The English and their weird fascist nationalism again.

katydid

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I very much doubt that was in his contract.

Not everything one is expected to do in a job is listed in a contract.

Carlos Orange

blueser wrote: »

Generally, they (or "we", seeing as I'm English) don't. The only times I can think of when GSTQ is played at club game level is at the two domestic cup finals, the Community Shield pre-season game and possibly the Football League play-off finals. Probably because they're "showpiece" games and also maybe because they're played at Wembley.

This match was in the US and I gather they love to play anthems every chance they can. I wonder what he did during the American anthem.

Moonriver99

Moonriver99 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned,he's hypocritical it's the fact that he can take a paycheck and play on a English team. if he wants to have some sort of principles, Why is he being so selective? The poppy and the turning away from the flag is what he does but he would never ever turn his back on the money. I respect people who have principles and morals but if you are gonna do that then stop playing for an English team. Think it's time people moved on. Any hatred should be at the people who were awful in the troubles. People today cannot be held responsible by their fellow country men's actions.

Do you think it was right that Muhammad Ali's boxing licence was revoked during the prime years of his career? Is he a hypocrite for refusing to fight for the country he was born and raised in, and the one in which he earned the vast majority of his money?

tomwaterford

katydid wrote: »

Not everything one is expected to do in a job is listed in a contract.

So he did nothing wrong in other words?

katydid

NIMAN wrote: »

Very very rarely.This is the 1st I've heard of.

It was in America. The Yanks are into that kind of thing, they play their national anthem at the drop of a hat.

katydid

tomwaterford wrote: »

So he did nothing wrong in other words?

Legally, no.

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

As I said elsewhere, I don't really care what he does, but if his feelings towards the anthem (and/or the country it is the anthem of) are so strong and so close to the surface that he can't make himself do the same as everybody else and just wait for it to be over, I do wonder how he manages to survive day to day in the UK.

Maybe he can survive day to day just fine in the UK because if anyone asks him about it he can provide concrete reasons underlying his actions (similar to his letter to Wigan fans). Other than that I would imagine he would blend in just fine.

QuinDixie

QuinDixie wrote: »

He has a problem with the God save our Queen, but has no problem with paying taxes to Her Majestys Revenue & Customs.
Money talks and Bull**** walks.

Such the case when you are living in occupied land. Americans did likewise but still had the American revolution.

If he stayed in Derry he'd still be paying taxes to the same HMRC.

blueser

psinno wrote: »

This match was in the US and I gather they love to play anthems every chance they can. I wonder what he did during the American anthem.

Yep; I realise that. I was replying to someone who asked how often they play the national anthem at club games, and I assumed the "they" was a reference to the English. As for the Americans, theydo love to play their national anthem. It seems to get an airing at just about every sporting occasion (gridiron, basketball, baseball, soccer etc etc).

Smiles35

He's going to be sacked. And ruin the peace process.

youreadthat

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not hypocritical to earn a living in a country whose history you don't fully embrace while remaining loyal to your own country.

If I worked in America but took part in a demonstration against something like the Iraq war it wouldn't be hypocritical. It would rightly be viewed as a personal stance in a free country.

It's massively hypocritical to pick and choose bits of states to "avoid" because they symbolise something you hate. Somehow the currency, the very land that comprises that state, and its people are less representative of that state than a coloured cloth and a sequence of composed sounds? Reeks of growing up with pure hatred and being poorly educated emotionally, pouring the hatred into the wrong simplistic things (this happens all too often and is why the world is always screwed). That or just having a typical fair weather morality that disappears when the £$£$£$ come rolling by.

katydid

blueser wrote: »

Yep; I realise that. I was replying to someone who asked how often they play the national anthem at club games, and I assumed the "they" was a reference to the English. As for the Americans, theydo love to play their national anthem. It seems to get an airing at just about every sporting occasion (gridiron, basketball, baseball, soccer etc etc).

I know nothing about sport, and I don't really care. The only thing about this story is that he plays for a club based in England. The club was in America for a game, the English national anthem was played, and he showed disrespect not only to his club, the country he works in AND the hosts. It was childish and rude.

tomwaterford

katydid wrote: »

I know nothing about sport, and I don't really care. The only thing about this story is that he plays for a club based in England. The club was in America for a game, the English national anthem was played, and he showed disrespect not only to his club, the country he works in AND the hosts. It was childish and rude.

How did it disrespect the hosts :pac:


Is it not better for him to do this than to fake a respect for it (the anthem)??

Berserker

I don't get it. The chap stood for it in Lansdowne road a few weeks ago. If he has such an issue with England then why didn't he take the offer he got from the USA instead of West Brom? I know some West Brom fans and they will not take this well.

tomwaterford wrote: »

How often do they play national anthems at club soccer matches?

In England they don't unless it is a cup final or similar. However, they play anthems (US or Canada, if necessary) at games in the USA. I suspect that is why the anthem was played at this.

Lemming

tomwaterford wrote: »

How did it disrespect the hosts :pac:


Is it not better for him to do this than to fake a respect for it (the anthem)??

The Americans are big into the whole flag thing. What he did on-pitch would have been really obvious to them in a manner that would be considered taboo for an american to do, i.e. culturally "not the done thing" and considered a bit of an insult to the hosts.

katydid

tomwaterford wrote: »

How did it disrespect the hosts :pac:


Is it not better for him to do this than to fake a respect for it (the anthem)??

You don't think it's disrespectful to be a member of a visiting team, and to show disrespect to the anthem of the country his team comes from? It's very bad form.

No one is asking him to prostrate himself in front of the English flag and sing the anthem. Just to stand quietly and show some dignity and SELF-respect, if nothing else. Never mind respect for his team mates

Dirty Dingus McGee

katydid wrote: »

You don't think it's disrespectful to be a member of a visiting team, and to show disrespect to the anthem of the country his team comes from? It's very bad form.

No one is asking him to prostrate himself in front of the English flag and sing the anthem. Just to stand quietly and show some dignity and SELF-respect, if nothing else. Never mind respect for his team mates

He did stand quietly.

Would it not be more insulting to give a really insincere display and gaze up at flag that has no meaning to him.

The Americans forget that a lot of the players (the majority in fact) on English soccer teams are not english, perhaps they should have respect for them and not force someone else's anthem on them.

youreadthat

youreadthat wrote: »

It's massively hypocritical to pick and choose bits of states to "avoid" because they symbolise something you hate. Somehow the currency, the very land that comprises that state, and its people are less representative of that state than a coloured cloth and a sequence of composed sounds? Reeks of growing up with pure hatred and being poorly educated emotionally, pouring the hatred into the wrong simplistic things (this happens all too often and is why the world is always screwed). That or just having a typical fair weather morality that disappears when the £$£$£$ come rolling by.

It's not a binary thing. Some things are more emblematic of a nation's military (e.g. the poppy, the national anthem) than others (the denomination of currency, the red buses). I might disagree with something like the Irish bank bailout but I would still work in Ireland for an Irish company. Just how purely do you hold your own beliefs?

Berserker

tomwaterford wrote: »

How did it disrespect the hosts :pac:


Is it not better for him to do this than to fake a respect for it (the anthem)??

Have you ever lived or spent much time in the USA? Anthems and protocol are a major thing there. In school you have to stand for the anthem and pledge allegiance to the flag every morning. He won't get an offer to play in the USA after this stunt. But for West Brom he would have had to go there this season.

katydid

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He did stand quietly.

Would it not be more insulting to give a really insincere display and gaze up at flag that has no meaning to him.

The Americans forget that a lot of the players (the majority in fact) on English soccer teams are not english, perhaps they should have respect for them and not force someone else's anthem on them.

He didn't stand quietly in the same direction as everyone else. No one suggests he should have gazed in adoration; he could have looked into the middle distance.

It's irrelevant to the Americans or anyone else what nationality the players on English teams are. The teams are from England.

Lemming

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He did stand quietly.

Would it not be more insulting to give a really insincere display and gaze up at flag that has no meaning to him.

No. What he chose to do was turn away from the flag of the country from which his team hails. He turned towards it and when realising what was about to happen turned away again, if you've seen the video footage. So what he did was very deliberate. And as I've already said, extremely obvious to a nation that is very sensitive towards conduct around all things flag-related. That's not to mention how it might have been perceived amongst his team-mates. Suffice to say Tony Pulis took a dim view of it and had words with him post-match on his behaviour.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Berserker wrote: »

Have you ever lived or spent much time in the USA? Anthems and protocol are a major thing there. In school you have to stand for the anthem and pledge allegiance to the flag every morning. He won't get an offer to play in the USA after this stunt. But for West Brom he would have had to go there this season.

I know and it's a complete load of bollocks.Before Shamu's show in Seaworld we had to stand for the national anthem or something similar and applaud anyone in the audience who was in the army.

it was really nice way of influencing susceptible youngsters into joining the armed forces.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

He won't get an offer to play in the USA after this stunt. But for West Brom he would have had to go there this season.

You think professional footballers really want to play in the USA? It's regarded as a backward step professionally and a bit of a career old folks home, the place footballers go to for a top up on the pension before hanging the boots up.

Anyway this won't matter a jot compared with his on-field exploits. You really think a US team won't hire him after this, as if that's an important factor? You clearly don't know anything about professional sport. Results matter, nothing else.

anncoates

He's from a nationalist part of Derry and if he doesn't want to acknowledge the anthem, that's fair enough, especially as it's not a national game and he plays for Ireland. The fact he makes his living in England is neither here nor there

That said, if an English born player playing for an Irish club or for Ireland made a similar stand about the Irish national anthem, there'd be murder here too.

katydid

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I know and it's a complete load of bollocks.Before Shamu's show in Seaworld we had to stand for the national anthem or something similar and applaud anyone in the audience who was in the army.

it was really nice way of influencing susceptible youngsters into joining the armed forces.

That happened me at a rodeo in Cody, Wyoming. It was in the middle of the invasion of Iraq, and after they played the national anthem, they wanted us to clap for all the brave boys and girls in Eyerak. I stood, but I certainly didn't clap.

It's no wonder they're all brainwashed over there.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Lemming wrote: »

No. What he chose to do was turn away from the flag of the country from which his team hails. He turned towards it and when realising what was about to happen turned away again, if you've seen the video footage. So what he did was very deliberate. And as I've already said, extremely obvious to a nation that is very sensitive towards conduct around all things flag-related. That's not to mention how it might have been perceived amongst his team-mates.

So he was originally standing facing the camera.He then turned to follow what his team mates were doing then realised what it was a decided he shouldn't do it and so stayed the way he was originally standing.

Why should he insincerely stand and face the english flag.Thats far more insulting than what he actually did.

osarusan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Would it not be more insulting to give a really insincere display and gaze up at flag that has no meaning to him.

Is there no middle ground between the above and what he did?

He could have faced the same way as everybody else and just waited for it to be over with a bored expression on his face. Treat it like it was an irrelevance to him (as it was to every other player on the pitch too, i'd say).

I don't think anybody is under the illusion that he has any kind of respect for the flag, so I don't think he need worry about people feeling he has insulted the flag by making a pretense of respect.

Berserker

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I know and it's a complete load of bollocks.Before Shamu's show in Seaworld we had to stand for the national anthem or something similar and applaud anyone in the audience who was in the army.

it was really nice way of influencing susceptible youngsters into joining the armed forces.

I have had some howlers. A saxophonist's interpretation in MSG was one to remember. To be fair, the NYers are fairly easy going, they shout during it. I lived in Texas also which was a different kettle of fish. Having to stand a queue while active military personnel, fit as fiddles I'd imagine, board a flight is a pain also but when in Rome ....

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

That said, if an English born player playing for an Irish club or for Ireland made a similar stand about the Irish national anthem, there'd be murder here too.

Yes I agree, but only if the Irish military had done similar repression and killing against that players community. In which case most people would understand their reasons and probably respect those reasons.

katydid

anncoates wrote: »

He's from a nationalist part of Derry and if he doesn't want to acknowledge the anthem, that's fair enough, especially as it's not a national game and he plays for Ireland. The fact he makes his living in England is neither here nor there

That said, if an English born player playing for an Irish club or for Ireland made a similar stand about the Irish national anthem, there'd be murder here too.

He doesn't have to "acknowledge" it. Just show the respect of not turning away from the flag while it's playing.