Anyone ever gotten a job after a bad reference?

LegacyUser

I left my last job on bad terms with my manager. We didnt agree on a lot of things and eventually it just came to a head and I felt I could not continue to work there. I resigned and didnt serve my notice period which wouldve been 2 weeks.
I was lucky enough to get an interview for another job which I think Id be great at. I had an interview and got on really well with the interviewer, I had a lot in common with him and he seemed really happy with my answers to his questions and my experience.
So Im expecting a bad reference from my exmanager and Im just wondering how worried I should be about this?
If the interviewer is given a bad reference on me, is it likely that he might think (based on my other good references and experience and suitability for the role) that he will give me a go anyway, I mean, most jobs have a probation period so I could use that time to prove the bad reference wrong? Also, is it likely that the interviewer will give me the opportunity to give my side of anything said in the reference?
Hoping someone can help me as Im trying not to get my hopes up about the job. Its in a company Id love to work for and as there is a lot of opportunity to grow with them, Id love to get in somewhere like this.

Mrs OBumble

Just don't give that manager as a referee! Give someone else instead.

LegacyUser

thanks for your reply.
unfortunately, that manager is the only person who can give a reference for me and because I worked there for the past 2 years and it is the position with the most relevance to the position I have interviewed for, I dont think there is a way around them looking for a reference from that manager.

TheDoc

If I'm not mistaken(maybe it has changed) but I don't think you can actually get a bad reference, as it can leave the individual and or company open to what was previously labelled libel/slander(always mix them up) which is now all under defamatory.

I've had to give some references and the instruction I would receive is either provided a positive reference, or if I felt I was going to be negative, decline to comment. (But then that has its own message).

As above you can always omit that reference entirely. If it is a job that is maybe very relevant to your CV, maybe see if there is someone in the business of stature you got on well with, that would give you a reference? I was made redundant from a company few years back, and while I was told by HR, and my direct management they would happily provide a reference, a number of project managers and other management came to me in person advising if I needed a reference feel free to provide their details.

Guess it kinda depends on the role and sector your in, but worth thinking about. (if someone else there you got on really well with, would be a ref)

seamus

TheDoc wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken(maybe it has changed) but I don't think you can actually get a bad reference, as it can leave the individual and or company open to what was previously labelled libel/slander(always mix them up) which is now all under defamatory.

You're right in that a bad reference potentially leaves a company open to a defamation case, but that doesn't mean you can't give a bad reference.

You will only lose a defamation case if you can't prove that what you said was true.

So if the referee was to tell the new employer that OP left at short notice and OP took a defamation case, all the old employer would have to do is present records showing the OP leaving at short notice.

Many companies have a "If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all" policy about references because it's impossible to ensure that someone doesn't put their foot in it when giving a reference.
But that doesn't mean you can't give a bad reference.

Taking a defamation case is long and costly, so you can be pretty sure that at the lower end of the pay scales there are bad references flying all over the place, as workers don't have the means or the knowledge to do anything about it.

In the OP's case, yes I would recommend omitting that reference if you can. Or give the name of someone in HR, who will give a boilerplate response to the questions.

_Brian

Tough position to be in. It really is.

It's all down not to the previous manager and how he wants to deal with it. Some will take the easy route and say little or nothing. Some will say enough to cause OP a problem getting a new position.

In the past I've done both depending on the circumstances. Employees that turned out to be nasty piece of work I've given frankly honest references. For others where I thought it was a problem with personality clash and the employee was basically sound worker I've kept to the basics in reference so not to cause problems.

Then some companies don't bother checking references.

If you have a problem with your last reference I'd advise putting "reference on request" on your cv, that way when your contacted to give your references you have a chance if you feel the need to chat about the circumstances.

LegacyUser

thanks for all the responses.
there is no hr department in my previous place, the manager is essentially the hr department (one of the big downsides to working in a small place) and everything else. there is nobody else in the company who would be allowed to give a reference and I wouldnt like to put anybody in an awkward position if the manager found out (he would go absolutely bonkers).
so I suppose the best I can hope for is that the manager just gives the basic reference.

can anyone comment on this part of my first post - "If the interviewer is given a bad reference on me, is it likely that he might think (based on my other good references and experience and suitability for the role) that he will give me a go anyway, I mean, most jobs have a probation period so I could use that time to prove the bad reference wrong? Also, is it likely that the interviewer will give me the opportunity to give my side of anything said in the reference?"

Mrs OBumble

OP, have you even asked your previous manager if s/he is willing to be a referee? You need to get their agreement before you give their name, and in the circumstances you describe I doubt they will agree.

You are being incredibly naive in thinking that there is a chance you will get the job if you have a bad reference. Even no reference from your last job will stand you a better chance that a bad one.

And I totally don't buy the line that there is absolutely no one else who can give you a reference. Who would you use if your ex-manager was dead or in Australia or whatever?

jungleman

I think most employers, instead of giving a "bad" reference, just give one which is short, vague, and not necessarily effusive with praise. The recipient of the reference will pretty much know from reading it that the employee in question didn't leave on the best of terms.

LegacyUser

how would you broach the fact that your previous employer wont give a reference with the interviewer? or how would you discuss the fact that you dont want the interviewer to contact your previous employer?

jungleman

micinla wrote: »

how would you broach the fact that your previous employer wont give a reference with the interviewer? or how would you discuss the fact that you dont want the interviewer to contact your previous employer?

You don't. That would set off major alarm bells for an interviewer. It would make you look like you had something to hide and didn't want the interviewer asking you ex-employer any questions.

Is there any chance at all you could make up with your old boss and put asie any differences?

CruelCoin

TheDoc wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken(maybe it has changed) but I don't think you can actually get a bad reference, as it can leave the individual and or company open to what was previously labelled libel/slander(always mix them up) which is now all under defamatory.

True, but you can give a non-committal one. Just as effective, with non of the legal ramifications.

Newemployer: "Hi, can you tell me something about bob? How was he with you?"
Me: "I confirm that that person was employed here.
Newemployer: "ok.....can you tell me something about his standard of work, etc?
Me: "He attended work in this business"
Newemployer: "i see...Thanks!"

Nody

CruelCoin wrote: »

True, but you can give a non-committal one. Just as effective, with non of the legal ramifications.

Newemployer: "Hi, can you tell me something about bob? How was he with you?"
Me: "I confirm that that person was employed here.
Newemployer: "ok.....can you tell me something about his standard of work, etc?
Me: "He attended work in this business"
Newemployer: "i see...Thanks!"

Or my favorite: "Would you hire bob again?
Me: 10s silence "Yes"

LegacyUser

thanks for all the replies guys, heres hoping it all works out

pauliebdub

The new place might just require a reference statement which can be requested from.HR. Personal references from ex management seems to be dying out as it opens up the possiblity of legal action so many will refuse to give a personal reference.

boodiebhoy

A lot of places now just confirm the period of time a person worked for them and in what role.

Shelflife

I once took on a person who was fired from her previous job. I spoke to her former boss and interviewed her.

Simply put I believed her story more than the bosses. She worked with me for years after wards , never regretted it.

skallywag

I would tend to agree with the above poster.

Be up front your new potential boss about the situation, your situation is not all that uncommon.

LegacyUser

howdy, just thought youd like to know I got the job.
I had a very frank discussion with the interviewer over the phone where I explained a little about my previous manager (while trying not to delve too deeply to avoid it seeming like I was bad-mouthing my ex-manager), the interviewer was very sympathetic and said he would discuss things with his superiors but couldnt make any promises.
I got a phone call about an hour ago confirming that they are very happy to take me on and the interviewer also thanked me for my honesty, he said that he has had reason to deal with my ex-manager in a business capacity in the past and is aware of what he is like to work with (my ex manager has a very bad reputation) so that certainly went in my favour.
Its great to feel like an employee still has some power in these types of situations and that its not just all over your head.
Starting next friday. thanks for advice everyone.

skallywag

Fair play.