PRTB and the time it takes to get tenants out

harry999

Hi

I rent a house & the tenants(18 months in house) are causing major problems for the neighbours.

Yesterday the tenant came out with an axe/hatchet as she having argument with somebody outside the house. The neighbours children were playing outside the house at the time & they fearful that something will happen them.

By the tendency act 204 - behave in a way that is anti-social” means—


(a) engage in behaviour that constitutes the commission of an offence, being an offence the commission of which is reasonably likely to affect directly the well-being or welfare of others,


(b) engage in behaviour that causes or could cause fear, danger, injury, damage or loss to any person living, working or otherwise lawfully in the dwelling concerned or its vicinity and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, includes violence, intimidation, coercion, harassment or obstruction of, or threats to, any such person, or


(c) engage, persistently, in behaviour that prevents or interferes with the peaceful occupation—


(i) by any other person residing in the dwelling concerned, of that dwelling,


(ii) by any person residing in any other dwelling contained in the property containing the dwelling concerned, of that other dwelling, or


(iii) by any person residing in a dwelling (“neighbourhood dwelling”) in the vicinity of the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling concerned, of that neighbourhood dwelling.

So taking this to the PTRB & GIVING TENANTS 7 DAY NOTICE on anti-social behaviour.
Then lodge a dispute with PTRB
Then a determination order from PTRB

Tenants have said they will not leave without a court order - so then prob have to go to the enforcement section of PTRB - & go to the circuit court(which are closed till October).
The court order & hopefully tenant leave.

Anybody gone through this process & how long did it take to get tenant out ? Cost ? Tenant is liable for rent while in the house - was this rent paid ?

If I issue 7 days notice today - when should I expect tenants out ?
Thanks

Stheno

How do you figure you only have give seven days when they are there 18 months?

January

Because you don't have to give reasonable notice for anti-social or criminal behaviour.

whippet

nobody here can give you a time line, however at a guess if the tenants are digging their heels in and will wait for a court order / enforcement you could be looking at in excess of 12 months and considerable expense.

It highlights the imbalance of power / rights that tenants have over landlords

TheDoc

whippet wrote: »

nobody here can give you a time line, however at a guess if the tenants are digging their heels in and will wait for a court order / enforcement you could be looking at in excess of 12 months and considerable expense.

It highlights the imbalance of power / rights that tenants have over landlords

Well in cases where there is clear malpractice or dangerous/criminal activity taking place.

There are tenant rights there for a reason, if not, everyone would be on their ear every few weeks as landlords flip tenants to raise rent at every opportunity.

Is the neighbor who was threatened with an axe pressing charges? That constitutes serious criminal charges from assault. (The mere threat alone is a serious criminal offense)

I'd maybe hazard a guess that a case lodged with the PTRB under the circumstances would be treated as higher priority then say a case where a LL was eviciting noisy students. Or are they all treated in order of being lodged?

I'm sure they are liable for rent while in the property, but if they stop paying, as many stories have been shared here, like drawing blood from a stone getting that payment back.

Just wouldn't have the patience for any of this, really gives a good perspective on the other side of the equation ( me being a tenant).

Reading that other thread about the noise got my blood up, and how the court and legal system only serves those with money and wealth, although that is no surprise. If they weren't gone after the notice I'd be in changing the locks and turfing them out.

I'm thankful I don't have to deal with this sort of stuff in my life, or I'd be locked up.

Pawwed Rig

I would be very careful before I relied on the 7 day notice provision unless you have a good bit of evidence like photos, video, police reports, eye witness statements etc. The last thing you need is an illegal eviction determination. In this case I would suggest legal advice. The PRTB will not help you and it is a slow process (I am in my fifth year of my issue). You are essentially on your own in this i am sorry to say.

TheDoc

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would be very careful before I relied on the 7 day notice provision unless you have a good bit of evidence like photos, video, police reports, eye witness statements etc. The last thing you need is an illegal eviction determination. In this case I would suggest legal advice. The PRTB will not help you and it is a slow process (I am in my fifth year of my issue). You are essentially on your own in this i am sorry to say.

fifth year?!?!?!??!

I fully get now why I hear stories of landlords walking in and changing locks and turfing **** out on the streets.

Are you five years in a case from an LL or Tenant perspective?

Nothing in this day and age should take five months, nevermind five years. Arbitration, litigation and the legal system here is a total mess.

delthedriver

TheDoc wrote: »

fifth year?!?!?!??!

I fully get now why I hear stories of landlords walking in and changing locks and turfing **** out on the streets.

Are you five years in a case from an LL or Tenant perspective?

Nothing in this day and age should take five months, nevermind five years. Arbitration, litigation and the legal system here is a total mess.

Is it any wonder there is a housing shortage ?
Some landlords are simply leaving their properties vacant rather than deal with tenants. Their properties are rising in value without the cost of wear and tear nor the hassle of dealing with tenants.

Pawwed Rig

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you five years in a case from an LL or Tenant perspective?

LL.
Tenant decided paying rent wasn't something she was interested in doing and walked away.

hardCopy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

LL.
Tenant decided paying rent wasn't something she was interested in doing and walked away.

At least she's out of your hair.

Tenant protections in this country are ridiculous. I say that as a tenant.

delthedriver

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

LL.
Tenant decided paying rent wasn't something she was interested in doing and walked away.

Outrageous carry on !


No laws to protect landlords!


Meanwhile Missy can go off and pull the same stunt on another unsuspecting landlord.............

Pawwed Rig

hardCopy wrote: »

At least she's out of your hair.

This is true. I am quite prepared to exhaust every legal avenue though regardless of the fact that I doubt I will ever see a penny of the money. It is an interesting and eye opening journey if nothing else. For example I never realised the regional circuit courts were such a shambles. I wouldn't let them order me a Chinese takeaway.

Roger McAllen

The whole system is screwed up. Tenants not paying rent should be prosecuted for fraud in my opinion.

delthedriver

nicnac wrote: »

I agree the PRTB are a waste of time , but if you want to avoid a hefty fine you have to follow their guidelines.

Recent dealings with PRTB, found them to be efficient and helpful. To be fair they absolutely remain impartial. However the rather ridiculous laws relating to tenants in the private rental market favour the unscrupulous chancers and leave the law abiding landlord with no protection at all.

A tenant can stop paying rent , move out when it suits them after trashing the place and leaving the place uninhabitable. Landlords often find minimum €10k of damage to property.

Going after someone who is a person of straw is a costly exercise.

Until rules are brought in to protect landlords from the subculture , the shortage of rental properties available to rent in the Irish Market will increase dramatically.

delthedriver

nicnac wrote: »

Well, my dealings with the PRTB was not good. I fail to see how a government body could not trace someone, who was in receipt of a state subsidy by their PPS number. Said tenant left 5k of damage. Had to hire a company to clean it as it was beyond something I could handle. This property crash has resulted in a lot of people renting houses they never intended to. In 8 years of renting we have had the house trashed twice. Its heart breaking.

Sorry to hear about your experiences. Imho this sort of behaviour is criminal, however the Gardai don't want to know in my experience.

In your case where the tenant was receiving State subsidy, unless they have left the country they must be receiving State subsidy at a new address. Of course Data protection will prevent any Gov agency from giving you a forwarding address. Meanwhile they are probably trashing their new home as I write. Scumbags !!!

delthedriver

nicnac wrote: »

Exactly DeltheDriver, and the stress this all causes is unbelievable. I can't wait to be able to sell but the market is volatile at the moment. For once I have some lovely tenants.

I fear every landlord gets a bad tenant at some stage.

Delighted to hear you have nice tenants now. May I ask nationality ?

athtrasna

delthedriver wrote: »

I fear every landlord gets a bad tenant at some stage.

Delighted to hear you have nice tenants now. May I ask nationality ?

No you may not. A good tenant is a good tenant regardless of nationality. Nicnac please do not answer that question, ethnic questions have no place on this forum.

Mod

GreatDefector

delthedriver wrote: »

I fear every landlord gets a bad tenant at some stage.

Delighted to hear you have nice tenants now. May I ask nationality ?

Why?

Might aswell just come out and ask if they were RA tenants while your at it

Irish people can be bad tenants too

Ctrl Alt Delete

TheDoc wrote: »

If they weren't gone after the notice I'd be in changing the locks and turfing them out.

Then you would quite rightly be done for illegal eviction, can you imagine if the rental market allowed that sort of stuff again