got to thinking about the internet hate mob that get riled up about anything these days, this case, and the Mohammed cartoons.

    Many of the mob will 100% stand behind the right of people to ridicule Mohammed, even though they know it offends, disrespects and insults Muslims all over the world. They have been told this but still they want to defend their freedom to still offend.

    The very same people now want McClean crucified for not facing their flag. He is not allowed the freedom to do whatever he sees fit, because it offends them.

    Sounds like double standards to me.

    Either you agree that people are allowed to stand by their convictions and beliefs, or you don't. Why are you allowed to do something which offends, but someone else isn't?


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