domestic rider banned for steroid abuse

morana

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Interesting the way "the lads" initially closed ranks around him, essentially collaborating in building a cock and bull story... and then vanished when it became clear that his defence (led by someone who should know a thing or two about dealing with dopers) wasn't going to cut it in an effort to damage control.

are you referring to me here? Because I can assure you I wasnt involved in any cock an bull stories etc.

Quigs Snr

. I only posted in this thread when I saw who represented him and wanted to hear others opinion's about a reputable person, well connected in the cycling world, standing up and representing a nonsense doping cover up story at the inquiry/judgement hearing. Apologies for my poor grammar.

Well to be fair to him they raced together and probably know each other well (see link.. they raced together, possibly spent a bit of time together on foreign soil) and is probably just trying to do a solid for a buddy out who is in a bad spot. I would think most people would do the same. So I wouldn't read much into it.

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Media/Latest_News/2006/January/CYCLING_Sean_Kelly_Professional_Team.html

Quigs Snr

morana wrote: »

are you referring to me here? Because I can assure you I wasnt involved in any cock an bull stories etc.

Well I'd hardly be referring to you now would I ?! I think your stance in this area is very well known to all of the long time regulars on here and anyone in Irish cycling after your actions a couple of years back.

Tomred13

Hi
Reading this topic all week and its no-surprise that people are doping on the irish circuit at the moment. Theres more than Mr Kelly at it and we would do well in trying to catch these cheaters too. Personaly ive know lads who would risk taking something for a boost. I remember heading with a cycling team to spain ( they were training, i was relaxing) in the early 90's and there being a mad dash by most of the team to the nearest pharmacy before we headed home, at the time you could buy pharmaceutical speed ( amphet) over the counter as a sliming aid. I was fookin shocked to say the least and as a racing junior it nearly scared me that these lads took competing so seriously. As others have said there's no monetry gain in doping on the irish scene, dopers do it for the ego!

Doc07

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Well to be fair to him they raced together and probably know each other well (see link.. they raced together, possibly spent a bit of time together on foreign soil) and is probably just trying to do a solid for a buddy out who is in a bad spot. I would think most people would do the same. So I wouldn't read much into it.

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Media/Latest_News/2006/January/CYCLING_Sean_Kelly_Professional_Team.html

I've no doubt he was only helping his friend and it's not like he was going to make any money out of it. But he's a registered agent with the UCI. Should he be representing a cock and bull doping cover up story? And if he insists on doing it should he get a free pass just because he was being loyal to a friend.

If a doctor had acted as his representative in the same fashion as Mr Mc Quaid I would be furious.

RobFowl

Doc07 wrote: »

I've no doubt he was only helping his friend and it's not like he was going to make any money out of it. But he's a registered agent with the UCI. Should he be representing a cock and bull doping cover up story? And if he insists on doing it should he get a free pass just because he was being loyal to a friend.

If a doctor had acted as his representative in the same fashion as Mr Mc Quaid I would be furious.

Are you saying he should not have been allowed have any representation?
He had a defence, it was heard and rejected.
He was however perfectly entitled to present it.
Anything else makes a sham of the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

Doc07

RobFowl wrote: »

Are you saying he should not have been allowed have any representation?
He had a defence, it was heard and rejected.
He was however perfectly entitled to present it.
Anything else makes a sham of the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

Ah no, of course he should be represented to make sure all is correct and fair. My point is that surely the optics of using a cycling Ireland/UCI connected guy look odd.

Cyclist: I'm in trouble, I was caught doping. Can you help me.

Agent: Sure, what's the story.

Cyclist: I bought dodgy meat of a butcher. Someone who I don't know or can't trace said the butcher uses frozen dodgy meat.

Agent: Sounds good, let's go with that story so.

rollingscone

equivariant wrote: »

A lot of posters are wondering why someone would bother doping in amateur racing. I think that its obvious really - the level really has nothing to do with it. Its all down to the personality of the rider. I came across this old article recently and I think that it gives a good insight into the mindset involved.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/in-search-of-relevance-a-cat-3-turns-to-epo-and-hgh_232611

Great article thanks

RobFowl

Doc07 wrote: »

Ah no, of course he should be represented to make sure all is correct and fair. My point is that surely the optics of using a cycling Ireland/UCI connected guy look odd.

Cyclist: I'm in trouble, I was caught doping. Can you help me.

Agent: Sure, what's the story.

Cyclist: I bought dodgy meat of a butcher. Someone who I don't know or can't trace said the butcher uses frozen dodgy meat.

Agent: Sounds good, let's go with that story so.

So the prefered option is
Cyclist
I've got tested and think there's been a mistake
CI and friends
F*ck off, you're on your own

Doc07

He should be allowed defend himself and I agree with you about the cycling authorities helping out someone in general. I agree he shouldn't be told he is on his own and should be offered all the appropriate advice. I also believe that mistakes can be made by testers/labs etc and definately you deserve good advice and representation if such things occurs. So in general I have no problem with McQuaid stepping in to help a cyclist , former friends or not. But from the 35-page report, in this case the cyclist tried to provide improper evidence and divert the blame to a third party. So I don't believe cycling Ireland or an agents duty of care extends up to the point of backing up a bull**** story.

Anyway, all I really wanted was to suggest the agent has some responsibility here and to hear a few opinions on the matter as my wife was bored listening to me reading it out to her. Nothing like a bit of healthy debate.

Vino Veritas

<SNIP>

12 sprocket

You think its ok to "speculate and guess" in public (your own words) about such a serious issue?? then you make a statement about other people being knowingly involved.... Hope your not working in the judicial service...

Tenzor07

Vino Veritas wrote: »

What would you do in his situation?

Own up to it! Say yes, I used this product.. Then get my 6 month ban or whatever.
Instead of making up this "explanation" and now creating a massive shi*storm for himself and others.

He was obviously on the ISC radar leading up to the test..

Junior

RobFowl wrote: »

So the prefered option is
Cyclist
I've got tested and think there's been a mistake
CI and friends
F*ck off, you're on your own

<SNIP>

Chips Lovell

Seriously, this thread isn't going to stay open much longer if people don't stick to the facts of the case.

Don't make unfounded allegations, such as speculating on who else is doping, who may have facilitated this case or intimating wrong doing on the part of identifiable individuals.

morana

In Ireland the ISC ask CI to nominate events where testing should take place. These are usually National Champs etc. As far as I know there is a quota of tests to be carried out each year. There is also the Registered Testing Pool where riders must lodge TUE's etc with the NGB These people can have the testers turn up at their house at any time or the place where they indicated they would be as lodged in the whereabouts system. So in this instance I can only guess that they decided to change from the usual races.

In the north I think their sports council can just turn up at a TT or whatever and ask for tests they could do that here but with the cost of testing I dont think they do it.

Tenzor07

Interesting that the ISC turned up at a purely amateur A3/A2 event when there was some other higher level A1 races that day taking place in the country...

JK.BMC

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Interesting that the ISC turned up at a purely amateur A3/A4 event when there was some other higher level A1 races that day taking place in the country...

Gorey is A2/A3 but I get the point

Beasty

I'll posy this here as TUEs have already been mentioned and there may be a relevance for any domestic rider chosen for testing.

I am curious over how TUEs work in practice particularly at a domestic level but also extending to UCI designated events (such as the Ras but also the likes of the World Track Masters which has some relevance in my own case)

There's every chance I will need a steroid injection in my shoulder to deal with a longstanding issue. If I have it done do I need to declare it in advance of certain events? Do I need to avoid any events for a period? Or do I simply declare the use (under medical direction) should I ever be chosen for testing?

lennymc

my undertsanding of TUEs is that if you race at an international or national level you are required to inform the ISC or the medication, but only if that medication is on the wada list. I may be wrong tho.

morana

Beasty wrote: »

I'll posy this here as TUEs have already been mentioned and there may be a relevance for any domestic rider chosen for testing.

I am curious over how TUEs work in practice particularly at a domestic level but also extending to UCI designated events (such as the Ras but also the likes of the World Track Masters which has some relevance in my own case)

There's every chance I will need a steroid injection in my shoulder to deal with a longstanding issue. If I have it done do I need to declare it in advance of certain events? Do I need to avoid any events for a period? Or do I simply declare the use (under medical direction) should I ever be chosen for testing?

my brother had a similar issue and when he asked CI if they wanted a TUE he was told no as he wasnt in the RTP. you should bring it to your event to present if you are called for a test

morana

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Interesting that the ISC turned up at a purely amateur A3/A2 event when there was some other higher level A1 races that day taking place in the country...

maybe that was one of the nominated events.

Tenzor07

morana wrote: »

maybe that was one of the nominated events.

Sounds like quite a random nomination so, or maybe it was picked with good reason.. Guess we'll never know...

Chips Lovell

It's one of the best known and prestigious stage races in the country. I don't think it's that unusual it would be targeted for testing.

Junior

Sorry but what was up with the comments I made ?

Lusk_Doyle

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Seriously, this thread isn't going to stay open much longer if people don't stick to the facts of the case.

Don't make unfounded allegations, such as speculating on who else is doping, who may have facilitated this case or intimating wrong doing on the part of identifiable individuals.

What if I said that I was doping? Does that count as speculation?

Thud

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Well to be fair to him they raced together and probably know each other well (see link.. they raced together, possibly spent a bit of time together on foreign soil) and is probably just trying to do a solid for a buddy out who is in a bad spot. I would think most people would do the same. So I wouldn't read much into it.

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Media/Latest_News/2006/January/CYCLING_Sean_Kelly_Professional_Team.html

"The team’s dedicated doctor has also worked with Discovery, one of cycling’s most prolific racing teams and will be responsible for the testing and medical advice given to the riders"

Anyone know who was the doctor?

cunavalos

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

It's one of the best known and prestigious stage races in the country. I don't think it's that unusual it would be targeted for testing.

It also takes place on the same weekend as the Tour of the North and Ras Mumhan which are higher ranked events.
Historically has any testing ever been performed at these events.
If not then it would be unusual to select the Gorey over these two events.

Finnrocco

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What if I said that I was doping? Does that count as speculation?

I'd say its more an admission.

Prove it though ... go up the road and ride the whole peleton off your wheel!

Joking - I am not advocating the use of illegal performance enhancing substances, methods or procedures.

Inquitus

Finnrocco wrote: »

Prove it though ... go up the road and ride the whole peleton off your wheel!

He did that at the Mark Mullen league a couple of years ago, now I know how

Zyzz

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What if I said that I was doping? Does that count as speculation?

Haven't the people of Lusk only discovered the wheel??

lescol

cunavalos wrote: »

It also takes place on the same weekend as the Tour of the North and Ras Mumhan which are higher ranked events.
Historically has any testing ever been performed at these events.
If not then it would be unusual to select the Gorey over these two events.

Riders at Ras Mumhan have been tested on the last day for some years.

wav1

cunavalos wrote: »

It also takes place on the same weekend as the Tour of the North and Ras Mumhan which are higher ranked events.
Historically has any testing ever been performed at these events.
If not then it would be unusual to select the Gorey over these two events.

There has been ISC testing at Gorey for the past number of years,so not unusual.This continued this year also [2015]

Lusk_Doyle

Zyzz wrote: »

Haven't the people of Lusk only discovered the wheel??

Yes. I brought it to them from Portmarnock which is where I am from so BOOM to you!

Lusk_Doyle

Inquitus wrote: »

He did that at the Mark Mullen league a couple of years ago, now I know how

Yea I copped after that night that it was too obvious so I knocked it on the head.