What national teams do you fear for in the next 5 years?

Kermit.de.frog

In terms of the fall in standard of players playing for them?

Sweden and Portugal. Both are heading for a rough time in my opinion. The standard of player coming through is not what it was 10 years a go. I can see both really starting to struggle.

A bit like Ireland 10 years a go - but we did not have as much success as them. Think it will hit their fans harder.

Any others?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Weren't Sweden and Portugal contesting the latest Euro U21 final?

The_Kew_Tour

Republic of Ireland

Kermit.de.frog

I have pointed out time and time again the dreadful situation we are in. We won't qualify for the euro's nor the next world cup. That's spilt milk. I'm talking about teams that have had real success. Look at Brazil for example. Resorting to Irish style hoof ball.

eagle eye

Argentina don't look in great shape for the next World Cup. Most of their current squad will be over 30 and there isn't much coming through.

TheDoc

Massively fearful for ourselves. Absolute void of talent coming through, and less and less players cutting the grade in England, as much higher calibre player coming in from Europe and elsewhere.

Lack of a coherent plan from the FAI is setting us up for a dark age of football with the national team unfortunately. We just need to pray for bright sparks to come through totally of their own accord, and then hopefully get snapped up by clubs in England to coach them, because it certainly won't happen here.

Unsure how the FAI can continue to see value, or even finance, large wages for more mediocre managers with inflated reputations either, I'd say the calibre of manager will regress, although I'd actually prefer if someone younger and bold was put in charge, willing to sink their teeth into imprinting somke identify and tactics to be played throughout the levels.

newballsplease

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Weren't Sweden and Portugal contesting the latest Euro U21 final?

Hahahaha!!

CSF

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have pointed out time and time again the dreadful situation we are in. We won't qualify for the euro's nor the next world cup. That's spilt milk. I'm talking about teams that have had real success. Look at Brazil for example. Resorting to Irish style hoof ball.

You've kind of ignored the post about Sweden and Portugal contesting the under 21 final

Mr.Nice Guy

I think it will be interesting to observe how the Dutch fare over the next few years. A lot of their stalwarts like Sneijder, Van Persie, Robben, Huntelaar etc. are approaching the final years of their careers. With the exception of Depay, are there any real top quality young stars emerging? They are struggling in their current Euro 2016 qualifying group and are in the play-off spot behind Iceland and the Czech Republic. They have also been assigned a tough World Cup draw with a group containing France and Sweden that will be no cakewalk.

Like others have said, I'd be extremely concerned about our own prospects. We could be looking at a decade of being in the doldrums.

CSF

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it will be interesting to observe how the Dutch fare over the next few years. A lot of their stalwarts like Sneijder, Van Persie, Robben, Huntelaar etc. are approaching the final years of their careers. With the exception of Depay, are there any real top quality young stars emerging? They are struggling in their current Euro 2016 qualifying group and are in the play-off spot behind Iceland and the Czech Republic. They have also been assigned a tough World Cup draw with a group containing France and Sweden that will be no cakewalk.

Like others have said, I'd be extremely concerned about our own prospects. We could be looking at a decade of being in the doldrums.

There's actually a good few young players in the Dutch setup. This could be part of the reason for them not doing so well this campaign. Whether they go on to compete in future campaigns will probably depend largely on how many of this generation push on and go from good players to great players, and find themselves at the really big clubs.

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it will be interesting to observe how the Dutch fare over the next few years. A lot of their stalwarts like Sneijder, Van Persie, Robben, Huntelaar etc. are approaching the final years of their careers. With the exception of Depay, are there any real top quality young stars emerging? They are struggling in their current Euro 2016 qualifying group and are in the play-off spot behind Iceland and the Czech Republic. They have also been assigned a tough World Cup draw with a group containing France and Sweden that will be no cakewalk.

Like others have said, I'd be extremely concerned about our own prospects. We could be looking at a decade of being in the doldrums.

That should be not bother according to the OP

keeponhurling

CSF wrote: »

You've kind of ignored the post about Sweden and Portugal contesting the under 21 final

Serbia recently won the World Cup U20, beating Brazil in the final.
Should we be fearing for them as well?

Nalz

Norway, Turkey and Bulgaria.

Are they almost in the same boat as us?

keeponhurling

TheDoc wrote: »

Massively fearful for ourselves. Absolute void of talent coming through, and less and less players cutting the grade in England, as much higher calibre player coming in from Europe and elsewhere.

Lack of a coherent plan from the FAI is setting us up for a dark age of football with the national team unfortunately. We just need to pray for bright sparks to come through totally of their own accord, and then hopefully get snapped up by clubs in England to coach them, because it certainly won't happen here.

Unsure how the FAI can continue to see value, or even finance, large wages for more mediocre managers with inflated reputations either, I'd say the calibre of manager will regress, although I'd actually prefer if someone younger and bold was put in charge, willing to sink their teeth into imprinting somke identify and tactics to be played throughout the levels.

Once we are eliminated from Euro 2016 we do really need to put faith in youth.
Keane, Given, Whelan, Walters, O'Shea etc., while fine players in their day, should make way.
Better let younger lads get a go, and hope they can take responsibility, hopefully in a few years we'll have a competitive team again.

Cienciano

Netherlands, they have a history of producing world class players, but looks like it's coming to an end at the moment. Probably will be able to field decent teams still, but not as high quality as before

inforfun

Can only admit that i worry for Holland the next Euro's and WC.
Qualification for the Euro's will be hard enough even if Robben,Van Persie and to a lesser degree Strootman will be fit.

Add to that the change of coach, Hiddink stepped down but his successor Danny Blind will be no success either.

It could have been so different had the Dutch FA appointed Ronald Koeman who was really eager for the job.
At least he would have looked first what was available and put a realistic team on the pitch in stead of Hiddink's approach, playing the Dutch way.
There are no players to play the Dutch way at the moment and he should have continued Van Gaals approach during the WC in Brazil.

There is no excuses left, all matches needed to be won but with Czech rep, Iceland at home and Turkey, Kazakhstan away that will be hard enough.

And the draw for the WC couldnt have gone worse.

Nalz

keeponhurling wrote: »

Once we are eliminated from Euro 2016 we do really need to put faith in youth.
Keane, Given, Whelan, Walters, O'Shea etc., while fine players in their day, should make way.
Better let younger lads get a go, and hope they can take responsibility, hopefully in a few years we'll have a competitive team again.

Whelan? Fine player me hole

CSF

keeponhurling wrote: »

Serbia recently won the World Cup U20, beating Brazil in the final.
Should we be fearing for them as well?

Probably!!

Sand

keeponhurling wrote: »

Once we are eliminated from Euro 2016 we do really need to put faith in youth.
Keane, Given, Whelan, Walters, O'Shea etc., while fine players in their day, should make way.
Better let younger lads get a go, and hope they can take responsibility, hopefully in a few years we'll have a competitive team again.

The younger lads aren't there really. Its difficult to put faith in them when they cant seem to take their places in the team from the likes of Keane, Given, Whelan, Walters and O'Shea and cant seem to get regular slots in Premier league teams.

The Golden Miller

inforfun wrote: »

Can only admit that i worry for Holland the next Euro's and WC.
Qualification for the Euro's will be hard enough even if Robben,Van Persie and to a lesser degree Strootman will be fit.

Add to that the change of coach, Hiddink stepped down but his successor Danny Blind will be no success either.

It could have been so different had the Dutch FA appointed Ronald Koeman who was really eager for the job.
At least he would have looked first what was available and put a realistic team on the pitch in stead of Hiddink's approach, playing the Dutch way.
There are no players to play the Dutch way at the moment and he should have continued Van Gaals approach during the WC in Brazil.

There is no excuses left, all matches needed to be won but with Czech rep, Iceland at home and Turkey, Kazakhstan away that will be hard enough.

And the draw for the WC couldnt have gone worse.

Hiddink or Koeman? There is no contest there. If you look at it from the Netherlands point of view, how could they have gone for Koeman? Hiddink had serious pedigree, one of the top manager around. Whereas with Koeman, and unlike what most of us have been exposed to in relation to Koemans managerial career over here, the Dutch have witnessed Koeman destroying and regressing any team he went near for 10 odd years. Fair enough, he done a steady enough job at Feyenoord, but keeping them at second is the very least they would be expecting, considering their resources and PSV in the wilderness (although I think you follow Feyenoord, so will be biased). Up until then, nothing he achieved should have put him within an asses roar of the Dutch national team. He may be considered now, but I feel he'd need another few years to prove himself. Despite what he's done with Southampton up until now, I wouldn't be surprised to see them relegated by the end of his tenure.

inforfun

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Hiddink or Koeman? There is no contest there. If you look at it from the Netherlands point of view, how could they have gone for Koeman? Hiddink had serious pedigree, one of the top manager around.

Hiddink basically won SFA since 1988 (PSV ECI). Since then made a mess of EURO96, should have done better than 4th in WC98 (remember that Dutch team had the Ajax team of 95 and 96, CL win and final).
In 2002 it was a corrupt referee that got him to the semi's with S Korea. Since then he has done nothing but filling his pockets.
Some pedigree:



Need to mention, although not 100% Hiddinks fault, PSV had to do some dodgy deals with Eindhoven city (sold the ground under their stadium for inflated price) in order to survive those Hiddink years (2003-2006) as the had been spending a lot more than what was earned. Their club president was mostly at fault of course as he signed off for al lthe transfers.

The Golden Miller wrote:

Whereas with Koeman, and unlike what most of us have been exposed to in relation to Koemans managerial career over here, the Dutch have witnessed Koeman destroying and regressing any team he went near for 10 odd years. Fair enough, he done a steady enough job at Feyenoord, but keeping them at second is the very least they would be expecting, considering their resources

When Koeman arrived at Feyenoord the club was close to €40 million in debt, had no resources whatsoever, had to sell Wijnaldum, Castaignos and Fer in order to continue being a club. Had those 3 not been sold, there wouldnt be a Feyenoord today. They were replaced with unexperienced players that had been on loan or came from the youth academy. Added to that was a certain John Guidetti and Feyenoord finished 2nd in Koemans first year after finishing 10th (with the trio mentioned before) the season previous. After that he finished 3rd and again 2nd without having been able to spent any money whatsoever.
Under his management we have seen Stefan de Vrij, Bruno Martins Indi, Darryl Janmaat, Jordy Clasie become Dutch internationals.
He even got Graziano Pelle to become a full Italian international.

The resources in those 3 years where at Ajax, PSV, Twente and to a certain degree Vitesse. Feyenoord had the 4th or 5th budget in those years.
But with Vitesse being Chelsea II you can easily say they had bigger resources than Feyenoord.

The Golden Miller wrote:

and PSV in the wilderness (although I think you follow Feyenoord, so will be biased). Up until then, nothing he achieved should have put him within an asses roar of the Dutch national team. He may be considered now, but I feel he'd need another few years to prove himself. Despite what he's done with Southampton up until now, I wouldn't be surprised to see them relegated by the end of his tenure.

Yes, i am biased as i was born and raised in the vicinity of the Feyenoord stadium and had my first experience in that stadium age 7.
But fortunately i am not blind.

As it comes to trophies, Koeman is a bit short compared to Hiddink but then again, he hasnt been managing that long yet.


There is the need though for some addition to that list as i think getting in to Europe with Vitesse (his 1st job as a manager) is on par with becoming champion with psv or ajax. And 2nd,3rd and again 2nd with Feyenoord was a job very well done as well.
Also managed to kick Liverpool out of the CL in 2006 (the year after they won it)

Southampton might not finish 7th again this year with the EL keeping them busy but relegation this or next season......?


TL;DR Koeman > Hiddink for the Dutch national team who are now in deep **** because of wrong appointment. Dutch FA came to that conclusion as well as they kicked him out.

NIMAN

Brazil in the future will always be disappointing I think. They will never get back their mystique. At present they only have one player who plays in the old style, Neymar. The rest are just like Europeans. Functional and predictable.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them drop down the world rankings significantly in the future.

As for ourselves, we really need a change of attitude as to how we coach youngsters if we are to improve as a nation. We need to start copying how the Spanish play the game, and not the English. This starts right back with very young kids. Our coaches need to improve dramatically. It should all be about skill, passing and moving, not physique, running, chasing, pressure etc.

Look at how Germany turned around their fortunes after England spanked them 5 v 1 all those years ago. They put plans in place to sort out the mess, and did it. Whereas we just stick our heads in the sand and think 'aw sure it'll be grand'.

The Golden Miller

inforfun wrote: »

Hiddink basically won SFA since 1988 (PSV ECI). Since then made a mess of EURO96, should have done better than 4th in WC98 (remember that Dutch team had the Ajax team of 95 and 96, CL win and final).
In 2002 it was a corrupt referee that got him to the semi's with S Korea. Since then he has done nothing but filling his pockets.
Some pedigree:



Need to mention, although not 100% Hiddinks fault, PSV had to do some dodgy deals with Eindhoven city (sold the ground under their stadium for inflated price) in order to survive those Hiddink years (2003-2006) as the had been spending a lot more than what was earned. Their club president was mostly at fault of course as he signed off for al lthe transfers.





When Koeman arrived at Feyenoord the club was close to €40 million in debt, had no resources whatsoever, had to sell Wijnaldum, Castaignos and Fer in order to continue being a club. Had those 3 not been sold, there wouldnt be a Feyenoord today. They were replaced with unexperienced players that had been on loan or came from the youth academy. Added to that was a certain John Guidetti and Feyenoord finished 2nd in Koemans first year after finishing 10th (with the trio mentioned before) the season previous. After that he finished 3rd and again 2nd without having been able to spent any money whatsoever.
Under his management we have seen Stefan de Vrij, Bruno Martins Indi, Darryl Janmaat, Jordy Clasie become Dutch internationals.
He even got Graziano Pelle to become a full Italian international.

The resources in those 3 years where at Ajax, PSV, Twente and to a certain degree Vitesse. Feyenoord had the 4th or 5th budget in those years.
But with Vitesse being Chelsea II you can easily say they had bigger resources than Feyenoord.



Yes, i am biased as i was born and raised in the vicinity of the Feyenoord stadium and had my first experience in that stadium age 7.
But fortunately i am not blind.

As it comes to trophies, Koeman is a bit short compared to Hiddink but then again, he hasnt been managing that long yet.


There is the need though for some addition to that list as i think getting in to Europe with Vitesse (his 1st job as a manager) is on par with becoming champion with psv or ajax. And 2nd,3rd and again 2nd with Feyenoord was a job very well done as well.
Also managed to kick Liverpool out of the CL in 2006 (the year after they won it)

Southampton might not finish 7th again this year with the EL keeping them busy but relegation this or next season......?


TL;DR Koeman > Hiddink for the Dutch national team who are now in deep **** because of wrong appointment. Dutch FA came to that conclusion as well as they kicked him out.

There's only a "big 3" in the Netherlands because of Hiddink. How can he be blamed for going out to Brazil on peno's in 98? You're making alot of excuses to try and put Hiddink down, as if any success is down to luck, and to big Koeman up, as you're looking through rose tinted glasses because he done an average to decent job at Feyenoord. Looking at it from the Netherlands point of view, why on earth would they have signed him up after a few average seasons at Feyenoord? He couldn't even deliver one of the traditional big 2 teams the title in 3 or 4 attempts. I'll say he done a decent job at Feyenoord because he steadied the ship somewhat, but Feyenoord managers shouldn't be measured against abysmal displays of seasons previous. It's easy to criticise the Dutch FA in hindsight.

Well since 2002, I'd say Hiddink done a stellar job at PSV, but we'll leave that one out to suit your argument. He also done a great job with a poor Russian team, who had never been competitive since when... 1988? And for a time had them as one of the best in Europe. Didn't he bring Australia to the knock-out stages of the world cup for the first time ever? I seem to remember him turning Chelsea around in 09 also, a team who were a mess since Mourinho left, with everyone wanting him to stay. I'll accept he done a terrible job at Turkey, but it was more down to the fact he wouldn't stay in the country and came under huge criticism because of it, and led to tension in the camp. Not so much to do with his ability mind you. Anzhi is a hard one to judge.

Bottom line is, the vast majority of teams he goes to he gets the best out of them. In contrast, until 2011, Koeman ruined every team he touched. But he wasn't just bad, he was so so bad. I'd take Vitesse with a pinch of salt as he left them after a year, and probably would have got them relegated in the end. After that, the odd cup or league just papered over the cracks for how far back he actually brought every team by the end of his tenure, the highlight being Valencia. If I'm not mistaken, after Vitesse and before Feyenoord, he was sacked from every job. As I said, easy to say he should of got the Dutch job in hindsight, but at the time the Dutch FA simply can't be faulted for going with Hiddink

paulbok

Islamic State, once they pay Sepp to let them join Fifa.

Saipanne

paulbok wrote: »

Islamic State, once they pay Sepp to let them join Fifa.

The All Blacks

http://www.cfr.org/publication/image-resizer.php?id=14811&preset=bkg_tcp_1160

paulbok

paulbok wrote: »

Islamic State, once they pay Sepp to let them join Fifa.

Can they trump North Korea's 2026 bid? :pac:

Iused2likebusts

NIMAN wrote: »

Brazil in the future will always be disappointing I think. They will never get back their mystique. At present they only have one player who plays in the old style, Neymar. The rest are just like Europeans. Functional and predictable.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them drop down the world rankings significantly in the future.

As for ourselves, we really need a change of attitude as to how we coach youngsters if we are to improve as a nation. We need to start copying how the Spanish play the game, and not the English. This starts right back with very young kids. Our coaches need to improve dramatically. It should all be about skill, passing and moving, not physique, running, chasing, pressure etc.

Look at how Germany turned around their fortunes after England spanked them 5 v 1 all those years ago. They put plans in place to sort out the mess, and did it. Whereas we just stick our heads in the sand and think 'aw sure it'll be grand'.

Brazil will be back a population of 200 million. A nation that loves football they are going through a poor cycle that has happened before but I've no doubt they will be back.

weisses

The Golden Miller wrote: »

In contrast, until 2011, Koeman ruined every team he touched.

And Hiddink managed to do that after 2011

I have Respect for Hiddink and his career but he was not the same as he was before, he looked very disconnected from day 1. Also his ego steered him away from the tactics used in the previous world-cup resulting in embarrassing results.

The Interest in Koeman from the Dutch FA came from his excellent work at Feyenoord, and looking what he does at Southampton now I think its an opportunity missed

anncoates

Name of the country escapes me now.

Edge of Europe. Fair weather supporters. Relies on England to bring players through. Rains a lot.

It's on the tip of my tongue.

keeponhurling

anncoates wrote: »

Name of the country escapes me now.

Edge of Europe. Fair weather supporters. Relies on England to bring players through. Rains a lot.

It's on the tip of my tongue.

Scotland ? Wales? N.Ireland? Iceland?
Spit it out, man

gosplan

NIMAN wrote: »

Brazil in the future will always be disappointing I think. They will never get back their mystique. At present they only have one player who plays in the old style, Neymar. The rest are just like Europeans. Functional and predictable.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them drop down the world rankings significantly in the future.

As for ourselves, we really need a change of attitude as to how we coach youngsters if we are to improve as a nation. We need to start copying how the Spanish play the game, and not the English. This starts right back with very young kids. Our coaches need to improve dramatically. It should all be about skill, passing and moving, not physique, running, chasing, pressure etc.

Look at how Germany turned around their fortunes after England spanked them 5 v 1 all those years ago. They put plans in place to sort out the mess, and did it. Whereas we just stick our heads in the sand and think 'aw sure it'll be grand'.

Brazil need to sort out things at a youth level.

In the past, they could rely on sheer numbers and a national love for the game.

The problem now is that 1 Spanish or German midfielder coached properly from the age of 10 is worth 4 Brazilian equivalents.

Germany poured money into football to achieve what they have now.

Mostly they built astros in neighbourhoods and trained and paid underage coaches.

A really bloody straightforward solution - but one that requires patience.

Much like Finland in the 80s poured money into education.

The problem in a country like Ireland is that these long term solutions won't help to get anyone re-elected anytime soon.

Berserker

gosplan wrote: »

The problem in a country like Ireland is that these long term solutions won't help to get anyone re-elected anytime soon.

And those who are in power will never give football favourable treatment ahead of the "national" sports. I think RoI football is in for a very tough time over the next ten years or so. The only realistic saving grace for football in the RoI, is if some sugar daddy buys a top division club, with a view to making it competitive on a consistent basis in Europe. The other clubs will survive by feeding off the scraps from that club. If that doesn't happen, the league here will die and the national team will become a fourth or fifth pot team for the major championships.

dreamers75

Ireland and England.

England will play a player from the Champo in the next 5 years and Ireland a player from the LOI.

To have any notions of qualifying for an international we need at least 5 players playing CL groups every year, they have a bigger ideas of grandeur and will need 11+ The homegrown rule will help them as the the moneybags will buy English. We dont have that option.

dreamers75

dreamers75 wrote: »

Ireland and England.

England will play a player from the Champo in the next 5 years and Ireland a player from the LOI.

When they last reached the semi finals of the World Cup they used Steve Bull as a sub. He had been capped when Wolves were in the 3rd division.

NI, Iceland, Wales and other countries are doing pretty well without 5 players playing in the CL.