Are Irish food and restaurants underrated

meeeeh

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is the one thing I don't quite understand; I have heard the same from some other foreigners as well. To me, fruit seems absolutely fine - in some cases, the import approach (unavoidable, as you say, due to climate constraints) works very well. Some fruit is simply imported all across Europe - Bananas, to say.

I have one example above all: watermelon. In Italy, it's a local produce - so it's only available roughly May-September; Yet, when you buy one 50% chances are that, when you open it up, it's essentially pink-whitish inside and tastes more or less like a cucumber. Here, in seven years I never, not once, stumbled into one of the imported watermelons that wasn't fiery red and extremely tasty. I am not sure how they do it, but clearly it works; In all fairness, there is a rumor going around in Italy that the very reason for the prevalence of under-ripe or just horrible watermelons is that the good ones...are exported!

I recently tried some honeydew melon (don't remember where it came from...Holland maybe?) and it was fine, as normally are most apples (gala, pink lady and granny smith). Other things could be improved - it's hard to find decent pears, and other apple varieties aren't that great, but all in all I can't complai!

Watermelon here is one of the fruits that actually frustrate me the most. I am addicted to the thing but it is so hard to get a nice one. I don't know about Italy but used to live next door and watermelons were immensely better. Especially the ones that the local Albanian fruit seller/arms dealer/ drug smuggler was selling. You could easily get something very ripe and weighing a stone. I am not sure where he was getting them from, I actually don't know where he was getting anything from but peaches, plums, apricots, pears, nectarines were all better and still are.

cargen

H3llR4iser wrote:

I have one example above all: watermelon. In Italy, it's a local produce - so it's only available roughly May-September; Yet, when you buy one 50% chances are that, when you open it up, it's essentially pink-whitish inside and tastes more or less like a cucumber. Here, in seven years I never, not once, stumbled into one of the imported watermelons that wasn't fiery red and extremely tasty. I am not sure how they do it, but clearly it works; In all fairness, there is a rumor going around in Italy that the very reason for the prevalence of under-ripe or just horrible watermelons is that the good ones...are exported!

You must be from the north of Italy :-)

dr.fuzzenstein

Wine is definitely a complete impossibility here. Whatever plonck would cost a fiver in France, Spain or Italy will cost 20 here and the cold, damp climate renders it into vinegar.

whiskeyman

A fair point that must be noted is that Irish restaurants have far more legal / hygiene regulatory aspects they need to adhere to as far as I'm aware than many of our foreign neighbours.
- Someone in the business may be able to clarify this better, but I had a friend who used to be in the business who always mention this whenever I went on about places abroad.
This undoubtedly puts a larger financial burden on places here, and probably jacks up the price.
I've eaten some amazing meals in places that pretty much just resembled someone's house abroad and other eateries had very questionable facilities, but the food offering was fantastic!

gaiscioch

As for "creativity", I'd personally prefer if many of these people had a profound lack of "creativity". In particular, if I could just get a ham sandwich when I order it, I'd be a happy person. For the past 10 plus years this has been an impossible request to fulfil in every single café I have ordered it in Ireland. Impossible.

They just have to throw a wide range of rabbit food, crisps, salads and even salad dressings on to the plate. I do not want them. I never ordered them. I do not like things like salad dressing - which is why I will never order it. That is my personal preference. To me, it is the height of bad manners to disregard that and impose one's own preference on me. Even when I go to the trouble of clarifying that by "ham sandwich" I do not mean salad, lettuce, tomato, crisps and emphasise the words ham, brown bread, butter and nothing else - they still throw the stuff on. They are on automatic pilot, and no matter how eloquent or how lucid is my request it plainly does not sink in. I then have to ask them to remove them, and they get a tissue and do so leaving streaks of salad dressing on the plate. Incredibly, and consistently, infuriating. It's a battle every time. It shouldn't be. It should not be.

No matter what anybody says, throwing all this stuff on my plate is not a sign of "growing sophistication". It's not. It's a patronising rejection of my personal choice - which is for the simple ham sandwich which I could get without these "added extras" once when we all apparently had "peasant food". Imposing these things is nouveau something or other, and an abject pain in the arse.

I'd rather they charge me €5.50 or €6 for a simple sandwich than throw that stuff on to make it look like I got better value.

pwurple

the beer revolu wrote: »

In Cork, apart from O Mahony's and O Flynn's I can't think of another interesting butchers.

I really don't want to drag the thread OT, I have always had an interest in meat (ooh ) ... I could list another ten or so around cork easily.

I do know that there are people who think interesting cuts of meat are pure faffery, and just want 6 chicken breasts for a fiver. And if they are pumped full of water and antibiotics, all the better looking in the plastic wrapping. There is far more demand for that, than good butchery. That's why you see more of it. It's where the money lies.

quaalude

I saw this yesterday and thought of this thread:



The food in the Beggar's Bush is, like most pub grub, overpriced, incinerated ballast for those who went out after work "for one" but then stayed out drinking - but calling frozen deep-fried chicken nuggets, sausages and chips a "tasting plate" is unbelievable.

MissFlitworth

whiskeyman wrote: »

A fair point that must be noted is that Irish restaurants have far more legal / hygiene regulatory aspects they need to adhere to as far as I'm aware than many of our foreign neighbours.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, true. The cost of running a food business here is pretty damn high. High minimum wage, high rates, insurance can be verrrrry high (especially if you've ever had to claim off it). So a lot of the time you're better off doing 'what works' (as in tossing another box of cuisine de france into the oven) than what you're really like to do.

pwurple

quaalude wrote: »

I saw this yesterday and thought of this thread:

The food in the Beggar's Bush is, like most pub grub, overpriced, incinerated ballast for those who went out after work "for one" but then stayed out drinking - but calling frozen deep-fried chicken nuggets, sausages and chips a "tasting plate" is unbelievable.

That's one of those chippers masquerading as a restaurant...

testaccount123

gaiscioch wrote: »

As for "creativity", I'd personally prefer if many of these people had a profound lack of "creativity". In particular, if I could just get a ham sandwich when I order it, I'd be a happy person. For the past 10 plus years this has been an impossible request to fulfil in every single café I have ordered it in Ireland. Impossible.

They just have to throw a wide range of rabbit food, crisps, salads and even salad dressings on to the plate. I do not want them. I never ordered them. I do not like things like salad dressing - which is why I will never order it. That is my personal preference. To me, it is the height of bad manners to disregard that and impose one's own preference on me. Even when I go to the trouble of clarifying that by "ham sandwich" I do not mean salad, lettuce, tomato, crisps and emphasise the words ham, brown bread, butter and nothing else - they still throw the stuff on. They are on automatic pilot, and no matter how eloquent or how lucid is my request it plainly does not sink in. I then have to ask them to remove them, and they get a tissue and do so leaving streaks of salad dressing on the plate. Incredibly, and consistently, infuriating. It's a battle every time. It shouldn't be. It should not be.

No matter what anybody says, throwing all this stuff on my plate is not a sign of "growing sophistication". It's not. It's a patronising rejection of my personal choice - which is for the simple ham sandwich which I could get without these "added extras" once when we all apparently had "peasant food". Imposing these things is nouveau something or other, and an abject pain in the arse.

I'd rather they charge me €5.50 or €6 for a simple sandwich than throw that stuff on to make it look like I got better value.

I cant work out if this post is a joke or not...?

Alun

testaccount123 wrote: »

I cant work out if this post is a joke or not...?

I stopped reading at "rabbit food" ...

munchkin_utd

MissFlitworth wrote: »

This is, to the best of my knowledge, true. The cost of running a food business here is pretty damn high. High minimum wage, high rates, insurance can be verrrrry high (especially if you've ever had to claim off it). So a lot of the time you're better off doing 'what works' (as in tossing another box of cuisine de france into the oven) than what you're really like to do.

to be honest, the insurance is probably the biggest thing thats a uniquely irish problem and it boils down to lack of any initiative by politicans to fix the issue.

I used to work in an industrial company in Clones which sold its products world wide in a very competitive sector and employed over 250 people, which in a regional town is a massive employer.
It was always treading water and not making massive profits, but was nevertheless carving a niche in more specialised better paying products.
What happened then, a few accidents happened with massive payouts and suddenly the cost of insurance forced the owners to shut up shop.

Abroad payouts arent so high, meaning folks arent as likely to claim, so sortof an opposite self fulfiling prophesy that theres less smaller claims . Compare that to Ireland where the claims are so high that folks proactively look to figure a way of getting that there pot of gold.

But its essentially an artificially created problem by lack of guidance by the legislators to limit payouts - and thats not a general "cost of living" thing. Thats a fixable problem that the folks of the 26 counties keep electing governments to NOT solve on their behalf.

quaalude

testaccount123 wrote: »

I cant work out if this post is a joke or not...?

Why would it be a joke? A sandwich is a sandwich - not a sandwich and a load of other random things not explained on the menu.

I'm not keen on unasked for extras either - I ordered falafel and side salad in The Black Sheep on Capel Street and it came with an (undisclosed) huge plateful of crisps.

If I wanted crisps I would have ordered them - unless Hunky Dorys are a traditional Middle Eastern accompaniment I'm unaware of.

(That was the last time I had pub grub actually - a year ago, and never again).

testaccount123

quaalude wrote: »

Why would it be a joke?

You dont think its odd that someone would complain that a ham sandwich should be two slices of bread and a slice of ham and nothing else? Is it a 1950s GAA match we are at or a cafe/restaurant?

This goes a long way to explaining why cafes and restaurants, especially outside Dublin/Cork are so unadventurous - they have to cater to people like this....

Uncle_moe

testaccount123 wrote: »

You dont think its odd that someone would complain that a ham sandwich should be two slices of bread and a slice of ham and nothing else?

I don't think it's odd. You order a ham sandwich, isn't that what you should expect to get?
Earlier in the thread people spoke about the abundance of great ingredients and produce in Ireland so if that's the case then something as humble as a simple ham sandwich could really be excellent. I wouldn't complain if I got good fresh baked bread with good irish butter and a few slices of quality smoked irish ham. Is that unadventurous? Adding more 'exotic' ingredients to things doesn't necessarily make them better. In fact most of the time it is an attempt to cover something up.

Toto Wolfcastle

If the menu says 'ham sandwich' and the sandwich arrives with other things in it, then it would be pretty annoying if all you wanted was a ham sandwich. Or if they did list all the fillings and they ignored your request for just ham. I agree with Uncle_moe. A ham sandwich done well is a thing of beauty.

I hate mayonnaise and mayonnaise based sauces. You'd be surprised at how many places don't mention on their menus that there is mayo on their sandwiches. They list all the other fillings but leave out the mayo. Same with burgers. They list all the toppings but don't mention the sauce. It's pretty annoying to have to send the food back. Now I just ask when I'm ordering if there's mayo on my sandwich. It's easier that way.

katydid

Uncle_moe wrote: »

I don't think it's odd. You order a ham sandwich, isn't that what you should expect to get?
Earlier in the thread people spoke about the abundance of great ingredients and produce in Ireland so if that's the case then something as humble as a simple ham sandwich could really be excellent. I wouldn't complain if I got good fresh baked bread with good irish butter and a few slices of quality smoked irish ham. Is that unadventurous? Adding more 'exotic' ingredients to things doesn't necessarily make them better. In fact most of the time it is an attempt to cover something up.

I agree with all of your post except the last sentence.

testaccount123

Good grief, you are like children. Do you want the cafe to cut off your crusts too? Why go to a cafe if all you want is processed ham between two slices of bread? You know you can do it yourself in about 5 seconds for a fraction of the cost?

Its fairly obvious that its the clientelle that is holding Irish restaurants and cafes back. Anyone does anything even mildly different from serving 'tea and hang sandwiches' and they are decried as 'hipster' - see this thread for reference

quaalude

testaccount123 wrote: »

Good grief, you are like children. Do you want the cafe to cut off your crusts too? Why go to a cafe if all you want is processed ham between two slices of bread? You know you can do it yourself in about 5 seconds for a fraction of the cost?

Its fairly obvious that its the clientelle that is holding Irish restaurants and cafes back. Anyone does anything even mildly different from serving 'tea and hang sandwiches' and they are decried as 'hipster' - see this thread for reference

That's the opposite of what most people have been saying.

MissFlitworth

testaccount123 wrote: »

Good grief, you are like children. Do you want the cafe to cut off your crusts too?

Testaccount123 - if you can't disagree with people without being rude to them this isn't going to be a good place for you to post. Watch your tone & the words you use, please.

stefanovich

enda1 wrote: »

It's a regional thing, but in Normandy and Brittany, the quality of dairy is way better than in Ireland. It simply is.

Cheese perhaps. Not milk. It's all UHT crap in France.

MissFlitworth

stefanovich wrote: »

Cheese perhaps. Not milk. It's all UHT crap in France.

H3llR4iser

cargen wrote: »

You must be from the north of Italy :-)

Nope, southern Italy...and one of my childhood "traumas" was the summertime ritual of the watermelon:(.

The real problem is, as usual, human - opposite to most other fruit watermelons stop ripening as soon as their connection to the plant is severed. Most farmers down there are in a rush to get the product to the market and make money and just harvest whenever themelons look ok.

So when we used to go to the fruit and veg store and got one of these 10-15kg heavy behemoths, as children both me and my brother would be all happy in anticipation for the treat.

Then we went home, watermelon cracked in half and...huge letdown as it was barely pinkish inside and tasted like water - no hint of melon there! I kid you not, this used to happen most of the times - the ratio of "watermelon" vs "watermelon shaped cucumber" was something like 1:3.

One of the funniest things you can see in Italy during summertime (provided you aren't too busy sweating your life away) still is the "watermelon tapping contest": people getting around the green fruits and starting to tap and knock on their skin, checking for the "hollow sound" in a desperate attempt to avoid the cucumber-tasting ones.

To a foreigner, that must definitely look like the heat is doing much more damage than expected

pwurple

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Then we went home, watermelon cracked in half and...huge letdown as it was barely pinkish inside and tasted like water - no hint of melon there! I kid you not, this used to happen most of the times - the ratio of "watermelon" vs "watermelon shaped cucumber" was something like 1:3.

Sounds like the strawberry-shaped turnips you get here a lot of the time.

Uncle_moe

opposite to most other fruit watermelons stop ripening as soon as their connection to the plant is severed.

This is actually the case with nearly all fruits, in fact, I think bananas are the only fruit that can ripen once picked. People assume most fruits ripen once picked but its actually cell deterioration and the increase in sweetness is due to water loss and concentration of sugars. Hence all the terrible fruit in Ireland that's been picked 6 months before it hits our shelves.

dr.fuzzenstein

Uncle_moe wrote: »

I don't think it's odd. You order a ham sandwich, isn't that what you should expect to get?
Earlier in the thread people spoke about the abundance of great ingredients and produce in Ireland so if that's the case then something as humble as a simple ham sandwich could really be excellent. I wouldn't complain if I got good fresh baked bread with good irish butter and a few slices of quality smoked irish ham. Is that unadventurous? Adding more 'exotic' ingredients to things doesn't necessarily make them better. In fact most of the time it is an attempt to cover something up.

OK, two things. Some people want a plain sandwich, bread, ham, nothing else, a lot of Irish people hate any kind of sauce or dressing, they've just never seen it. And they won't eat what they don't know. Not my cup of tea, but of someone wants it, why not?
Personally I would like a bit of lettuce, tomato, red onion, dressing or mayo, it's just my preference.
So saying that only one is right and the other is wrong is a bit silly. Isn't it nice to have the choice? I don't mind if you want a dry sandwich, but yous shouldn't mind if I don't. Or if you do, tough titties.
Also, any sandwich bar (there is a particular Irish one that I loathe, because it's wanky, pretentious, overpriced food, but even that one) has a sandwich counter where you can walk up and say "two slices of bread and a slice of ham please" and the order should come close. If you are mortally offended by a few lettuce leaves and crisps, you must be a very precious little snowflake! ;)

Now on the bit in bold, that is where it all falls down, no matter what your choice of toppings and condiments.
To expect freshly baked bread from the local baker, covered in butter fresh from the churn that was only moments ago between the thighs of the farmer's daughter, covered in sumptuous slices of mouthwatering ham right from the smoke house, yes, that is a nice thought, but you're dreaming.
99.9999999% of sandwich places will get a 2.5 kg tub of Margarine (it's never butter), rip open a packet of sterilized industrial Styrofoam (i.e. Irish "bread", baps are even worse) and cover it with reformed ham product offcuts with no more than 20% added water. If you think this is different in any place you care to mention, you're smoking something.

If you want that kind of experience, you will not find it in ANY eatery in Ireland.
So why worry about anything else if they can't even get the hang sanger right? It's all downhill from there.

the beer revolu

This thread reminds me of a thread from 2013 about traditional Irish food.
I wrote a pretty harsh satirical(ish) post about "traditional" Irish food.
It upset a few people but I thought it was pretty funny. It touches on a lot of things that have been said here.

Traditional Irish dishes as found in wonderful establishments the length and breadth of the country:


Lasagne (traditionally served with garlic bread and at least one type of potato - preferably two - and if outside of lunchtime, a side of boiled veg.)

Chicken goujons. Internationally sourced boneless, tasteless chicken breast coated in orange stuff called bread crumbs and deep fried in slightly too old oil. Served with orange dusted potato wedges (also available in many garages) and a mayonnaise based sauce and/or sweet chili sauce.

Chicken Curry. More international chicken breast served in a bright yellow, highly salted sauce with some onion and pineapple. Traditionally served with long grain white rice and frozen chips.
This traditional dish is, in modern times, is often ousted by the green Thai chicken curry which tasted much the same but is green and usually is finished with a good dollop of dairy cream.

Famous chicken wings.There are many establishments in Ireland which are so well known for their chicken wings, that they are legitimately called famous on the menu. These wings are usually deep fried and can be coated with anything from BBQ sauce to sweet chili sauce and often served with a white coloured dipping sauce.

The traditional Irish breakfast. This is a little bit similar to an English breakfast, a Scottish breakfast, a Welsh breakfast and an Ulster breakfast.
A lot similar.

Bangers and mash with onion gravy. Traditionally prepared by a microwave technician. This dish consist of cheapish, fat sausages that have been pre over cooked, slightly lumpy mashed potato and a salty, brown, glossy gravy with some fried onion - all must be served lava hot fresh from the microwave. It is a little known fact that sausages were invented by the Irish - as were burgers, all known stews and most soups.


Pretty much any traditional Irish dish should be served with potatoes cooked in the oven with liberal amounts of cream, cheese and a little garlic.

Also every dish, except perhaps breakfast, should be liberally garnished with table salt - (this is similar to sea salt but has a traditional chemically flavour and some additives). You might be tempted to taste your food before adding this final garnish but doing so will make you stand out like a meal without two types of spuds and veg.

The Irish also invented coleslaw - it means salad.

testaccount123

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

To expect freshly baked bread from the local baker, covered in butter fresh from the churn that was only moments ago between the thighs of the farmer's daughter, covered in sumptuous slices of mouthwatering ham right from the smoke house, yes, that is a nice thought, but you're dreaming.

...

If you want that kind of experience, you will not find it in ANY eatery in Ireland.

There are plenty of sandwich spots in Dublin using their own bread or bread sourced locally and using quality Irish meats. Bonne Poulet Femme in Avoca, Deli 147, The Green Door, Pepper Pot, Brother Hubbard, Sister Sadie, Ugly Duckling and Oxmantown for starters.

They'd totally freak out the hang sanger brigade though.

dr.fuzzenstein

the beer revolu wrote: »

This thread reminds me of a thread from 2013 about traditional Irish food.
I wrote a pretty harsh satirical(ish) post about "traditional" Irish food.
It upset a few people but I thought it was pretty funny. It touches on a lot of things that have been said here.

I like your username. Beer "culture" in this country is probably the only thing worse than food. My local serves Guinness, Budweiser and Heineken.
There is a Carlsberg tap, but that has not been used in 2 years and a pint from that could possibly kill you. And then there are the little bottles of red wine filled with unidentifiable redish liquid of indeterminate and questionable origin. Costing 6 or 7 Euro of course.
The food menu consists of Tayots and those little bags of prawn and bacon flavoured corn-based snacks with an expiry date of 2165.

testaccount123 wrote: »

There are plenty of sandwich spots in Dublin using their own bread or bread sourced locally and using quality Irish meats. Bonne Poulet Femme in Avoca, Deli 147, The Green Door, Pepper Pot, Brother Hubbard, Sister Sadie, Ugly Duckling and Oxmantown for starters.

They'd totally freak out the hang sanger brigade though.

Positive examples are always welcome
Any known good ones in Limerick? Chawkes filling station is not bad as far as standard Sammich counters go, oh wait, there's La Cucina near UL, but they're Italian. That's why they do sandwiches that look like this:



Which would cause the hang-sanger lover to assume the fetal position in a corner and rock back and forth.

the beer revolu

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I like your username. Beer "culture" in this country is probably the only thing worse than food. My local serves Guinness, Budweiser and Heineken.
There is a Carlsberg tap, but that has not been used in 2 years and a pint from that could possibly kill you.

Your talking about Limerick, there, not Ireland.
Ireland had an amazing, emerging, diverse beer culture. I almost never ever drink mass produced bland beer and I go to pubs a lot.
I think I'd really struggle in Germany faced with all that lager.


I've known many places over the years where you could get good ham between slices of good bread.