Finished cycling and about to get fish

paranoid user

I've been cycling my tank for nearly a month and will be getting fish this Saturday. 8 bloodfin tetra and 2/3 swordtail.

What kind of changes can I expect and how long will they go on for.

Am I adding to many fish in one go?

Thank you

kylith

I'd usually add no more than 6 fish at a time.

paranoid user

I was considering just getting the bloodfins and getting the swordtail later, but I don't have a second tank for isolation.

kylith

It's a tricky one, with a daily water change it might be ok. I find a small tank for quarantine is invaluable.

Berserker

What size tank do you have? I would go with the tetras first myself.

paranoid user

its only 54 liter, as im only starting so i didn't want to go much bigger. i think i might go from 8 to 6 bloodfins and 2 swordtails MM+F. the tank could take a few more according to the calculation sites but im worried about overloading the tank

Berserker

paranoid user wrote: »

its only 54 liter, as im only starting so i didn't want to go much bigger. i think i might go from 8 to 6 bloodfins and 2 swordtails MM+F. the tank could take a few more according to the calculation sites but im worried about overloading the tank

I would start off with the six bloodfins, see how that goes, i.e. watch out for changes in the cycle and when that settles think about adding more fish. The smaller the tank, the bigger the pain it is to keep it clean, in my experience. I started off with a similar size tank with cherry barbs and it nearly broke my heart keeping it clean.

Jen Pigs Fly

2 live bearers is a no no. Two males will fight each other and a male+female he will kill her from constant harrassement. Female+female will live together peacefully.

The magic ratio is 3:1 3 female for every male, at least then they'll have some sort of rest from his lustful harrassement.

paranoid user

The MM was a typo. Don't really want to see the female ridden to death. Thanks for the heads up, I think I'm going to go with just the 6 bloodfins and a single male swordtail.

paranoid user

well i got the fish and its been an eventful 24 hours.

i went to the orchard in celbridge and they didn't get the bloodfins so i went with penguin tetras. they all looked great but 10 hours after is got them the first one went, 4 hours later a second and this morning another two. the last two seem fine and the swordtail looks good.

i went back to the shop and my water is great... they think it may have been tank shock . i told them what i done and how and the only thing they think was i may have let them out of the bag a bit fast.

they replaced the 4 dead ones for free.

fingers crossed

Berserker

Sorry to hear they died. Seems rather quick. Have you tested the water, yourself? Did you dechlorinate the water? I live near that garden centre and I wouldn't be too keen on the stock in that place. Seahorse in Ballymount or Newlands Garden centre at Newlands cross would be better in terms of quality and selection.

Jen Pigs Fly

Berserker wrote: »

Sorry to hear they died. Seems rather quick. Have you tested the water, yourself? Did you dechlorinate the water? I live near that garden centre and I wouldn't be too keen on the stock in that place. Seahorse in Ballymount or Newlands Garden centre at Newlands cross would be better in terms of quality and selection.

Don't know about now, but a year or so ago the orchard were getting their fish from the exact same supplier as seahorse

Igotadose

How did you introduce them, and how did you cycle the tank? "Tank Shock" is pet shop speak for, "I have no idea what went wrong."

What are the tank parameters (Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite?) Are you testing with kits that haven't expired? What's the temp?

In other places you get at least a 24 hour guarantee - not sure in Ireland, sorry.

Any ill or dead fish at the shop? I avoid shops that don't take good care of their fish, have seen some real bad ones around here in Kerry.

Without more info, kind of hard to help. Sorry its off to a rough start.

As far as all the magic ratios people are spouting, it's just Google U knowledge being parroted about. With cover (plants, decorations) 8 smallish tetras and a few pair of livebearers will be fine. You should see what they raise them in, in the ponds in Florida.

Berserker

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Don't know about now, but a year or so ago the orchard were getting their fish from the exact same supplier as seahorse

Interesting. I was in there a month or so ago and there were dead fish in some tanks. Noticed that one of the live ones had white, stringy faeces too.

kylith

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Don't know about now, but a year or so ago the orchard were getting their fish from the exact same supplier as seahorse

The conditions they're kept in after reaching the shop are important though.

paranoid user

Igotadose wrote: »

How did you introduce them, and how did you cycle the tank? "Tank Shock" is pet shop speak for, "I have no idea what went wrong."

What are the tank parameters (Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite?) Are you testing with kits that haven't expired? What's the temp?

In other places you get at least a 24 hour guarantee - not sure in Ireland, sorry.

Any ill or dead fish at the shop? I avoid shops that don't take good care of their fish, have seen some real bad ones around here in Kerry.

Without more info, kind of hard to help. Sorry its off to a rough start.

As far as all the magic ratios people are spouting, it's just Google U knowledge being parroted about. With cover (plants, decorations) 8 smallish tetras and a few pair of livebearers will be fine. You should see what they raise them in, in the ponds in Florida.

i had the tank cycling for a month. i tested the water before i got the fish and after and there were virtually no change.
CL2 ~ 0
No2~0
No3~0
PH 7.2

the temp was a little hot at about 25 degrees. but i had the fish in the tank for about 30 min while bagged to match the temp. i reduced the temp to 24 and the new fish seem to be a bit happier, i took a lot longer introducing the replacements. so much so that the other tetra were trying to shoal while they were still bagged.

the swordtail is a ninja, he keeps hiding. but this 24 hours is better than the first

Silverfish

How did you cycle the tank?
If there were 0 nitrates, the tank was not cycled.

Igotadose

And even if the tank were uncycled, the fish shouldn't die overnight unless there was ammonia already in the tank.

OP did you feed them? Was the food consumed right away, in the first few seconds?

My guess is the shop's a loser and selling half-dead fish, but without more info its hard to say. I'd try and get some credit from them, fish shouln't keel over so quickly.

Were there other dead or sickly fish in the shop? Do they have their tanks individually filtered or a central system?

I'd be doing water changes though, and adding 1 tsp/gallon of salt to make it more hospitable to the fish that are surviving.

I've always found introducing fish by dripping them in works best - my guess is the water from the shop is really bad, usually they're terribly acidic due to bad shop tank maintenance. Drip them in using an airstone, a piece of airline tubing with a knot in it and a steady drip over a several hour period, 12 hours works well.

Jen Pigs Fly

Berserker wrote: »

Interesting. I was in there a month or so ago and there were dead fish in some tanks. Noticed that one of the live ones had white, stringy faeces too.

As I said this was around a year ago, since myself and the manager left I don't know what supplier is now being used, but wouldn't be surprised if there is someone who doesn't really know fish doing the orders.

We insisted on using Neil Hardy and TMC for our fish orders when we were there

paranoid user

Silverfish wrote: »

How did you cycle the tank?
If there were 0 nitrates, the tank was not cycled.

Using a phone so it auto filled the 0 after the ~. They are both low and the test kit says within safe limits

I used a filter I had used with a gold fish and dropped flake food in to rot.

Igotadose

Please describe how you introduced the fish to the tank. My guess: their environment at the shop was poor, and they were in a much lower pH than you introduced them to. It's about the only thing I can think of that kills fish so fast, stress on the gills. Did you measure the incoming water at all?

I don't get the 'let food rot' crowd. Just feed the goldfish and let them seed the tank naturally. Running a tank with a few goldfish that are well fed, is just what I'd recommend.

kylith

Igotadose wrote: »

I don't get the 'let food rot' crowd. Just feed the goldfish and let them seed the tank naturally. Running a tank with a few goldfish that are well fed, is just what I'd recommend.

Can't use goldfish if you're doing a fishless cycle, which is why feeding the empty tank is done. With a fish-in cycle you have to either use a hardy fish and then try to find new homes for them after, or use the fish you want and hope that they make it through the cycle ok.

Igotadose

I believe I've seen those prepackaged starter bacteria in shops in Kerry (FritzZyme maybe is the brand.) Personally have always cycled by either moving a filter from a preexisting tank - or a sponge or ceramic noodles if appropriate, or cycled with the fish I wanted. I'd wonder if you offered to buy a filter from a shop would they let you run it a few days on their tanks to get it going. Of course, need to be sure the shop's tanks are healthy, too.

Still, I don't think this is the problem the OP had. Bad conditions @ the shop like real low pH in the shop tanks, or stressed fish. Sometimes you can ask the shop to feed the fish and watch their behavior - if they don't go crazy for food, move on.

Ranchu

Igotadose wrote: »

And even if the tank were uncycled, the fish shouldn't die overnight unless there was ammonia already in the tank.

OP did you feed them? Was the food consumed right away, in the first few seconds?

My guess is the shop's a loser and selling half-dead fish, but without more info its hard to say. I'd try and get some credit from them, fish shouln't keel over so quickly.

Were there other dead or sickly fish in the shop? Do they have their tanks individually filtered or a central system?

I'd be doing water changes though, and adding 1 tsp/gallon of salt to make it more hospitable to the fish that are surviving.

I've always found introducing fish by dripping them in works best - my guess is the water from the shop is really bad, usually they're terribly acidic due to bad shop tank maintenance. Drip them in using an airstone, a piece of airline tubing with a knot in it and a steady drip over a several hour period, 12 hours works well.

You shouldn't add salt to aquariums with softwater South American tetras. They won't like it at all.

I wouldnt be so quick to blame the shop. When they said "tank shock" they most likely were referring to ph shock. The op also hasn't indicated what their nh4 level was or if it was even tested.

Penguin tetras can be quite sensitive and are probably not the best thing to add to the harsh environment of a brand new aquarium. Most tetras will settle better in a mature aquarium.

paranoid user

The ammonia nitrite and nitrates are all very low and have been all along. When I was introducing them I took about an hour - 30 min for the temperature to match and the rest dripping tank water into the bag.

The replacements are doing great. The swordtail was shy and slow to get food as the tetra are like sharks at feeding time but he is now king of the tank. One mid size tetra bullies the others but ****s it's self when the swordtail gets near him.

MiskyBoyy

Any photos?

paranoid user

Can't I haven't posted enough in the forums to be let put up pictures

MiskyBoyy

paranoid user wrote: »

Can't I haven't posted enough in the forums to be let put up pictures

Get that post count up so

Igotadose

An hours not enough usually; sounds like pH shock did them in.

In future, introduce one, see if it eats and is happy, and then gradually the rest. Never put pet shop water in your tanks either.

If possible, measure the pH etc of the shop water in the bag, prior to introducing, just to be sure you know what you're up against.

If you're worried about the fish in the bag, I sometimes put a small cube of poly-filter in a bag if I'm worried about ammonia in it.
http://amzn.to/1HI7eL5 great stuff when shipping fish or travel distances with bags of fish.

paranoid user

I didn't consider the PH, thanks. But it's a local shop so the water should be the same.

It's very odd that 4 of 6 died and no replacement. The original 6 came from a shoal of 20-30 with some other breeds in the tank aswell. Were the replacements were in a small group of 10-15.

Could the stress of a new tank combined with the shock of going to a small group have done it.

MiskyBoyy

paranoid user wrote: »

I didn't consider the PH, thanks. But it's a local shop so the water should be the same.

There's more to it than it being from the same water supply. They could have stuff in their tank that raises or lowers the pH. Some medications/water treatments. Even some types of bogwood etc. can all alter the pH.

Just to be sure, test the pH in the bag and compare it to your tanks pH next time you get fish.