Ireland u20 2016 6Nations/Junior World Cup

godzillaie

9 exiles played for Ireland underage this year:

1 Prop: Fergus O'Brien(U18)
1 Backrow: Jonjo Fanning(U18)
2 Scrumhalves: Niall Saunders(U19/U20), Alex Crocker(U18)
1 Outhalf: Johnny McPhillips(U20)
1 Centre: James Newey(U18)
3 Back Three: Brett Connon(U20), Conor Wharton(U18), Ollie Brown (U18)

Tarf1234

I don't have a problem on an individual basis and no problem with it on a theoretical basis but I think it says something pretty awful about what we are doing if we can't produce players of a high enough calibre to play this level. 1 OH from a year is not good to see, particularly seeing as he is a year young so in essence there is no Irish produced OT this age group. If we're honest the chances are if these guys were good enough they'd be playing for England in general.

I like the exiles system and have no issue with exiles playing for Ireland.

godzillaie

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I don't have a problem on an individual basis and no problem with it on a theoretical basis but I think it says something pretty awful about what we are doing if we can't produce players of a high enough calibre to play this level. 1 OH from a year is not good to see, particularly seeing as he is a year young so in essence there is no Irish produced OT this age group. If we're honest the chances are if these guys were good enough they'd be playing for England in general.

I like the exiles system and have no issue with exiles playing for Ireland.

yeah it's a poor year in terms of the provinces developing homegrown scrumhalves and outhalves at this age group.

Leinster have had a player at each position at u20 level nearly every year and this year they don't.

Connon woudn't be there if it wasn't for injury both to Johnston and Jack Power.
Saunders is viewed as the best irish scrumhalf at his age grade - 1997. Now is that because he is excellent or because how poorly irish rugby is at developing scrumhalves i'm not sure.

Zzippy

godzillaie wrote: »

None of the provinces could produce a decent outhalf for the 1996 age group.

F*ck me I feel old now!

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Also, 3 English lads in the starting backline is a terrible sign.

Saying English lads is a bit unfair... Exiles are normally quite strong at under 18 level and then as some get offers from premiership/other sides in England we don't see them as much at under 19/20 level. Great to see more coming through

Zzippy wrote: »

Why? We have a large diaspora, and if it's a sign of young Irish lads living abroad wanting to come back and play for us, and that the Exiles system is working, why would we turn them down? Unless you're suggesting that they have no Irish heritage (I don't know, TBH) and we're poaching underage foreign talent...

We're not poaching anything and you have to be irish qualified to play for them and therefore anyone playing will have irish parents/grandparents. Its a good system to have

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I don't have a problem on an individual basis and no problem with it on a theoretical basis but I think it says something pretty awful about what we are doing if we can't produce players of a high enough calibre to play this level. 1 OH from a year is not good to see, particularly seeing as he is a year young so in essence there is no Irish produced OT this age group. If we're honest the chances are if these guys were good enough they'd be playing for England in general.

I like the exiles system and have no issue with exiles playing for Ireland.

I don't think you can say we're doing anything wrong just because in 1 specific age group that 2 players for a main position are exiles players.
I don't think you can say at all that if good enough these players would choose England

kingofthekong

Mathew Gilsenan was the outhalf when this team were u18 what happened to him? injured ? not god enough?. Also is strange to look back and see how players have developed from the FIRA u18s which ireland came second in. Jonny Guy was starting ahead of Greg Jones (a year young), Colm Mulcahy was centre (what happened to him?), and Jordan Larmour started on the wing (exceptional talent).

kingofthekong

Also Charlie Cregan had a great tournament

Zzippy

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We're not poaching anything and you have to be irish qualified to play for them and therefore anyone playing will have irish parents/grandparents. Its a good system to have

That's exactly what I was saying.

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Mathew Gilsenan was the outhalf when this team were u18 what happened to him? injured ? not god enough?. Also is strange to look back and see how players have developed from the FIRA u18s which ireland came second in. Jonny Guy was starting ahead of Greg Jones (a year young), Colm Mulcahy was centre (what happened to him?), and Jordan Larmour started on the wing (exceptional talent).

He was outhalf on the schools side that year. Maybe he simply hasn't progressed like others have. Larmour was still in school so wasn't eligible for 20s.
The youths and exiles players are also eligible for 20s and these wouldn't have been playing on that FIRA team

Zzippy wrote: »

That's exactly what I was saying.

I assumed that and meant to add something else but ....

godzillaie

kingofthekong wrote: »

Mathew Gilsenan was the outhalf when this team were u18 what happened to him? injured ? not god enough?. Also is strange to look back and see how players have developed from the FIRA u18s which ireland came second in. Jonny Guy was starting ahead of Greg Jones (a year young), Colm Mulcahy was centre (what happened to him?), and Jordan Larmour started on the wing (exceptional talent).

Gilsenan failed to improve, ended up as backup 10 for leinster u20 this year.
Mulcahy tore his ACL twice since that tournament.
Larmour and Guy should be involved next year.
Charlie Cregan missed a lot of time with injury.

Everyone bar Larmour played for UCD u20's this season.

Rocko

Have Georgia many changes from the first 2 games?

+32 seems crazy alrite

sydthebeat

dropped to +30 already with us all lumping on it

i reckon it might drop another couple of points before kick off

The Lost Sheep

Rocko wrote: »

Have Georgia many changes from the first 2 games?

+32 seems crazy alrite

They made 10 or 11 changes between the NZ and Welsh games. Reading elsewhere the Georgians are targeting their fourth and fifth games more than these games and they'll have more of their first choice side out against us as they prep to try not finish 12th which I think they will. They'll beat either Italy, Japan if they've to play either.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Saying English lads is a bit unfair... Exiles are normally quite strong at under 18 level and then as some get offers from premiership/other sides in England we don't see them as much at under 19/20 level. Great to see more coming through

We're not poaching anything and you have to be irish qualified to play for them and therefore anyone playing will have irish parents/grandparents. Its a good system to have

I don't think you can say we're doing anything wrong just because in 1 specific age group that 2 players for a main position are exiles players.
I don't think you can say at all that if good enough these players would choose England

I agree to some extent on everything you've said but let's be honest in the majority of cases they are born in the UK and live their whole life their unless they're signed for a province. I would strongly imagine if 90% of them were offered places in English age grade stuff they would take it over exiles.

I agree in relation to your comment on poaching and agree that's it's a good system to have and this year if anything has proved that.

I don't think it's a huge cause for concern was just saying it really is not a great sign and hopefully will not continue.

godzillaie

I'm fairly concerned about todays game.. not much experience at this level in the starting team apart from Greg Jones, Johnny McPhillips & Hugo Keenan.

Will almost certainly need bench to pull out the win.

Tarf1234

godzillaie wrote: »

I'm fairly concerned about todays game.. not much experience at this level in the starting team apart from Greg Jones, Johnny McPhillips & Hugo Keenan.

Will almost certainly need bench to pull out the win.

Definitely think we'll need the bench but it is a very strong bench in fairness and should be the winning of the game. I reckon we'll win by 10-15 with a try or 2 late on.

godzillaie

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Definitely think we'll need the bench but it is a very strong bench in fairness and should be the winning of the game. I reckon we'll win by 10-15 with a try or 2 late on.

Hopefully, I expect the georgia scrum to be dominant given their performance to date.
Think we will win but it will be close.

Bookies are miles off.

sydthebeat

if they get thunderstorms over there, which forecasts are threatening, it could be quite close

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

if they get thunderstorms over there, which forecasts are threatening, it could be quite close

If there are thunderstorms in Manchester I'll go nuts! I'm on my way to the Etihad...

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If there are thunderstorms in Manchester I'll go nuts! I'm on my way to the Etihad...

accuweather has thunderstorms between 5 and 7

http://www.accuweather.com/en/gb/manchester/m15-6/hourly-weather-forecast/329260?hour=17

what time are the roses on at?

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If there are thunderstorms in Manchester I'll go nuts! I'm on my way to the Etihad...

She bangs the drums? Waterfall?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

There was a match the other day had to be called off because of thunder and lightning. They have to wait 30 mins after lightning before returning to the field. In the end they had to agree to continue the match at a later date.

godzillaie

Line now +29

sydthebeat

godzillaie wrote: »

Line now +29

down to +27 now

ClanofLams

James Ryan out as precaution, Cillian Gallagher replaces him on the bench. If anyone was on at +32, wouldn't be bad idea to get on at -27 now. Chances are you'll lose 9% of initial investment doing this but anywhere in the 28-31 range and both bets are up.

irishbucsfan

Score updates would be appreciated

the baby bull elephant

Is this on the red button on sky or just on TG4?

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Score updates would be appreciated

The phrase full credit to Ireland has been said about 15 times by the analysts from Wales and New Zealand. The bitterness is soothing.

Baby blacks coach has gone full Ronaldo "we need to learn to play teams who don't want to play rugby".

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Surely the old fashioned pushy shovey physical style is rugby? This fancy stuff the Kiwis do is something else entirely.

BBDBB

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Is this on the red button on sky or just on TG4?

It's on sky sports4

BBDBB

Ominous scrum from Georgia

BBDBB

Georgia try from the scumhalf

A-Train

Not a great start from Ireland, knock on under no pressure, then poor enough defence for the try!

Hagz

Scrum-Half Saunders looks very good so far.

Kiwi_knock

Nice try.

errlloyd

Keenan gas scores, tough kick to come. 7-5. Tmo checking too

errlloyd

Georgian checked for a punch and kick.

DDC1990

Could be a Red for Georgia as well.

BBDBB

Great finish, try? Tmo


Ref checking for a bit of violent play

A-Train

Try Ireland much better play, some lovely hands.

Georgia player could be in trouble

gavkm27

great try and passage of play despite some hard tackling from georgia

Al_Coholic

Red for that?? Yellow at most was nothing in it

errlloyd

Red card. It was a weak kick, but I think any kick is a red.

matthew8

Georgia +32 backers devastated by a Georgian red card.

BBDBB

That's his afternoon over

Try given

A-Train

Red card 8 mins gone for Geogia player

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Did anyone see a different Georgian player kick an Irish player in the head there?

EDIT: Never mind, saw it from the other angle and he didn't make contact.

BBDBB

Scores level at 7

Was there another kick towards the head just after?

Hagz

A nothing kick but a kick nonetheless.

Stainalert

A-Train wrote: »

Red card 8 mins gone for Geogia player

What was the offence?