Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2017

weldoninhio

Dots1982 wrote: »

Ok roll on with Stephen Kenny who'll introduce Ireland to breakneck, all attacking football and a remarkably free scoring team from a squad with absolute no goal scorers.

Who said anything about all attacking free scoring??

noodler

Dots1982 wrote: »

Ok roll on with Stephen Kenny who'll introduce Ireland to breakneck, all attacking football and a remarkably free scoring team from a squad with absolute no goal scorers.

Strawmen are back.

The_Kew_Tour

Stephen Kenny would not be worst choice. What have we got to lose know.

Its not like we have a Tacticial Genius at minute. Give him the Euro campaign and see how he goes.

I bet had he got 10 points from first 4 games we be at least sure of playoff now.

Martin O Neill is on €1million for that? No thanks

pjohnson

noodler wrote: »

Strawmen are back.

It had been a few days Mr. Straw. Hows the tatch?

HalloweenJack

Dots1982 wrote: »

Stephen Kenny has never been proven as a manager who could manage under pressure. Kilmarnock and Dundalk are cushy compared to Ireland which is becoming an extremely high pressure job due to very high expectations of success for a country with a domestic league that doesn't get even get middling attendances.

Never managed Kilmarnock. Get your facts straight before knocking someone.

Managed under plenty of pressure. He's won titles and made great strides in European football playing against teams from countries with different styles. Playing a big physical game is grand if you're playing the likes of England, Scotland, Wales and NI as they also have their players in similar leagues to ours.

Having a manager who has experience in beating teams that play that way (in the LOI) and play differently (in Europe, with Derry and Dundalk) is a lot better. I don't see why it has to be an Irish manager but I wouldn't be against Kenny whatsoever. He has trophy-winning experience and progressed in Europe against stronger sides. He's done plenty to earn a shot, imo. Why not give him a chance? It's not like he'll have a lot of competition for the job.

Again, the problems in the talent pool go back to our over-reliance on the youth system in the UK. Look at the standard of players it's producing for England and Scotland. If they can barely take care of their own, why would they do us any favours?

Long-term change needs to come from within Ireland with a unified strategy. Get away from playing physical football and focus on playing proper, technical football. It can be done. The culture of football in Spain, as an example, is about passing. In schools, at lower-age level, even in kickabouts with your mates, they are obsessed with passing the ball around. It's the Spanish approach to football and trickles all the way down. It can be done but it doesn't come overnight.

The alternative is to continue with what were playing now and get the occasional boost when a manager manages to pull off a magic trick and get us into a finals. But its an illusion, it hides the reality of what's really going on in Irish football, the reality that we're not progressing.

It's not MON's fault. He's working with what he's got and this is what the FAI's approach to football in Ireland over the last 30 years has led to. That said, it is the ugly football, the lack of faith shown in players and, lately, the poor results that are getting on my tits.

Under Charlton, all of a sudden we qualified for tournaments, the money rolled in and they lined their pockets. They thought it would go on forever, it didn't. They didn't plan for keeping it going because it all came together in the first place without any effort on their part. A few relative successes here and there since the Charlton years but it's not a true representation of our standing. The standard of players produced in Ireland and the UK has stagnated while other countries continue to advance.

Until the FAI do anything to fix this (highly unlikely with JD in charge) then we are doomed to continue in this cycle. If things stay the same where every six or right years we somehow reach a tournament and the money keeps rolling in, there's no incentive to change. However, what's happening to the overall quality of Irish players won't change. I know one poster has said it before, unfortunately I can't quite remember his name right now, but I fully agree with him: the FAI need to go through a period of ten to twenty years without qualifying for a tournament before they'll cop on to investing in youth development. However, with the expanded Euros, I doubt that's going to happen so we are doomed to repeat the cycle.

The Trapp and MON eras are the culmination of the FAI's lack of action. We somehow qualify for tournaments but the standard is in freefall.

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Stephen Kenny would not be worst choice. What have we got to lose know.

Its not like we have a Tacticial Genius at minute. Give him the Euro campaign and see how he goes.

I bet had he got 10 points from first 4 games we be at least sure of playoff now.

Martin O Neill is on €1million for that? No thanks

The knives are out for MON around here alright with "Thanks" from the usual suspects. All memories of Euro 16 erased as a clamour for Stephen Kenny to be appointed ensues.:rolleyes: What a load of bull.

HalloweenJack

My memories of Euro 16?

We outplayed Sweden and came away with a draw. We were toothless against Belgium and got ripped apart. The win against Italy was the high point and the initial fight against France was great but that game was another example of MON's "get a goal, sit back and defend for your lives" approach. I'm not saying we were going to win that game and France did play extrememly well but it was a knockout game, ffs, why not go for it?

This qualifying campaign has already peaked with the victory in Austria but there have been plenty of examples of the aforementioned attitude, most notably in the Serbia away game where they were there for the taking and, embarassingly, in the Georgia away game. The lack of faith MON puts in the players is another problem I have with him. They've shown at times under his leadership that they can do it but he's too restrictive, he doesn't trust the players enough.

yabadabado

Are people serious when they say Kenny should get the job?
He has done a fine job with Dundalk and the European run last year was good but he has very limited experience in 2 poor leagues.
I would like to see him get one of the underage jobs and build from there.

Banjaxed82

I went for a spontaneous ramble down my old park at the weekend, and nothing has changed since I played under age football there 20 years ago. Until the egos are taken out of Irish football (from top to bottom) nothing will change. And the person who does it will be hated in the short term.

Old but good article: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/27827569

Obviously our league wouldn't be at the same level as Belgium, but as has been mentioned, it's going to take somebody to take the bull by the horns and weather the inevitable storm of abuse they'll get. Irish football development won't change by accident.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Heard on the radio this morning that the FAI are going to offer MON another 2 year deal

LuckyLloyd

TheCitizen wrote: »

We didn't abandon our defensive shape last night?

I think you're at it.

Their overlapping fullback scored after us being totally exposed. In the first half, we were open on the break a lot giving up one very clear chance before half time.

The_Kew_Tour

Yes, I am serious about Kenny getting the job. Why Not? He wont do a worse bottle Job then O Neill.

Yes I rather a more high profile name, but be worse too.

Don't think the O Neill fan club has anything to worry about though as Kenny wont be next manager.

The_Kew_Tour

You would swear we conceded no goal before Tuesday night the way some of you are talking

Banjaxed82

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Heard on the radio this morning that the FAI are going to offer MON another 2 year deal

Would Keane stay on for another 2 years? Surely he's getting itchy feet at this stage?

Then again, it's hard to figure out how important his role is, so might not be a huge loss. If O'Neill does stay on, then anything that may freshen up things and and a new assistant would be welcome.

TheCitizen

yabadabado wrote: »

Are people serious when they say Kenny should get the job?
He has done a fine job with Dundalk and the European run last year was good but he has very limited experience in 2 poor leagues.
I would like to see him get one of the underage jobs and build from there.

That's just the kew tour I think, he threw up Stephen Kenny's name cos he couldn't think of anyone else. The kew tour is one of that lot that never wanted MON appointed in the first place. When he got us to Euro 16 though the kew tour no doubt jumped on the bandwagon and if we beat Wales and qualify for the World Cup via the players offs, the kew tour will clambour back on again.

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yes, I am serious about Kenny getting the job. Why Not? He wont do a worse bottle Job then O Neill.

Yes I rather a more high profile name, but be worse too.

Don't think the O Neill fan club has anything to worry about though as Kenny wont be next manager.

The kew tour; your fair weather friend.

TheCitizen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Their overlapping fullback scored after us being totally exposed. In the first half, we were open on the break a lot giving up one very clear chance before half time.

We've missed Coleman. We didn't do enough overlapping ourselves especially when they were 10 men. When Hoolahan went off the diamond should've been abandoned. McClean and Brady who was at left back should've been operating together on the left but McClean was straying elsewhere.

The_Kew_Tour

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Would Keane stay on for another 2 years? Surely he's getting itchy feet at this stage?

Then again, it's hard to figure out how important his role is, so might not be a huge loss. If O'Neill does stay on, then anything that may freshen up things and and a new assistant would be welcome.

I doubt Keane will stay, but O Neill will get handy 2 million, not like he going be rushed back to England by any decent side.

GavRedKing

Under O'Neill and Trapattoni and Charlton, the performance is often forgotten about if the result is right, once you lose and draw games you should really be winning, the microscope goes firmly back onto the performance and under O'Neill, the tactics and or lack of anything other than kick and chase football, is pretty clear.

We dont have any real star players but we do enough to get ourselves into or close to a playoff position.

Lets call a spade, a spade here though, O'Neill is basically a footballing dinosaur and his teams have always had a certain way of playing and as I said, if the result is right, you moan a bit but accept it, once the results go away though, theres nowhere really to hide for O'Neill and he has to shoulder the majority of the blame if we dont make the playoffs after a good start to the group.

Getting tot he Euros wasnt a success, the top 2 in the group go through and 3rd gets a playoff, at one stage Scotland had it wrapped up after they bate us away and drew with us at home, how they threw that away I'll never know, so I wont exactly say O'Neill bringing us to the Euros was a success story, it was as much to do with Scotland making a balls of the last few games.

If we dont make the playoffs after the position we were in after 6 games, O'Neill and Keane should go, IMO.

doncarlos

TheCitizen wrote: »

The knives are out for MON around here alright with "Thanks" from the usual suspects. All memories of Euro 16 erased as a clamour for Stephen Kenny to be appointed ensues.:rolleyes: What a load of bull.

The defense of O'Neill around here alright with thanks from the usual suspects. All memories of **** performances and lack of tactics erased and the clamour to keep the Celtic fans sweetheart in the Ireland role ensues .:rolleyes: What a load of bull.

markc91

Don't usually comment on here but I thought we could be here til the world cup starts and still have not scored against Serbia. The amount of Crosses the other night that were headed away at Ease was astonishing. We have scored 9 goals in 8 games compared to 12&15 Wales and Serbia. We need a centre forward who knows where the goal is we might only get one or two goal chances a game with these tactics and as much as I love Shane long he's not prolific enough to be our number 9. Even if we do get 2nd the lack of goals will probably cost us a playoff spot so we need to try blood Hogan and maguire because I'm fed up with us not scoring

doncarlos

yabadabado wrote: »

Are people serious when they say Kenny should get the job?
He has done a fine job with Dundalk and the European run last year was good but he has very limited experience in 2 poor leagues.
I would like to see him get one of the underage jobs and build from there.

And O'Neills experience? Managing in the same poor league and regression of two football clubs to relegation candidates?

Banjaxed82

markc91 wrote: »

Don't usually comment on here but I thought we could be here til the world cup starts and still have not scored against Serbia. The amount of Crosses the other night that were headed away at Ease was astonishing. We have scored 9 goals in 8 games compared to 12&15 Wales and Serbia. We need a centre forward who knows where the goal is we might only get one or two goal chances a game with these tactics and as much as I love Shane long he's not prolific enough to be our number 9. Even if we do get 2nd the lack of goals will probably cost us a playoff spot so we need to try blood Hogan and maguire because I'm fed up with us not scoring

I think if Maguire or Hogan are knocking in goals over the next month and Long is languishing on the bench still, O'Neill would have to give one of the lads a punt at least.

It's not like you're throwing in a new centre half who could cost us a goal. The worst that will happen with Hogan or Maguire is they don't score - so no change there for the Irish team.

TheCitizen

doncarlos wrote: »

The defense of O'Neill around here alright with thanks from the usual suspects. All memories of **** performances and lack of tactics erased and the clamour to keep the Celtic fans sweetheart in the Ireland role ensues .:rolleyes: What a load of bull.

With 'thanks' from your fair weather friend.

yabadabado

doncarlos wrote: »

And O'Neills experience? Managing in the same poor league and regression of two football clubs to relegation candidates?

O'Neill has a far superior cv than Kenny there is no comparison really and to suggest otherwise is stupid.
How much blame are you appointed to MON for Villa and Sunderland getting relegated even though he had left both clubs iirc 6 and 4 years previously?

I'm no great fan of MON but I'd rather he stayed on than Kenny getting the job.

weldoninhio

doncarlos wrote: »

The defense of O'Neill around here alright with thanks from the usual suspects. All memories of **** performances and lack of tactics erased and the clamour to keep the Celtic fans sweetheart in the Ireland role ensues .:rolleyes: What a load of bull.

I'm a Celtic fan. I think he should be gone now.

Cervantes2

I think Stephen Kenny should get the U21 job. Then maybe the senior job if he does well.

Roy Keane will be the next Ireland manager at the end of this campaign whatever happens.

TheCitizen

GavRedKing wrote: »

Under O'Neill and Trapattoni and Charlton, the performance is often forgotten about if the result is right, once you lose and draw games you should really be winning, the microscope goes firmly back onto the performance and under O'Neill, the tactics and or lack of anything other than kick and chase football, is pretty clear.

We dont have any real star players but we do enough to get ourselves into or close to a playoff position.

Lets call a spade, a spade here though, O'Neill is basically a footballing dinosaur and his teams have always had a certain way of playing and as I said, if the result is right, you moan a bit but accept it, once the results go away though, theres nowhere really to hide for O'Neill and he has to shoulder the majority of the blame if we dont make the playoffs after a good start to the group.

I see this term footballing dinosaur a lot. I don't always agree with the tactics, and there was no need for defensive tactics v Georgia. However Michael O'Neill comes in for a lot of praise around here, 'cos he's getting results as you outlined above. Is he a football dinosaur? Is Iceland's manager a football dinosaur? Their tactics don't seem a lot different to me. Ireland haven't applied themselves well enough recently is the main reason for poor results.

He plays Hoolahan sometimes and we play better football when that happens. Hoolahan isn't always available and we need a younger version or two of him. He has tried Brady in that role I think but Brady is best at left back.

GavRedKing wrote: »

Getting tot he Euros wasnt a success, the top 2 in the group go through and 3rd gets a playoff, at one stage Scotland had it wrapped up after they bate us away and drew with us at home, how they threw that away I'll never know, so I wont exactly say O'Neill bringing us to the Euros was a success story, it was as much to do with Scotland making a balls of the last few games.

You don't regard getting to the Euro's a success? What about when we got there and performed well enough to get out of the Group, was that a success in your view?

As for the qualification Group, Scotland made a balls of it but we had to take advantage and we did. We've made a balls of it recently in this Group in a similar fashion, will Wales take advantage of it or will we salvage 2nd spot? We'll see on October 7th

GavRedKing wrote: »

If we dont make the playoffs after the position we were in after 6 games, O'Neill and Keane should go, IMO.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Because of the salary MON is on, he needs to be qualifying us for tournaments to make it pay. The question then is who takes over. Anyway there's still two games left in this Group and maybe play offs to come.

The_Kew_Tour

Cervantes2 wrote: »

I think Stephen Kenny should get the U21 job. Then maybe the senior job if he does well.

Good call. Ya maybe better give a go, but Noel King is a big buddy of JD

weldoninhio

yabadabado wrote: »

O'Neill has a far superior cv than Kenny there is no comparison really and to suggest otherwise is stupid.
How much blame are you appointed to MON for Villa and Sunderland getting relegated even though he had left both clubs iirc 6 and 4 years previously?

I'm no great fan of MON but I'd rather he stayed on than Kenny getting the job.

There's the old attitude of "why try something new, can we not stick with what we've got".

If O'Neill was sacked today, he wouldn't work again in football management. He is a dinosaur of a bygone age, and much like Il Trap, seems happy to pick up maximum money for minimum effort.

doncarlos

yabadabado wrote: »

O'Neill has a far superior cv than Kenny there is no comparison really and to suggest otherwise is stupid.
How much blame are you appointed to MON for Villa and Sunderland getting relegated even though he had left both clubs iirc 6 and 4 years previously?

I'm no great fan of MON but I'd rather he stayed on than Kenny getting the job.

He does have a better CV that's not up for debate but O'Neills CV is seriously lacking. There are far better managers available that would cost a whole lot less. If we were to get a manager in at €500k that would instruct players to hoof the ball up the field like O'Neill does we could invest €500k a year in grassroots football

TheCitizen

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm a Celtic fan. I think he should be gone now.

With two games left and still a chance to finish 2nd? Don't be daft.

doncarlos

TheCitizen wrote: »

With two games left and still a chance to finish 2nd? Don't be daft.

Would you offer him another contact at the end of the campaign if we fail to qualify. If so, what have you seen to suggest things will improve under O'Neill?

weldoninhio

TheCitizen wrote: »

I see this term footballing dinosaur a lot. I don't always agree with the tactics, and there was no need for defensive tactics v Georgia. However Michael O'Neill comes in for a lot of praise around here, 'cos he's getting results as you outlined above. Is he a football dinosaur? Is Iceland's manager a football dinosaur? Their tactics don't seem a lot different to me. Ireland haven't applied themselves well enough recently is the main reason for poor results.

They both play the long ball out of defense. That is all they have in common with O'Neill.

They both have a system to how they play. Much like we had under Charlton. Pump the ball forward to the big fella, he tries to head it down for his strike partner or winger to get it into the channels for a cross and the midfield push up as quickly as possible to get on the end of the aforementioned cross or a second ball from it.

O'Neill's system seems to be pump it forward. And hope.

Big difference.

pjohnson

weldoninhio wrote: »

There's the old attitude of "why try something new, can we not stick with what we've got".

If O'Neill was sacked today, he wouldn't work again in football management. He is a dinosaur of a bygone age, and much like Il Trap, seems happy to pick up maximum money for minimum effort.

excellent

TheCitizen

weldoninhio wrote: »

They both play the long ball out of defense. That is all they have in common with O'Neill.

They both have a system to how they play. Much like we had under Charlton. Pump the ball forward to the big fella, he tries to head it down for his strike partner or winger to get it into the channels for a cross and the midfield push up as quickly as possible to get on the end of the aforementioned cross or a second ball from it.

O'Neill's system seems to be pump it forward. And hope.

Big difference.

The difference is in the application. Against Georgia we left Long isolated and didn't support him. MON's system is the same or similar to those others mentioned. It works if the players get up and support the play and pick up second phase ball. It's not attractive football, that's why some around here never liked MON, but the irony is some of them would be singing the praises of Michael O'Neill or the Iceland manager.

The_Kew_Tour

weldoninhio wrote: »

They both play the long ball out of defense. That is all they have in common with O'Neill.

They both have a system to how they play. Much like we had under Charlton. Pump the ball forward to the big fella, he tries to head it down for his strike partner or winger to get it into the channels for a cross and the midfield push up as quickly as possible to get on the end of the aforementioned cross or a second ball from it.

O'Neill's system seems to be pump it forward. And hope.

Big difference.

Agree

Charltons teams could play football too.

From 1974 World Cup to the 2006 World Ireland scored the goal with the most passes in the competition funny enough. Also played USSR off park in Euro 88 and were match for Holland in the same

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Agree

Charltons teams could play football too.

From 1974 World Cup to the 2006 World Ireland scored the goal with the most passes in the competition funny enough. Also played USSR off park in Euro 88 and were match for Holland in the same

More revisionism. There was plenty of times Jack Charlton got pelters from fair weather friends like you.

0-0 v Egypt, 0-0 v Leichtenstein. That's just two that comes to mind.

weldoninhio

TheCitizen wrote: »

The difference is in the application. Against Georgia we left Long isolated and didn't support him. MON's system is the same or similar to those others mentioned. It works if the players get up and support the play and pick up second phase ball. It's not attractive football, that's why some around here never liked MON, but the irony is some of them would be singing the praises of Michael O'Neill or the Iceland manager.

The ROI play absolutely nothing like those tactics. We launch it and hope. When Randolph gets the ball, everyone turns their backs and strolls towards midfield.

And if it is to do with "application" why do the usual suspects start game after game?? So it is either Martin O'Neills fault for not using the correct tactics, or his fault for consistently picking the same players that refuse to play to his tactics.

Michael O'Neills team has scored 16 goals with Conor Washington, Kyle Lafferty and John McGennis up front.

yabadabado

weldoninhio wrote: »

There's the old attitude of "why try something new, can we not stick with what we've got".

If O'Neill was sacked today, he wouldn't work again in football management. He is a dinosaur of a bygone age, and much like Il Trap, seems happy to pick up maximum money for minimum effort.

No problem trying something new but Kenny has done nothing to be even mentioned for the job.A few games in Europe and knocking around LoI isn't justification for getting him in imo.

MON would have no problem getting another job in management if he wanted after his stint finishes with us.This dinosaur stuff is pure crap you would swear there was only one way to play football.

TheCitizen

doncarlos wrote: »

Would you offer him another contact at the end of the campaign if we fail to qualify. If so, what have you seen to suggest things will improve under O'Neill?

It would depend on if we beat Wales and get to a play off and it depends really on who we get and how we perform in a play off. If we were paired with Italy for example I don't think you could sack an Irish manager for losing out on a play off to Italy, provided they performed well.

As I said before his salary is such that we probably need to be qualifying to make it pay. So even if we make the play offs but go out then, his position would be up for discussion.

I wouldn't sack him now like others are saying here, that would be daft.

He will be retained or sacked due to results, not style of play.

super_furry

Stephen Kenny wouldn't be given the time to succeed. Lost two or three games in a row and there'd be huge pressure on him because he didn't come from an English club.

Look at Michael O'Neill, one win in his first 18 games and he was given time to turn things around and build his own team. No way Kenny would get even have that time if he wasn't winning.

weldoninhio

yabadabado wrote: »

No problem trying something new but Kenny has done nothing to be even mentioned for the job.A few games in Europe and knocking around LoI isn't justification for getting him in imo.

MON would have no problem getting another job in management if he wanted after his stint finishes with us.This dinosaur stuff is pure crap you would swear there was only one way to play football.

It was just a suggestion, no one on here is on the selection panel.

There is no way that he'll get a job once he leave the Ireland job. Made a mess of Sunderland and screwed Villa by walking out 5 days before the season started. He's a like Alan Curbishley, the game has passed him by.

Trond

I hope we go for Houghton when Brighton inevitably fire him.

The_Kew_Tour

Kenny wont be given job so no need to worry

TheCitizen

weldoninhio wrote: »

The ROI play absolutely nothing like those tactics. We launch it and hope. When Randolph gets the ball, everyone turns their backs and strolls towards midfield.

And if it is to do with "application" why do the usual suspects start game after game?? So it is either Martin O'Neills fault for not using the correct tactics, or his fault for consistently picking the same players that refuse to play to his tactics.

Michael O'Neills team has scored 16 goals with Conor Washington, Kyle Lafferty and John McGennis up front.

Sorry what you're saying in this comment is crap. What you said in bold there happened a lot v Georgia and it shouldn't have, but it did not happen v Serbia or in a lot of other games. You're just making up stuff now.

TheCitizen

weldoninhio wrote: »

It was just a suggestion, no one on here is on the selection panel.

There is no way that he'll get a job once he leave the Ireland job. Made a mess of Sunderland and screwed Villa by walking out 5 days before the season started. He's a like Alan Curbishley, the game has passed him by.

Where were you last summer? Did you spend a year in Tibet or somewhere?

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Kenny wont be given job so no need to worry

If he does get it, he won't be counting on support from fair weather fanboys like you.

howiya

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sorry what you're saying in this comment is crap. What you said in bold there happened a lot v Georgia and it shouldn't have, but it did not happen v Serbia or in a lot of other games. You're just making up stuff now.

I'd like to see Randolph speed up his distribution of the ball where possible. He holds onto it far too long in a lot of instances

Trond

howiya wrote: »

I'd like to see Randolph speed up his distribution of the ball where possible. He holds onto it far too long in a lot of instances

Id like to see Westwood full stop. Clearly our best keeper.