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Arctic ice grew by a third

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  • #32
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Yes, 4bn years ago it was very hot indeed...

    Love to see the Ice cores from that date.. :P


  • #33
    Edgarfrndly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭Edgarfrndly


    TomBtheGoat wrote: »
    Humans, what do we know? Fúck all if you ask me.

    Maybe we'll need 10,000 years of scientific measurement & observations, before we'll know with any certainty what is actually going on.

    We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years. We also can look at tree rings, which give us further information on climate going back thousands of years, amongst other methods.

    It's this sort of blissful ignorance online about climate, that allows the climate change deniers to grow like fungus.

    Climate change is occurring, and we have a huge amount of data supporting it.


  • #34
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Edgarfrndly wrote: »
    We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years. We also can look at tree rings, which give us further information on climate going back thousands of years, amongst other methods.

    It's this sort of blissful ignorance online about climate, that allows the climate change deniers to grow like fungus.

    Climate change is occurring, and we have a huge amount of data supporting it.

    Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.


  • #35
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

    Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

    You decide.


  • #36
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

    Why is Venus so hot?


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  • #37
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    topper75 wrote: »
    Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

    Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

    You decide.

    I would like to hear just one of these climatologist give us a number in relation to how much input humans have had. Just one. It's like if your house was already on fire and you then pour a bit of petrol on it it's still going to burn down.


  • #38
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Yes, 4bn years ago it was very hot indeed...
    And 2 billion years ago it was extremely cold. Probably miles of ice covering the entire planet thanks to Bacteria spewing toxic oxygen into the atmosphere.
    Edgarfrndly wrote: »
    We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years.
    That only gives us an idea of what the weather was like over extended periods of time though. It's not going to give us a breakdown of the global climate variations in a huge amount of detail. It allows us to make some educated guesses. Even if we did have detailed weather reports going back 10,000 years it could still be next to useless for the next 10,000 years as the climate might change completely over that time.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.
    What about the mini ice age in the medieval times? It's always in a state of constant change but I think it's pretty clear that humans have been affecting the planet more and more as time goes on. We are pretty much a force of nature at this point. We can let nature take it's course but it would be in our own best interests to manage our effect on the planet. The weather on earth can go either way, at the moment the planet has ideal weather for human colonisation, if it gets hotter or colder we may not be able to sustain our populations.


  • #39
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Why is Venus so hot?

    Incredibly dense atmosphere.


  • #40
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ScumLord wrote: »
    And 2 billion years ago it was extremely cold. Probably miles of ice covering the entire planet thanks to Bacteria spewing toxic oxygen into the atmosphere.

    That only gives us an idea of what the weather was like over extended periods of time though. It's not going to give us a breakdown of the global climate variations in a huge amount of detail. It allows us to make some educated guesses. Even if we did have detailed weather reports going back 10,000 years it could still be next to useless for the next 10,000 years as the climate might change completely over that time.

    What about the mini ice age in the medieval times? It's always in a state of constant change but I think it's pretty clear that humans have been affecting the planet more and more as time goes on. We are pretty much a force of nature at this point. We can let nature take it's course but it would be in our own best interests to manage our effect on the planet. The weather on earth can go either way, at the moment the planet has ideal weather for human colonisation, if it gets hotter or colder we may not be able to sustain our populations.

    I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.


  • #41
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Incredibly dense atmosphere.

    Nearly there. What is that atmosphere primarily made of?


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  • #42
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Nearly there. What is that atmosphere primarily made of?

    If we had an atmosphere as dense as Venus, its composition would be the least of our problems.


  • #43
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    If we had an atmosphere as dense as Venus, its composition would be the least of our problems.

    No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

    You know the answer.


  • #44
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,152 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.

    This position genuinely makes no sense to me.

    It's a bit like saying 'I'm gonna die anyway, so I might as well play russian roulette'

    Humans massively changing the biosphere, we're fundamentally changing the composition of our atmosphere, we're altering the chemistry of the ocieans and we're terraforming the land. 83% of the land surface of the earth is being direclty affected by human activity.

    We have a responsibility to ourselves to do everything we can to protect our biosphere for our own benefit and for future generations.


  • #45
    Edgarfrndly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭Edgarfrndly


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

    It's not about the change, but the rate of change and cause of change.

    The MWP can be explained by science, in the same way today's abnormal shift in climate can be explained by science. We can analyse data and reports, and draw conclusions to show that the cause of previous shifts in climate and today's shift in climate are not related.

    At no point have climatologists stated that our climate was static. So citing some marginal shift in the past, is not an argument against the cause of the shift we are currently experiencing.

    As for "carbon tax dollars" - I don't buy the conspiracy theory. You either believe that the overwhelming majority of climatologists, and climate students are all in on one huge conspiracy about one of the most important questions in science or that the huge array of peer-review studies that are published every second week by them are credible, and well-founded.


  • #46
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.
    Sure, but with human help we're probably certain to end up at some low level extinction event. One to go hand in hand with the ongoing extinction event that's been happening for the past 100,000 years or so of human exploitation. We're clearly having an effect, nature probably hasn't had this much of an effect on the environment with one creature since the early days of bacteria.


  • #47
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

    You know the answer.

    Yes its rather close to the sun as well....


  • #48
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes its rather close to the sun as well....

    But much hotter than mercury, strange that...

    What is the atmosphere made of? Too afraid to admit it?


  • #49
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Saipanne wrote: »
    No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

    You know the answer.
    The atmosphere is comprised mainly of yoga pants which is what makes it so hot.


  • #50
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    But much hotter than mercury, strange that...

    What is the atmosphere made of? Too afraid to admit it?

    Has one a way of swapping all the nitrogen on earth to carbon dioxide ? I will look forward to the explanation on how we will breath over 90% carbon dioxide.


  • #51
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    topper75 wrote: »
    Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

    Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

    You decide.

    Conversely, the "climate change skeptics" are either bravely defending freedom from greedy governments, or they're a respectable front for greedier fossil fuel companies.


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  • #52
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Has one a way of swapping all the nitrogen on earth to carbon dioxide ? I will look forward to the explanation on how we will breath over 90% carbon dioxide.

    Yes, continuously putting it into our atmosphere. Pretty straightforward.


  • #53
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Conversely, you can either think you're part of a movement defending freedom from governments and do-gooders...or acknowledge you're a stooge for Big Oil.

    I'm neither, That plane will be flying to its destination empty me paying carbon tax will not effect that.


  • #54
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Yes, continuously putting it into our atmosphere. Pretty straightforward.

    And we would all die before the heat got to us without environment suits.


  • #55
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    And we would all die before the heat got to us without environment suits.

    Best to leave it as it is, then. :rolleyes:


  • #56
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Best to leave it as it is, then. :rolleyes:

    Nah making a false comparison between two plants can lead to issues. Being about 40 million kilometres closer to the sun would be the issue.


  • #57
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    That 40 million kilometres comes nowhere close to explaining the difference.

    He knows that. I'm calling shenanigans.


  • #58
    Edgarfrndly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭Edgarfrndly


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Nah making a false comparison between two plants can lead to issues. Being about 40 million kilometres closer to the sun would be the issue.

    No it wouldn't. The larger issue with respect to Venus is the about of how dense its atmosphere is, and the huge amount of carbon dioxide in it.

    How do we know this is the larger issue? Because we can estimate the habitable zone of any given star, and hypothesize under optimal conditions, which planets could support life. Venus rests just on the edge of our habitable zone.

    Another experiment would be to analyse the disparity in temperature between Venus and Mercury. Venus is much hotter than Mercury, despite Mercury being 60 million km closer to the sun at its perihelion.


  • #59
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,763 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Saipanne wrote: »
    He knows that. I'm calling shenanigans.


    That's the trouble with climate scare mongers,take one similarity and claim yes this must be the cause.


  • #60
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    kneemos wrote: »
    That's the trouble with climate scare mongers,take one similarity and claim yes this must be the cause.

    A blind man will not thank you for a looking glass.


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  • #61
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Edgarfrndly wrote: »
    No it wouldn't. The larger issue with respect to Venus is the about of how dense its atmosphere is, and the huge amount of carbon dioxide in it.

    How do we know this is the larger issue? Because we can estimate the habitable zone of any given star, and hypothesize under optimal conditions, which planets could support life. Venus rests just on the edge of our habitable zone.

    Another experiment would be to analyse the disparity in temperature between Venus and Mercury. Venus is much hotter than Mercury, despite Mercury being 60 million km closer to the sun at its perihelion.

    Jesus, If you replace our nitrogen with carbon dioxide the heat build up would not kill us first it would be the unbreathable atmosphere. It's plainly ridiculous comparing the 2. Just going look look carbon dioxide is not very helpful.


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