hardware versand insolvent

Firefox11

LazyTuna wrote: »

I'll try this first as it seems the most logical. I'm just worried as its a large amount of money I spent.

Yeah, Ive just been on to Paypal and they have opened a case. looks like they could be busy today!

muffler

Firefox11 wrote: »

Got the same mail today. :mad: How did you get your claim back from the credit card company? I was told that I have to fill out a Credit Card Transaction Dispute Form?

I phoned the CC company last Thursday after I became suspicious because of the sellers failure to reply to faxes and emails. I had actually cancelled my order the previous day and asked for confirmation but never got it.

So I told the whole story to the CC rep saying that I wanted my money back and he took details and passed them onto their disputes dept who had my account credited again within 2 days. Im guessing that the CC company probably had other customers on to them at that stage.

Just for the record I paid with PayPal which in turn bills the CC company. So between both of them I was covered I assume.

I do hope everyone else here gets sorted though

Firefox11

muffler wrote: »

I phoned the CC company last Thursday after I became suspicious because of the sellers failure to reply to faxes and emails. I had actually cancelled my order the previous day and asked for confirmation but never got it.

So I told the whole story to the CC rep saying that I wanted my money back and he took details and passed them onto their disputes dept who had my account credited again within 2 days. Im guessing that the CC company probably had other customers on to them at that stage.

Just for the record I paid with PayPal which in turn bills the CC company. So between both of them I was covered I assume.

I do hope everyone else here gets sorted though

Thanks. Looks like Paypal is the best route to take. Even the woman on the phone said that.

.G.

Yeah Paypal will sort out people no problem, I've used their dispute system a few times. If you paid via paypal you are grand, money will be back with you soon. I just hope in future folks will learn from this and make sure they only use payment methods that protect them if things go tits up.

micko45

Got caught for 410 euros. Paid with PayPal and Logged a dispute, so will see how it goes.

agentblue

I bought 1200 worth of stuff but less than half of it arrived today. I'm opening a paypal dispute but now I'm stuck in limbo because half the stuff arrived and I'm worried that they'll put me on the long finger by saying something like the other half will arrive at some undefined time in the future. Not happy.

salamanca22

agentblue wrote: »

I bought 1200 worth of stuff but less than half of it arrived today. I'm opening a paypal dispute but now I'm stuck in limbo because half the stuff arrived and I'm worried that they'll put me on the long finger by saying something like the other half will arrive at some undefined time in the future. Not happy.

It won't arrive, the insolvency agreement they made means that any orders made before will not be honored. What you have got is all you will get. Paypal might not refund you if there is a proof of delivery and HWVS use it. However, your credit card company will issue a chargeback if you press them. This might cause issues with you and paypal though.

agentblue

They sent me a receipt for just the items that they delivered to me so I can provide that to paypal if they need it. In fact, I'll scan that tomorrow and attach it to my dispute file.
Thanks for the heads up.

igorrasic

agentblue wrote: »

They sent me a receipt for just the items that they delivered to me so I can provide that to paypal if they need it. In fact, I'll scan that tomorrow and attach it to my dispute file.
Thanks for the heads up.

I would on your place say that u didnt got anything what u ordered. It would be fair to f*** them too.

wotzgoingon

igorrasic wrote: »

I would on your place say that u didnt got anything what u ordered. It would be fair to f*** them too.

Ah now come on, you have to be fair and honest. I would never pull a stunt like that.

ED E

igorrasic wrote: »

I would on your place say that u didnt got anything what u ordered. It would be fair to f*** them too.

And then the UPS records reject that and you get nothing for attempting to defraud em.

lertsnim

igorrasic wrote: »

I would on your place say that u didnt got anything what u ordered. It would be fair to f*** them too.

Terrible advice. It wouldn't be very hard to prove otherwise and leave yourself open to be done for fraud.

BeardedBadger

Sad to hear this, never personally dealt with them but always kept an eye in their prices and know that they're a bit of a cult favorite on here. Have friends who dealt with them without any problems.

Here's hoping ye all get sorted

Firefox11

People starting to get angry on their facebook page I see.

.G.

agentblue wrote:

I bought 1200 worth of stuff but less than half of it arrived today. I'm opening a paypal dispute but now I'm stuck in limbo because half the stuff arrived and I'm worried that they'll put me on the long finger by saying something like the other half will arrive at some undefined time in the future. Not happy.

I bought something off ebay a few years back, they sent the wrong thing so I disputed it with the company but they ignored me. I opened the dispute with PayPal who contacted the company but they didn't respond to PayPal either so PayPal refunded me the full amount I paid and I was able to keep the thing the company sent me too because they wouldn't answer me!

Barr125

Judas Priest, everyone seems to be in the same boat. I too purchased a crap-ton of stuff, hitting 900e+. Thankfully I paid with Paypal (I never don't, just easier) and just went straight to them after seeing what was happening. Seems like it was the right call, judging by everyone's advice and stories. Good to hear that they're easy to work with and on the job so to speak.

First ever purchase for a new PC and this happens

---

I was just on the Paypal site, checking a few things when I noticed they say that if there's no response from the seller in regards to the claim made after 10 days, they close the case and return all funds back to the rightful owners. So we'll know in 10 days or less.

Solitaire

Forum Announcement up, just in case someone living on a desert island comes back to civilization this week and tries to post someone a HWVS build :eek:

agentblue wrote: »

They sent me a receipt for just the items that they delivered to me so I can provide that to paypal if they need it. In fact, I'll scan that tomorrow and attach it to my dispute file.
Thanks for the heads up.

This is the kind of thinking I like to see

igorrasic wrote: »

I would on your place say that u didnt got anything what u ordered. It would be fair to f*** them too.

This is the kind of thinking that will get people infractions, one of the few things in life that are still free.

To those who would use this tragedy to get some sneaky advertising for their mates in: We weren't born yesterday, and this thread is being watched. No infractions handed out so far... but lets keep it that way, can we?

But back to topic... jesus. I don't even. It can be hard to reconcile the company you knew and loved from yesteryear can go so far downhill, starting very slowly but gathering downward momentum all the while. I imagine a good few veterans here are kicking themselves at the moment - I certainly am. We saw the warning signs and many of us who did business with them during the glory years simply attributed them to temporary hiccups while the wheels were coming off In hindsight its all horribly clear what was going on, the sharp fall in care and attention and the drop in legible English customer support obvious hints to behind-the-scenes cuts and staff reshuffles. My heart goes out to anyone caught up in this mess, because to me and a lot of people here a few hundred quid, much less over a grand, is most certainly not a trivial sum of money to risk losing

Serephucus

Yikes. Time to look for a new Boardsie Best Shop (TM) then, I suppose.

MagTuired

Found some information about insolvency in Germany here. The wording is a bit confusing though.

The preliminary receiver in bankruptcy/administrator assesses the financial situation of the debtor in detail and checks whether there are enough assets and liquidity to cover costs and fees of bankruptcy proceedings itself (court fees, fees of the receiver in bankruptcy/administrator) and for the running business. His task is also to assess whether the progress of business is possible. He file an expert report for the judge and recommend to institute bankruptcy proceedings or to reject it.

Often the bankruptcy court notices that no assets are available to payout anything to the creditor's because there are no assets to open proceedings or conducting bankruptcy proceedings (meaning to pay the receiver in bankruptcy and costs of the court).

In such cases the court orders the end of bankruptcy proceedings by lacking assets to pay proceedings themselves (German wording: "... wird mangels Masse eingestellt" or ... Masseunzulänglichkeit"). Consequence: the company will be winded up and will be deleteted in the commercial register.

If there are assets enough and prospects to run business further on perhaps by changing the structure of the company, the legal form and areas of business (...) the court will order the opening of bankruptcy proceedings (court order). The order appoints a receiver in bankruptcy/administrator too.

By the sound of the e-mail you lads received, they're going to try and go ahead with the business, so if it's not just PR and you get your claims in hopefully it can be resolved.

There's a post on Reddit about it too now, might have some handy info in it.

laneooo

Could u just order something else that is in stock as a from of getting the money back no?

agentblue

laneooo wrote: »

Could u just order something else that is in stock as a from of getting the money back no?

The way I read the Google translation of their email, they want me to buy the components that they didn't send again! Needless to say I won't be doing that.
I'm going to put my faith in paypal now and hope for a speedy resolution. I still have a PC to build after all this mess is over.

salamanca22

laneooo wrote: »

Could u just order something else that is in stock as a from of getting the money back no?

No, hardwareversand is essentially a different entity now than what it was before.

Think of it as a completely new company. They are not obligated to fulfill any orders that were submitted before the insolvency.

The insolvency administrator is there to keep the place going at all costs, this includes not paying out unsecured debts.

laneooo

agentblue wrote: »

The way I read the Google translation of their email, they want me to buy the components that they didn't send again! Needless to say I won't be doing that.
I'm going to put my faith in paypal now and hope for a speedy resolution. I still have a PC to build after all this mess is over.

Yeah no i mean like myself they owe me 371 maybe if i ask to get a monitor or something as i payed by transfer.
What ya think?

TheDoc

Their customer service is poor at the best of times for English speaking customers, I'd imagine they will be through the roof this week with calls and e-mails.

If you paid by paypal or card, open a dispute with your card company and paypal immediately, and get your refund. Paypal insure X amount by default, so they just refund you, and then they go after the credit from the seller, in this case HWVS. They will mass refund paypal customers and go as a heavier creditor with more weight, as opposed to one person on their own who paid bank transfer.

If you paid by bank transfer, my heart literally breaks for yuo. you won't be seeing that money again, as you are in a very long list of creditors, and individual customers are the ones that are easily ignored, as opposed to suppliers wholesalers and when paypal setp in, looking for massive amounts and have legal teams that can turn the screw. Your best best is to try get HWVS to send you something of relative value from the remaining stock they have.

But jesus lads, looking at people here saying they handed over 1k+ in bank transfer and stuff, never send unsecured payments unless its for values you will happily walk away from if its gone. Thats like internet shopping 101, make sure you use a reliable payment method that has cover.

For those who spent big bucks, I'd make sure to keep in touch, try source alternative parts etc. For those who maybe lost out on a small amount, just walk away and take it as a lesson learned for online shopping.

TheDoc

laneooo wrote: »

Yeah no i mean like myself they owe me 371 for maybe if i ask to get a monitor or something as i payed by transfer.
What ya think?

It's worth a shot, but the likelyhood is that they wont do replacements, as it will mean a further hit on their balances and financials which they arn't going to do with an administrator trying to sort the place out.

worth a shot alright, and obviously if it happened to me I'd keep at it and hassling them. But the likelyhood is all customers are going to be sidelined while bigger creditors are sorted out and I'd imagine many back orders are going to left hanging.

laneooo

Feck it sent them an email if i get anywere ill let ya know.

Vicxas

Jesus i was really close to buying a GFX card off them last week, but decided on Amazon.


Wow, dodged a bullet there.

Skerries

other recommended sites are

www.caseking.de
www.cyberport.de
www.mindfactory.de
www.Computeruniverse.de

HowAreWe

Skerries wrote: »

other recommended sites are

www.caseking.de
www.cyberport.de
www.mindfactory.de
www.Computeruniverse.de

Can mindfactory and cyberport be viewed in english? can't seem to find english button anywhere :P

LmnadZ

Skerries wrote: »

other recommended sites are

www.caseking.de
www.cyberport.de
www.mindfactory.de
www.Computeruniverse.de

Just in time for my first PC this happens to hardwaresand:(
I have ordered parts from computeruniverse past weekend,no problem so far.
though shipping charges are annoying.

They all seem to cheaper anyway compared to buying from Ireland.Amazon UK is good too especially with free delivery.

agentblue

TheDoc wrote: »

Their customer service is poor at the best of times for English speaking customers, I'd imagine they will be through the roof this week with calls and e-mails.

If you paid by paypal or card, open a dispute with your card company and paypal immediately, and get your refund. Paypal insure X amount by default, so they just refund you, and then they go after the credit from the seller, in this case HWVS. They will mass refund paypal customers and go as a heavier creditor with more weight, as opposed to one person on their own who paid bank transfer.

If you paid by bank transfer, my heart literally breaks for yuo. you won't be seeing that money again, as you are in a very long list of creditors, and individual customers are the ones that are easily ignored, as opposed to suppliers wholesalers and when paypal setp in, looking for massive amounts and have legal teams that can turn the screw. Your best best is to try get HWVS to send you something of relative value from the remaining stock they have.

But jesus lads, looking at people here saying they handed over 1k+ in bank transfer and stuff, never send unsecured payments unless its for values you will happily walk away from if its gone. Thats like internet shopping 101, make sure you use a reliable payment method that has cover.

For those who spent big bucks, I'd make sure to keep in touch, try source alternative parts etc. For those who maybe lost out on a small amount, just walk away and take it as a lesson learned for online shopping.

So the question is now: do I leave it with PayPal or do I get on to my CC company as well?

Skerries

HowAreWe wrote: »

Can mindfactory and cyberport be viewed in english? can't seem to find english button anywhere :P

view in Chrome and right click and click (translate into English) if it doesn't do it automatically

TheDoc

agentblue wrote: »

So the question is now: do I leave it with PayPal or do I get on to my CC company as well?

No harm opening up cases with both, and advising each of them the course you have taken. They will communicate with each other anyway to sort it out, but doesn't hurt to get in touch with your CC, explained youve opened a case with paypal for this issue(explain what happened) and ask if its advisable to open a case with them also.

muffler

agentblue wrote: »

So the question is now: do I leave it with PayPal or do I get on to my CC company as well?

I had to pay them through Paypal but when things began to look dodgy I took the route of contacting the CC company only and had a full refund within 2 days.

Lemming

Moon54 wrote: »

Scan.co.uk, Amazon.co.uk, Overclockers.co.uk... all have good/great customer
service with reasonable/free delivery charges.

Having read through the whole thread, just wanted to comment on the above. Of the three companies listed I tend to use Scan & Amazon (or a combination of the two) as I find parts tend to be cheaper on either of those than Overclockers who are rather expensive all things told. Even their "sale of the week" items tend to be about the same price as "normal" pricing on scan or amazon.

That said, all three have never disappointed me, even when there have been order mishaps (few and far between).

Cuddlesworth

MagTuired wrote: »

Found some information about insolvency in Germany here. The wording is a bit confusing though.



By the sound of the e-mail you lads received, they're going to try and go ahead with the business, so if it's not just PR and you get your claims in hopefully it can be resolved.

There's a post on Reddit about it too now, might have some handy info in it.

Don't touch them with a ten foot barge pole.

Here is a rough outline of how the process works in Ireland, which I'm assuming is pretty similar to Germany.

Company states they can't pay their debts, files for bankruptcy.

Administrator is appointed to the company. He looks to make sure they can't actually pay their debts and if the business is viable. This is dependant on what the secured creditors will agree too, usually is a balance between a low percentage paid back immediately, or a higher percentage over time.

If the company can't make money or the creditors don't agree, everything is wound down and sold off. The first people to be paid are the banks/credit card company's/insolvency administrators. Then it's the staff obligations. Then the customers, which is usually nothing at this point. If you have paid money back into the company and they wind it down, you are still bottom of this list. Its not worth the risk.

john the one

This is sad reading for people who can't get money back.

I know if I spent money on a computer build now and lost it, it would be along time before I would have the money again.

Now I wonder, can we use our buying power to secure deals on other sites? A boards deal code for 10‰ off or something. With an Irish company. Anyone ever try anything like that? How many new customers would it bring to a company could anyone guess?

Digital Solitude

john the one wrote: »

This is sad reading for people who can't get money back.

I know if I spent money on a computer build now and lost it, it would be along time before I would have the money again.

Now I wonder, can we use our buying power to secure deals on other sites? A boards deal code for 10‰ off or something. With an Irish company. Anyone ever try anything like that? How many new customers would it bring to a company could anyone guess?

Not gonna happen, turnovers are already too low on components, that's why they're never featured on Massdrop

john the one

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Not gonna happen, turnovers are already too low on components, that's why they're never featured on Massdrop

But dammit we can try! We have to try!

Even free feckin shipping or a Dominoes pizza garlic bread voucher.

Darkglasses

With the amount that users here have spent in HWVS over the years, you'd think a company would try something to take the space in the marketplace. But then, I suppose we have rules about advertising too.

Cuddlesworth

Darkglasses wrote: »

With the amount that users here have spent in HWVS over the years, you'd think a company would try something to take the space in the marketplace. But then, I suppose we have rules about advertising too.

Its a harsh business to be in. You need significant purchasing power to be competitive, stock devalues quickly and the RMA process for components could be very time consuming with a large number of false flags.

Serephucus

If my wildest dreams came true, we'd get 5%. I'd imagine if we did a little market research, and went to some of the common retailers, after lots and lots and lots of talks, emails, etc. we might get 2%.

Digital Solitude

Serephucus wrote: »

If my wildest dreams came true, we'd get 5%. I'd imagine if we did a little market research, and went to some of the common retailers, after lots and lots and lots of talks, emails, etc. we might get 2%.

10% wouldn't make Dabs competitive, so there's really no point in my eyes

Elessar

Sad to hear this, I bought all my PC components from them

Lu Tze

We could always approach a good retailer to see if it would be possible to get a discount for forum members, not sure if it has been tried before in B&U?

I see in the Vaping forum they have a lot of e-tailer discount codes, but they tend to be much smaller operations, less expensive stock, probably higher margins and there products arent obselete 6 months down the line!

Could try the likes of Komplett, while no longer having an Irish presence, they at least maintained their talk to forum here, and may be more open to interaction and possible deals.

We complain there are no competitive Irish offerings, if we bring buying power to one or two "local" shops like this things may change.

I look at the richersounds forum and look enviously at their stock clearance threads when they come up every 3-4 months, would be class to have that engagement with one of the component retailers.

Elara, Dabs, memoryC are other options maybe, im sure there is plenty more.

john the one

popped a quick mail off to Komplett just now so we will see hopefully.

Serephucus

Um... I think, if we are to do this, it should be something much more formal than "a quick email".

Perhaps a Google doc for the regulars to figure out a format? Maybe a list of users with previous purchases for a certain time period, figures of how many people we spec out rigs for on a weekly basis, average cost, etc.

Essentially what we're doing is trying to convince a given company of how much they have to gain. Simply asking "Can we have a discount, because... reasons" I don't think will cut it.

john the one

Serephucus wrote: »

Um... I think, if we are to do this, it should be something much more formal than "a quick email".

Perhaps a Google doc for the regulars to figure out a format? Maybe a list of users with previous purchases for a certain time period, figures of how many people we spec out rigs for on a weekly basis, average cost, etc.

Essentially what we're doing is trying to convince a given company of how much they have to gain. Simply asking "Can we have a discount, because... reasons" I don't think will cut it.

sounds good, lemme know the link to the google document.

Lu Tze

Serephucus wrote: »

Um... I think, if we are to do this, it should be something much more formal than "a quick email".

Perhaps a Google doc for the regulars to figure out a format? Maybe a list of users with previous purchases for a certain time period, figures of how many people we spec out rigs for on a weekly basis, average cost, etc.

Essentially what we're doing is trying to convince a given company of how much they have to gain. Simply asking "Can we have a discount, because... reasons" I don't think will cut it.

Could look at Build request threads for the last 2 weeks/month and be able come up we decent list of builds that were ordered - would be pretty easy to show the amount of recommendation that went through here. Probably stick just with builds that were definitely order. Would give a scale to whats going through this forum anyway to provide to anybody we approach, in addition to all the individual component threads that look for recommendations on this forum.

I actually bought the first thing off komplett a few months back since paradigit took over - i was in the middle of RMAing an faulty PSU when they were changing over there systems, turned into a 3-4 month ordeal. Swore i would never buy off them again. I am clearly bare faced liar :pac:

Digital Solitude

Our margins do not allow us to do something like that unfortunately. We have a lot of fast moving products products with a 3% margin for example. A % discount will not work. We can work out discount on bulk item purchases but that would need to be done on each purchase and for that specific period as well.
Digital says:
Can you give a further explanation of the bulk item purchases please.
Kin Mak says:
If you need to buy 20 harddrives, you can request a special price for that purchase. We can then look at which ever product and based on how much margin is on it we can apply a discount based on the quantity.

That's from Elara, unless we all decide to go for the same Hard Drive or SSD at the same time I don't see it being very viable