Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

There is a bit of movement on an all Irish coarse ration containing barley and beans which should be widely available this winter for something like 180 /t, iirc.

Sorry wasnt quite clear, h/c is shorthand for human consumption. You will have less bruchid beetle about in ireland so a chance for quality as it avoids holes from larvae burrowing out of the bean. Chocolate spot and leaf spot and mildew may be an issue.
Feed grade grains are a waste of time, they dont pay.

Keepgrowing

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Tail docking.... Tut tut

Lol
I suppose docked tails in a herd of cows is a bit like assholes in a room of people, a small enough percentage but easily spotted !

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Shyte caked cows

Wait until after they are scanned , then they will be **** caked

Mooooo

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

There is a bit of movement on an all Irish coarse ration containing barley and beans which should be widely available this winter for something like 180 /t, iirc.

Sorry wasnt quite clear, h/c is shorthand for human consumption. You will have less bruchid beetle about in ireland so a chance for quality as it avoids holes from larvae burrowing out of the bean. Chocolate spot and leaf spot and mildew may be an issue.
Feed grade grains are a waste of time, they dont pay.

Two tillage guys, one I know another I was told off, sell majority of there crops direct to farmer customers be it forage crops, maize or whole crop or beet or rolled barley. Both crowds big acres and not dropping. Seems to be working for them ahead selling to the coops. The one I deal with only plants what he will have sold already more or less

Keepgrowing

whelan2 wrote: »

Wait until after they are scanned , then they will be **** caked

It's a hard day on man and beast. A guy in our group is getting a guy with a rectal probe which does away with the arm needing to be inserted. It's the one day I feel sorry for the cows. Have you tried this system?

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Shyte caked cows

Wait until after they are scanned , then they will be **** caked

One vet here uses a type of curved applicator for lack of a better word that he puts the probe into. Cows hardly know they are scanned at all. The odd one he may have to handle but it's a away faster as well

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

It's a hard day on man and beast. A guy in our group is getting a guy with a rectal probe which does away with the arm needing to be inserted. It's the one day I feel sorry for the cows. Have you tried this system?

No just normal way. Took 2 weeks for them to stop ****ting

Keepgrowing

Tough work being a cow in Ireland. This scene is replicated all over the country

Comfortable, clean and walk to and from milking in their own time. We go Ayr and its 6 months of concrete. Ask the cow what she'd prefer, ask the processor or the consumer will they pay?

No
No
No

mf240

Cows would be clean and comfortable in a lot of the more modern cubicle sheds.

A lot of the bigger lads don't have housing for the cows do they let them out straight after calving. I suppose they might as well be standing in hailstorms and rain in a field as in the corner of a yard.

Dawggone

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Tough work being a cow in Ireland. This scene is replicated all over the country

Comfortable, clean and walk to and from milking in their own time. We go Ayr and its 6 months of concrete. Ask the cow what she'd prefer, ask the processor or the consumer will they pay?

No
No
No

Yes x 3 is also a possible answer to all three questions...

1. Give your cows a choice...I'll wager that for a large part of the year your cows would rather remain inside, given proper accommodation.

2 and 3. That's the point I was trying to make...maybe if the consumer was approached?

Nice cows btw.
I find cows are cleaner when indoors as they've no cow pats to lie onto.

mf240

If you wanted to be really pedantic. Given the choice cows would rear their calves. Roam around whatever area Is available and then travel in search of fresh pasture.

Dawggone

mf240 wrote: »

If you wanted to be really pedantic. Given the choice cows would rear their calves. Roam around whatever area Is available and then travel in search of fresh pasture.

India?

trixi2011

Took my first plunge into farming in my own right last year and bought 2 groups of dairy heifer calves. One group were all late march calves and below target weight when I bought them . All bar one were at target weight at breeding and scanned this week and 100% incalf. Now if I could replicate this every year I'd be flying it

mf240

Dawggone wrote: »

India?

No north tipp:D:D

GrasstoMilk

trixi2011 wrote: »

Took my first plunge into farming in my own right last year and bought 2 groups of dairy heifer calves. One group were all late march calves and below target weight when I bought them . All bar one were at target weight at breeding and scanned this week and 100% incalf. Now if I could replicate this every year I'd be flying it

What's the plan now?
Lease? Milk?

trixi2011

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What's the plan now?
Lease? Milk?

Working on that one at the moment hoping to milk them tho but have somewhere I can lease them into if needsbe

GrasstoMilk

Getting to know the winner of the FBD Young Farmer of the Year Competition @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/getting-to-know-the-winner-of-the-fbd-young-farmer-of-the-year-competition/

A great achievement.
No moaning here.
Plenty inside the farm gate to make money aswell

charolais0153

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Getting to know the winner of the FBD Young Farmer of the Year Competition @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/getting-to-know-the-winner-of-the-fbd-young-farmer-of-the-year-competition/

A great achievement.
No moaning here.
Plenty inside the farm gate to make money aswell

If I was to get 79ha of top quality land for almost nothingand half of it laid into paddocks . I wouldn't be moaning either

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Getting to know the winner of the FBD Young Farmer of the Year Competition @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/getting-to-know-the-winner-of-the-fbd-young-farmer-of-the-year-competition/

A great achievement.
No moaning here.
Plenty inside the farm gate to make money aswell

22 cent a litre break - even break base price on a rented block including capital and drawings along with cow numbers doubled in the spring couldn't be right and even if it was why is the chap boasting about it, just another article for co-ops to show suppliers and be like sure what are ye moaning about look at this shining light, ye just have to be efficent like this chap

Keepgrowing

charolais0153 wrote: »

If I was to get 79ha of top quality land for almost nothingand half of it laid into paddocks . I wouldn't be moaning either

Who stopped you?

Keepgrowing

jaymla627 wrote: »

22 cent a litre break - even break base price on a rented block including capital and drawings along with cow numbers doubled in the spring couldn't be right and even if it was why is the chap boasting about it, just another article for co-ops to show suppliers and be like sure what are ye moaning about look at this shining light, ye just have to be efficent like this chap

Re read the article or the piece I've attached then comment

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

22 cent a litre break - even break base price on a rented block including capital and drawings along with cow numbers doubled in the spring couldn't be right....

"Moran explained that constant cash flow and profit monitoring is important for his business and in 2016 his breakeven milk price is 22c/L, down from 24c/L and 27c/L in 2015 and 2014 respectively.

“When I add on stock sales, extra fat and protein in the milk and single farm payment, thats topping it up by 12c/L

“That’s actually 34c/L it takes to run my farm, including my salary and full capital repayments,” he said."

Did I misread that or is it 34c break even with drawings etc.?

jaymla627

charolais0153 wrote: »

If I was to get 79ha of top quality land for almost nothingand half of it laid into paddocks . I wouldn't be moaning either

He's getting the sfp of it to by the looks of it, may show this article to the uncle I've land off, like most lease arrangements in the country he gets all the sfp plus rent, agriland is turning into a awful prick of a website lately starting to match the journal

Keepgrowing

jaymla627 wrote: »

He's getting the sfp of it to by the looks of it, may show this article to the uncle I've land off, like most lease arrangements in the country he gets all the sfp plus rent, agriland is turning into a awful prick of a website lately starting to match the journal

Ah now, doesn't dtop you mid quoting it when the info doesn't suit

Keepgrowing

kowtow wrote: »

Did I misread that or is it 34c break even with drawings etc.?

That's my understanding. Took extra solids, stock sales and SFP to break even. Nice honesty.

jaymla627

kowtow wrote: »

Did I misread that or is it 34c break even with drawings etc.?

34 cent is breakeven price, I'd love to see the breakdown for the 12 cent over base he is achieving and where he came across such a significant sfp at 23 years of age

kowtow

mf240 wrote: »

Cows would be clean and comfortable in a lot of the more modern cubicle sheds.

A lot of the bigger lads don't have housing for the cows do they let them out straight after calving. I suppose they might as well be standing in hailstorms and rain in a field as in the corner of a yard.

I think it's one of those endless circular debates isn't it?

The fact is that either system done really well involves very comfortable, happy, cows - indoors or out. Done "not so well" is a different story altogether..

Which does rather bring you back to the economics... somewhere along the line the happy cows need to produce enough profit from the premium milk they give us to invest in the new cow brushes, mattresses, sheds.. or (even more expensive) acres of Irish grass that they are going to occupy and to pay the poor sop who runs around after them.

yewtree

Very few farmers below 30 cent/litre cash cost when everything included. But as it states in article fat/protein % livestock sales bring totAl output up to break even.
The lad is farming not to far from me, he Got a great opportunity and made the most of it. Industry needs more lads like him.

jaymla627

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Ah now, doesn't dtop you mid quoting it when the info doesn't suit

What did I misquote I specially said his breakeven base price was 22 cent a litre, the 34 cent figure I'm finding it difficult to see how it was obtained....
Say solids where giving 4 cent over base and stock sales 3 cent a litre that means without the sfp their was a 5 cent loss that should maybe be pointed out in the article that a new entrant on a 80 hectare rented block with no entitlements would be down 60000 odd grand if he was achieving exactly the same performance and figures

Keepgrowing

jaymla627 wrote: »

What did I misquote I specially said his breakeven base price was 22 cent a litre, the 34 cent figure I'm finding it difficult to see how it was obtained....
Say solids where giving 4 cent over base and stock sales 3 cent a litre that means without the sfp their was a 5 cent loss that should maybe be pointed out in the article that a new entrant on a 80 hectare rented block with no entitlements would be down 60000 odd grand if he was achieving exactly the same performance and figures[/quote

The point is he's only breaking even at 34c. It's taking every once of sales and cost control to manage that. I'd salute that article for pointing that out.

We need more of that.

Injuryprone

kowtow wrote: »

Did I misread that or is it 34c break even with drawings etc.?

My reading of that is that his breakeven is 22c for 2016, but if he was to exclude the income from sfp, stock sales and extra fat/protein %, then he would've needed 34c from the milk to breakeven.

Fair enough, going forward stock sales and sfp may not be guaranteed but I don't understand why extra milk solids is included.

awaywithyou

yewtree wrote: »

Very few farmers below 30 cent/litre cash cost when everything included. But as it states in article fat/protein % livestock sales bring totAl output up to break even.
The lad is farming not to far from me, he Got a great opportunity and made the most of it. Industry needs more lads like him.

Fair play to him... But he should acknowledge in his interviews that were it not for his uncle offering his land as security Kevin could have had all the enthusiasm in the world and the best business plans... But He'd have duck all only for his uncle....

Also he sayes he loves milking cows... Yet he only milks his own 8 times a week.... Doesn't sound like a man that loves milking cows.....

Takes a day off every week during the spring... Who does the work those days?? No mention of that....

I have more respect for that lad if he was doing less interviews..... And more work on his uncles farm.....

Having said all above I wish him all the best....

Keepgrowing

Injuryprone wrote: »

My reading of that is that his breakeven is 22c for 2016, but if he was to exclude the income from sfp, stock sales and extra fat/protein %, then he would've needed 34c from the milk to breakeven.

Fair enough, going forward stock sales and sfp may not be guaranteed but I don't understand why extra milk solids is included.

Can you explain the following quote

“For every 1c/L your increase your concentrate costs your overall costs increase by 1.6c/L,” he said.

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

What did I misquote I specially said his breakeven base price was 22 cent a litre, the 34 cent figure I'm finding it difficult to see how it was obtained....
Say solids where giving 4 cent over base and stock sales 3 cent a litre that means without the sfp their was a 5 cent loss that should maybe be pointed out in the article that a new entrant on a 80 hectare rented block with no entitlements would be down 60000 odd grand if he was achieving exactly the same performance and figures

I see where Jay is going with this because on my reading the price of 22c is actually little to do with breakeven in the normal sense, what it really means is "if the base price was below 22c I would be losing money"

The break-even with full costs including, I think, the industrial wage is 34c, as KG says fair play for pointing that out, its a lot more realistic than many of the figures we see bandied about, by the by it is also close (perhaps higher?) than the equivalent figure on plenty of UK farms.

And he can only get to that, even when SFP calf sales etc. are included, if the base price is 22c or higher.

GrasstoMilk

Are lads really that pedantic?
Where do majority of farmers get there land from?
Family!

I don't think he should do any less interviews, great to show young ppl that if they really want it they can't do it.

I wish him the best of luck. I don't want to be working in an industry in 30 yrs where there's no young ppl involved, no enthusiasm and parishes turn into 4 farms.
30 yrs time we will have a generation of kids that are even further again from the land

Timmaay

Keepgrowing wrote: »

The point is he's only breaking even at 34c. It's taking every once of sales and cost control to manage that. I'd salute that article for pointing that out.

We need more of that.

Shame the headline wasn't 34c/litre to break even, instead it was the usual save 35k/yr by being more efficient (aka you all need to race to the bottom quicker!)

C0N0R

Re Kevin Moran, we visited his farm as part of our Dairy Management course, he gave us figures and I grilled him on them and he had no problems explaining them, he is paying rent to his uncles. Ok he is very lucky with the situation he has landed himself in but he had worked hard for it at the same time. Passionate about dairy farming and knew that's what he always wanted to do. A real gentleman and after spending the morning with him you would be motivated about the future of the dairy industry.

jaymla627

C0N0R wrote: »

Re Kevin Moran, we visited his farm as part of our Dairy Management course, he gave us figures and I grilled him on them and he had no problems explaining them, he is paying rent to his uncles. Ok he is very lucky with the situation he has landed himself in but he had worked hard for it at the same time. Passionate about dairy farming and knew that's what he always wanted to do. A real gentleman and after spending the morning with him you would be motivated about the future of the dairy industry.

Is the rent payed to the uncles in question being effectively cancelled out by the sfp he's receiving throught their entitlements our is another say 100 euro an acre being payed on top of this

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

Shame the headline wasn't 34c/litre to break even, instead it was the usual save 35k/yr by being more efficient (aka you all need to race to the bottom quicker!)

Agreed.. although I have a funny feeling it wasn't Kevin Moran that wrote the headline, or the article for that matter!

awaywithyou

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Are lads really that pedantic?
Where do majority of farmers get there land from?
Family!

I don't think he should do any less interviews, great to show young ppl that if they really want it they can't do it.

I wish him the best of luck. I don't want to be working in an industry in 30 yrs where there's no young ppl involved, no enthusiasm and parishes turn into 4 farms.
30 yrs time we will have a generation of kids that are even further again from the land

Parishes are turning into 4 farms as it is..... Now with quotas abolished that process has accelerated and will happen sooner rather than later.....

Keepgrowing

If people can't see that as a positive story the Irish dairy industry is bet

freedominacup

Keepgrowing wrote: »

If people can't see that as a positive story the Irish dairy industry is bet

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

Waffletraktor

Mooooo wrote: »

Two tillage guys, one I know another I was told off, sell majority of there crops direct to farmer customers be it forage crops, maize or whole crop or beet or rolled barley. Both crowds big acres and not dropping. Seems to be working for them ahead selling to the coops. The one I deal with only plants what he will have sold already more or less

Theres a difference in making money because you have lots of cows vs making lots of money from lots of cows.
That is exactly what i remember saying to the old greengrass 2 years ago will be the future for tillage, forward sell crops at a fixed price per acre with in built margin. It was slightly derided as wasting space for more cows, though things have come crashing into the new reality which will need a while to settle.

Commodity products are a waste of time, our costs are too high for everything.

yewtree

freedominacup wrote: »

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

What's the wheist speil?
The opportunity he got was very unusual to get such a big block of land that in effect he had first refusal on. What I admire is he made the most of it, lots of fellas have got big blocks of land and done nothing with it

Keepgrowing

awaywithyou wrote: »

Parishes are turning into 4 farms as it is..... Now with quotas abolished that process has accelerated and will happen sooner rather than later.....

Bring back the land commission, that'll phuck things up for a generation.

Tongue firmly in cheek:)

C0N0R

I have the figures at home, I'll be home in three weeks so can tell you then! Does it make a difference?? I know of a situation where a young fellow was offered a place to rent by a farmer who had been screwed over by tenants time and time again, the guy in question was able to get new entitlements from the national reserve and the value of the entitlements more than covered his outlay in rent.

At the end of the day the uncles are probably better off as they probably end up with more money in their pocket than from when they were beef farming it for a lot less work.

There are lads who can't make a living from land they get given and have no rent and receive all their sfp and have no borrowings, this lad is making the most of the situation he has found himself in, you can't begrudge him that. He freely admits that he couldn't have done a thing without his uncles help re security on loans etc. While he was in ag college he was full time farming also.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

Most of these farmer of the year competitions pick a candidate that represents the views of the Advertisers behind it(sorry, i mean sponsors). A success story is required atm, maybe next year when milk is heading back in the 30cs it will be a high input herd to maximise potential profits are required.

whelan2

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Most of these farmer of the year competitions pick a candidate that represents the views of the Advertisers behind it(sorry, i mean sponsors). A success story is required atm, maybe next year when milk is heading back in the 30cs it will be a high input herd to maximise potential profits are required.

Last years winner was a pig farmer.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

Agreed.. although I have a funny feeling it wasn't Kevin Moran that wrote the headline, or the article for that matter!

Yeah, Agriland have had some questionable headlines on their site in the last year. I stop looking for ages because they annoy me and that article isn't encouraging me to go back.

Waffletraktor

whelan2 wrote: »

Last years winner was a pig farmer.

Thought it was just the dairy section, sorry.
Still stand by my opinion.