2 year action plan to revive the city centre

whatever76

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/council-unveils-two-year-action-plan-to-revive-corks-city-centre/

Nonoperational

That actually looks seriously impressive.

KCAccidental

Rapid Bus Transit: In 2016 the design work will commence for a new rapid bus transit system that will ultimately connect Ballincollig with the Docklands

Now I'll believe it when I see it, but I will be very interested in seeing the design.

pwurple

I thought that was going to be something useful, like "reduce rates to encourage businesses", or "provide incentive to regenerate over-shop flats".

Instead, it's a boatload of vanity projects. Le sigh.

Bacchus

Some great simple ideas in there. Some jobs shouldn't require some special action plan to do though (e.g. repairing the lights on Oliver Plunkett St.) but at least this plan will get those things done.

I'm not so sure about the tables & chairs idea for Princes street. It's not exactly a sun trap and just looking at the Summer we're having, would it be of any benefit?

Great to see Albert Quay wharf getting some attention too. That area has really been getting a face lift over the past few years.

Bacchus

pwurple wrote: »

I thought that was going to be something useful, like "reduce rates to encourage businesses", or "provide incentive to regenerate over-shop flats".

Instead, it's a boatload of vanity projects. Le sigh.

While both of those are also good ideas, don't let that take away from what is a fairly impressive list of tasks that is designed to improve the image of and quality of life in the city center.

j8wk2feszrnpao

"Fr Matthew St repairs: €16,500 has been approved to improve the appearance of the iconic Cork statue."
Man, I hope I get that job!

To be honest, a lot of the list is just general work that should be done.
The "revive Cork’s city centre" headline seems a bit of a stretch.

Bacchus

munstermagic11 wrote: »

"Fr Matthew St repairs: €16,500 has been approved to improve the appearance of the iconic Cork statue."
Man, I hope I get that job!

To be honest, a lot of the list is just general work that should be done.
The "revive Cork’s city centre" headline seems a bit of a stretch.

Agreed, there are a good few things that should just be part and parcel of the upkeep of the city. There's plenty of padding in that list but if they did everything on the list in the next 2 years, it'd be great for the city.

hoodwinked

the easiest way to get people back into the city is being overlooked here, get rid of the junkies and those assaulting people!

the reason most of us won't go into town anymore is

a: the needles lying around everywhere, literally everywhere.

b: the threat of violence, attacks in the city are now happening during the day, the street cleaner who was attacked on a weekday morning a few weeks ago, the brawl on winthrop street on that saturday afternoon,


if people are being assaulted on patrick street the main bright and packed street why would they go near the smaller emptier side streets? or when they are stepping over blood stained footpaths or stepping over used needles, of course they are going to go to the suburbs where they have clean safe shopping, even in mahon point you'd often see security walking around moving on loitering groups gathering or messing about...etc it gives you a sense of being safe.

the beer revolu

hoodwinked wrote: »

the easiest way to get people back into the city is being overlooked here, get rid of the junkies and those assaulting people!

the reason most of us won't go into town anymore is

a: the needles lying around everywhere, literally everywhere.

b: the threat of violence, attacks in the city are now happening during the day, the street cleaner who was attacked on a weekday morning a few weeks ago, the brawl on winthrop street on that saturday afternoon,


if people are being assaulted on patrick street the main bright and packed street why would they go near the smaller emptier side streets? or when they are stepping over blood stained footpaths or stepping over used needles, of course they are going to go to the suburbs where they have clean safe shopping, even in mahon point you'd often see security walking around moving on loitering groups gathering or messing about...etc it gives you a sense of being safe.

What's more of a problem than antisocial behaviour is the total exaggeration of reporting on such behaviour by people like yourself.

The impression that you create of the city centre is totally false. I live in the city centre and rarely see any of what you mention. Yes, there are some junkies, alcoholics, homeless people and scumbag kids about - it's a city. For a city the size of Cork, it is generally very safe.

Your kind of scare mongering serves to put people off visiting the city and does damage to the city.

Often it's people who rarely visit the city are the "experts" on its awfulness!

cgcsb

basic maintenance like replacing lights and cleaning statues should not be included in any ''action" plan. That's basic running maintenance and having it as part of an 'action plan' sets the dangerous precident that such basic things are somehow outside the local authority's day to day remit.

The Kent station thing is being done by CIE at the behest of the NTA, so nothing really got to do with Cork City Council. What'd be useful is if the CC installed something approaching adequate pedestrian and cycling facilities between Horgan's Quay and Patrick st

The other measures are of course very welcome.

whisky_galore

The footbridge from the Metropole to Merchant's Quay is hardly a dire neccessity and artists painting boarded up vacant premises is sticking plaster stuff.

namloc1980

hoodwinked wrote: »

the easiest way to get people back into the city is being overlooked here, get rid of the junkies and those assaulting people!

the reason most of us won't go into town anymore is

a: the needles lying around everywhere, literally everywhere.

b: the threat of violence, attacks in the city are now happening during the day, the street cleaner who was attacked on a weekday morning a few weeks ago, the brawl on winthrop street on that saturday afternoon,


if people are being assaulted on patrick street the main bright and packed street why would they go near the smaller emptier side streets? or when they are stepping over blood stained footpaths or stepping over used needles, of course they are going to go to the suburbs where they have clean safe shopping, even in mahon point you'd often see security walking around moving on loitering groups gathering or messing about...etc it gives you a sense of being safe.

I think you're over exaggerating those issues to be honest. Not that they aren't problems but not at the level you're suggesting. I work in town and I must say I've never seen hypodermic needles lying around. If you say they are "literally everywhere" then they should be "everywhere".

I've been in many cities with a much more menacing and threatening atmosphere than Cork and on this island we can look no further than Dublin for that. Again not saying there is no issues but not at that level you're suggesting. IMO Cork is a relatively safe city.

hoodwinked

the beer revolu wrote: »

Often it's people who rarely visit the city are the "experts" on its awfulness!

i would go in at least every week, at one stage almost every day, i'm not the only one who used to do this who no longer does because of the issues i have mentioned, the area around morrisons island was always rough but i never felt scared there not even parking there at night, until groups of junkies started hanging out there the past few months, lately in as far as the mall/gpo/patrick street has gotten so much rougher between beggers/drugs/violence, i saw numerous needles on patrick street the last time my husband and i were in, we had to step over blood stained stones on patrick street, others in town on other days have said the exact same, this is what people are experiencing. if we can't keep it off the main street which always has people on it what hope do the smaller quieter streets have?

i worked years ago on patrick street and never once saw any issues like these but the past year or two it HAS gotten worse and people saying it hasn't is why it's still happening, nobody wants to admit it's a problem but are still scratching their heads wondering where the shoppers are?

whisky_galore

I don't find Cork overrun by junkies, there's a LOT of homeless certainly, or at least there appears to be in the evenings/nightime.

There's the odd annoying beggar, but that's about it. Think Cork is way safer than Dublin will ever be.

pwurple

Cork is not overrun with needles and junkies. I think I've seen two needles in the city (down that creepy alley next to Penny's), and about 40 in ballincollig.

I wonder what the statue refurb is going to be like... are they plating it with gold leaf?

hoodwinked

namloc1980 wrote: »

I've been in many cities with a much more menacing and threatening atmosphere than Cork and on this island we can look no further than Dublin for that. Again not saying there is no issues but not at that level you're suggesting. IMO Cork is a relatively safe city.

i'm not saying by any means dublin is better, i've been there too a few times recently and i'd agree with you,

but walk down the grand parade, you see needles near that bathroom, the park...etc patrick street near any of the side streets/corners you do see needles, i've seen them on the lower end of the south mall, the bus station is another area you'd see them, morrisons island..etc thats pretty much everywhere...or at least too many places

when you have to walk through town looking down for fear of stepping on something, thats not safe, constantly having to watch around you, it's not the way you feel walking through Wilton or Mahon point where you can just browse without worrying and thats definitely one of the reasons why the majority go there instead these days,

whisky_galore

hoodwinked wrote: »

when you have to walk through town looking down for fear of stepping on something, thats not safe, constantly having to watch around you, it's not the way you feel walking through Wilton or Mahon point where you can just browse without worrying and thats definitely one of the reasons why the majority go there instead these days,

The out-of-town shopping centres are far more convenient for shopping in one spot than the hassle of getting into town, the traffic, the limited opening hours of city centre shops, paying for parking.... junkies or no.

cgcsb

Isn't the BRT over due? like really overdue! The initial study was around 2008 if I recall correctly, and the transport situation in Cork has been deteriorating quite rapidly in Cork, despite some positive cycling measures.

CHealy

hoodwinked wrote: »

the easiest way to get people back into the city is being overlooked here, get rid of the junkies and those assaulting people!

the reason most of us won't go into town anymore is

a: the needles lying around everywhere, literally everywhere.

b: the threat of violence, attacks in the city are now happening during the day, the street cleaner who was attacked on a weekday morning a few weeks ago, the brawl on winthrop street on that saturday afternoon,


if people are being assaulted on patrick street the main bright and packed street why would they go near the smaller emptier side streets? or when they are stepping over blood stained footpaths or stepping over used needles, of course they are going to go to the suburbs where they have clean safe shopping, even in mahon point you'd often see security walking around moving on loitering groups gathering or messing about...etc it gives you a sense of being safe.

Its a city of over two hundred thousand, there is going to be junkies, there is going to be violence, but the way you are making it out its as if we are living in Mogadishu. Give over with the exaggerations and realise that we actually live in an incredibly safe and beautiful city.

namloc1980

cgcsb wrote: »

Isn't the BRT over due? like really overdue! The initial study was around 2008 if I recall correctly, and the transport situation in Cork has been deteriorating quite rapidly in Cork, despite some positive cycling measures.

How has the transport situation "rapidly declined"? In the last few years we have Realtime info online and at bus stops. Also have Leap Card and expanded bus services. Now not saying it's great as the transport situation leaves alot to be desired but we should give credit where it's due and not blow things out of proportion.

The BRT would be a great addition to the City. It was scuppered due to the financial crisis but hopefully it'll get back on track asap.

pwurple

whisky_galore wrote: »

The out-of-town shopping centres are far more convenient for shopping in one spot than the hassle of getting into town, the traffic, the limited opening hours of city centre shops, paying for parking.... junkies or no.

Era there's space for both.

I like a bit of grit in a city anyway. Give me a grimy NYC over sanitised Vancouver any day.

Shopping centers to me are souless bland cathedrals of consumerism. Buy buy buy. No galleries, or street art, or hustle and bustle of traders in markets. Everyone dressed almost identically. Mammy Point is not for me.

I find it easy enough to get in and out of town. Leap card and hop on the bus, or my spiffy electric car with it's free city center parking, free tolls, free recharging points... Ahhh.

SpaceTime

I'm honestly not seeing all these needles and junkies and I'm in the city centre literally everyday.
The place certainly doesn't seem over run with them anyway.

There's definite a bit more homelessness in recent years though but that's more of a general social problem to do with high rents.

I've never found the city centre at all threatening other than when it gets rowdy on a Sat night.

Also if you do see that kind of drug activity please phone the Gardai in Anglesey Street and tip them off. We have yo actually be involved in making sure stuff like that keeps getting reported. They can't see everything!

weadick

It's the only city in Europe with a declining population. There are good reasons for that. Cleaning statues and fixing lights won't change that.

Vancouver has the same crime and drugs problems every city has, the only difference is that they manage their problems more effectively than us.

namloc1980

weadick wrote: »

It's the only city in Europe with a declining population.

I would love to see stats on that! Only City in Europe with declining population....really?

hoodwinked

look i was just giving my most recent experiences and i would have been someone who loved going in and walking around town on saturday or midweek doing my shopping there,


there has been a decline in the past few years that people seem happy to ignore, i would rather see money being pumped into extra gardaí on the streets than street art, i think if people could feel safer in there (even if it is seeing more gardaí walking the street and dealing with crime/drugs/violence) more people would shop there,

take a look at this article from 3 years ago:

And gardaí, concerned by the number of assaults causing harm, say the attacks are being fuelled by a combination of excessive alcohol and drugs.

Superintendent Barry McPolin, who is in charge of policing the city centre, spoke of an “increased aggressiveness on the streets” in recent months.

Many of those arrested, he said, appeared to have switched from drinking beer to consuming spirits and shots on top of other substances.

From Jan 1 to Apr 1, there were 24 reported incidents of assault causing harm in the city centre. Compared with 19 in the same period last year, it was an increase of 26%. Less serious assaults were up from 61 to 73.

irish examiner

and then from january of this year:

There were dramatic scenes in Cork city centre this afternoon as armed gardaí were involved in the arrest of two men on a busy pedestrian street.

breaking news

those busy pedestrians are shoppers who witness these things and tend not to come back, as they don't feel safe there, in fairness the gardai handled it well but like i said i'd rather see money spent on these gardaí keeping them in the city.


In April this year the examiner had this article which stated:

Mr Ó Donnabháin said heroin use was increasing in Cork and more gardaí were needed to combat this, especially as it was in part connected to a 53% increase in robbery from the person recorded last year.

so there was a surge in 2012 and in 2014 a 53% increase, i don't think it's just me feeling this way then....

CHealy

A few scraps here and there and you're frightened to go into town? I saw a fight down in Kenmare one night, should I never go there again for fear of being stabbed in the neck?

hoodwinked

CHealy wrote: »

A few scraps here and there and you're frightened to go into town? I saw a fight down in Kenmare one night, should I never go there again for fear of being stabbed in the neck?

thats not what i am saying at all, i am saying the city rather than worrying about street art, or spending €16,000 on a statue should start with giving the city a safer feel, if they want to attract shoppers and families back to the city center they need to offer what the suburbs offer, safety (and maybe free parking :P )

offer them the ability to walk down patrick street without being hassled by beggers/junkies/needles/blood stains, make these things almost non - existent on our main street (or at least as best they can as these things will happen on occasion. it's just these "occasions" are becoming far too frequent)

a solution would be spend some more money on gardaí, where there is a visible garda presence people will perceive it as "safer" cork has always been about its laneways, make those safe to walk down again. but start with patrick street.

i'm saying make the city safer and a lot more people will return to it.

SpaceTime

weadick wrote: »

It's the only city in Europe with a declining population. There are good reasons for that. Cleaning statues and fixing lights won't change that.

Vancouver has the same crime and drugs problems every city has, the only difference is that they manage their problems more effectively than us.

Cork's population is declining in the city centre because of the city limit being very narrow and suburbanisation coupled with empty nest homes in the inner suburbs where most people are in their 60s+ but who would have had kids 20, 30, 40 years ago.

You're taking about areas like Montenotte, Blackrock, Ballinlough, Mayfield, Togher, inner parts of Douglas, the area around UCC etc etc all of which have largely now got two older people living in a larger home. That will change as people pass away and houses get sold but the peak population is inevitably shrinking because we don't count the new suburban areas as the city.

There's been really very little history of building nice downtown accommodation until perhaps the Elysian and the Opera Lane apartment developments etc ... Most of the 1990a era stuff is shoeboxes or poor quality.

The declining population has very little to so with people being driven out by high crime!!

Honestly, I live almost in the city centre and I really think you're painting a wholly inaccurate picture of the place. It's absolutely not dangerous.

I'm a 15 min walk from Patrick's St on the north side. It's not dangerous, threatening or anything else. I've never had a break in, I leave windows open for ventilation, my car's never been stolen, I've access to vast arrays of shops and food outlets and I wouldn't be able to imagine living without an ability to stroll into the English Market !!

Most of Cork's nicest areas are "in the city" - they're just expensive and rarely come up for sale. So you're really just looking at an ageing population and no creation of new homes and artificially narrow boundary.

There's also a significant amount of former residential property being used for offices and SMEs in city too especially around areas close to the Southside of the city centre.

namloc1980

hoodwinked wrote: »

look i was just giving my most recent experiences and i would have been someone who loved going in and walking around town on saturday or midweek doing my shopping there,


there has been a decline in the past few years that people seem happy to ignore, i would rather see money being pumped into extra gardaí on the streets than street art, i think if people could feel safer in there (even if it is seeing more gardaí walking the street and dealing with crime/drugs/violence) more people would shop there,

take a look at this article from 3 years ago:



irish examiner

and then from january of this year:



breaking news

those busy pedestrians are shoppers who witness these things and tend not to come back, as they don't feel safe there, in fairness the gardai handled it well but like i said i'd rather see money spent on these gardaí keeping them in the city.


In April this year the examiner had this article which stated:


so there was a surge in 2012 and in 2014 a 53% increase, i don't think it's just me feeling this way then....

You make it sound like taking your chances in central Baghdad or something. I've seen scumbags shop lifting and being arrested in Mahon Point but I wouldn't consider it dangerous. It's a city with some issues but still one of the safest cities around.

hoodwinked

namloc1980 wrote: »

You make it sound like taking your chances in central Baghdad or something. I've seen scumbags shop lifting and being arrested in Mahon Point but I wouldn't consider it dangerous. It's a city with some issues but still one of the safest cities around.

look i get that in terms of other places cork is "Safe", but the shop lifters don't really impact you or harm you, it's rare you'd see them attack people in the centers, thats what the city used to be like just the odd rare attack, the statistic are showing this is more likely these days it is increasing and rather than combating that they are talking about spending €16,000 on a statue???

stepping on a strangers leftover needle does impact you, and considering some children have a habit of picking up random things parents just don't take chances, people ignoring the issues and claiming they aren't there (like the city council with this list) are not helping, it's frustrating as if i could at least see them taking some action to combat the drugs/violence it would be fantastic to go back to town on saturday mornings, but instead they are talking about blowing the cash on art and statues, it just feels like city council here are sticking their heads in the sand rather than making Cork a safer city, in fairness being known as a safe and beautiful old city is what attracted people from all over Ireland to Cork for years.