Previous tenant paid bills!

testaccount123

This is seriously dodgy.

Dont pay any bill until you've seen a physical copy showing the actual outstanding balance for the period you lived in the property.

TonyStark

potter18 wrote: »

Am I actually liable to pay as there is no outstanding debt with the gas company or is this more of a moral situation in that I should pay the guy as I was the one living there, even though he didn't seem to notice all year?!

If the bill were taken out via Direct Debit, the person who was charged for the bills can apply for all monies paid out in error to be returned.

The utility company will the pursue the person who was responsible for the bills to get their money back.

It had happened to me with a phone-bill that was left in my name when I was a student I was really pleased to get my money back.

Since this is a dispute between tenant and landlord, its a question of who is responsible for the bills.

FishOnABike

TonyStark wrote: »

If the bill were taken out via Direct Debit, the person who was charged for the bills can apply for all monies paid out in error to be returned.

The utility company will the pursue the person who was responsible for the bills to get their money back.

It had happened to me with a phone-bill that was left in my name when I was a student I was really pleased to get my money back.

Since this is a dispute between tenant and landlord, its a question of who is responsible for the bills.

But the landlord claims it was paid for by the previous tenant. It is therefore not a dispute between the landlord and the OP but between the OP and the previous tenant (possibly involving the gas company if the previous tenant's overpayment is resolved as you suggest above.)

If the landlord withholds the OPs deposit for this the landlord is creating a second dispute between himself and the OP. The OP would be fully justified in making a complaint to the PRTB for the return of his deposit in full and damages for the landlords unlawful action.

TheChizler

TonyStark wrote: »

If the bill were taken out via Direct Debit, the person who was charged for the bills can apply for all monies paid out in error to be returned.

You only have 8 weeks from the date of payment where it must be refunded on a no-questions asked basis. After that, if it was an authorised payment (which this was, the original tenant signed up) it's subject to the bank agreeing with your application. Plus it requires cooperation from the person who paid originally, something they don't seem willing to provide.

Captain Flaps

If I were you, I'd be saying the following to the LL:

- You are absolutely committed to ensuring that you pay for your the gas you used, and you're sorry if this impression was not given
- You wish to resolve this amicably to ensure that the situation is resolved to the satisfaction of all three parties
- You will not be handing over any more cash unless you see copies of bills covering the period in question
- If these are not forthcoming you will, regrettably have to get the PRTB involved as the LL is witholding your deposit under false pretences
- You do not care about the identity of the previous tenant, and if he wishes to use the LL as an intermediary that's entirely up to him, but both parties should understand that you are unhappy to hand over hundreds of euros without a) proof that this charge was merited and b) documentation which sheds a light on why the charges seemed so high)

It really is in the best interest of both the previous tenant and the LL to co-operate with the above, as if there really is 1000 bill that needs settling you're certainly not going to hand over the balance without the proper documents (you could literally walk away now and they'd be the ones out of pocket to the tune of the difference between your deposit and the bill). If they disagree you have to assume that something isn't right and get on to the PRTB, because I don't see how any reasonable person wouldn't see your request as the best course of action for everyone.

Patrickof

The LL has no involvement here. The gas liability is not his no matter what way this works out.

Neither is there any need to involve the previous tenant directly.

Get the gas reading from when you moved in (ideally you have this but either the Letting Agent, the Landlord, or the previous tenant might have it)
Contact the supplier (it'll have to be the same supplier that the previous tenant was with)
Tell them you moved in on whatever date and with the reading you took.
They will issue you a bill.
Pay that bill.

They will then refund the previous tenant, though they may wait until you have paid the amount first (they probably are not legally entitled to do this but they might anyway).

Problem solved.

Danjamin1

OP as others have said lodge a complaint with the PRTB ASAP, the landlord's chancing his arm. You will most likely be liable for the gas used but this should be resolved between you and the previous tenant as a civil matter. To be honest it's through their own neglect that this has happened, however you probably should have realised you would have a liability for the gas bill.

The landlord would have had to ensure the bill was settled for the previous tenant and should have provided you with meter readings when you were moving in, the balance you owe would be easily calculated and obtained from the gas supplier based on this information so don't pay the landlord a cent.

Viper_JB

I have no idea why the landlord is looking for money in this case, has he said he paid the money to the previous tenant? Has he made any effort at all to prove this to you? Does he have any evidence that the bill for the year is actually 1k (sounds like too round a figure)? Has he made any effort to show/prove this to you? The issue of the previous tenant paying your bills is not something he can hold a deposit over if he's not out of pocket - I would expect to be paying for it, but I wouldn't pay it without an itemized and dated bill from the utility company.

At this point you're going to have issues getting your deposit back as other posters have mentioned I would tell the landlord that a PRTB case will be opened if he with holds the deposit over this, if that doesn't change his position then open the case immediately (it will take some time so the sooner you get the process started the better).

potter18

Thanks everyone for your advice in this situation. I have asked the landlord twice for a copy of all the bills over the year and he has replied both times saying that the numbers he has emailed me are correct and that €1044 is due, but still have no concrete proof of this number.

CantGetNoSleep

I'd open the PRTB case immediately, if he had the bills and they were 1044€ he would have shared them when you asked to see them.

zarquon

potter18 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your advice in this situation. I have asked the landlord twice for a copy of all the bills over the year and he has replied both times saying that the numbers he has emailed me are correct and that €1044 is due, but still have no concrete proof of this number.

If he has validated the total as correct then he would have seen the bills. If he does not provide you with the same validating bills that he presumably had then he is trying to pull a fast one on you.

It's very simple, ask him for the proof of the bill total that he saw and tell him you will happily pay upon confirmation of the total.

COntact the PRTB immediately he if continues to refuse to show you the bills and still demands the money.

Ave Sodalis

potter18 wrote:

Thanks everyone for your advice in this situation. I have asked the landlord twice for a copy of all the bills over the year and he has replied both times saying that the numbers he has emailed me are correct and that €1044 is due, but still have no concrete proof of this number.

I would nearly be willing to bet that €1044 that the figure is pulled out of his arse if he won't show the bills. Keep a copy of those showing that the landlord is refusing to show bills.

backspacer

Just looking at this,fair enough perhaps the OP should have copped about the gas but still we all make mistakes.

As for the point in hand,am having an awful hard time figuring out what he has to do with this. The bills have been paid by this tenant and somehow he thinks you should be liable for it. This is one for PRTB OP, something stinks here and best guess its the landlord chancing his arm.

howtomake

I have to agree, big chancer!

potter18 wrote: »

..he said that previous tenant is not happy for my landlord to give back the deposit until I have paid the gas bill..

I had to read this three times, wtf. The previous tenant is not happy for the landlord to give you back your deposit? Well in that case you can tell the landlord that we at boards.ie are not happy for you to hand the cash over to him, or maybe you can say your mom too, might lend it just as much weight.

foggy_lad

potter18 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your advice in this situation. I have asked the landlord twice for a copy of all the bills over the year and he has replied both times saying that the numbers he has emailed me are correct and that €1044 is due, but still have no concrete proof of this number.

Can you let us know what type of apartment you were living in? was it in a block or was it a flat attached to a house(which people often call apartments)?

Also have you ever read or seen the gas meter for your apartment?

Noo

potter18 wrote:

Thanks everyone for your advice in this situation. I have asked the landlord twice for a copy of all the bills over the year and he has replied both times saying that the numbers he has emailed me are correct and that €1044 is due, but still have no concrete proof of this number.

So the landlord managed to get a copy of the "bill" and can tell you a total but is unable to forward said bill onto you....yep thats not dodgy. Sounds like it was always in his name.

dissed doc

He probably had more than one property or something on the bill,under his name, and now cannot separate it.

Regardless, the OP is liable for usage, but that is based on the units used from beginning to end of tenancy. That bill needs to be provided to pay it. There is no reasonable excuse for not simply scanning and emailing a PDF of the Board Gais bill or whatever, which will contain the units used. It would take 2 minutes.

For whatever reason, logic is saying to me that the landlord does not want the OP to have a copy of the bill because it will reveal something to the landlords liability, the charges are incorrect. The message that the tenant advises the landlord is just baloney. The whole things stinks! Stinks I tells ya!

I would urge the OP to find out the reading at the beginning of the tenancy and also, anyway, to take one now at the end.

Dardania

failing no bill, the tenant could make a reasonable estimate of the gas charges based on the BER cert for the dwelling (which I'm sure was provided at the start of the tenancy)

This doc details the kWh/m2 per year for the dwelling. Tenant can calculate the total kWH for the year, take the electricity kWh away from this, and the remainder is the gas kWh. Bord Gais et al. will publish their kWh rates on their websites, or even go to bonkers.ie to get an esitmate of the total annual cost, based on that consumption.

That number is the closest you will get, without knowing either speicifc usage, or seeing the actual bills. And would seem very reasonable in the eyes of a third party (e.g. PRTB)

FishOnABike

Noo wrote: »

So the landlord managed to get a copy of the "bill" and can tell you a total but is unable to forward said bill onto you....yep thats not dodgy. Sounds like it was always in his name.

If the bill was in the previous tenants name and he paid for your gas over the past year how did the landlord get a copy if the bills to tell you it is €1044? There would be data protection issues with getting copies of bills which were issued to another person.

The previous tenant knows your address - he lived there after all. Why wouldn't he have written directly to you or contacted you when he found he had being paying for your gas use?

If as a number of posters have suggested the bill may have been in the landlords name why would he not show you the bills and proof of payment so he could be reimbursed for your gas usage?

Whichever way the landlord's story doesn't add up and I'd not consider paying anything to anybody until I'd seen the bills and proof of payment. In the meantime I'd initiate a complaint with the PRTB asap if the landlord is messing around with not returning your deposit.

baldbear

I'm guessing your landlord has absolutely no legal right to keep your deposit.

The issue is between you and the previous tenant. I'd bring a case against your landlord to get the full deposit back & explain you are willing to pay what you owe when you see a bill. Contact PRTB.

The Dogs Bollix

Where were the bills going to for a year?

- Previous tenant
- Potters 18 address
- Co Whatever

Or

- Previous tenant
- At new address ?
And the tenant never noticed two gas bills arriving in his door ?

Not a NSA agent

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

Where were the bills going to for a year?

- Previous tenant
- Potters 18 address
- Co Whatever

Or

- Previous tenant
- At new address ?
And the tenant never noticed two gas bills arriving in his door ?

Could be online billing. The account holder would get an email saying their bill is available to view and 2 weeks later the money is taken from their account. It is possible to have 2 addresses connected to one account with electric ireland so might only get the one email.

I wouldnt hand over any money until a bill is shown. Should also get back your deposit, it isnt really the landlords problem so I dont know why he is getting involved other than giving the both you you the contact details of the other.

The Dogs Bollix

Why would the previous tenant not be happy for the landlord to give back the deposit. Why would they want it kept in the landlords pocket? Surely they should have said to pass on the deposit to them and cough up the remainder of what's owed... After all that is what the deposit is for, any unpaid bills and damage. Why is the landlord keeping it until its all sorted?

It's not adding up.

TheChizler

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

Why would the previous tenant not be happy for the landlord to give back the deposit..

Even if the landlord did this they would still have to provide a receipt to the OP anyway, as you're meant to do whenever something gets taken out of the deposit. I doubt this would be ok anyway as the deposit is for covering costs the landlord incurs caused by the tenant outside of regular wear and tear, this arguably has nothing to do with the landlord, unless he told the company the previous tenant was still there or something. But that would be his fault.