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Blacknight Solutions- Avoid!!

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    #32
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    jmcc wrote: »
    This has been a feature of most of the new gTLDs that have launched in the last year or so. The registries know that some domain names are more valuable than others due to their generic nature and they reserve them for auction or put a premium price on their registrations. Some of the new gTLD registries have set up separate companies to register large numbers of what would be premium generic domain names in .COM or other more mature TLDs.

    Regards...jmcc

    The registries can't be setting the prices if it's possible to register premium domains with other registrars for a fraction of the cost.

    I was looking at some premium .irish domains and they were anywhere from 600-1000 euro! I registered the same domain with Letshost instead for around 30 euro.


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    #33
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    goz83 wrote: »
    To add to it, i have had several requests over a period of 7 years to buy a "premium" .com domain matching my business name. I first went with a .net and then trumpted their premium garbage with a local .ie domain. The .ie costs me €30 a year. The .com would be half that, but with a premium of just over $1000 :eek:

    There are 2 main types of 'premium' domains:

    Unregistered domains offered by the new GTLDs via their registrars.
    Registered domains offered from one of the domain auction sites via partner registrars.

    Just because you see an offer for a premium domain on a registrars website, it does not mean the registrar currently owns the domain.

    Magnate wrote: »
    I was looking at some premium .irish domains and they were anywhere from 600-1000 euro! I registered the same domain with LH instead for around 30 euro.

    Are those domains actually registered or are they 'pending'? Login to your LH control panel and check the status.

    I just registered a desirable .irish domain with LH for €30. Payment has been taken and the control panel shows the domain as pending. When I check with the registry at http://nic.irish the domain is still showing as available.


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    #34
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    Graham wrote: »
    I just registered a desirable .irish domain with LH for €30. Payment has been taken and the control panel shows the domain as pending. When I check with the registry at http://nic.irish the domain is still showing as available.

    Good point, I only registered it yesterday so I'll let you know. It can take up to a few days anyway as far as I know, but yeah I could see this bouncing back.


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    #35
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Magnate wrote: »
    It can take up to a few days anyway as far as I know, but yeah I could see this bouncing back.

    Usually registrations are pretty much realtime.

    I've seen it a couple of times where a registrar has implemented a new registry but missed/ignored/cocked-up the integration for premium domains.

    Are your new bargain premium domains listed as 'pending' in your LH control panel? If they are, have you checked their status on http://nic.irish


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    #36
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    Graham wrote: »
    Usually registrations are pretty much realtime.

    I've seen it a couple of times where a registrar has implemented a new registry but missed/ignored/cocked-up the integration for premium domains.

    Are your new bargain premium domains listed as 'pending' in your LH control panel? If they are, have you checked their status on http://nic.irish

    With the likes of .com sure, but my .ie took a few days as they had to deal with the IEDR, although I might have registered it at the weekend. Their website says it takes 3 hours Monday - Friday. Perhaps it's similar with Dot-Irish. Although I'm starting to think it's more than likely a cock-up on LH's part like you've suggested.


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    #37
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Magnate wrote: »
    With the likes of .com sure, but my .ie took a few days as they had to deal with the IEDR, although I might have registered it at the weekend. Their website says it takes 3 hours Monday - Friday. Perhaps it's similar with Dot-Irish. Although I'm starting to think it's more than likely a cock-up on LH's part like you've suggested.

    I think there's a manual check for entitlement in the .ie registration process which causes the delay. I'd expect the .irish to be instant.

    I hope I'm wrong ;)


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    #38
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Magnate wrote: »
    My biggest complaint with them is that they pretty much act as domain squatters, charging several hundred for so called "premium domains" eg. firstname.irish which can be registered for 30 euro with their competitors.

    Sorry, but that's factually incorrect.

    Any premium domain name we sell, be that in .irish or .club, is priced correctly based on the prices we get from the registries directly.

    We are directly accredited with the registry and offer instant registration for those domain names. There shouldn't be any delay for a .club or .irish premium name we offer.

    We are not "squatting" on anything - please get your facts straight before making those kind of baseless accusations

    While there are differences in prices between registrars, no ICANN accredited registrar is going to knowingly offer a domain name for sales at 10% of its wholesale price.

    We are aware of some domain resellers who have been offering .irish premium names at standard prices, but they won't be able to sell you a domain name with a wholesale price to a registrar of EUR300 for EUR30.

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    #39
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Graham wrote: »
    I think there's a manual check for entitlement in the .ie registration process which causes the delay. I'd expect the .irish to be instant.

    I hope I'm wrong ;)

    .irish registrations are instant.

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    #40
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    Blacknight wrote: »
    Sorry, but that's factually incorrect.

    Any premium domain name we sell, be that in .irish or .club, is priced correctly based on the prices we get from the registries directly.

    We are directly accredited with the registry and offer instant registration for those domain names. There shouldn't be any delay for a .club or .irish premium name we offer.

    We are not "squatting" on anything - please get your facts straight before making those kind of baseless accusations

    While there are differences in prices between registrars, no ICANN accredited registrar is going to knowingly offer a domain name for sales at 10% of its wholesale price.

    We are aware of some domain resellers who have been offering .irish premium names at standard prices, but they won't be able to sell you a domain name with a wholesale price to a registrar of EUR300 for EUR30.

    First of all, apologies as I was thinking moreso of domain speculation rather than squatting, I realise the latter has a lot of negative connotations. Secondly, as Graham has pointed out, the 30 euro price is more than likely an oversight on Letshost's part - but we'll see if it goes through.

    You can understand where I was coming from though, one registrar was charging €1000, the other was €970 cheaper. I thought the fact that the payment went through meant that it was a sure thing, but it's looking more and more unlikely.


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    #41
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Magnate wrote: »
    First of all, apologies as I was thinking moreso of domain speculation rather than squatting, I realise the latter has a lot of negative connotations. Secondly, as Graham has pointed out, the 30 euro price is more than likely an oversight on Letshost's part - but we'll see if it goes through.
    No problem
    Magnate wrote: »
    You can understand where I was coming from though, one registrar was charging €1000, the other was €970 cheaper. I thought the fact that the payment went through meant that it was a sure thing, but it's looking more and more unlikely.
    We are the only Irish owned ICANN accredited registrar.

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    #42
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Lads as you are aware hosting specific talk isnt allowed on here, if you have specific questions for Blacknight or their offerings move it to their Talk to forum.


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    #43
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Axwell wrote: »
    Lads as you are aware hosting specific talk isnt allowed on here, if you have specific questions for Blacknight or their offerings move it to their Talk to forum.

    Sorry Ax, I wasn't aware. My bad. Any chance of sending my deleted post back to me by pm?


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    #44
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Magnate wrote: »
    The registries can't be setting the prices if it's possible to register premium domains with other registrars for a fraction of the cost.
    This is not the case, as Blacknight pointed out. Basically, the rules were changed when the new gTLDs were proposed. The registries were allowed to set pricing for "premium" domain names and these differ from the ordinary domain names.
    I was looking at some premium .irish domains and they were anywhere from 600-1000 euro! I registered the same domain with Letshost instead for around 30 euro.
    Some hosters are not registrars. (There is quite a difference between a registrar and a reseller.) If the domain name is a premium domain name, then there is a chance that the registry can take it back or not register it. There have been cases of people registering premium domain names in the new gTLDs only to see the registry revoke the registrations and take back the domain names. That's also in the rules with the new gTLDs.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #45
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭jmcc


    NeutralHandle wrote: »
    Institutionalised domain squatting. Interesting. Hadn't been aware of that.
    A lot of things changed in the last few years. Removing registry/registrar split was one of them. The registries in the new gTLDs are now allowed to effectively self-deal with their gTLDs. Some registries have set up their own domain holding companies for what they think are premium domain names. This actually inflates the size of their zone files and makes people think that their gTLDs are much more popular than they are in reality. It is not domain squatting. "Domain squatting" is something completely different and is more properly described as "cybersquatting".

    Regards...jmcc


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    #46
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    To elaborate a bit on premium names and their pricing...

    Registries are basically offering three types of registrations:
    - standard registration fee. The "normal" registration and renewal fee. Offered by all registrars and their resellers.
    - premium registration fee. There are two variants on this. In the case of .club and .irish (as well as some others) you pay more on the first year registration but the renewal rates are standard. So you might pay EUR200+ for year one, but you'd only pay the normal renewal rate. The other variant is that you pay a premium renewal fee forever.
    - "super" premium. These are names that the registry has valued way outside the normal spectrum and aren't offered for direct registration. They're the kind of names that might be auctioned off to get some PR or could be registered by negotiating with the registry.


    There's also the situation where the registry actually registers the domain names directly or via an affiliated company and then offers the names for sale via the various domain name market places.

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    #47
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Just on the .IRISH gTLD, if anyone is considering a registration, it would be a good thing to do it quickly because Godaddy (the largest registrar on the web) does not have the gTLD available yet. When that happens, there might be more registrations and many of the more generic domain names could be among the first to be registered.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #48
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    jmcc wrote: »
    Just on the .IRISH gTLD, if anyone is considering a registration, it would be a good thing to do it quickly because Godaddy (the largest registrar on the web) does not have the gTLD available yet. When that happens, there might be more registrations and many of the more generic domain names could be among the first to be registered.

    John

    Unless GD market it heavily I don't see how that would have that much impact.

    If you look across the numbers for various TLDs GD's dominance is in the aggregate, but not so much on a lot of the individual strings.

    A lot of the more "generic" terms are premium domains anyway :)

    Michele

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    #49
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Blacknight wrote: »
    John

    Unless GD market it heavily I don't see how that would have that much impact.
    The pricing is the key issue, Michele,
    The .IRISH isn't competitive against either .COM or .IE in the Irish market. At the moment, GD is not marketing it and it is not apparently available via Godaddy. Without GD marketing a gTLD, or at least making it available, a gTLD will struggle for acceptance in the US market and perhaps globally. The figures on .IRISH are still on the low side but like many of the new gTLDs, .IRISH's main market will be the US one. (The .TEL gTLD would have been the classic example from the past of a gTLD that wasn't on Godaddy's list and as a result, apart from it solving a problem that nobody had, it is currently around 123K domains.)
    If you look across the numbers for various TLDs GD's dominance is in the aggregate, but not so much on a lot of the individual strings.
    GD can pick and choose which ones it will market. That's a very powerful position. Some, like .XYZ have become too registrar focused. That freebie deal is hitting it hard and it is now well below the high point of one million domains. The problem with some of the new gTLDs is that the registries are active in the zones and this skews the figures on individual zones.
    A lot of the more "generic" terms are premium domains anyway :)
    True. But there is always the chance of some low hanging fruit that others have missed. And it could be a good way to market to the Diaspora if .IRISH actually gets some traction. But on the latest figures, that might be a few years away yet. :)

    Regards...jmcc


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    #50
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    jmcc wrote: »
    The pricing is the key issue, Michele,
    The .IRISH isn't competitive against either .COM or .IE in the Irish market. At the moment, GD is not marketing it. Without GD marketing a gTLD, or at least making it available, a gTLD will struggle for acceptance in the US market and perhaps globally. The figures on .IRISH are still on the low side but like many of the new gTLDs, .IRISH's main market will be the US one. (The .TEL gTLD would have been the classic example from the past of a gTLD that wasn't on Godaddy's list and as a result, apart from it solving a problem that nobody had, it is currently around 123K domains.)
    The only way that GD or any other registrar is going to drop their retail price on a domain extension is if the registry either offers a promotion / discount OR if they get co-marketing funds
    And they'll only market extensions where there's an incentive to do so
    So far the .irish registry hasn't offered either - if they did we'd embrace it

    .Tel is a good example - there was very little upsell available to registrars and the "special" nature of the domain meant that people registered them thinking they could build a normal website etc., no wonder GD didn't bother carrying it.

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    #51
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Blacknight wrote: »
    The only way that GD or any other registrar is going to drop their retail price on a domain extension is if the registry either offers a promotion / discount OR if they get co-marketing funds
    And they'll only market extensions where there's an incentive to do so
    So far the .irish registry hasn't offered either - if they did we'd embrace it
    The serious problem for .IRISH in the US market is that it is not available yet on GD. The Irish market is more complex in that it is no longer a .COM dominant market. Some of the new gTLD registries have gone with higher pricing on their domain names. In theory, higher priced domain names may have a slightly better possibility of being renewed than a domain name priced at .COM levels. In a new TLD with momentum, that can work out. But if the new TLD does not have momentum, then it can act as a deterrent to registration. And if the new TLD doesn't get the registrars on-side with discounts or decent marketing promotions, then it is going to have a very flat growth curve. This is almost exactly what is happening with .IRISH at the moment but it is still a very new TLD and it still has the best part of a year to run before the intial registrations come up for renewal.
    .Tel is a good example - there was very little upsell available to registrars and the "special" nature of the domain meant that people registered them thinking they could build a normal website etc., no wonder GD didn't bother carrying it.
    It was also a victim of ICANN politics, to some extent. It took a while for the application to be approved and then more time for the gTLD to be launched. The market that existed at launch was completely different to the market that existed at the time of application. The problem for some of the new gTLDs is that individually, they may be trying to sell 2008 solutions to a 2015 market. Hopefully .IRISH will do well.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #52
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    I don't see the benefit of having a dot irish. Am I missing something? The price is too high anyway at the same price of a dot ie domain. I was considering registering my first name dot irish and half a second later I hadn't thought any further on it. I have my full name dot com, which is nice enough for emails.


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    #53
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Magnate wrote: »
    The registries can't be setting the prices if it's possible to register premium domains with other registrars for a fraction of the cost.

    I was looking at some premium .irish domains and they were anywhere from 600-1000 euro! I registered the same domain with *** instead for around 30 euro.

    As suspected, I got a refund this morning along with an email telling me 'We do not offer premium domains'.


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    #54
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    Graham wrote: »
    As suspected, I got a refund this morning along with an email telling me 'We do not offer premium domains'.

    Likewise :(

    Ah well, worth a shot.


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    #55
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Based on some of the issues raised in this thread I posted this over the weekend: http://blacknig.ht/dp0

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