domestic rider banned for steroid abuse

dastardly00

detones wrote: »

Isn't clenbuterol more of a weight loss drug anyway. Think I recall from my distant past when I was into weightlifting that lads used it for cutting. To get any benefit from this it would have to have been used systematically over a long period training. Seems a bit sophisticated for amature race. Dosnt' really add up.

The Irish Sports Council report states that it both builds muscle and reduces fat.

Harrybelafonte

godtabh wrote: »

Its cheaper than I thought it is

http://supplementsdublin.com/shop/balkan-pharmaceuticals/clenbuterol-40ng/

but some one suggested that you would need to be on it for a long time. I wonder what kind of side effects it causes?

cardiac arrythmia

http://examine.com/supplements/Clenbuterol/

Eamonnator

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

cardiac arrythmia

http://examine.com/supplements/Clenbuterol/

or sudden death.

kumate_champ07

godtabh wrote: »

i doubt this will go main stream. Will it?

my mother mentioned it to me on the phone

godtabh

Eamonnator wrote: »

or sudden death.

Has the same effect on cycling careers

fishfoodie

manwithaplan wrote: »

There's hardly any testing at all in domestic racing as far as I have seen. In fairness there shouldn't be any need for it. The mind boggles as to why anyone would dope to win an amateur race. It can't be for the money and I can't see that there would be any sense of achievement.

There have been 4-5 people asking this simple question on the thread, but your the latest, so I'll reply to your post.

In the last decade in the US; the trend has been of vastly increased doping failures in amateur cycling, & I assume we're just catching up

It's just about winning, & the rush from beating others, Ego !

It's all too easy to get drugs to dope; just checkout some of the bodybuilding forums; & the amount of checks as a percentage of those in amateur cycling, is minute. If someone isn't targeting you, there's very little chance of getting caught. On other forums, doping controls are, validly I think, described as, 'IQ tests'.

Kelly accepted that he had lost 10kg in the months leading up to the event

Even in amateur races, someone is likely to notice that kind of transformation !

godtabh

Wasnt there a middle aged women done for doping in the states recently?

kumate_champ07

why would a farmer give his cattle weight loss drugs anyway, isnt beef sold by weight?

this is about crossfit but still worth reading, because theres not much testing done here either
I dont like some of the authors opinions or morals


https://www.t-nation.com/steroids/beating-the-crossfit-drug-test

stecleary

fishfoodie wrote: »

Even in amateur races, someone is likely to notice that kind of transformation !

I wouldn't link weight loss to doping, I've lost 7kg in a month by just sorting my diet and busting my ass for the month. If i used completely legal fatburners id hit 10kg in a month easy

Eamonnator

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

why would a farmer give his cattle weight loss drugs anyway, isnt beef sold by weight?

this is about crossfit but still worth reading, because theres not much testing done here either
I dont like some of the authors opinions or morals


https://www.t-nation.com/steroids/beating-the-crossfit-drug-test

It reduces fat and increases muscle,which is more desirable in beef, making it more expensive.

That article is mad.

Oryx

godtabh wrote: »

Wasnt there a middle aged women done for doping in the states recently?

For taking hrt apparently

Arrow in the Knee

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

why would a farmer give his cattle weight loss drugs anyway, isnt beef sold by weight

I'm a Farmer.

And we do not give animals 'weight loss drugs' for any reason.

He was caught and for irish cycling its a good thing as it shows the system is working.

velo.2010

This was simply a case of ego. He was a former Pro who must have thought it was his god given right to just turn up and win a mid level domestic race. After all, he was a top level junior rider so how could he not win? Well he didn't, not even after doping.

Some neck on him to do that to a business. Presumably, he bought some more 'Clen' or used whatever he had left over and rubbed some into a piece of steak.... I mean for fooks sake!

If I sound pissed off, yeah I am, I patronised his shop on a few occasion. He doesn't deserve to run any business after trying to destroy someone elses. I hope he's made to pay a very high financial price for this.

Lusk_Doyle

godtabh wrote: »

Its cheaper than I thought it is

http://supplementsdublin.com/shop/balkan-pharmaceuticals/clenbuterol-40ng/

but some one suggested that you would need to be on it for a long time. I wonder what kind of side effects it causes?

Acute cover up syndrome.

mathie

dragratchet wrote: »

insomnia and jitters (i just looked it up):P

I've those side effects from having two young kids.

fishfoodie

stecleary wrote: »

I wouldn't link weight loss to doping, I've lost 7kg in a month by just sorting my diet and busting my ass for the month. If i used completely legal fatburners id hit 10kg in a month easy

How would you know they're completely legal ?

Did you check their bona fides with the ISC or any other authorized body; or are you just going on what the size 0.000001 font on the package says ?

The pages of the doping authorities are full of positives from athletes who swear blind that they only tested positive from a contaminated supplement. Some of them may even be telling the truth.

kumate_champ07

Arrow in the Knee wrote: »

I'm a Farmer.

And we do not give animals 'weight loss drugs' for any reason.

He was caught and for irish cycling its a good thing as it shows the system is working.

but how many dont get caught?

morana

as some of you will have noted I was involved early on in this case. Can I just say I fully support the decision and the ban.

longfellow deeds

just back from my butcher,
all the beef sold out earlier today, I think my club mates beat me to it;)

kumate_champ07

weight loss supplements are not a good idea if your competing, unless its a brand you can 100% trust to have accurate labeling

safest to use would be pure green tea

C-Shore

Brian? wrote: »

Is there a chance suspicions were raised about him, which leg to the drug test?

I'm glad you asked!

Speculation deleted

MOD VOICE: N9 speculation over other riders

Arrow in the Knee

longfellow deeds wrote: »

just back from my butcher,
all the beef sold out earlier today, I think my club mates beat me to it;)

What butcher's is open at 11 at night?:rolleyes:

hawkeyethenoo

Careful over identifying info

safe to say i've been absolutely fuming through the whole thing. the absolute cheek of this joker. can't say what i really think of him. :mad:

BikeRacer

Having initially felt sorry sorry for the poor lad I read the whole 35 page document, my conclusion now is that he is a complete and utter moron.

kumate_champ07

a 200m sprinter tested positive for EPO recently, apparently he was 0.02seconds from qualifying for the last olympics. A and B sample, but he still maintains his innocence

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/steven-colvert-maintains-innocence-after-ban-1.2287692

Doc07

<SNIP>
As to the comments 'why dope for small prize money?' the money has nothing to do with it. There is no money in amateur or even Pro bodybuilding and drug use is everywhere. I've personally seen open drug use in two Dublin gyms. I think a fella in his 50's was caught doping in New York and all he 'competed' in we're sportives/grand fondos.

Leroy42

He could have caused massive damage to the whole beef industry if this got iut before the FSAI had a chance to totally dismiss it.

All just to save his sorry ass. Imagine the extra workload placed on the butcher to try to prove his innocence, I bet the FSAI and Dp of Agri were all over him.

Hope the butcher sues him for defemation.

Why would you even bother to fight it unless you were sure? Plead ignorance, take the ban and forget about it. If I was in the same, sure I'd be pissed off if I hadn't taken anything but the fight aint worth it.

The guy is a pr334 and should be made an example of by every cyclist. Forget the doping, its the rest of it that has me fuming

stecleary

fishfoodie wrote: »

How would you know they're completely legal ?

Because they have actually been approved by WADA

Zipp101

The Irish Times now running with the story with a photo of himself pictured with Sean Kelly with "Kelly hit with four year drug ban" in the title. :rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/irish-cyclist-ciaran-kelly-hit-with-four-year-drug-ban-1.2299003?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fother-sports%2Firish-cyclist-ciaran-kelly-hit-with-four-year-drug-ban-1.2299003

Dawn Rider

C-Shore wrote: »

I'm glad you asked!

The word on the street when it came out after the Gorey, is that one of his new teammates was caught trying to buy tramadol, and that's what led to the whole thing being looked into.

Is tramadol banned? Thought I read last year that Sky were using it.

Quigs Snr

Having had this guy pull the legs off me up in Clonard around the time of this, I feel a little better ! Then again I thought his performance was nothing special or rather nothing special for a former pro. Shows what I know.

Interesting the way "the lads" initially closed ranks around him, essentially collaborating in building a cock and bull story... and then vanished when it became clear that his defence (led by someone who should know a thing or two about dealing with dopers) wasn't going to cut it in an effort to damage control.

This will be the norm in the future however. He was caught, but there's a lot of guys who haven't been. These drugs are not hard to get, I was offered them in a gym a few months back by someone who thought I was a runner - had a Dublin marathon shirt on (who would actually buy these things, even if you were so inclined, how would you even know what you were taking ? Stupid risk for no meaningful reward). There's quite a bit of it in Irish cycling unfortunately. Its an open secret that there's a few lads, who should have a mortal fear of being asked to pee into a tupperware container - much to the annoyance of some.

Hopefully CI does something to up the volume of testing. Especially in the A1 category and especially at the top events. And maybe some sort of whistleblower scheme to allow targetted testing.

At the end of the day.. a bit of perspective, he didn't murder anyone. The only person really hurt in the long run is him. Clearly he wanted the adulation that comes with winning... and now he has this, the exact opposite. This is the worst punishment possible for him.

kumate_champ07

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Having had this guy pull the legs off me up in Clonard around the time of this, I feel a little better ! Then again I thought his performance was nothing special or rather nothing special for a former pro. Shows what I know.

Interesting the way "the lads" initially closed ranks around him, essentially collaborating in building a cock and bull story... and then vanished when it became clear that his defence (led by someone who should know a thing or two about dealing with dopers) wasn't going to cut it in an effort to damage control.

This will be the norm in the future however. He was caught, but there's a lot of guys who haven't been. These drugs are not hard to get, I was offered them in a gym a few months back by someone who thought I was a runner - had a Dublin marathon shirt on (who would actually buy these things, even if you were so inclined, how would you even know what you were taking ? Stupid risk for no meaningful reward). There's quite a bit of it in Irish cycling unfortunately. Its an open secret that there's a few lads, who should have a mortal fear of being asked to pee into a tupperware container - much to the annoyance of some.

Hopefully CI does something to up the volume of testing. Especially in the A1 category and especially at the top events. And maybe some sort of whistleblower scheme to allow targetted testing.

At the end of the day.. a bit of perspective, he didn't murder anyone. The only person really hurt in the long run is him. Clearly he wanted the adulation that comes with winning... and now he has this, the exact opposite. This is the worst punishment possible for him.

there is, I posted a thread about it when it was announced

kumate_champ07

https://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Report-Doping/

Leroy42

Quigs Snr wrote: »

At the end of the day.. a bit of perspective, he didn't murder anyone. The only person really hurt in the long run is him. Clearly he wanted the adulation that comes with winning... and now he has this, the exact opposite. This is the worst punishment possible for him.

But he did almost destroy a local butchers. The butcher could have lost his business, and you can bet the FSAI etc have been all over him and through all his records. All because this coward wanted to lie! He called into the question the whole meat industry in Ireland, and think of all the time and effort wasted due to this little fecker.

The FSAI said that their investigation lasted 5 months and they had 3 people working on it. We have had solicitors for all participants, lab testing etc.

<SNIP>

McQuaid comes out badly as you would have to question why he continued on with the defence when it was clear that he hadn't any evidence worthy of the name. No problem with him helping the guy out, we all deserve a chance to have our say, but in was all BS, none of it stood up at all. Did McQuaid even ask Kelly for any proof?

This story now gives more ammunition to the cycle haters. Its one thing saying that the top guys are taking it,but now the amateur sport as well? Why would any parent what little Jimmy to take up cycling? Forget about getting into the pro ranks, to even win the Gorey you need to be on something?

The only one to come out of this well, IMO, is the sports council, who seem to have really nailed him and went for the jugular. None of this, lets protect him etc, they showed the whole fairy story for what it was and got him the maximum.

Thats far from being only him hurt in this. Through is selfish actions, and his continued lying he has hurt all those and the whole of cycling.

buffalo

Leroy42 wrote: »

Forget about getting into the pro ranks, to even win the Gorey you need to be on something?

He only came 10th.

Brian?

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

EDITED safe to say i've been absolutely fuming through the whole thing. the absolute cheek of this joker. can't say what i really think of him. :mad:

Can you ask him if he minds being named publicly? He deserves a bump and a bit of support after this. I don't want to over step the mark though.

boysinblack

velo.2010 wrote: »

So the delay was an FSA investigation into the Irish beef industry..... jaysus. I presume the butcher involved has grounds to sue? Kelly must have spent some money on the whole sorry saga and might well spend more on the appeal.

Funny (or sad thing) is, plenty will still spend their cash in his shop, including many who knew what happened!

I will continue to use the shop anyways. The lads in there including ciarian are absolutely sound and have great bike knowledge . Always looked after me so can't see why I wouldn't use them again . What they get up to in their personal life is their own business imo....

12 sprocket

Paul Kimmage article... there seems to be major difference in how some athletes are treated depending on their sport.. Here's an article by Kimmage following a 2 year ban for a GAA player a few weeks go... it was a prophetic article and looks like he got it spot on.. THis guy was using the same drug as ben Johnson was caught on in the Olympics.. THis is not the only difference GAA players will not be visited by the anti doping people at their work place or home either, every other sportsperson in the country can be.. financial and political muscle?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-connolly-not-the-first-gaa-player-to-use-steroids-and-he-wont-be-the-last-31317362.html

average_runner

12 sprocket wrote: »

Paul Kimmage article... there seems to be major difference in how some athletes are treated depending on their sport.. Here's an article by Kimmage following a 2 year ban for a GAA player a few weeks go... it was a prophetic article and looks like he got it spot on.. THis guy was using the same drug as ben Johnson was caught on in the Olympics.. THis is not the only difference GAA players will not be visited by the anti doping people at their work place or home either, every other sportsperson in the country can be.. financial and political muscle?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-connolly-not-the-first-gaa-player-to-use-steroids-and-he-wont-be-the-last-31317362.html

Gaa is an amateur sport, can't expect guys that play at club level to be open to around the clock testing. U will drive people out of sport

Leroy42

12 sprocket wrote: »

Paul Kimmage article... there seems to be major difference in how some athletes are treated depending on their sport.. Here's an article by Kimmage following a 2 year ban for a GAA player a few weeks go... it was a prophetic article and looks like he got it spot on.. THis guy was using the same drug as ben Johnson was caught on in the Olympics.. THis is not the only difference GAA players will not be visited by the anti doping people at their work place or home either, every other sportsperson in the country can be.. financial and political muscle?


Oh quick, look over there, something incredible is happening and we must look over there now and stop looking at this!!!!

He was treated harshly because he lied. He also tried to race during his suspension, he tried to obtain a licence during his suspension, and his 'defence' was found to be a complete load of BS, it seems all based on the hearsay of some customer in the shop who he didn't know and hadn't seen since!!!!

12 sprocket

average_runner wrote: »

Gaa is an amateur sport, can't expect guys that play at club level to be open to around the clock testing. U will drive people out of sport

An all Ireland medal opens doors to good jobs, increased status in the community to name a few benefits for GAA players.. Whats the Gorey? Club level racing! and I agree with the testing of all different standards / categories. I think it should be a level playing pitch for every sportsperson in the country..

average_runner

12 sprocket wrote: »

An all Ireland medal opens doors to good jobs, increased status in the community to name a few benefits for GAA players.. Whats the Gorey? Club level racing! and I agree with the testing of all different standards / categories. I think it should be a level playing pitch for every sportsperson in the country..

Ok, so now you want to bring testing in for minor, u-21, junior, intermediate a and b, senior for club and county level, that would require alot of testers I tell ya.

Remember GAA has a massive membership compare to cycling.

If Irish Athletics was to test every member it be bankrupt

I do think senior county teams should be tested but not at work. There is no opportunity for these guys to go professional, in cycling there is an opportunity.

rtmie

Was McQuaid involved as his brief or as his agent? Report suggests agent, but why would an amateur have an agent /why would an agent with a roster like McQuaids have an amateur on his books?

kenmc

average_runner wrote: »

Ok, so now you want to bring testing in for minor, u-21, junior, intermediate a and b, senior for club and county level, that would require alot of testers I tell ya.

Remember GAA has a massive membership compare to cycling.

If Irish Athletics was to test every member it be bankrupt

I do think senior county teams should be tested but not at work. There is no opportunity for these guys to go professional, in cycling there is an opportunity.

If you went to that butcher you'd have to change your username

Lumen

average_runner wrote: »

Ok, so now you want to bring testing in for minor, u-21, junior, intermediate a and b, senior for club and county level, that would require alot of testers I tell ya.

My 9 y/o son would love to be dope tested. How pro is that?

kenmc

Lumen wrote: »

My 9 y/o son would love to be dope tested. How pro is that?

Give him a couple of years then raid his room early one morning, see if he still wants to be tested

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: The butchers requested not to be identified during the investigation so please do not add any potentially identifying info unless it is made clear they have changed their position.

There have also been posts accusing other riders in Ireland. If you have knowledge or suspicions please report it to the ISC anti doping section.

RobFowl

Dawn Rider wrote: »

Is tramadol banned? Thought I read last year that Sky were using it.

No it's not banned

Chips Lovell

To add to the warning above, please stick to the facts of the case.

Do not make any unfounded allegations, against the people named in the report or indeed against anyone else.

We've already had to delete a number of comments that could be deemed libellous.

Thanks

Junior

fishfoodie wrote: »

Even in amateur races, someone is likely to notice that kind of transformation !

stecleary wrote: »

I wouldn't link weight loss to doping, I've lost 7kg in a month by just sorting my diet and busting my ass for the month. If i used completely legal fatburners id hit 10kg in a month easy

To be fair even a 20Kg weight loss is very possible with diet and training. Cos it's what I did last year, I was up around 90kg mark and dropped to 71kg. Got myself a coach for 10 months, got a structured program, got a food plan and pushed myself. I hope to try do it all again this winter - I've had a year off the bike with the arrival of kids so dropping a large amount of weight doesn't make you a doper.