Ireland u20 2016 6Nations/Junior World Cup

The Lost Sheep

sfbdqc wrote: »

there is how many connacht players playing Ireland u20? 5?

what about all the lads from leinster, munster and ulster? what is his responsibility with them as coach of Ireland u20?

He should be evaluated by winning games as u20 coach, not something that can't be measured i.e long term player development of players he only coaches for a season maybe 2.

The results of the 20s don't totally matter. Winning isn't the most important thing at this level. Its a development grade.
What do you think his responsibility to those players is. Its to help develop them as much as possible. Winning games isn't the primary focus at 20s. If it was then players wouldn't be held back by provinces to play higher grades of rugby. If winning was most important then all eligible and available to play would be involved.

These are our finishing places going back quite a few years.
u20
2008 9th, 2009 8th, 2010 9th, 2011 8th, 2012 5th, 2013 8th, 2014 4th, 2015 7th
u19
1997 4th, 1998 1st, 1999 4th, 2000 5th, 2001 9th, 2002 9th, 2003 5th
2004 11th/12th, 2005 9th, 2006 5th, 2007 9th
u21
1999 8th, 2000 ???, 2001 5th, 2002 6th, 2003 9th, 2004 2nd, 2005 9th
2006 6th

Results are not the primary factor to get out of these competitions considering they are focused on development. How many pros we get out of these teams. How many internationals. Of those who don't stay in pro game immediately how many come back in at maybe 23/24.

The Lost Sheep

Team to play England
15. Jack Power (UCD/Leinster)
14. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
13. Shane Daly (Cork Constitution/Munster)
12. Jimmy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
11. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
10. Johnny McPhillips (Queen's University/Ulster)
9. Stephen Kerins (Sligo/Connacht)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)
2. Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
3. Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/Connacht)
4. Peter Claffey (Galwegians/Connacht)
5. James Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) (capt)
6. Cillian Gallagher (Sligo/Connacht)
7. Will Connors (UCD/Leinster)
8. Greg Jones (UCD/Leinster)
Replacements:
16. Shane Fenton (Young Munster/Munster)
17. James Bollard (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Ben Betts (Young Munster/Munster)
19. Sean O'Connor (Cashel/Munster)
20. Kelvin Brown (Shannon/Munster)
21. John Poland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22. Brett Connon (Newcastle Falcons/Exiles)
23. Matthew Byrne (Terenure College/Leinster)

Not Considered -
Max Deegan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - injured
John Foley (Shannon/Munster) - injured
Conor Kenny (Buccaneers/Connacht) - injured
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - involved with Ulster
Robert Lyttle (Queen's University/Ulster) - involved with Ulster

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Team to play England
15. Jack Power (UCD/Leinster)
14. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
13. Shane Daly (Cork Constitution/Munster)
12. Jimmy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
11. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
10. Johnny McPhillips (Queen's University/Ulster)
9. Stephen Kerins (Sligo/Connacht)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)
2. Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
3. Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/Connacht)
4. Peter Claffey (Galwegians/Connacht)
5. James Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) (capt)
6. Cillian Gallagher (Sligo/Connacht)
7. Will Connors (UCD/Leinster)
8. Greg Jones (UCD/Leinster)
Replacements:
16. Shane Fenton (Young Munster/Munster)
17. James Bollard (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Ben Betts (Young Munster/Munster)
19. Sean O'Connor (Cashel/Munster)
20. Kelvin Brown (Shannon/Munster)
21. John Poland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22. Brett Connon (Newcastle Falcons/Exiles)
23. Matthew Byrne (Terenure College/Leinster)

Not Considered -
Max Deegan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - injured
John Foley (Shannon/Munster) - injured
Conor Kenny (Buccaneers/Connacht) - injured
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - involved with Ulster
Robert Lyttle (Queen's University/Ulster) - involved with Ulster

Good to see Connors back at 7 but how Jones is ahead of Brown at 8 is a shocker, Still prefer to see O'Brien at 13 with Byrne or Kennedy on the wing.

sfbdqc

Sticking with McPhillips? Really?

sfbdqc

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The results of the 20s don't totally matter. Winning isn't the most important thing at this level. Its a development grade.
What do you think his responsibility to those players is. Its to help develop them as much as possible. Winning games isn't the primary focus at 20s. If it was then players wouldn't be held back by provinces to play higher grades of rugby. If winning was most important then all eligible and available to play would be involved.

These are our finishing places going back quite a few years.
u20
2008 9th, 2009 8th, 2010 9th, 2011 8th, 2012 5th, 2013 8th, 2014 4th, 2015 7th
u19
1997 4th, 1998 1st, 1999 4th, 2000 5th, 2001 9th, 2002 9th, 2003 5th
2004 11th/12th, 2005 9th, 2006 5th, 2007 9th
u21
1999 8th, 2000 ???, 2001 5th, 2002 6th, 2003 9th, 2004 2nd, 2005 9th
2006 6th

Results are not the primary factor to get out of these competitions considering they are focused on development. How many pros we get out of these teams. How many internationals. Of those who don't stay in pro game immediately how many come back in at maybe 23/24.

Under Carolan this team will be lucky to win a game in the 6 nations..
Winning is important, it can be done alongside player development. But apparently not by Carolan.

Tarf1234

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Good to see Connors back at 7 but how Jones is ahead of Brown at 8 is a shocker, Still prefer to see O'Brien at 13 with Byrne or Kennedy on the wing.

Agree on all of the above. Really disappointed if I'm honest with that team. Surely someone else deserves a run at 10? McPhilips has been woeful. Would have loved to see Terry Kennedy on the wing.

Number 137

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Is there much of a difference in the number of players who are full academy members this year compared to previous years?

It isn't if it helps produce better all round players and his success in Connacht shows that his approach is successful.
Again the success of these sides is not how many games are won or lost.

Comparing the squad initially announced for this year's Six Nations and last year's initial Six Nations squad, there are 5 academy players in this year's squad while last year there were 16. Again, open to correction on this.

sfbdqc

Number 137 wrote: »

Comparing the squad initially announced for this year's Six Nations and last year's initial Six Nations squad, there are 5 academy players in this year's squad while last year there were 16. Again, open to correction on this.

last years squad had a lot of experience.. they were uncommon.. this is what it's usually like

sfbdqc

Experience levels:
15. Jack Power - 2nd year out of school
14. Hugo Keenan - 2nd year out of school
13. Shane Daly - 1st year out of school
12. Jimmy O'Brien - 1st year out of school
11. Conor O'Brien - 2nd year out of school
10. Johnny McPhillips - 1st year out of school
9. Stephen Kerins - 1st year out of school
1. Andrew Porter - 2nd year out of school
2. Adam McBurney - 2nd year out of school
3. Conan O'Donnell - 2nd year out of school
4. Peter Claffey - 2nd year out of school
5. James Ryan - 1st year out of school
6. Cillian Gallagher - 1st year out of school
7. Will Connors - 1st year out of school
8. Greg Jones - 2nd year out of school
Replacements:
16. Shane Fenton - 1st year out of school
17. James Bollard - 2nd year out of school
18. Ben Betts - 2nd year out of school
19. Sean O'Connor - 1st year out of school
20. Kelvin Brown - 2nd year out of school
21. John Poland - 1st year out of school
22. Brett Connon - 1st year out of school
23. Matthew Byrne - 2nd year out of school

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Team to play England
15. Jack Power (UCD/Leinster)
14. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
13. Shane Daly (Cork Constitution/Munster)
12. Jimmy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
11. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
10. Johnny McPhillips (Queen's University/Ulster)
9. Stephen Kerins (Sligo/Connacht)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)
2. Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
3. Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/Connacht)
4. Peter Claffey (Galwegians/Connacht)
5. James Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) (capt)
6. Cillian Gallagher (Sligo/Connacht)
7. Will Connors (UCD/Leinster)
8. Greg Jones (UCD/Leinster)
Replacements:
16. Shane Fenton (Young Munster/Munster)
17. James Bollard (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Ben Betts (Young Munster/Munster)
19. Sean O'Connor (Cashel/Munster)
20. Kelvin Brown (Shannon/Munster)
21. John Poland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22. Brett Connon (Newcastle Falcons/Exiles)
23. Matthew Byrne (Terenure College/Leinster)

Not Considered -
Max Deegan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - injured
John Foley (Shannon/Munster) - injured
Conor Kenny (Buccaneers/Connacht) - injured
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - involved with Ulster
Robert Lyttle (Queen's University/Ulster) - involved with Ulster

No mention of Sam Arnold either "injured" or "involved with Ulster" - Anyone know what the story is?

sfbdqc

Stainalert wrote: »

No mention of Sam Arnold either "injured" or "involved with Ulster" - Anyone know what the story is?

must not be involved this year at all.

Stainalert

sfbdqc wrote: »

must not be involved this year at all.

He's underage and came on for Ulster last weekend - great prospect

case885

No mention of Paul kiernan?
Surprised Poland is dropped, thought he was very good for us.

sfbdqc

case885 wrote: »

No mention of Paul kiernan?
Surprised Poland is dropped, thought he was very good for us.

bizarre he was dropped and mcphillips keeps his place.

typhoony

Poland has been quite good but listening to Donal Lenihan gushing over him you'd think he'd be the next Conor Murray. no suprise there from a Munster commentator.

this year's brood seem an average lot, even witha few notable abscenses I can't see many of these achieving high level in senior rugby, possibly Ryan being the only one with genuine aspirations/potential to be a very good player. He looks like he has the scope to fill out his frame a fair bit more and he's got good skills and intelligence. probably end up as a backrow player

sfbdqc

typhoony wrote: »

Poland has been quite good but listening to Donal Lenihan gushing over him you'd think he'd be the next Conor Murray. no suprise there from a Munster commentator.

this year's brood seem an average lot, even witha few notable abscenses I can't see many of these achieving high level in senior rugby, possibly Ryan being the only one with genuine aspirations/potential to be a very good player. He looks like he has the scope to fill out his frame a fair bit more and he's got good skills and intelligence. probably end up as a backrow player

Ryan end up as a backrow? What? He is at least 6'7, the lad is going to be a second row and hopefully a very good one.

The team is chronically under performing.. and really lacks an outhalf to give them direction on the field because Carolan does not given them that from the sidelines.

sfbdqc

Stainalert wrote: »

He's underage and came on for Ulster last weekend - great prospect

I know, I was saying that he must not be involved with the 20 setup at all this year due to provincial commitments.

Number 137

I would imagine there was no mention of Arnold as he was not named in the original squad. So perhaps they don't feel the need to give an availability update. He could yet feature either later in the campaign or at the JWC.

Yeah_Right

Is the U20 game on TV tonight? Haven't been able to find on any listings. If not, will it be on the IRFU website?

sfbdqc

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Is the U20 game on TV tonight? Haven't been able to find on any listings. If not, will it be on the IRFU website?

sky have it. 6.05pm

gazump123

7-0 to England. Try came from a maul.

Hagz

Ireland are making some of the most elementary errors I've seen at this level.

Akrasia

20-6 to England after 45 mins. England just down to 14 for 10 minutes. Ireland 3 more minutes with 14

Akrasia

Ireland not really at the races today

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Ireland not really at the races today

And having said that, we just scored a try off a lineout

Conversion missed 20 - 11 to England

matthew8

Ireland should really be ahead, missed kicks and silly mistakes costing us. We certainly seem to be on top most of the time.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

And having said that, we just scored a try off a lineout

Conversion missed 20 - 11 to England

And another try. 20 - 16

matthew8

Another try for Ireland, messy situation very well salvaged by the backs. New kicker and he makes the touchline conversion, 20-18 England sin bin nearly over.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

And another try. 20 - 16

Lovely conversion with a new kicker. 20 - 18

Akrasia

Referee decides to ping Ireland for a crooked feed to the scrum. England get a scrum where they feed crooked and tell ref gives them a penalty

ArmchairQB

Interesting how much better we are when a Byrne a natural winger and Conor O'Brien at centre who has been playing senior rugby at centre. That's how they should have started, I would put the Shannon 8 on now

Akrasia

Ireland very lucky to not give away a try. Player not held in the tackle but deemed otherwise

wp_rathead

don't see much wrong with that english try tbh
should have been awarded

Hagz

Stephen Kerins looks very neat at SH.

ArmchairQB

wp_rathead wrote: »

don't see much wrong with that english try tbh
should have been awarded

+1

matthew8

Ireland take the lead with a try. This is some comeback. English try absolutely should have been awarded.

typhoony

sublime offload by Ryan, he got skillz

wp_rathead

Ryan what an offload!!!!

Akrasia

ArmchairQB wrote: »

+1

Lovely counter attack try for Ireland to put tgem into the lead. 20 - 23

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Lovely counter attack try for Ireland to put tgem into the lead. 20 - 23

Conversion missed. Bad miss from there

Hagz

James Ryan is making it really difficult to keep the hype train in check.

wp_rathead

conversion missed
feck

errlloyd

Is this Ryan chap from Leinster? He's unreal.

JPCN1

Ryan looks a real prospect. Great stuff from Ireland.

errlloyd

Yes, the double chip. Love that

matthew8

This has really been domination by Ireland.

wp_rathead

ohhhhhhhh, potential yellow

Akrasia

Red card for England for a tip tackle

typhoony

• make that a red, penalty converted

Akrasia

Penalty Ireland 20 - 26