Dysfunctional insurance market strikes again (older used cars in the firing line)

dr.fuzzenstein

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i think you're onto something there!

We're back to the 90's when we had some American staff coming to the Dublin office for a few months, and the first thing they did was get themselves cars and then phone insurance companies. It was like "Jaysis, we couldn't be insurden you at all now, Jaysis no. Look now if you really have to, we could, but really t'would cosht you, now couldn't be done for less than 10 grand now, at all, at all". Needles to say those cars got sold on.
My own issues with trying to insure a VW Transport I brought in from Germany: "Bahahahahaaaa! Four and a half grand, mate".
It has left me with deep distrust and dislike for Irish insurance companies. Soon we will all have to be middle aged women from Cork, working in an accountant driving a 1.0 liter Yaris for no more than 3500 km a year.

But it keeps coming back to the same thing:
Guessing conservatively, at least half of all "ouch my neck" claims are by chance your arm opportunists, because Irish courts like to say "You got yourself an owie? OK, have €20k!". We pay out TENFOLD for accidents compared for what you would get in any other country in Europe. This has opened the floodgates for chancers and fraudsters who, with the willing aid of the judiciary, are bleeding the system dry.
The answer would be so simple! For a few years we should stop simply paying out, examine every claim, get independent opinions, put anyone claiming on a spit and ask them questions for several hours while they slowly rotate. Maybe even turn down every single claim initially, this will deter a lot of spoofers. If they are serious, they will appeal. There should definitely be time and cost involved in claiming.
Then we would have to somehow overhaul the court system, the amounts paid out should be brought in line with the rest of Europe.
That means for whiplash you will get €2000, NOT €20000.
That particular party has to come to an end. This should also include €15k payouts for "I slipped and fell on my arse an people were laughing at me!"

I would be willing to bet that on a very conservative guesstimate over half of payouts are due to chancers that have nothing wrong with them and professional conmen who bilk the system on a regular basis. Why the insurance companies are excluding 15 year old cars because of this, I simply don't know.
If the policy would be to fight every claim tooth and nail and try and reduce the amounts paid out, it will pay off. Initially there's work and expense involved (insurance companies HATE doing work), but in the end it's worth it.
Next guess? Insurance companies know this, they just don't care and they're going for the laziest, stupidest option available, as long as they don't have to put in extra work. Jaysus, couldn't be having that! I gots to be home with the kids and the wife asked me to put on the dinner tonight!.

So there's your answer. Laziness and stupidity.

To Elland Back

It is not laziness on behalf of insurers, they just won't get in to a fight they cannot win. Our laws in Ireland give us very generous entitlements if someone else does us wrong (negligence). It is not just motor accidents, it's trips, falls and workplace accidents. When you have the lawyers, backed by the medical profession, quoting chapter and verse on THE LAW, the only option insurers have is to get out for as little as they can by way of costs.

Claims down, premiums down. There is no other solution and you can argue it here as long as you loke

dr.fuzzenstein

To Elland Back wrote: »

It is not laziness on behalf of insurers, they just won't get in to a fight they cannot win. Our laws in Ireland give us very generous entitlements if someone else does us wrong (negligence). It is not just motor accidents, it's trips, falls and workplace accidents. When you have the lawyers, backed by the medical profession, quoting chapter and verse on THE LAW, the only option insurers have is to get out for as little as they can by way of costs.

Claims down, premiums down. There is no other solution and you can argue it here as long as you loke

The insurance companies should lean on the government to reform claim law, it's a joke. It's simply being kept afloat by shyster, ambulance chasing solicitors and drunk, insane judges who hand out money and it looks like they're getting a cut, how else can it be explained?
Payouts are silly and encourage exaggerated claims and scamsters.
Now even with the law the way it is, there still is no payout for false or exaggerated claims. So if insurance companies clamped down on easy settlements, this could all be sorted.
I already know the next argument: "But it costs more to fight a claim!".
A, not if you win and B, once it becomes known that clutching your neck will not automatically make money rain down on you from the sky, but that your claim will be scrutinized, assessed and rejected if not up to scratch, plus if people know it will cost them years of legal fighting to get their payout, that €20k suddenly doesn't look so appetizing anymore.
If the solicitor tells them "Yeah, well, they usually piss about for a while, but that money is as good as in the bank", vs. "Payouts aren't as easy to come by anymore, insurance companies have really tightened the lid on the money jar and if you get a payout, it won't come easy, I would think twice claiming about that sore neck unless you want a legal fight on your hands and if it doesn't go your way, it will cost you more than you could have won. Walk away now is my advise"
The problem is, insurance companies think just pissing money on the problem will fix it. That is like putting out fire with petrol.

nc19

zurbfoundation wrote:

Bald tyres don't pass NCT - if the car is NCT'ed its passed the same safety checks as a 2011 car - therefore I cant see why they load a premium onto anything that is over 15 years old and has passed the same checks

You are correct. Bald tyres do not pass NCT. The legal limit is 1.6mm. A tyre with 1.7mm will pass. How long do you think it will take before that tyre is dangerous?

Pov06

nc19 wrote: »

You are correct. Bald tyres do not pass NCT. The legal limit is 1.6mm. A tyre with 1.7mm will pass. How long do you think it will take before that tyre is dangerous?

A tyre at 1.7 mm is already dangerous enough.

Toyotafanboi

nc19 wrote: »

You are correct. Bald tyres do not pass NCT. The legal limit is 1.6mm. A tyre with 1.7mm will pass. How long do you think it will take before that tyre is dangerous?

that same 1.7mm tyre would pass on a 2011 car.

Special Circumstances

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

that same 1.7mm tyre would pass on a 2011 car.

It'll just take twice as long to fail nct on a car less than 10 years old....

To Elland Back

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The insurance companies should lean on the government to reform claim law, it's a joke. It's simply being kept afloat by shyster, ambulance chasing solicitors and drunk, insane judges who hand out money and it looks like they're getting a cut, how else can it be explained?
Payouts are silly and encourage exaggerated claims and scamsters.
Now even with the law the way it is, there still is no payout for false or exaggerated claims. So if insurance companies clamped down on easy settlements, this could all be sorted.
I already know the next argument: "But it costs more to fight a claim!".
A, not if you win and B, once it becomes known that clutching your neck will not automatically make money rain down on you from the sky, but that your claim will be scrutinized, assessed and rejected if not up to scratch, plus if people know it will cost them years of legal fighting to get their payout, that €20k suddenly doesn't look so appetizing anymore.
If the solicitor tells them "Yeah, well, they usually piss about for a while, but that money is as good as in the bank", vs. "Payouts aren't as easy to come by anymore, insurance companies have really tightened the lid on the money jar and if you get a payout, it won't come easy, I would think twice claiming about that sore neck unless you want a legal fight on your hands and if it doesn't go your way, it will cost you more than you could have won. Walk away now is my advise"
The problem is, insurance companies think just pissing money on the problem will fix it. That is like putting out fire with petrol.

What you've quoted there is ineffective government, shyster solicitors, inept judiciary, and incompetent Injuries Board (who set most awards) and you want insurers to defend 'slam dunk' rear end accidents where the plaintiff cites soft tissue damage???

Not going to happen

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Sh1tbag OToole

How many companies are left that will insure 15+ year old cars on a single policy?

How hard is it to start up your own insurance company? I suppose you need 100's of millions lying around, you need to attend a few Bilderberg meetings and know the Freemasons secret handshake, or you just need to be a well known business typhoon with wearing a permanent disingenuous smile and is good friends with many politicians?

I read recently that back in the olden days it was possible to make a large deposit (many 1000's) with the high court and you would be exempted, this is still possible but now some minister needs to give you a personal seal of approval before you can do this

Bongalongherb

Sure what good is the NCT ? and my car has recently passed and is road-worthy but now I cannot get my 1999 mitsubishi insured. I can't afford a new car at this time, and whats the point in trying to buy a 12 or older year car when you will have to get it scrapped a couple of years down the line.

Is this even legal for insurance companies to implement this insane policy ?. Well, I can see many folk from the 250,000 that have cars older than 15 years driving without insurance because of this kick in the coujons. Why the hell did I even bother to pay for my recent NCT and new tyres.

My own insurance company quoted me €200 higher than last year. This is getting ridiculous. It's just a scam again to get more money out of folk.

Well they have to run their company, they need the money coming in from somewhere is why they are keeping their own customers with older than 15 year vehicles. Obviously dearer. Scammers they are themselves.

Independent.ie

The exclusion only applies to new customers, the companies said, adding that existing clients whose cars had passed the threshold would continue to get insurance cover.

dr.fuzzenstein

That's definitely going to happen. Can't get insurance but can't change car? Well, fcuk 'em, just drive without.

Bongalongherb

This is a very bad way of doing things in business, as they are going to create an intergalactic kegger with this insanity. Sometimes I just have to let out a long breath and tell myself that there is no other way to be than insane, just like the rest of them. The joys of living in an asylum.

The government need to step in and sort this craziness out. It's like waking up to read the news in the Twilight Zone.

I'm just waiting at this time for the bedroom tax to come in soon to make things even more detrimental to my health.

SligoBrewer

I just checked my own insurance there out of interest, gone from ~ €750 to €2400. Not up until November luckily but...

Bongalongherb

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I just checked my own insurance there out of interest, gone from ~ €750 to €2400. Not up until November luckily but...

LOL, you cannot be serious. I'll have to use the word 'Insane' again. That's coming up a lot lately. Madness.

To Elland Back

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Well they have to run their company, they need the money coming in from somewhere is why they are keeping their own customers with older than 15 year vehicles. Obviously dearer. Scammers they are themselves.

Independent.ie

Insurers are obliged to offer renewal terms to their policyholders. They will price it in the hope you move elsewhere. They don't really want you to pay the increased premium and stay with them

waxon-waxoff

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Lets discriminate against the young and the poor like?

The actuaries run their programs and take your address and occupation into account so yeah, they already are profiling people and discriminating.

Mycroft H

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Tis a wonder ye aren't all dead already in NZ, all them turbo subarus, saints preserve us all, 2.5 pertol turbo? Death machines, every one of them.

Imagine a world where the insurance grouping of tdi Citroen C5 was transparent and relatively consistent, and easily compared to other cars.. rather than being classed as "high performance" (LOL!) as found by a poster on here recently.

Imagine if all the major players in the Irish market were also players in the UK market? Imagine if the cars sold in the Irish market were similar as makes no difference to the cars sold here?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/insurance/car-insurance-groups/

Does anyone think the UK insurance groups transfer to Ireland? Citroen C5 VTR -Group 23, with 50 being highest risk, is "high performance" LOLz...

That was me. It was either Axa or Aviva. I rang them both that day. Too big an engine and it was classed as a high performance car. We're going to loose a hell of a lot of nice cars off the road now. The ones that are between the ages of classic and 15 years old. :mad:

And it's not like it's an unsafe car. Top Euro NCAP. ABS/EBD and 8 Airbags. I'd prefer to crash in it than a Dacia Sandero or something like it.

Special Circumstances

Two things sum up the state of this country.

It is not enough to make a profit - you must make a killing.

It is not enough to succeed - others must fail.

dr.fuzzenstein

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Two things sum up the state of this country.

It is not enough to make a profit - you must make a killing.

It is not enough to succeed - others must fail.

+1000! Just look at anyone in the "special" and protected professions.
And if you can't succeed, don't bother to compete, instead whinge, moan, strike, lobby the government and launch lawsuits or just resort to dirty tactics.
Remember: It's against the law that any Irish person should get a good, fair deal! Once you got the market cornered, you can squeeze and squeeze. All the while moaning loudly how hard it is to turn a profit. The poor mouth in full flight.

Special Circumstances

Regretting posting that now, bit melodramatic, but fck it tis no country for car enthusiasts.

Daaryl

When i tried to insure my audi, Bear in mind it's only a 100bhp 1.9tdi and they told me it's a high performance car, Are they genuinely retarded

dr.fuzzenstein

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Regretting posting that now, bit melodramatic, but fck it tis no country for car enthusiasts.

But it's absolutely correct.
This new policy won't do sh*t.
What it means now, is that all the people driving 15 year old cars will go and buy 10 year old cars. Then the insurance companies statistics will "suddenly" show that 10 year old cars are the cause of all accidents.
So no insurance for cars over 10 year old cars. Maybe their customer profile will then shift to mostly 5 year old cars. Guess what? Suddenly they are the root of all evil!
The insurance companies are just wheeling out lazy, flawed, stupid arguments in order to bilk people for money. The stats used for backing those up are suspect to say the least. It's the 4 wheel argument. it's spurious reasoning, it's the Bear Tax, it's a Tiger Rock, it's the Emperor's new clothes.
It's using a lie and playing dumb when called on it.

The end result they are after is what the government cannot force you to do: Everyone to drive cars no more than 5 years old, from one of 5 mainstream manufacturers, all within the same class and similar engines, i.e. nothing over 2 liters, nothing over 150 bhp (high powered and high performance in their eyes), but ideally nothing over 1.6 or 100 bhp (already dangerous territory). All L drivers in nothing bigger than a Polo with no more than 1.0 liters and below 70 bhp. Once you are very old and very rich, you can then drive a Merc, but I don't see anything over 2.5 liters even being quoted in the future.
So, from Polo to Golf to Passat and if you want to insure anything outside of those classes or any "exotic" make (like Honda), well, the law states they "have" to quote you, but what good is it if the quote is in excess of €5k?
Then everytime we go to any country like Germany, we'll point with our mouths open and say "Jaysis, look at dat! 2.5 liters! The insanity! Stand well back, this death machine could explode any second!"

Sh1tbag OToole

Was able to get a reasonable quote for a single policy on a 24 year old car today, so things are not terrible bad once the industry doesnt decide to follow. Maybe some insurance companies will realise that old cars are not so bad after all

Bongalongherb

I'm wasting my time here doing online quotes, as when I ask for the quote after giving all details required, I get... sorry, but we cannot give you a quote at this time, please call blah blah blah number.

I never had a problem looking for quotes before online. It's all messed up now.

carzony

Can't understand why they just don't ask for proof of nct on older cars. My neighbour has a 96 corolla and they threatened to cancel his policy unless he provided an nct cert.

This would make more sense that refusing or robbing people who drive older cars. Another money making scam from the insurance industry ffs

Bongalongherb

carzony wrote: »

Can't understand why they just don't ask for proof of nct on older cars. My neighbour has a 96 corolla and they threatened to cancel his policy unless he provided an nct cert.

This would make more sense that refusing or robbing people who drive older cars. Another money making scam from the insurance industry ffs

You would think they would do that instead seeing that it is the most logical thing to do. If they had brains they would be dangerous. There is one insurance company that actually does this instead, it's AXA, but they quoted me €899 for third party fire & theft lol. Not a chance would I pay that.

I was only paying €435 two years ago, and it went up to €565 last year, now €899. The greed of them all.

CJhaughey

The system needs to be reformed.
NZ has a system much the same as the rest of Europe called no-fault, this is why insurance is much much cheaper than Ireland.
But if the Troika couldn't get the legal system to reform during their period of overlordism what chance do the people of Ireland have to change it.
No lump sums being paid out instead pay someone a monthly or yearly payout and it stops the chancers trying to win the insurance lotto.
I don't think they would be bothered if the payout was paid over their lifetime instead of in one whack.
The chances of being caught by investigators working or playing football after suffering "serious lifechanging" injuries would be too high.

Eric Cartman

CJhaughey wrote: »

The system needs to be reformed.
NZ has a system much the same as the rest of Europe called no-fault, this is why insurance is much much cheaper than Ireland.
But if the Troika couldn't get the legal system to reform during their period of overlordism what chance do the people of Ireland have to change it.
No lump sums being paid out instead pay someone a monthly or yearly payout and it stops the chancers trying to win the insurance lotto.
I don't think they would be bothered if the payout was paid over their lifetime instead of in one whack.
The chances of being caught by investigators working or playing football after suffering "serious lifechanging" injuries would be too high.

I think a system of sending medical bills to the insurance company and your cash payout after that being paid over your life but based on your existing income would help a lot. Theres a lot more personal injury claims made by people earning under 20k than there is earning over.

TallGlass

Daaryl wrote: »

When i tried to insure my audi, Bear in mind it's only a 100bhp 1.9tdi and they told me it's a high performance car, Are they genuinely retarded

They told me that my 00 1.4 Toyota Corolla was a high performance car, keep in mind I have drove an Evolution 4 before. So found it quite funny when he said that. Wasn't having a go at him but told him if I wanted to drive a high performance car I certainly wouldn't have an interest in a 1.4 Corolla.

Alun

What makes this whole thing even worse, is that not only is it making insurance for existing owners of older cars more expensive, but by extension it's making them more difficult to sell even if you did want to in order to buy a new model. A double whammy.

Bongalongherb

Well, it's time to take a break from online quotes. Spent enough of my time filling in all the details but only to get rejected at the very end.

The only one out of 6 so far that gave me a quote was AXA, but as was said already the price is ridiculous. Will try a few more in a while.

Voodoomelon

Perhaps a silly question, but is it possible to insure your car with an insurance company outside of Ireland? You can do it with all kinds of other insurance (home, business, activity, travel), what about motor? Would it be cheaper?

beauf

Alun wrote: »

What makes this whole thing even worse, is that not only is it making insurance for existing owners of older cars more expensive, but by extension it's making them more difficult to sell even if you did want to in order to buy a new model. A double whammy.

It will make people hang on to cars and spend nothing on the maintenance as they may only get the year out of them before the cost of insurance put them off the road.

Anyone with a car that cheap to run, that they only do low mileage in every year. Might now just get rid of it any use public transport, cycling, or hire a car when they need one. Which will mean no premium, none of the taxes associated with owning a car. Lot of income lost for someone.

Will it reduce the number of cars being kept until they reach classic status I wonder.

toastedpickles

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Perhaps a silly question, but is it possible to insure your car with an insurance company outside of Ireland? You can do it with all kinds of other insurance (home, business, activity, travel), what about motor? Would it be cheaper?

My father done that with a toyota corrola years ago, it cost him something like 5/600 pounds? I was only a wee pickle at the time but i remember him saying the crowds over here were looking for around 1500 for it

Bongalongherb

Surely we have a case here in regards to your vehicle being given a certificate of road-worthiness from the NCT. This just can't be legal what they are doing.

Special Circumstances

beauf wrote: »

Will it reduce the number of cars being kept until they reach classic status I wonder.

Herself has one of the early bmw minis that is in seriously good condition. Genuinely drives like new. Had every intention of driving it practically forever (with a little resting up time when buggies etc are order of the day).

I'm concerned at this stage that classic policies will become harder to get as a result of this sh1tology with normal policies.

The payout from one "hurty neck" would buy you a brand new Dacia with change to spare, really can't fathom how getting rid of 15yr old cars is gonna solve any problems for them.

Bongalongherb

As ToastedPickles said, try British. I'm going to try a load of British insurance companies now just to see what sort of quote I get.

To Elland Back

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Perhaps a silly question, but is it possible to insure your car with an insurance company outside of Ireland? You can do it with all kinds of other insurance (home, business, activity, travel), what about motor? Would it be cheaper?

Any foreign insurer interested in doing business with Irish motorists do it by setting up an Underwriting Agency here and there are quite a few. However, they set their premiums to take in to account our claim conditions

dr.fuzzenstein

To Elland Back wrote: »

Any foreign insurer interested in doing business with Irish motorists do it by setting up an Underwriting Agency here and there are quite a few. However, they set their premiums to take in to account our claim conditions

That's the thing. If you went on a UK (or German or other) insurance site, it would hardly quote you for an Irish car, you would have to go to the Irish subsidiary here and they will quote in line with everyone else. So that's out the window.
If we were really serious about all this EU malarkey, we would allow any insurance company to quote pan-European, so we could get quotes from any other EU country.
The problem is, they would do that for a year, then find out that every owie here gets a €20k payout and faster than you can say "Versicherungsbetrug", there would be clauses like "excluding Ireland" or "25% surcharge applies in ROI".
And the feudal, unaccountable, shored up and protected legal system in Ireland is not likely to change in the near future, judges and barristers still lord it up 19th century style. They have come up with a nice racket for themselves (notice how they very carefully keep quiet about the inner workings of their little clique) so they will keep shtum while they enjoy la dolce vita. If anything the state did really touched them, we could expect a racket from them that would make the water protest seem tame in comparison. A dog will only yelp when your kick was on target. (I don't advocate kicking dogs btw)

BuffyBot

I drive a 01. My renewal comes up in September: it'll be interesting to see what figures I get. It's only got 70k miles and compared to some on the road, it's practically in pristine condition.

It is madness on the insurance companies behalf to do this: it'll take only one company to come along to take a different tack (or start a 15yrs+ sub brand) and start stealing a large chunk of business from them. Let's hope one of them has that idea, and soon.

Bongalongherb

At least Liberty insurance and FBD at least gave me a quote after all that. Liberty €699.32. FBD €723. ARB Underwriting €718. All third party fire & theft. Too out there on planet greed for my liking. And off I go to do a few more till I see something reasonable.

The joys of motoring.

Liam McPoyle

BuffyBot wrote: »

I drive a 01. My renewal comes up in September: it'll be interesting to see what figures I get. It's only got 70k miles and compared to some on the road, it's practically in pristine condition.

It is madness on the insurance companies behalf to do this: it'll take only one company to come along to take a different tack (or start a 15yrs+ sub brand) and start stealing a large chunk of business from them. Let's hope one of them has that idea, and soon.

Setanta entered the Irish market and provided a service that was against the grain with other insurers a number of years ago.

They did things like accepting no claims bonus up to 3 years after expiry as opposed to two, allowing customers to mirror their bonus from another vehicle in order to get cheaper premiums and accepting drivers with licences outside of EU member States.

Their pricing was also very cheap - averaged €300 for comp for drivers with a full bonus, they took on alot of non standard motors e.g. Jap imports.

They ended up going bankrupt because what they were taking in on their premiums was not nearly enough to cover what they were paying out in claims.

People can wax lyrical and wring their hands all they want about the big bad insurance companies trying to fcuk people over but the fact of the matter is that we have fcuked ourselves over due to the massive number of claims that have been made and continue to be made, the injuries board and courts have fcuked us over by making ridiculous payouts for claims the rule rather than the exception.

At the end of the day insurers need to protect their interests and in turn their customers interests by ensuring they can cover the claims, that is the hard reality and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

beauf

Business Cat wrote: »

... the fact of the matter is that we have fcuked ourselves over due to the massive number of claims that have been made and continue to be made,....

You might include yourself in that "we". But I don't. In my limited experience the insurance and industry bring this on themselves. Its not the average joe thats causing this. Its the scammers and those abusing the system. How many times do we hear about people with no insurance, or having a past history of multiple claims? Getting payouts. Can't seem to penalise them, but the average joe seems to get hit for the car being too old or new, the driver being too old or too young. They forced people into smaller and older cars. Now they are being penalised too.

People need to move to dash cams and data loggers.

Voodoomelon

Not related to cars as such, but I know a chap who got his finger jammed between two wheely bins at work, he broke it and his nail fell off. Of course it grew back and his finger was in a splint for a few weeks. Nasty and unfortunate. Couldn't believe my ears when I heard he got €21,000 claiming off the employer. Disgraceful.

kyote00

The last official private insurance statistics I can find show that the trend in number of collisions and payout costs was reducing up to 2010....

Anyone know where the stats for last year are ?

http://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/stats/motorins/Pages/releases.aspx

[Also, wasnt there legislation brought in some years about to ensure payout costs were capped at certain levels ]

Hard to understand the across the board rise in costs...my insurance went up this year also... and I'm an old 'foogie' with a clean driving history of 25 years....

Liam McPoyle

beauf wrote: »

You might include yourself in that "we". But I don't. In my limited experience the insurance and industry bring this on themselves. Its not the average joe thats causing this. Its the scammers and those abusing the system. How many times do we hear about people with no insurance, or having a past history of multiple claims? Getting payouts. Can't seem to penalise them, but the average joe seems to get hit for the car being too old or new, the driver being too old or too young. They forced people into smaller and older cars. Now they are being penalised too.

People need to move to dash cams and data loggers.

The random scum bags that crash into people don't get payouts, if a history of fraud is uncovered then you can bet your arse an insurer won't pay out.

However the innocent Joe that gets t-boned by the random scum bag still has to get compensated.

I could have 20 convictions, get a policy and crash into someone.

The company won't pay me a cent but as they are "insurer concerned" at the time of the accident they are legally bound to pay the costs for the person I hit.

They can of course pursue me for the costs but if I'm that much of a scum bag to fraudulently obtain insurance I'm not going to worry too much about that, am I.

Look, the system is far from perfect as it is, I'm fully aware of that however for people to lay the blame at the feet of insurance companies is simply put, wrong.

You say yourself you have limited experience with the industry yet somehow, your limited experience results in you concluding it's all the company's fault, how does that make sense!!!

Liam McPoyle

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Not related to cars as such, but I know a chap who got his finger jammed between two wheely bins at work, he broke it and his nail fell off. Of course it grew back and his finger was in a splint for a few weeks. Nasty and unfortunate. Couldn't believe my ears when I heard he got €21,000 claiming off the employer. Disgraceful.

That's part of it too, it's not just motor premiums that pay for motor claims, it's ALL claims incurred by an insurer paid out of the same pool of funds.

I mentioned before in another thread in here about a woman that fell outside a football club, after drinking 10 pints I might add, and she broke her leg. She sued the club and got a €38k payout.

In what world is that fair?

It's certainly not a world created by insurance companies, I can tell you that for sure.

And yet it's the insurance companies that are the bad guys.

Liam McPoyle

kyote00 wrote: »

The last official private insurance statistics I can find show that the trend in number of collisions and payout costs was reducing up to 2010....

Anyone know where the stats for last year are ?

http://www.centralbank.ie/polstats/stats/motorins/Pages/releases.aspx

[Also, wasnt there legislation brought in some years about to ensure payout costs were capped at certain levels ]

Hard to understand the across the board rise in costs...my insurance went up this year also... and I'm an old 'foogie' with a clean driving history of 25 years....

Don't know about payouts but year on year road deaths have increased since 2012, which coincided with the beginning of our economic recovery.

More jobs = more cars on the road = more accidents = more fatalities/catastrophic injury claims = higher costs for insurers = increased costs for drivers.

I will give an example of a claim I saw a couple of years ago.

It involved a young driver and resulted in 2 fatalities.

Last I saw approx €1.3 million had been paid with a further reserve of €700k.

For one accident.

Extrapolate that out for the near 200 fatalities on our roads last year.

Even for a conservative estimate of €500k per death that's still €100m.

And that's excluding every other claim in the country, motor and non motor.

But ya, it's the insurance companies trying to ride people.

kuro2k

The change in policy is only a problem if people accept it... Apparently 250,000 drivers may be affected, in reality I guess 100% of drivers has a parent, brother, relation, friend or even neighbour who drives a 15 + year old car

After reading the thread I feel some posters have forgotten that life can change in an instant, just because you have a 152 today doesn't mean you can afford it tomorrow!

It really is time to draw a line and say NO... Anyone who chooses to use either company for any insurance product for the sake of saving a few quid is mad...