Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2017

GavRedKing

irelandrover wrote: »

If Wales don't beat Georgia then our match against Moldova means nothing. It wont count for points in the second place table and We need to beat Wales no matter what happens.

Is that correct?

Ya, pretty much. If will lose and we draw we'll be on equal points, if we can pip them in Wales, we'll have a total of 13pts for the 2nd place table, currently we have 10pts for that table putting us in joint 6th with a GD of +1 which is worse than Sweden and Montenegro, thats IF we were 2nd in the group at the moment.

Main thing is though to win Friday and then we can worry about Wales.

irelandrover

TheCitizen wrote: »

No we'll need to get the points from both games. It doesn't matter as regards how much we beat Moldova by, any win at all in that will do, and then go to Cardiff for win or bust.

But the points from both games dont count in the 2nd place table. And if Wales draw then there on 15 points. If we beat then in Cardiff then we'll be on 16.

And we'll know the result of the Georgia Wales game before we kick off. It would make it easire to rest players later in the match if the result is unimportant.

BullBlackNova

Can anyone explain to me WHY the results against the bottom sides don't count for the play-off qualification?

My understanding was that it was a rule introduced when there was an uneven number of sides qualifying - one group had fewer teams, therefore it was only fair that it was balanced.

But now, all 9 groups have 6 teams in them, surely a simple ranking of 1-9 based on points accrued with the bottom side missing out is just as fair? I mean, sure some of the bottom sides might be easier than others, but some of the top sides are harder... Luck of the draw, surely?

Or have I missed something REALLY obvious here...?

Banjaxed82

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me WHY the results against the bottom sides don't count for the play-off qualification?

My understanding was that it was a rule introduced when there was an uneven number of sides qualifying - one group had fewer teams, therefore it was only fair that it was balanced.

But now, all 9 groups have 6 teams in them, surely a simple ranking of 1-9 based on points accrued with the bottom side missing out is just as fair? I mean, sure some of the bottom sides might be easier than others, but some of the top sides are harder... Luck of the draw, surely?

Or have I missed something REALLY obvious here...?

One group gets Gibraltar .i.e ridiculous scorelines Another group gets Moldova i.e less ridiculous scorelines.

Gibraltar group obviously has goal difference advantage = worst runner up advantage.

Banjaxed82

GavRedKing wrote: »

We've 10 points, which is 2 more than Bosnia and Wales who are in 2nd, if you take into consideration our results against the bottom seeds.

Bosnia and wales are playing for 6pts, giving them a max of 14.

Wales have Georgia away and us at home.

Bosnia have Belgium at home and Estonia away.

Neither side will pick up a maximum 6 points but it could well come down to us needing to win in Wales and given us 13 points and should put us out of the reach of Bosnia who I reckon will get 12 pts at most.

If Greece beat Cyprus (in Bosnia's group), then whatever happens against Belgium is irrelevant and we're fcked when it comes to pipping the runner up in that group (Greece)

BullBlackNova

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

One group gets Gibraltar .i.e ridiculous scorelines Another group gets Moldova i.e less ridiculous scorelines.

Gibraltar group obviously has goal difference advantage = worst runner up advantage.

Yeah, but as I said - surely that's just the luck of the draw?

I mean, one group gets Spain or Germany while others get Croatia, Wales or Romania as their "top" seed. Surely you're more likely to get points against the latter three than the former and, therefore, also have an unfair advantage/disadvantage.

ArmaniJeanss

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Yeah, but as I said - surely that's just the luck of the draw?

I mean, one group gets Spain or Germany while others get Croatia, Wales or Romania as their "top" seed. Surely you're more likely to get points against the latter three than the former and, therefore, also have an unfair advantage/disadvantage.

Maybe in the future they'll count results against all teams.
However in this case Gibraltar (and indeed Kosovo) were only added to the five teams groups some 4 months after the draw had been done and the rules already in place re not counting the games against the bottom placed teams. It would have been a bad idea to change the rule at this stage as it potentially leaves it open to a legal challenge down the line.

Also crucially at the time of the original draw it was declared some countries like Germany and England would be in 6 teams groups. This means they could never have got the later added on Gibraltar.

BullBlackNova

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Maybe in the future they'll count results against all teams.
However in this case Gibraltar (and indeed Kosovo) were only added to the five teams groups some 4 months after the draw had been done and the rules already in place re not counting the games against the bottom placed teams. It would have been a bad idea to change the rule at this stage as it potentially leaves it open to a legal challenge down the line.

Also crucially at the time of the original draw it was declared some countries like Germany and England would be in 6 teams groups. This means they could never have got the later added on Gibraltar.

That makes sense! I didn't realise it was so close to the deadline. It had been bothering me as, from what I could see, everyone was on an even footing even with the extra sides included!

Father Hernandez

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Maybe in the future they'll count results against all teams.
However in this case Gibraltar (and indeed Kosovo) were only added to the five teams groups some 4 months after the draw had been done and the rules already in place re not counting the games against the bottom placed teams. It would have been a bad idea to change the rule at this stage as it potentially leaves it open to a legal challenge down the line.

Also crucially at the time of the original draw it was declared some countries like Germany and England would be in 6 teams groups. This means they could never have got the later added on Gibraltar.

Presumably this is after we were shafted in the 2010 qualifiers when FIFA changed the seeding rules for the second round meaning we had to play France, Portugal, Russia or Greece?

ArmaniJeanss

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Presumably this is after we were shafted in the 2010 qualifiers when FIFA changed the seeding rules for the second round meaning we had to play France, Portugal, Russia or Greece?

We probably shouldn't reopen Oct/Nov '09 wounds again

If they've at least learned now to have clearly defined rules in advance, and stick to them, then it's some sort of progress.

weldoninhio

Dots1982 wrote: »

Anyone think we have Seamus Coleman’s broken leg more than anything else to blame?

I'd blame the farce of setup against Georgia. Seamus' broken leg didn't make us play like a hungover pub team.

The Talking Bread

OUT !!!!

Mr.Nice Guy

Our chances are certainly better with Bale out of the equation, although I think you'd still have to consider them favourites with home advantage and probably slightly better players overall; but he is a genuine world class talent and difference maker and the news will hopefully give us a lift.

AllGunsBlazing

Bale injured you say?

eamonpk

I think Wales will lose at least 2 pounds away to Georgia on Friday night

A bit more unlikely but Serbia may not do great away to Austria on Friday either

Harry Palmr

I watched the last Wales game I don't recall Bale being that decisive a presence to be honest. He isn't the rampaging ball carrier he once was.

Ferris_Bueller

Bale being ruled out is big. There have been a few times against teams ranked similar to us in the past, world class have players made the difference - Alaba, Lewandowski, Ibrahimovic. If you take Bale out of the equation, player for player we are stronger than Wales in my opinion. It will also be a boost for us psychologically and likewise will be a negative for the Welsh players and support, not to mention it will make their game with Georgia a tighter affair also.

I wouldn't make us favourites for the game, especially with the way we have been playing in 2017, but this has to be a big boost to our squad ahead of what is a massive weekend. I've been very pessimistic about our chances since drawing with Georgia but get a win against Moldova and Monday night could be a big night for Martin O'Neill and his squad.

Banjaxed82

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I watched the last Wales game I don't recall Bale being that decisive a presence to be honest. He isn't the rampaging ball carrier he once was.

Maybe. But he's player who can score/create a goal from nowhere. We don't have that player. Neither do Wales now.

pjohnson

Us having Hendrick back is a huge boost.

eire4

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Maybe. But he's player who can score/create a goal from nowhere. We don't have that player. Neither do Wales now.

There is no question Bale being out for Wales these last 2 games gives us a better chance. He is head and shoulders the best player on their team and while they still have a good team he is a genuine world class player something we do not have in our team currently and now for these 2 games at least neither do Wales.

Ferris_Bueller

Wales have not won without Bale since October 2013 when they bet Macedonia 1-0 at home.

Also if any of Davies, Williams, Ledley, Ramsey, Chester, King or Robson-Kanu pick up a booking on Friday night they will be suspended for our game. I think our players on bookings are Ward, Meyler, Christie, Whelan, Duffy & McGeady.

tayto lover

We haven't been playing well and I wouldn't look past Moldova at all.
We could well struggle to beat them.
We're no great shakes.

Banjaxed82

tayto lover wrote: »

We haven't been playing well and I wouldn't look past Moldova at all.
We could well struggle to beat them.
We're no great shakes.

I think we'll win convincingly. (performance not goals)

I think Maguire will start in place of Walters

I think Maguire will score

tayto lover

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I think we'll win convincingly. (performance not goals)

I think Maguire will start in place of Walters

I think Maguire will score

I hope you're right.

Rekop dog

Roy Keane saying Walters is as important to us as Bale is to Wales is probably the most depressing indictment of the state of Irish football right now.

Coillte_Bhoy

Rekop dog wrote: »

Roy Keane saying Walters is as important to us as Bale is to Wales is probably the most depressing indictment of the state of Irish football right now.

He didnt say that though

PhilipsR

I don't see any scenario where Maguire starts on Friday.

Ferris_Bueller

Just after reading up on all the permutations, mind boggling stuff. Even if we do manage to win both games we are relying on more than I realised in the other groups. The simplest seem to be at least one of the following, starting with the most likely (IMO):

Group F) Scotland to beat Slovakia in Hampden on Thursday. Then hope Scotland don't win away to Slovenia.
Group H) Cyprus to get a result at home to Greece, Belgium to get a result away to Bosnia.
Group E) Montenegro & Denmark to draw, then both teams not to win their last game (Poland v Mont, Denmark v Romania).
Group C) Northern Ireland to lose to both Germany & Norway by a combined total of 6 goals.

yabadabado

Rekop dog wrote: »

Roy Keane saying Walters is as important to us as Bale is to Wales is probably the most depressing indictment of the state of Irish football right now.

you might listen to that interview again, like a good lad.

yabadabado

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I think we'll win convincingly. (performance not goals)

I think Maguire will start in place of Walters

I think Maguire will score

Agree with the first part,Moldova are very poor and we should really be putting them away .Going for a 3-0.
I would be shocked if Maguire starts but I would like to see him get a run out,20-30 minutes.

TheCitizen

Rekop dog wrote: »

Roy Keane saying Walters is as important to us as Bale is to Wales is probably the most depressing indictment of the state of Irish football right now.

He mentioned Seamus Coleman as being as important to us and he is. We owe Wales a hiding for what happened with Seamus Coleman in Dublin.

Mantis Toboggan

Should be too good for Moldova but it's hard to see where the goals will come from, maguire has 2 in 10 games, o brien 2 in 9. Long no goal, Murphy has 6 this season and mcgoldrick has 4 but they wouldn't fill me with confidence. Hourihane has 5 from midfield.

Dots1982

Rekop dog wrote: »

Roy Keane saying Walters is as important to us as Bale is to Wales is probably the most depressing indictment of the state of Irish football right now.

Didn’t real say that though did he? He said Coleman and Walters were as important to us as Bale to wales which is very different to saying Walters alone is as important.

I think Coleman is a huge miss for Ireland, don’t think Walters has been much good for us in this campaign if I’m honest.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Corholio

Patww79 wrote: »

Maguire isn't getting off the bench.

Yep, thats what I think as well. O'Neill never takes many risks, even ones that make sense.

PTH2009

Lads looking at Moldovas results in this group and there not that bad. Biggest defeat was 4-0 away too Wales, they have 2 draws vs Georgia, held us for long periods at home last year before losing 3-1 and suffered late defeats Away to Austria (2-0, 75th and 90th min goals) and Home too Wales (2-0, 80th and 93rd min goals, very unlucky not too draw they game too). Serbia beat them 3-0 on both occasions they've played

We don't have the power to hammer teams and they will fancy there chances of a shock win. We need to go out and prove a point

yabadabado

Lads Why are Moldova suddenly getting talked up ?
They are poor and you have to go back 4 years to the last time they won a competitive game and that was against a team who had nothing to play for in the last game of the qualifiers.
We have had a brutal second half to this campaign but we are several levels above Moldova ,they are bottom 5 teams in UEFA.

Rekop dog

Northern Ireland might still be dragged into this worst 2nd place team battle. Sitting 2nd currently but Germany at home and Norway away is a tough final couple of matches. Norway obviously not what they were but 0 points still very possible from those games and goal difference could take a big hit too.

Banjaxed82

Rekop dog wrote: »

Northern Ireland might still be dragged into this worst 2nd place team battle. Sitting 2nd currently but Germany at home and Norway away is a tough final couple of matches. Norway obviously not what they were but 0 points still very possible from those games and goal difference could take a big hit too.

They're currently on +7 goal difference when you discount the matches against the bottom team in their group.

They have one of the best defences in qualifying, conceding only 2 goals.

Northern Ireland are getting a playoff place.

PTH2009

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

They're currently on +7 goal difference when you discount the matches against the bottom team in their group.

They have one of the best defences in qualifying, conceding only 2 goals.

Northern Ireland are getting a playoff place.

And if they get a kind draw there going too Russia I think and they can called 'the whole island of Ireland' for the summer but I reckon a few up there would not like that idea lol

I can see them drawing with Germany too

Ultimate Seduction

I see Wales are nailed on for qualification according to the bookies

There 6/5 to go to Russia, We're 9/2

Banjaxed82

PTH2009 wrote: »

And if they get a kind draw there going too Russia I think and they can called 'the whole island of Ireland' for the summer but I reckon a few up there would not like that idea lol

I can see them drawing with Germany too

Would be interesting to think if they hadn't drawn Germany as top seed.

ArmaniJeanss

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I see Wales are nailed on for qualification according to the bookies

There 6/5 to go to Russia, We're 9/2

Far from being 'nailed on', that price means they are considered more likely to not qualify than to qualify.

Ultimate Seduction

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Far from being 'nailed on', that price means they are considered more likely to not qualify than to qualify.

That price means they're far more likely to qualify than we are

Mezcita

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

That price means they're far more likely to qualify than we are

"Nailed on" means near dead cert. 1/1000 etc. That's not nailed on.

Of the two prices you gave it just means that the bookies have Wales priced at more likely to qualify than us.

Ultimate Seduction

Very pedantic!

Dots1982

Corholio wrote: »

Yep, thats what I think as well. O'Neill never takes many risks, even ones that make sense.

He played Brady in a very unfamiliar left back role versus Poland in a qualifier and stuck with him even after he costed us a goal. He became a major success there for us.

Picked Randolph over Westwood when given got injured in the win over Germany and he became a major success there.

Shane Duffy played his first competitive game for Ireland versus Italy in our crunch game to get out of the group.

He picked Kevin Long out of nowhere to play versus Austria in a home qualifier.

But unfortunately because he picked Glenn whelan more times than people were happy with he gets typecast as a risk adverse\Trap type manager.

yabadabado

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Very pedantic!

Far from pedantic .
Nailed on at 6/5 :rolleyes:

Banjaxed82

Dots1982 wrote: »

He played Brady in a very unfamiliar left back role versus Poland in a qualifier and stuck with him even after he costed us a goal. He became a major success there for us.

Picked Randolph over Westwood when given got injured in the win over Germany and he became a major success there.

Shane Duffy played his first competitive game for Ireland versus Italy in our crunch game to get out of the group.

He picked Kevin Long out of nowhere to play versus Austria in a home qualifier.

But unfortunately because he picked Glenn whelan more times than people were happy with he gets typecast as a risk adverse\Trap type manager.

Throw in the factor that we're in a case of genuine Last chance Saloon, we can't score goals, and Jonny Walters isn't playing, I wouldn't be one bit surprised (and expecting) either Hogan or Maguire to start.

Next 2 games are knock out football essentially.

elefant

yabadabado wrote: »

Far from pedantic .
Nailed on at 6/5 :rolleyes:

Load up lads, we're going to be rich!